Up 72 hours and counting...

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I did get a 20 minute nap tonight. I'm not manic, not depressed, not tired -- feel normal.

I'm wondering how much longer this is going to continue. I have MS too and the longer I'm up the worse my vision is becoming

Thanks for listening to me vent...

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Thinking of asking for Phenobarbital to help me sleep. I do not like mood stabilizers and their many side effects. My 4mg Klonopin allows me a 20 minute nap right now.

[waves]

this is really scary.

also 4mg of Klonopin is a lot - considering what it ISN'T doing for you.

my thought right now, for you ... would be along the lines of a hospitalization stay... for detox from klonopin.

usually the procedure would see you put on valium instead - valium is also a bit more sedating.

you would need to stay under supervision because of the potential withdrawal symptoms - in the hospital they can keep you in check and adjust dosages immediately if need be.

barbiturates are even scarier than benzo's. i wouldn't go that route.

i am sorry you are going through this. please consider going in.

((( hugs )))

~ waves ~

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waves,

Thanks for your thoughts; much appreciated! I, however, did sleep 6 hours last night

My family doctor too prescribed 30 Phenobarbital pills; one taken before bed if needed. My family doctor told me my way out my last appointment to call if I needed anything. He has come through a number of times for me. He also only wants me to make appointments every 6 months!

Thanks again waves...

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As I mentioned previously, I too have MS. Right now I'm not manic or have racing thoughts...not buying like crazy. I feel normal and good but not sleeping again.

My significant other thinks this time it's my MS affecting my brain not allowing me to sleep. I have to agree with him for I'm not manic. Thank goodness I feel normal and good; not tired in the least.

Years ago I had a hamster and for 3 days it ran in its wheel round the clock then he died. Maybe that's what is going on with me?? It would be a blessing for I'm still ambulatory, can hear and see...can still function cognitively (been greatly affected there).

Pray for me-ha. Pray too that I win the dinner and photo with President Obama

[waves]

Dear One,

I will pray for your brain/body to settle down. I believe you that you are not manic... yet. The not sleeping COMBINED WITH the feeling good and NOT TIRED could indicate mania winding up. Certainly different things can cause sleep deprivation. I don't know a lot about MS but what i know is that it causes lesions and it makes sense, depending where they are, it could affect sleep. But it isn't just insomnia.... your NEED for sleep is gone... you are not tired.

I really wish you would talk to your neuro at least, if not your pdoc too, about the non sleep. If i may be frank (well, i'm going to anyway ) it scares me that your mdoc just tossed some phenobarbital at you, knowing you take the Klonopin... he does know you take Klonopin, right?

So I am going to pray that you will come around with a change of heart and call at least your neuro, for starters, and let him know you are not sleeping. Plain old sleep deprivation is very unhealthy, whether or not it ends up inducing mania... which it still can... every additional day you do not sleep you are at more risk.

Thing is if he feels it is the MS he may want you to have an MRI or something to see what is going on. And i believe in any event it would be good to review your meds with him at this point.

So, please call your neuro at very least. (beg, beg, beg.)

... i am glad you got the 6 hours of sleep in there... in between!

Hey if you win the dinner and photo with Pres. Obama, i would like some of the table scraps (here kitty kitty, nom nom ) and a copy of the photo, LOL.

((( hugs ))) and snoozy vibes your way.

~ waves ~

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waves,

I came to this site to Edit my post talking about praying... Thanks for your grounded post.

Yes, my family doctor knows of my medical and prescription background. My neuro is at a MS Clinic and it is impossible to get in to see him sooner regardless the circumstances.

Yes, with MS you have lesions but as I have learned through personal experience and then too with recent articles/information lesion load or location makes 'no' difference in your MS symptoms.

I like my psych but he over medicates IMO and he would prefer me be on a mood stabilizer drug. At this point in time, I will not try that route again. The warning signs to go off the mood stabilizer drug are just like common, day-to-day MS symptoms.

I did sleep 4 hours early morning yesterday and hope to sleep some tonight. We just finished a great meal with 2 glasses of wine; a great family night. Anyway, I hope to sleep a bit later tonight...fingers crossed.

Thanks for your hopes with our dinner/picture with President Obama That would just make my year. Our son, in 5th grade I believe it was, won a one time award from President Clinton for his drawing and writing about the American flag. Maybe dealing with American presidents runs in the family

[waves]

Hi,

hey that is really cool about your son!

thanks for enlightening me as to some of the aspects of MS. must be really difficult to deal with that way. i wish you had better medical support.

your pdoc seems like he would do the opposite of what i had hoped. i was not hoping for more meds, but LESS, given the addition of the phenobarbital, i.e. that he might want to taper the Klonopin - at least to a smaller dose if not suspend it. A taper is not a detox, and is usually done outpatient, very gradually. But you would need a doc because tapering a potent benzo like Klonopin is next to impossible - the dose decrements required would be too small. The protocol usually involves a switch to a less potent benzo - typically diazepam (Valium) - for which you would need a script. Not sure but i think Valium has more sedating characteristics also... if so that would be useful and you might not even need the Pheno.

i was wondering if you drank alcohol and since you mention it i will add:

generally it is recommended that one consume NO ALCOHOL if taking barbiturates.

benzos and alcohol create cross tolerance.

alcohol and barbiturates can create cross tolerance (the degree depends on which barbiturate).

any combination of alcohol, barbiturates, and benzos produce additive CNS depression ... which be fatal. [CORRECTED to include benzos; alcohol had been listed twice instead]

2 glasses of wine are not a tremendous amount. With dinner slows absorption - lower blood level for a longer duration.

if you do not feel total abstinence is necessary, i would recommend at very least that if you have wine you do not take the Phenobarbital, and viceversa, if you are thinking of taking a Phenobarbital, skip the wine. Keep in mind though, that Phenobarbital has a mid-long half-life and a single dose will not clear your system completely for about a week. multiple consecutive doses will build up your blood level. so it really would be better to cut out the wine completely.

please read this: (RxList) Phenobarbital - Side Effects & Drug Interactions

i am relieved to know you were forthright with your mdoc. and you seem well informed in general, so, i do apologize if i have have seemed overbearing and/or am telling you things you already know... but maybe you didn't and i am concerned.

sigh. i wish there were better ways to help you than with these addictive drugs. but sometimes we are just caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

if i can be of any help, ask.

take care. i will keep you in my prayers dear.

((( hugs )))

~ waves ~

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Thanks waves for all the information, links, caring thoughts and prayers.

I'll be very careful with having a glass of wine and in the future will keep it to one glass and it only happens about once a month. I have yet to take Phenobarbital, but I will keep the information you gave me in mind.

FYI: I am addicted to Klonopin. I was prescribed a low dose in the beginning and over the many years built up a tolerance to the drug. With MS, most people become extremely nervous at night... I was prescribed this drug to help me sleep at night for MS too interferes with your sleeping patterns. Drugs like Ambien weren't around when I was prescribed Klonopin.

Hugs... 0357

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I slept 7 hours last night and that does not include the two hours sleep I got on the couch last evening. Feel wonderful this morning. It too is sunny, 30 degrees but is going to 56 here in Western PA. I just found two John Denver CDs and a Bryan Adam's CD. It's going to be a beautiful day

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