Ugh why did I just commit?

[Aspigander]

My mom is planning to go back to the boat from Monday to Friday. My dad will be in town. He'd like my help. My mom asked if I would come over. I said yes, with pretty much no thought.

George really seems to do better here, without all the other stuff that goes on at the house. He'll probably get wigged out going back. And we just got back to the apartment not too long ago, he gets settled back down and now we're going back again. Honestly, it's kind of more back and forth than I'd like, myself.

And now I'm stuck. My dad will be in town, but he does prefer help. If I pull out, knowing my dad needs someone there that would mean my mom not going (she asked if he wanted help and he said he did). So I've let myself become roped in. I would feel guilty if either my mom stayed home or my dad was left without help, which would be overwhelming to him.

Like I said, George notwithstanding it's really more back and forth than I really want to do, at least one of my parents, sometimes both, are in and out of town so much, with the boat and dog stuff, that it makes a lot of back and forth. And I'm really the only person that would stay at their house, no one would come the multiple times a day that the house dogs need to be let out. I would love to not have so much back and forth, I'd love to just stay in one place for a while, and a nice quiet place without all the barking.

They're the ones who chose a hectic lifestyle. When I was growing up, it was relatively peaceful. We had one dog while I was growing up. When he was nearing the end of his life, we got another, because we didn't want to be dogless. When the original dog passed, we got another dog to be a playmate to the new dog. The original dog was a boxer, the second dog was a schipperke, which is a small high energy breed, so we thought he really needed a playmate. At one point we wound up with four schipperkes. That wasn't too bad...sure it was four, and a fair amount of barking, but they were small, and lived as family pets.

Then they decided to get a German Shepherd puppy. Then another. They'd had a shepherd that died before I was born, and really have always liked the breed. Well then they found the breeder that they currently work with, and things kinda snowballed from there. Now their lives are hectic, between taking care of the dogs and everything else they have to do, it's just a really hectic environment. Most of their living room furniture is covered with stuff because my mom doesn't have the time to keep it picked up like she did before all the dogs. And remember that pic of the big pile of dog hair that RR reacted strongly to? All the dog hair on the floor is just one small representation of how cluttered the place is. Sometimes they don't have time to clean kennels as often as they really ought to be cleaned (uh, I have a bad sense of smell, and if I can smell the ammonia build up, those kennels needed to be cleaned yesterday). While there's always someone else that comes to feed kennel dogs, either my dad if he's home or someone else if he's not, I still have to go out there to take care of Nera. So I can't really avoid going out to the kennels. While they have other stuff besides the dogs, the dogs make up, I'd say, the majority of the hecticness. All the training, showing, barking, all they have to do with the dogs. And some of the dog stuff takes them out of town, or sometimes they want to go to the boat.

And the really sad part? They still have two schipperkes. From 1999-2003, they lived as much loved members of the family. Then when they started the breeding and showing, the schips became consigned to a kennel, as they have smaller bladders and my parents don't have enough time to let them out as often as they'd need to go (more than the shepherds need to). And to my knowledge, they don't get as much attention as the show/breeding dogs, even the ones in kennels, as the show/breeding dogs need the attention they can give. So for daily attention, to my knowledge it's just food and water and a pat on the head. That's really sad, since they spent their first several years as family pets. And now got shoved to the back burner.

I know if I didn't come over and take care of the dogs, they would be more compromised in that my mom couldn't go to the boat when she wants, one of them would have to stay home from all the shows, or going to the breeder's facility in IL to train, etc. And I know they wouldn't really like that. They'd rather be doing that stuff.

On one hand I really wish I could say "you chose this lifestyle, you made your bed, now sleep in it, I don't want to do all the back and forth." But I would feel bad if I did that because, even if they brought it upon themselves, I know they want to do stuff out of town and I'm really the only one that can be there to let the house dogs out as often as they need to go out. Even though my mom has told me it is okay to decline, because I know that their lives would be more compromised without me being there, I can't decline. I didn't sign on for that hecticness, but I feel umbilical corded into it. It's not that I wouldn't want to come take care of dogs sometimes, because I love dogs. But just the back and forth, with sometimes just two days notice before I'm wanted out there like this time (and one time my mom called me at 10:30pm the night before she wanted me to come over), is just more constant than I would like.

[Aspigander]

Okay, wondering if anyone can give me some advice on what I should do for next time.

Last night when my mom got back into town, she told me she's hoping to go back to the boat again in August and would I like to come over again. She said I didn't have to answer right then, but she'd like to know far enough in advance to be able to find someone else. Problem is, she's not likely to find someone who will let the house dogs out multiple times a day. And can't afford a pet sitter. I know this.

I asked her what she would do if I didn't come and she couldn't find anyone else to come out so many times a day (which is the most likely scenario, if I don't come no one else is likely to so many times a day). She said in that case she wouldn't go. But she said that shouldn't factor in on my decision.

She's told me it's okay if I don't want to before, just let her know with enough notice, and now she tells me the fact that she may not be able to go if I don't come shouldn't factor in my decision. And it would seem like that gives me an out, because it is more back and forth than I really like to do, but still I'm not sure if I can say no without feeling guilty especially if it means she doesn't get to go.

A few things factor into that, one being she does help me with stuff quite a bit, so I should help her. Another thing is sometimes she'll be upset, because she has to help me, and help a ton of other people, etc., and often she'll say when does she get to have time for herself. So if I decline to watch dogs, then I'm denying her time for herself. And then her friends who she would try to recruit, they'd all wonder why all of a sudden after all these years I just suddenly won't do it, and I'm worried they might think I'm a jerk. So all those factors combined, I'm worried I'll feel guilty if I decline and that stops her from being able to go. Even though she chose the lifestyle with all the dogs. Also the friend who goes to the boat with her might think I'm a jerk, because she would want to go too and my mom not going would mean her not going.

Anyone have any ideas? It is more back and forth than I prefer, and you may be wondering why I'm concerned since she did give me the out. I just don't know if I can take the out without guilt. Any advice?

[peglem]

My personal opinion is that you should just do it for your mom. This seems to be the one thing you can do in return for all she does for you and you sound like you really wouldn't be comfortable declining anyway.

I'm not so sure the "out" your mom offered you is so much your "out" as it is hers- so if you're unhappy with the experience she can say, "I told you that you didn't have to come." I guess it cuts both ways...but I think it will bother her if you don't come, even though she said it would be okay and you seem to be the one person she can really count on to help out this way. I know you have this cat problem, but this is your mom, afterall.

[Aspigander]

Yeah, on one hand you're probably right, but on the other, why should I be trapped in a lifestyle that I did not choose? It's more than the cat thing...it's more moving around than I'd like to do, and I feel like because they got themselves over their heads with the dogs I now have to pick up the pieces. Honestly I don't think either way is going to be too comfortable. If I don't do it, I won't be comfortable because I know what that likely means for her. If I do, well once again I'm just being sucked into a lifestyle I didn't sign on for.

Okay, asking you to explain a bit of NT communication for me...I asked her if she would resent me if I declined, and she said no. Would she say she wouldn't resent me if she actually would? If so, why would she say she wouldn't resent me if she actually would? (I know you don't know her personally, just wondering what your thoughts are on that one as an NT)

[peglem]

Would she say she wouldn't resent me if she actually would? If so, why would she say she wouldn't resent me if she actually would? (I know you don't know her personally, just wondering what your thoughts are on that one as an NT)

Yes, she might say that and not mean it. I'm having trouble explaining why...its sort of like she doesn't want to feel like she's issuing orders or ultimatums. She wants it to be your choice to come...but how can she not be disappointed if you choose not to? If I was your mom in this situation, here's what I think I'd feel if you didn't come:

My only daughter who has nothing better to do is refusing to help me out when I thought I could count on her.

I don't ask my kids to help me out often, but my feelings would really be hurt if I asked for their help and they turned me down just because they didn't feel like it. I'd understand if they had a reason why they couldn't do it, but if they could do it and just chose not to, I'd feel awful.

Disclaimer: I may be absolutely wrong about what your mom might think and feel.

[Aspigander]

My only daughter who has nothing better to do is refusing to help me out when I thought I could count on her.

Yeah, I think that's what I'm afraid of.

I don't ask my kids to help me out often, but my feelings would really be hurt if I asked for their help and they turned me down just because they didn't feel like it. I'd understand if they had a reason why they couldn't do it, but if they could do it and just chose not to, I'd feel awful.

Would you ask them to be ping pong balls though? Come to the house...get settled...go back home...get settled...come back to house and get settled...go back home and get settled... Would you feel awful if they said "you know Mom, with all due respect, being a ping pong ball is getting a little old" (okay, so that's blunt, but not sure how I could put that more kindly lol)?

ETA: As least blunt as I tried to make that, I imagine you might feel a little crappy if one of your kids told you they thought they were being asked to be ping pong balls. Am I correct?

[peglem]

Would you ask them to be ping pong balls though? Come to the house...get settled...go back home...get settled...come back to house and get settled...go back home and get settled... Would you feel awful if they said "you know Mom, with all due respect, being a ping pong ball is getting a little old" (okay, so that's blunt, but not sure how I could put that more kindly lol)?

I might ask them, if that's what I needed. By the same token I want them to feel free to ask me for help whenever they need it from me. Comes under the category of family helps family.

[Aspigander]

Okay, so (and I'm not trying to be snippy or upset, so please don't get me wrong here), I should lie down and be a doormat to a lifestyle I did not choose, after the first 18 or 19 years of my (and my parents') life was less chaotic because they didn't get in over their heads with dogs, because they then decided to take on so many dogs and now need me there to pick up the pieces?

I do get family helping family, to an extent, so please don't get me wrong. I really don't mind helping to an extent. It's just when my life becomes chaotic because they chose a chaotic life, where I'd really prefer less chaos...well, the more I think about it, the more anxious I get because I feel imprisoned in it.

I guess I just wish there was a solution that wouldn't cause me to be unnerved. If I don't go, I'll feel guilty for the reasons I and you have mentioned. If I do, then I'll continue to feel imprisoned chaos. Is there a way to have a solution that doesn't lead to bad feelings either way?

[Aspigander]

Wanted to add...

As for wanting them to feel free to ask you for help, I wonder if that's part of my problem. I don't feel totally free asking for help, I do it out of necessity, and she does help, but sometimes I get the feeling, sometimes a strong one, that she resents that I need so much help, so I don't really feel totally free asking for it even when I have to. I wonder if that's part of my problem...I wonder if I'm feeling imprisoned when I help her because I think she feels imprisoned while helping me.

Does that make any sense?

[peglem]

That does make sense to some extent...sounds like you both are feeling like you are locked into this dependence mode, where its not choosing to help or choosing to ask for help, but no choice except to help or ask for it.

I don't think anybody chooses their life as freely as you seem to present it. Its really not that black or white. Your parents (or is it mostly your mom?) took on the responsibility of the dogs(probably) partly out of choice, but partly because they felt obligated to do so by the breeders (or those people). Did you consciously choose your lifestyle? You prefer to stay home...but did that preference come because of conditions beyond your control? Would you choose the same thing if you were really free to do whatever you want, without the constraints that anxiety and VI have placed on you?

I'm not trying to minimize the importance of your feelings. You feel the way you feel and they undoubtedly have an impact on the choices you make. We all have times where we feel like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. You'll just have to make a decision you can live with, like it or not, fair or not.

[Aspigander]

I don't think anybody chooses their life as freely as you seem to present it. Its really not that black or white. Your parents (or is it mostly your mom?) took on the responsibility of the dogs(probably) partly out of choice, but partly because they felt obligated to do so by the breeders (or those people).

Well, I'm sure they didn't choose for me to have disabilities and have to be dependent...but the dog thing...well, they found this breeder on the internet, got introduced to Schutzhund, and they really liked it. I think it started out very much by choice -- I don't know if they knew that the breeder would ask them to take care of so many of her dogs. Well it used to be the breeder and her husband who ran the kennels and did the schutzhund training, then (and I'm sure the breeder didn't choose this part), the husband passed away leaving her a single parent, so she had to do all the dog stuff and all the kid stuff. So my parents (mainly my mom) got asked to help out with taking on some of the dogs, luckily the breeder does have a kennel manager, but a lot still gets put off on my mom, who doesn't have a kennel manager. At some point I wish my parents would say "enough, too many dogs here". I can see all the signs they're in over their heads but I don't think they see it. Sometimes they're so busy they don't get kennels cleaned as often as they really need to be. And while for the most part, dogs get vetted when need be, there's one dog who has a nasty ear infection that I'm concerned isn't getting the attention it should. This isn't one of the schipperkes I mentioned in my first post, a shepherd, but one that was a pet before they got into breeding, and not one that they would breed or show. So he's had this nasty ear for over a year now, she did say she vetted him once and was given meds for him (this was around the same time I was caring for Nera, originally). But the meds didn't seem to clear it up, at one point I mentioned his ear still seemed pretty bad, she said she took him back in and got more meds, but any time I check out that ear it looks bad and then he cowers when you go to pet him, because I'd just handled his ear which I'm sure HURTS. He doesn't like that ear messed with, again I'm sure because it's quite uncomfortable. Lord knows if one of the dogs that was for breeding or showing got an ear infection like that she'd be more aggressive in getting it taken care of, and it would never be allowed to go for more than a year. She does keep him in the house, so that pine shavings don't get in that ear in a kennel.

I do think things kind of snowballed for them when the breeder/trainer (the husband) passed, and maybe the current situation isn't total choice, but it started out very much by choice. And at some point, you know, I think they need to step back and say that when things have gotten so hectic that they can't get kennels cleaned soon enough and there's a huge ammonia buildup, or somebody's got an infected ear they can't keep on top of, that should be a clue for them that they're over their heads.

I think that's another one of my problems. I think this whole thing bothers me on many levels -- the dependence mode thing, feeling stuck, and then the whole thing with them not being able to keep on top of kennel cleaning like they should, and the ear thing, well I love animals...I am no 'animal rights activist', though I do believe they have their rights and those include being in clean living quarters and having infected ears promptly and efficiently cared for, not just when you get around to it, and am powerless to do anything about it. If it were me, I would have NEVER taken on so many animals that I chronically failed at making sure they lived in clean kennels and had healthy ears, and if I did get into that situation, I would hope that I would see things have gotten out of hand and would cut down my numbers to something I can manage. So part of it I think is feeling like I'm sort of sucked into being a party to a situation as far as care of the animals, or feeling that they're failing in some regards, that I'd never choose. Maybe they didn't choose to get there but I wish they'd choose to get out of it, know what I mean? I think that's what I mean by pick up the pieces...I struggle with all the ammonia in the kennels (which I detect despite my poor sense of smell), and either have to deal with it myself while caring for Nera, or hear about it when whoever services kennels comes in, and if it's bad for a person who is out there for a minute at a time, I have to wonder what it's like for the dogs who have to live in it 24/7, yet am powerless to do anything. And then I think about Lieben's ear often, and am powerless to do anything about that.

That got way longer than I'd intended. I think it's a locked in dependence mode thing like you'd mentioned, and feeling locked in a position where I feel like things should be better for the dogs but can't do anything about it. I think all of that is pretty taxing on me, anxiety-wise.

Did you consciously choose your lifestyle? You prefer to stay home...but did that preference come because of conditions beyond your control?

Can you clarify?

Would you choose the same thing if you were really free to do whatever you want, without the constraints that anxiety and VI have placed on you?

Well, probably not...if I didn't have the issues I'd probably be more independent, doing more my own thing and being just like most of my mom's friends who can't come out multiple times a day, meaning they have their own lives. Or heck, even if I did help, if I didn't have the VI, I'd be able to drive over and back, so I'd still have to deal with the aforementioned concerns about the consequences of them having taken on too much, but I wouldn't be stuck in it 24/7 if I could commute. Know what I mean?

[Aspigander]

Peg, I must ask you a question about something you said in an earlier post:

I'm not so sure the "out" your mom offered you is so much your "out" as it is hers- so if you're unhappy with the experience she can say, "I told you that you didn't have to come."

(I realize you can't know for sure what she's thinking when I ask this)
Can you explain this? This is rare for me, but I'm really at a loss for words as to why I'm confused by this. If she's afraid I'll have issues, why would she make it so that she can say "I told you that you didn't have to come.", when she wants me to come in the first place?

[peglem]

I'm a little uncomfortable here, speaking for your mom...my purpose is just to try to help you understand possibly what might be going on...but be aware that even if I'm right on target, your mom is not consciously planning it out or plotting it this way....its more like unspoken code. She isn't really saying it for the explicit purpose of laying the responsibility of it on your shoulders, or especially not because she thinks you're going to have a terrible time of it...
But, it would be difficult for her to say she'd be upset if you don't come...and she doesn't want to coerse (that has got to be spelled wrong) you into doing it...if she gives you a way out and you take it, it implies that you care more about your own comfort than her wants and needs. If she gives you a way out and you don't take it, you've freely accepted the assignment and its consequences because you chose it for yourself, and it is implied that you've done that because you care about her. I know, its not very plain, and it is a form, I suppose, of subtle manipulation...but not done maliciously or out of disrespect for you. Its something most nt's would pick up on, just because we have that read between the lines thing going on, without even realizing that we've added meaning that wasn't explicitly there.

I do understand your feelings about the dog situation at your parent's house. But I think it really boils down to you choosing between going or not going and dealing with the consequences of whatever you decide.

My point with the lifestyle choice thing was that our lives are usually shaped by external circumstances and the choices we make, its interactive...this is true for almost everybody. I can't think who it might not be true for, but wanted to leave myself an out!:D

[Aspigander]

if she gives you a way out and you take it, it implies that you care more about your own comfort than her wants and needs. If she gives you a way out and you don't take it, you've freely accepted the assignment and its consequences because you chose it for yourself, and it is implied that you've done that because you care about her. I know, its not very plain, and it is a form, I suppose, of subtle manipulation...but not done maliciously or out of disrespect for you. Its something most nt's would pick up on, just because we have that read between the lines thing going on, without even realizing that we've added meaning that wasn't explicitly there.

Hmmm...okay, my first impression: Seems like if this is why she said it the way she did, then she's set me up a no-win situation (even if she did not do so consciously). Take the out, stay in the nice quiet environment of my apartment, and look like a jerk. Or, thrust myself into a potentially high anxiety situation where I have no room to talk about said anxiety because I brought it upon myself in an attempt to be caring about her (I'm not sure that she takes my continued coming over despite her telling me it's okay not to as caring about her though, since sometimes she'll make comments that I make everything all about me and don't give a thought to others, so whenever I do try to put her wishes ahead of mine it seems to go totally unnoticed). So it kind of seems like a catch-22.

But I'm wondering -- does it seem like a catch-22 because anyone would see it as such, or does it seem that way because of my impaired ability to read between the lines?

[Aspigander]

*Sigh* Still undecided... My mom hasn't asked, she'll probably ask me when she NEEDS to know so she can figure out whether she needs to figure something else out or not, and it will catch me off guard, and I'll probably feel compelled to commit, even if against my better judgement.

It's not just the hectic-ness of the environment...I'd rather avoid that. But the whole dog situation...I know when you're breeding dogs, and having dogs live in kennels, things may not be exactly *ideal* for the dogs. Ideal would be dogs getting all the love and attention that they deserve which just can't happen like it should when they're kenneled. So I realize it may not be *ideal*. But the whole thing about the kennels not being cleaned as often as they should to the point my brother has said it was almost as bad as riot gas, and the dog with the infected ear not getting the obviously needed attention...it's hard stuff to wind up being a party to. Even if the situation is 'less than ideal', I think there are certain standards that should be met.

I've seen those animal cruelty shows on Animal Planet. Not all things they investigate have to do with starved and emaciated animals...I have seen them intervene in situations where the living conditions were not clean, and I've even seen a neglected ear infection or two being addressed. So I'm thinking it doesn't just fall short of my personal standards, I'm thinking that kind of thing probably falls short of legal standards as well. I know my mom did take the ear dog to the vet a couple times but obviously the ear needs more attention, I'm not even sure if my mom notices unless I point it out (I believe the only reason the dog was vetted the second time was that I kept reminding my mom of it, and I sometimes wonder if she may have said she took him back in so as to placate me). And it's been over a year. And I know they do clean kennels. But seriously, if in between it gets so bad that someone says it's almost as bad as riot gas, it's just too long in between. I've never experienced riot gas but my brother has and from what he described it doesn't sound good.

I really hate to say this about my parents, but honestly, if it weren't for the fact that I am dependent upon them, and need to make sure I don't perturb them too much, I would probably have to contact whoever investigates animal welfare concerns in the area and have them check it out and decide for themselves if the situation is sub-par.

Lately I've been feeling kinda bad about Nera (the dog in my avatar) being in the garage, which is the kennel area said to be almost as bad as riot gas. You know, I tried to do a good thing by her by intervening early in life to give her the chance at life she wouldn't have had otherwise, and now she has to live in a kennel that might not be getting cleaned as often as it should. And has to breathe the not-so-clean air when it doesn't get cleaned until Lord knows when. She does seem in good spirits, happy to get attention, etc., though there is some guilt on my part that because I intervened and didn't just leave her to her fate (euthanasia) when she was so sick as a young puppy, she's living in an environment that, well, she frankly deserves not to have to live in when it gets bad.

So I don't know. May just wind up doing it. Heck, maybe I should for Nera if for no other reason. I'm just not sure how healthy it is for me, since I get to feeling pretty bad (on a feeling level despite a lot of my emotions being on a thought level) about a situation I'm powerless to change, and a situation I'm uncomfortable being a party to.

We'll see what happens I suppose.