Depression and B12 deficiency

[MotherMoon]

Does depression, probably brought on or exacerbated by B12 deficiency, need to be treated separately from the B12 deficiency? Will correcting the B12 relieve the depression?

I am depressed, not like I have been in the passed but really down and stessed, etc. It got worse after my B12 shots started. It is easing some. I started a low dose of 5-htp right after Thanksgiving. It seems to have helped a good bit. Being tearful and feeling hopeless has disappeared but apathy still reigns (as does the want of sleep). Irritability is better but still around. I am going to research if I can take Euthero ginseng and 5-htp. I have taken the ginseng in the past with good results with stress relating tension.

[mrsdoubtfyre]

pay attention to folate. Low folate levels are also implicated in depression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15671130&dopt=Citation

J Psychopharmacol. 2005 Jan;19(1):59-65.Click here to read Links
Treatment of depression: time to consider folic acid and vitamin B12.

* Coppen A,
* Bolander-Gouaille C.

MRC Neuropsychiatric Research Laboratory, Epsom, Surrey, UK. acoppen@globalnet.co.uk

We review the findings in major depression of a low plasma and particularly red cell folate, but also of low vitamin B12 status. Both low folate and low vitamin B12 status have been found in studies of depressive patients, and an association between depression and low levels of the two vitamins is found in studies of the general population. Low plasma or serum folate has also been found in patients with recurrent mood disorders treated by lithium. A link between depression and low folate has similarly been found in patients with alcoholism. It is interesting to note that Hong Kong and Taiwan populations with traditional Chinese diets (rich in folate), including patients with major depression, have high serum folate concentrations. However, these countries have very low life time rates of major depression. Low folate levels are furthermore linked to a poor response to antidepressants, and treatment with folic acid is shown to improve response to antidepressants. A recent study also suggests that high vitamin B12 status may be associated with better treatment outcome. Folate and vitamin B12 are major determinants of one-carbon metabolism, in which S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) is formed. SAM donates methyl groups that are crucial for neurological function. Increased plasma homocysteine is a functional marker of both folate and vitamin B12 deficiency. Increased homocysteine levels are found in depressive patients. In a large population study from Norway increased plasma homocysteine was associated with increased risk of depression but not anxiety. There is now substantial evidence of a common decrease in serum/red blood cell folate, serum vitamin B12 and an increase in plasma homocysteine in depression. Furthermore, the MTHFR C677T polymorphism that impairs the homocysteine metabolism is shown to be overrepresented among depressive patients, which strengthens the association. On the basis of current data, we suggest that oral doses of both folic acid (800 microg daily) and vitamin B12 (1 mg daily) should be tried to improve treatment outcome in depression.

PMID: 15671130 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I would suggest using methylfolate (MetaFolin) which by passes the possibility of genetic errors of folate metabolism. Some people do not respond to regular folic acid.

[MotherMoon]

I am assuming the folic acid in my B complex and multi and not the methylfolate you mention. I will check into that.

[rose]

When longterm B12 deficiency is the culprit, the temporary worsening can seem permanent because of the sometimes longterm nature of repairs.

No repair is guaranteed, but it sounds likely that you are repairing.

I agree with the above. Make sure all nutrients are there for your body (and to work with the B12). Some nutrients will even be needed in larger quantities because they are drawn on more heavily during repairs.

I would avoid pharmacuticals unless really necessary. If you need it, you need it. But anything that interferes unnecessarily with the body's work to repair may hamper it.

rose

[copperhead]

I have severe nutritional deficiencies that can cause symptoms to come back four hours after my last meal. With long-standing deficiencies the symptoms can come back if I eat one meal a little later than normal or I am under more stress that day. My point is that if you feel worse after starting some supplements that can be a good sign because that is your body's way of saying we need more of that nutrient again. So you might consider carrying around the sublingual b12 tabs to take them when you think you may need a little boost.

I don't know if that explains why you feel bad, but it is important to listen to your body. It is important to pay attention to the timing of these symptoms throughout the day. My symptoms will change during the day, and sometimes it can be for any number of reasons, late meal, more stress than normal, or anything else going on.

To address the question should you treat the depression separately from the b12 deficiency: no, that would only complicate things for you. The b12 could take care of the depression and if it doesn't then you or your doctor can figure out what nutrient is missing.

When going through holistic treatment it is best not to complicate things by trying to deal with the little battles (the odd symptoms that may pop up and cause you concern) that happen during this process. I think it is best to keep track of these changes and try to recognize the progress that you are making. (You are feeling mentally better that so that is a sign of progress that you should not ignore. I would conclude that the b12 is working for you mentally, but you may need something else, perhaps or more of the b12 tabs throughout the day.)

You might keep track of the new symptoms (write down this stuff everyday) in order to tell your doctor (or for you) to pinpoint what OTHER nutrients you may be lacking. That is the other problem, you may be missing something else if you had a long-standing b12 deficiency.

The apathy sounds like a possible zinc deficiency which you can test yourself for with Zinc Status. If the 5htp helped you then that would indicate your b6 levels are good. Apathy might be from low b6 or low zinc. You should be taking b6 and folic acid with the b12 already. Even if you take a zinc supplement you could still have a zinc deficiency, which is why I highly recommend that people buy some zinc status; so you can test your zinc levels after you have supplemented to so if you have corrected that deficiency. A lot of women tend to store copper because of BC pills or other reasons. Copper and zinc balance each other.

And if your symptoms seem to stabilize at some point then you might try introducing a nutrient that you think you might need or want to try. Of course you can always try other nutrients whenever you want but without knowing exactly what symptoms you are experiencing (every day and when exactly) might make things more confusing for you. I find that writing down my symptoms every day, plus any changes in supplements I take (or changes in the timing of those supplements), and the amount of stress I have that day will make me focus on these changes so I may be more likely to see any patterns or changes over time. The more effort you put into keeping track of this stuff the more likely you are to finding the meaning of those little symptoms that seem to pop up during treatment.

I see those changes that your body is going through as feedback. That feedback is telling you that you are not finished yet, and may be point to the nutrients, or the amounts of the nutrients you already take, or something else entirely.

Taking the ginseng is up to you but it could complicate the picture. If you have fatigue, even mild, then that is another indication of a zinc deficiency. I think determining if you need zinc is more important than trying the ginseng. But I think trying ginseng is likely to just complicate things.

You should not need 5htp unless you have a known serotonin deficiency. Taking either tryptophan or 5htp can cause problems if you are not taking enough vitamin b6 and niacin and perhaps glutamine. So taking amino acids without proper medical supervison can also complicate things.

I strongly suggest your keep track of the supplements and the symptoms on a daily basis to help you sort this stuff out. You can make up your own form or buy a book that is made for this purpose. I use Medical Minder, which has space for symptoms and meals and meds and supplements. You can benefit if you keep track of this information.

[dorvad]

I suffer depression, but at least I think I know what is causing it.
My paralasys is now effecting my arms as well as my legs and that scares me, am seeing a phsycologist but she wants to go right back into my family history, but I keep telling her the condition is the problem not my family history.
I will have to get some counselling to enable me to cope better.
Thanks for listening