I'm pulling my hair out

[CathyT]

Hi everyone,
I haven't been here in a long time. My 17 year old son has ADD, I think. We've never had him tested. Just when I thought I couldn't take it anymore, and thought about going to a doctor, he would improve. So I chaulked it up to immaturity.
He's angry alot of the time. He hyperfocuses on things he likes, and then neglects the rest of his responsibilities.
Sometimes its hard for me to know if its ADD or just being a normal teenager.
I have ADD, and sometimes its really hard for me to keep track of his discipline. Plus DH doesn't really like to get involved, so its left up to me, and I fear I'm not doing the greatest job.
Here's my questions: I guess I'm having trouble figuring out if some of DS's behavior is "normal" or if its a bigger problem than I'm giving it credit for.
DS constantly forgets to do his jobs.......feed the cat and dog, do dishes one meal per weekend day, forgets where he put his car keys, forgets where he put his cell phone, forgets to tell me about band concerts, meetings at school, isn't motivated to complete alot of important tasks (apply to colleges and for scholarships, finish his Eagle Scout project etc.) But he is a very creative kid, who is well-known for his musical abilities and his film-making abilities at school.
We live 21 miles from his high school. When DH got a new car, we let DS use the old one when he has extracuricular activities at school. I used to punish him by not letting him use the car, but that only punishes me, since I have to drive him everywhere......using twice as much gas.
I've tried over and over and over to teach him ways to get around his forgetfulness, but he's not interested.
A counsellor told me I'm not consistent enough with the punishment for forgetting all these things, but even when I was, it didn't make any difference in him remembering them.
Sometimes I feel that he CAN'T remember things.
I'm getting so frustrated. He's always losing things, which causes problems and blow-ups for all of us. Its driving me crazy.
DS thinks I'm over-reacting when I get upset that he can't find his car keys, and then he's late for school. He does things like this constantly, and its driving me crazy.
I know alot of people say "just let him go, and he'll soon learn the consequences of his actions", but it affects the entire family.....or the animals go without food, or if he loses his car keys, then I'm afraid he'll speed to school once he finds them, etc.
Do you think these things are "normal" teenage things, or is it possible that he's really struggling because he's not capable of remembering things??? I'm getting to the point where its getting very depressing for me. Sometimes I think I'd like to run away from home, just to get a break. But I have my chickens to take care of, and can't leave them.
Thanks for your help.

[copperhead]

Sometimes you can find lifestyle solutions to help change your kids behavior. Buy a special rake for his keys and make sure he puts them there when he comes in the door. Buy that device that will make a loud noise when you can't find the keys. Buy a huge keychain thing so he won't lose his keys. I think you get the idea...

You can try to do those things, but at some point you think "there has to be a better way." So, that is when you will decide maybe this requires more than just some lifestyle changes which you implement.

You can find other ways of punishing him besides taking the car away. Maybe he has to do more chores, or maybe he has to be home earlier on the weekends, etc.

It sounds like you have been at this fork in the road before and should finally try that other route. Maybe if you take him for some treatment that way you will feel that the problem is being addressed NOT just by you and your ways of helping him to not forget stuff. Sometimes we reach our limits and we need to ask for help, or find other ways of dealing with things than what we have tried before.

What is the harm in going to a doctor to see how bad his condition is?

[Lara]

Hi Cathy,
Sometimes people really can't help it. I have a son a little older than yours who has huge organizational difficulties and lots of other things. He's actually diagnosed on autism spectrum but was diagnosed as a child with adhd a number of other things as well which all tend to overlap a bit these days.

This is from a Tourette Syndrome plus site. I know it says TS, but some of the links on this site are really excellent and a lot of people who have tics seem to have comorbid conditions such as ADHD or OCD for example and the author has addressed these conditions separately. I've found it extremely helpful over the years. It can take a while to navigate the site, but if you know what you're looking for, you can find some great direction and advice.

We used a lot of colour coding and weird things like coloured stick-on circles and other things as reminders. Colour coding is great for different subjects in school. Even older teens. can find this useful. Like... biology is all green folders. Math is all red folders... etc.. Use a diary or a noticeboard. Sometimes it helps to have them in the bedroom and the kitchen. Use coloured stickon notes. Even if there's nothing written on them, eventually the colour coding will work to remind him of a particular event... like remembering basketball shoes on a Wednesday. These are just minor examples, but they can help.

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/adhd_50tips.htm
FIFTY TIPS
The Management of Adult ADHD
Source: Edward M. Hallowell, M.D. and John J. Ratey, M.D., 1992

some things that are pointed out in these 50 tips that seem to stand out to me are...

"1. Be sure of the diagnosis. Make sure you're working with a professional who really understands ADD and has excluded related or similar conditions" and that's what I'd be thinking about first and foremost.


No 5 is "5. Realize what ADD is NOT, i.e., conflict with mother, etc."


No 12. "Remember that what you have is a neurological condition. It is genetically transmitted. It is caused by biology, by how your brain is wired. It is NOT a disease of the will, nor a moral failing. It is NOT caused by a weakness in character, nor by a failure to mature. It's cure is not to be found in the power of the will, nor in punishment, nor in sacrifice, nor in pain."


http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/links_edu.htm#Education%20Links%20-%20EDF
Education Links - EXECUTIVE DYSFUNCTION
Lots of links there.

[CathyT]

Thanks Copperhead and Lara for all your suggestions.
I think part of the problem is my ADD and other problems. I have such a rigid way of dealing with the chaos in my brain, and when people around me are very disorganized, we all sort of clash. I HAVE to be rigid and consistent, or my world falls apart very easily. If I didn't have ADD, I'm sure I could help my son deal with it better. I do the best I can.
One problem I'm running into is that my son doesn't like any suggestions about how to make his (and our) life easier.
For example.....with the car keys.....to me, it is Soooooooo simple to just put them in a dish that we have in the entranceway. This avoids the hassle of trying to find them in his messy room, when he's already late for school. Things like this seem soooooo easy to me. But he's not interested. He just wants to do it his way.........even when it causes everyone alot of uproar and chaos. He might agree to do something that will help for a couple days, then we're back to square one again.
And it really doesn't help when the spouse isn't on the same page about the approach.
I will check out the links you have posted. Thank you so much for your help!

[PMM]

Cathy

I think we may know one another from the old forum. My oldest with ADHD has a similar problem with remembering things. He has managed to get himself in a routine that may not work for me but it does for him. I've alsways kept a fairly rigid household just because the consistent routines work better for us. I'm sure it is much much harder with you having ADD yourself.

If he doesn't want to follow your suggestions tell him that's fine but there will be consequences for not doing his chores, etc. If the car isn't a good consequence then maybe bedtime or video games or whatever else floats his boat. I've always told my kid they have 3 rights in the house, to eat, to sleep and use the bathroom. What they eat and how they sleep are priviledges. I have stripped down bedrooms to the baire minium as a consequence and they then have to earn back their things.

I can't remember does he take any supplements for the ADD? His anger could be normal teenage hormones but it could also be that he's angry at himself much of the time for forgetting or whatever else he has trouble doing. There is also a condition called pyroluria that we found my son had on top of his ADHD. It's a B6 and zinc deficiency ( you can google it) it causes anxiety anger and a whole host of other things that symptom wise can cross with ADHD which is why I didn't treat him for it for a long time. My son is only taking the supplements for his ADHD. He still forgets plently of things but truthfully I never saw his memory get any better when he was taking the stimulants so I figured better something a bit more natural if the results were the same.

Hope this helps.

Pat

[CathyT]

Hi Pat,
Thanks for your help. I will look up the pyroluria. My son isn't taking anything right now. Is there an easy test for that condition?
I do take things away from him when he doesn't do the things he's supposed to. But then when I give them back to him, the same thing happens. I'm afraid his resolve is greater than mine! He was like that when he was little. If he misbehaved, I'd take things away......but he'd find other things to do, and never miss what I had taken away.
Boy, this parenting is hard! No wonder my hair is white!
Thanks for your suggestions.

[CathyT]

Hi again Pat,
I've been reading up on Pyroluria and have a few questions for you. I fear that it might be one of those curious conditions that only alternative medicine doctor's believe in. Have you found that to be a concern for you?
Of course I'm open to anything, and find that conventional docs are very closed about new ideas, but it looks like no scientific research has really been done on it.
Having fibromyalgia, and also thinking I had Lyme disease once, I have learned that not all labs are reputable and even though alot of "theories" out there make alot of sense, it doesn't mean they are real. I wonder if the labs that do pyrole levels ever find low levels in people, or if they ever find higher levels in people without symptoms?
I've also read that you need a doctor's guidance to keep from overdosing on the supplements..........but I doubt our doctor would even believe in the condition. So.....there's no reason why we can't try this on our own with reasonable intakes of the necessary vitamins and supplements. I'm wondering what brand of supplements your son takes, and what are the dosages?
I think I will try it also, since the list of symptoms they listed were so much ADD, etc. I'm sure lots of people have these symptoms, and they can be from a number of problems, but I'm very willing to try those supplements for awhile, and see if there's improvement.
Let me know what brand you use, and what dosages. Thanks for pointing me in this direction!

[PMM]

Cathy,

Truth is I never had my son tested. We just got to the point that he was so out of control that we were going to have to have him put on some kind of med for his anger and my thought was since his ADHD was being helped by supplements that it stood to reason that maybe his anger was supplement related too. I called the dr before I started him on the B6 and zinc. This dr has been on board with all the supplements over the course of years but even she was skeptical about the pyroluria.

All I know is that within three days of starting on 50mg of B6 and 25mg of Zinc that my son was a completely different kid. He was a freshman in HS and all his friends wanted to know what drugs he was taking. The change was that profound. I had to explain to him that the B6 wouldn't affect his friends the same way it did him because what he was experiencing was what they already had. He told me he could think about things that he couldn't do before because he was calmer. Even the stimming he has done since he was 9mos old went away. He got through finals without any problems. It was nothing shy of amazing. If he forgets to take them his symptoms come back in two to three days.

Double check this but I pretty sure you can take up to 100mg of B6 with no problem, I'm not sure about the limit on the zinc but I've got tow kids taking about 30-35mg a day between the cal/mag/zinc pill and the single zinc pill they take.

Pat

[PMM]

Cathy,

Do you want the entire list of supplements as well?

Pat

[CathyT]

Thanks Pat.
I'm sorry I didn't see your reply sooner. I think I'll just start him on the zinc and B6 first and see what happens. I'll take it too.
Do you go with any certain brand?

[PMM]

Lately I've started ordering from Puritan's Pride but before that I'd usually grab whatever store brand was 2 for 1 unless a name brand was a better deal. I did check all the mgs and such especially on the fish oil because the break down can be different so if I switched brands I tried to find one that was equivalent.

Keep me posted.

Pat

[CathyT]

Thanks Pat!