Avoiding meltdown in an inescapable situation?

[Aspigander]

I really wish my mom and I could spend any amount of time together without something awry. If we could spend time together, just once without *some* kind of problem, that would really be great. Granted, sometimes we do pretty good, but generally at least something happens that causes a rift, even if it's just minor. Today...not so minor.

We were on our way to my follow up neurology appointment. We got to talking about something that's kind of been a source of anxiety for me, I was hoping she might be able to help me resolve it. Well, she didn't want to talk about (probably because I was, well, anxious). Of course, once I start trying to talk about something, especially if it's causing anxiety, I just want to resolve it, thinking resolving it might get rid of the associated anxiety. Of course, it's kind of difficult to resolve anything when anxiety gets in the way of thinking rationally. And it tends to upset my mom, which in turn makes me more anxious. So it's a vicious cycle.

Finally, not only does she not want to talk about that, she doesn't want me to talk about anything. Which means I must be completely silent. If I am not completely silent, she will take me back to my apartment and I will miss my neuro appointment. Because I needed to know the results, I just tried to suppress. Of course, suppression seems hard to do around my mom, and I could just feel the anxiety building. I needed some way to deal with the anxiety.

Now, as I've mentioned in the past, sometimes I'll pace to deal with anxiety and avoid a meltdown. Of course, when you're strapped to a seat in a van, you really can't pace. So I just had to suppress suppress suppress suppress. I'm not exactly sure how I avoided meltdown. I think I was on the edge of one.

So I guess my question is, how can I come up with an anxiety coping/meltdown avoidance strategy when all I can do is sit there? Because I really had no strategy (accept suppress), I don't know if I could duplicate today's meltdown avoidance.

At one point (after I'd calmed down a bit and we were back on speaking terms), I tried to calmly explain that, well I don't remember exactly what I said but something like when I have to suppress like that and remain silent, that I risk going into meltdown. Her response was that she was near meltdown as well. Perhaps I shouldn't have said what I said about being at risk for meltdown?

[peglem]

Congratulations on an excellent suppression! Things to try:
1) Tapping (quietly in this case, so as not to further irritate mom).
2) "self talk" inside your head, you get to play your mom's side of the conversation, she says exactly what you want her to say and agrees with you completely.
3) Slow, rhythmic breathing.
4) Pinch yourself on that little webbed skin between your thumb and 1st finger-get some endorphins flowing.
5) Hum a GL song quietly to yourself
6) Remove your shoes and give yourself a foot rub (endorphins again)

Anything there look doable?

[roadracer]

Do you have a mp3 player you could carry with you in a pocket? So say when you feel like you did and needed to give your mom a little silence, you could listen to some GL to calm yourself?
I carry a mp3 player with me everywhere
also the problem you had with your mom, could it have been like one of these situations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfMBGB4kJFU
I know it is easy to see what the problem is in this show, but it is probably easy to do this and not realize YOU are doing it. Might not be the problem though

[roadracer]

also while watching that clip notice her facial expresions, I have watched it and a bunch of big bang clips to study facial expresions

[moose53]

((((((Lauren)))))),

I hate to say this; but, some of what you're Mom does sounds 'abusive' -- like telling you to not talk at all. On the other hand, I understand perfectly how frustrating it can be to be a Mother and to have difficulty communicating with my child. "Frustrating' doesn't even touch it sometimes.

My son's got a temper. I've very rarely seen it. Other people have seen it. His Father has seen it. I think he's gotten much better control now that he's older. Also, I think he's able to control the runaway rage much better (or easier, maybe) around me.

You know, Lauren, that's one of things that we humans have the most trouble with -- coping with anger, figuring out what to do with it or how to express it so that we don't blow up all our relationships and we don't cause physical or emotional damage

There's anger management programs. My son went through tons of those during and after prison (10 years for road rage). They were all pretty useless, according to him.

They don't teach you in school, unless you're studying to be a therapist :D. Your parents usually don't teach you because they don't have a clue themselves :D

Basically, what you have to teach yourself is to look at the whole picture -- what does anger get you?? how does it solve anything?? how does it fix anything?? what kind of damage does it do to relationships?? how many things get broken because of anger?? how many people get hurt or worse because of anger??

THEN, comes the hard part: you need to learn how your body and your brain and your senses react in different situations. Eventually, if you're honest with yourself, you'll be able to see patterns or maybe warning signs or at least be aware of when you're getting close to a situation that might be a trigger for you. THEN, you teach yourself techniques to calm yourself. There's library books. There's different body movement techniques. A lot of the Oriental movement techniques, like Tai Chi, teach you how to control the reaction that you allow your body to carry out.

A lot of us humans think of anger/rage as though it's uncontrollable -- like it's a fuse that gets lit "somehow" and once lit cannot be stopped. In reality, that's not true. Biofeedback. Breathing. Meditation. Movements, like Tai Chi and others. All of these teach you ways to calm yourself.

You know that old saying "You get more bees with honey than with vinger??"" It's true, if you're kind and caring and respectful when you're having a conversation with someone, eventually (maybe not right away), you will get back the same sort of response that you put out.

You know, you sound like you're starting to define a path forward for yourself. Your curiosity about the way that people interact, your curiosity about behaving in a more adult, more appropriate manner -- all of these are showing you maybe a direction that you could start walking to maybe develop a career for yourself or maybe define a new path for yourself. A path that's more gentle and respectful for everyone that you deal with -- your Mom, your "self", and others.

You and your Mom have, over time, learned a sort of "dance" -- a way of interacting with each other that may not be the best for either one of you. It might just be that one of your tasks to accomplish while you're here on this planet is to not only learn to be a calmer more gentle creature; but, also to guide your Mom toward becoming kinder and gentler.

When you start feeling that sort of panicky, wound-up feeling, can you pause and stop to think how much love is between you and your Mom?? Can you picture your Mom's hand in your hand and passing the love back and forth between you?? If you can picture that love being shared and passed back and forth between the two of you and picture you both holding each other's hands in love and respect and caring, then that mental image that you have in your head is a real good goal to start with. Try to keep that goal in mind while you start to walk your more gentle path.

I read a book a long time ago -- can't remember the name of it. It was a true story. The man was imprisoned for decades and decades. He used to be able to mentally make his body go somewhere else (other countries) so that he didn't have to endure the beatings and the swearing and the noises of the other prisoners. Our minds have incredible capabilities.

Some of the high schools have adult education courses. If you're near a bigger city, there might be adult education courses somewhere near you. Ask the researcher at your local library for the names of some places to go. You might do very well studying medication or yoga or breathing. Any one of these techniques will teach you how to calm yourself. Once you're calm, you can accomplish miracles.

BIG HUGS (and love).

Barb

PS: Oh, instead of saying that you "were near a meltdown", have you ever tried saying that "this is something that I'd really like to finish now"?? That calmer/gentler way of being -- it's also a language. If you speak in a less confrontational way, sometimes you get what you want. Maybe when you say you're to your Mom that "you're near a meltdown", maybe she hears that '"it's her fault" -- maybe that's why she pushes back with what she hears coming at her??!! More hugs.

[Aspigander]

Congratulations on an excellent suppression! Things to try:
1) Tapping (quietly in this case, so as not to further irritate mom).
2) "self talk" inside your head, you get to play your mom's side of the conversation, she says exactly what you want her to say and agrees with you completely.
3) Slow, rhythmic breathing.
4) Pinch yourself on that little webbed skin between your thumb and 1st finger-get some endorphins flowing.
5) Hum a GL song quietly to yourself
6) Remove your shoes and give yourself a foot rub (endorphins again)

Anything there look doable?

Hmm, I might be able to try some of those things. Though I'm OCD about not taking my shoes off in public (and before you say the van isn't public, in my mind anything outside of home constitutes public...yes I know, I'm weird). Problem with self talk is in these types of situations I wouldn't know what to have my mom say. I was kinda looking for advice. As for pinching, I'm really not one for self-injury and don't really want to start. The others are probably doable.

[Aspigander]

Do you have a mp3 player you could carry with you in a pocket? So say when you feel like you did and needed to give your mom a little silence, you could listen to some GL to calm yourself?
I carry a mp3 player with me everywhere
also the problem you had with your mom, could it have been like one of these situations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfMBGB4kJFU
I know it is easy to see what the problem is in this show, but it is probably easy to do this and not realize YOU are doing it. Might not be the problem though

LOL That clip probably sums it up pretty well.

No MP3 player here.

[peglem]

As for pinching, I'm really not one for self-injury and don't really want to start

Oh, no, not that hard! Maybe I should have said squeezing, instead of pinching. I do this when i have a headache- the endorphins help relieve pain as well. But, I don't hurt myself.

[Aspigander]

When you start feeling that sort of panicky, wound-up feeling, can you pause and stop to think how much love is between you and your Mom?? Can you picture your Mom's hand in your hand and passing the love back and forth between you?? If you can picture that love being shared and passed back and forth between the two of you and picture you both holding each other's hands in love and respect and caring, then that mental image that you have in your head is a real good goal to start with. Try to keep that goal in mind while you start to walk your more gentle path.

Hmm...a couple things that concern me a little there...

1. I'm not really touchy-feely. Holding hands with someone (my mom or anyone else) would really weird me out.
2. Most 'emotions' I have, love being one of them, come to me more as 'thoughts' than 'feelings'. I love my mom, but I think that more than feel it. Does that make sense? (for some reason though, anxiety is one of those emotions that is clearly felt)

[Aspigander]

Oh, no, not that hard! Maybe I should have said squeezing, instead of pinching. I do this when i have a headache- the endorphins help relieve pain as well. But, I don't hurt myself.

Ah, okay. I think I get it.

[roadracer]

LOL That clip probably sums it up pretty well.

No MP3 player here.

I thought that was what was causing the problem, you where talking non stop having a one sided conversation and your mom was like "wow, need some quiet time, quiet time". So the leason in the video is to not just talk away non stop, leave some time between things, enough time for others to process and give thoughts. Like if she didnt say anything after the first comment on the subject then she might not wanted to talk about it, were there any clues?
Like in the video, she was being silent, that was her telling him she was not interested in what he was saying, but he did not get the hints that she wanted him to be quiet, so he just kept talking away. She also gave hints threw facial expresions I am thinking?, not sure what to call the expresions, but he was not getting those signals also.

[Aspigander]

I thought that was what was causing the problem, you where talking non stop having a one sided conversation and your mom was like "wow, need some quiet time, quiet time".

I'm not sure the problem is so much talking non-stop and not letting her get a word in edgewise (though I can get that way), as much as when I get anxious about something I tend not to let the issue die. Okay, let me take the "check engine light" part of the clip (one thing he wouldn't let go) and use it to give you an example of what a conversation between myself and my mom might look like.

Me: "Mom, you're check engine light is on."
Mom: "I see that."
Me: "Shouldn't you check the engine?"
Mom: "No, we'll be all right."
Me: (starting to get a little anxious) "Are you sure?"
Mom: "I'm sure."
Me: "How do you know?"
Mom: (sounding a touch frustrated) "Lauren, I've been driving for a long time. It's okay."
Me: (getting more anxious in response to frustrated tone and lack of concern over the light) "What if it's not?"
Mom: "I don't do what ifs. You're pre." (as in pre-worrying)
Me: (getting more anxious, starting to get a frantic edge to voice) "But what about a plan B?"
Mom: (more frustrated) "I'll form a plan B if I need to. Please stop talking about it."
Me: (yet more anxious) "But Mom, something might go terribly wrong!"
Mom: "Might. Again, you're pre. You're borrowing trouble. Please stop."
Me: (really anxious) "I'm not pre. The check engine light is on! That means there's a problem, doesn't it?"
Mom: (near shouting) "Lauren! I've asked you twice now to stop! Now I'm getting ticked off!"
Me: (starting to hyperventilate) "But you don't seem concerned about this problem. How can I stop when you're not dealing with the problem?"
Mom: "Okay, stop talking."
Me: "Don't talk at all?"
Mom: "That's right."
Me: "How long?"
Mom: "I don't know. A long time."
Me: "I need some kind of timeline."
Mom: "I don't have one. Now stop talking or I'll take you back to your apartment and we won't go to the appointment."
Me: (forcing self into suppression, try to remain in suppression to avoid melting down. Finding it hard to maintain suppression)

Hmmm...you know, typing out that hypothetical conversation, I think I've learned something. We're both pretty reactive to our own emotions as well as each other's, her to anger/frustration and my anxiety and me to anxiety and her resulting frustration. On both our parts, there seems to be a build up until at least on my end, I only have the option to suppress or meltdown. It used to be there wasn't that build up and I'd go straight to meltdown, but now it seems there's a build up. I need to figure out how to be less reactive, and how to get myself calmed down before things get to the point of either suppressing or melting down. Ideally, before it even gets to a point where we're reacting to each other by getting more anxious or frustrated.

On the video, I didn't notice much change in her facial expressions. Seemed pretty flat and unchanging to me. Whether that's an aspie thing or a vision thing, or a combination thereof, I'm not sure. Her intonation was pretty flat -- bored sounding to me.

[moose53]

Hmm...a couple things that concern me a little there...

1. I'm not really touchy-feely. Holding hands with someone (my mom or anyone else) would really weird me out.
2. Most 'emotions' I have, love being one of them, come to me more as 'thoughts' than 'feelings'. I love my mom, but I think that more than feel it. Does that make sense? (for some reason though, anxiety is one of those emotions that is clearly felt)


Yeah, Lauren, I understand exactly what you mean by some things being like 'thoughts' and other things being like 'feelings'.

I wasn't actually suggesting that you hold your Mom's hand. I was more suggesting that you use that as an 'image in your head' to remind you of what the really important things are between you two. You both might argue or meltdown at some point; but, the love is ALWAYS-ALWAYS there.

So ... you have a different sense in your body when you're in the middle of anxiety. Does the feeling of anxiety build and build until it feels like it's going to pop?? Are you aware of it building or is it JUST THERE all of a sudden??

If you do have the sense of the anxiety building up, that could be a sort of another 'warning sign' or an 'informational sign' that you need to start with counting your breaths or deep breathing or picturing yourself laying on a beach somewhere pretty. If you do have a sense of piling anxiety on top of more anxiety until the pile of anxiety is ready to topple over, the sense of the piling up means you'll be able to learn techniques to balance that out.

Hugs.

Barb

[Aspigander]

So ... you have a different sense in your body when you're in the middle of anxiety. Does the feeling of anxiety build and build until it feels like it's going to pop?? Are you aware of it building or is it JUST THERE all of a sudden??

I think there's usually a build up that I can feel. Though sometimes it does feel like the anxiety hits full force, coming out of left field. I'm not sure if you saw my reply to Roadracer in my last post just above yours, but I had posted a hypothetical example of what a conversation between me and my mom might look like. As I was doing so I realized there's kind of a build up I think on both our parts.

It's much easier to analyze a conversation later and figure out where things start (even if I'm just analyzing a hypothetical situation), than to realize in the moment exactly where it starts I think. If I can get better at realizing in the moment when I'm just starting to get anxious, before it goes very far, I think I can start to implement some coping strategies. And I mean getting to where I can realize the exact second things start building. Because while there does tend to be a buildup, sometimes that buildup seems very fast and quickly gets to the point that it spirals downhill.

If I can do that I think I've won half the battle. The other problem that I have, is if there's a situation causing me anxiety, and I'm not actively trying to talk about/resolve the underlying situation, I feel like I'm neglecting the problem.

[Nikabee]

Ok, let me ask a question here... do you trust your mom, Lauren? Because, in the example, that seems to be the core issue. The anxiety coming from your lack of trust that she will handle things. I can relate to that feeling because I'm sort of a 'control freak' and I get anxious unless either #1: I'm taking care of it or #2: the other person convinces me that they will take care it in the 'right' way. (lol) Just curious if that's what's going on there.

As for your mom's reaction and asking you to stop talking - totally... I'm feeling a little sheepish to admit this, but I do it to Kaelen too. I love my son dearly and nothing will change that, but sometimes I just need him to STOP! (ARG!) Think about when you're feeling the anxiety building up before a meltdown or if there's a sensory overload happening... that's probably really close to how I feel when he's 'yammering' (what I call the non-stop one-sided conversations). I realize that he can't really control it for very long and he's not annoying me on purpose, but that doesn't make it any easier to tolerate. Usually, it bothers me most when I'm either already stressed out about something else, I'm trying to concentrate and focus on something, or if I'm really tired. I know that doesn't help you with your original question, but maybe it will help you understand your mom a little bit better. NT's have a hard time dealing with their frustration too. :)

RR ~ that was a great clip! I've never heard of the show before, but I love it! Especially the game he played *for* her! lol Kaelen will do the same thing too, only it's Pokemon battles. :D

[roadracer]

aspiG, are you sure this all is not just a social skills thing?
I know you are thinking your mom did things wrong, but could it be you are not processing the social part correct? I dont think it is as much of a anger/anxiety thing as it seem to be a social skills thing leading to anger/anxiety. In the video it was a lack of social skills that lead her to get mad at him and get kicked out of the car.
I might be wrong, but that is what it seems. I am always getting a reaction from people I did not expect or want and it leaves me thinking what did I do wrong socialy, so even if the person is mad at me, I dont blame it on there anger as much as I think 'what did I do wrong, socialy'
(okay so maybe I dont do that with my parents so much, just tend to get mad with them)

[roadracer]

RR ~ that was a great clip! I've never heard of the show before, but I love it! Especially the game he played *for* her! lol Kaelen will do the same thing too, only it's Pokemon battles. :D

a couple of my favorite clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0xgjUhEG3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibCck2iDOqA

[Aspigander]

Nikabee,

Sometimes I wonder if there is a trust issue. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it's that I inherently don't trust *her* or if I'm on such hyperalert about my blueprints that I don't trust that the blueprint won't go belly up, and am not comfortable if she can't assure me that it won't, or advise me on how to make sure my blueprint remains intact. Does that make any sense?

I realize that he can't really control it for very long and he's not annoying me on purpose, but that doesn't make it any easier to tolerate.

Do you think that might be what my mom means, when, after I've said I'm not trying to drive her nuts, she responds with: "I don't care that you're not trying to. You are." I know I do drive her nuts, but that kind of thing is painful to hear. I think she thinks that I can control things for an indefinite amount of time. Maybe not but sometimes I get that impression.

Roadracer,
I do think I have trouble processing social cues. Are you thinking that might be the root cause of the problem?

[Nikabee]

Do you think that might be what my mom means, when, after I've said I'm not trying to drive her nuts, she responds with: "I don't care that you're not trying to. You are." I know I do drive her nuts, but that kind of thing is painful to hear. I think she thinks that I can control things for an indefinite amount of time. Maybe not but sometimes I get that impression.

I think it might be and I'm sorry if that's hurtful. Facts are facts... a person is either annoyed or they aren't - whether it was intended to be annoying or not. It sort of like if someone accidently trips you and you fall and get hurt. That person didn't MEAN to hurt you - but the fact is, you're still hurt. Does that make sense?

I know I always feel badly after I say it, because I don't think Kaelen understands that he's bugging me at that time. And I usually know that he's not really able to control it. His mouth is just on 'auto-pilot.' Although, he has said at other times (crying) that he's sorry he 'stresses' me out so much. Then I feel like a piece of poo on the bottom of someone's shoe. I don't mean to hurt his feelings or to imply that I don't love him unconditionally, but sometimes I just need some quiet... I'm an imperfect human too.

This what I've tried to explain to him and maybe it will be of some help to you too: If I react badly (telling him to stop talking, for instance) because I'm stressed out, that's MY problem - not his. *I* have to learn to deal with my frustration better. I'm usually stressed out before he starts 'yammering', so it's not his behavior that is responsible for my reaction. *I* am responsible for what I do and say. Then I tell him that, if he'd like to help ME with MY problem, he can try to give me some space when I ask for it, but that it's not his responsibility to make me feel better. Or something like that. I haven't been able to stop asking him to 'quit it' yet (although I'm working on it), but I hope that after the fact, I explain to him that it's MY fault, not his.

So, what I'm hoping you'll take away from this is:
#1: I totally 'bomb' as a mommy sometimes! lol :D
#2: Your mom's not perfect either and she feels stress and frustration and irritation too.
#3: Those emotions are HERS... she owns them. She's responsible for them
#4: YOU own your own emotions and are responsible for those.
#5: If both of you can separate and take responsibility for your own feelings, then you will not only be able to spend more time together comfortably, but you might be able to help each other also. As long as your emotions are dependant on hers (or vice versa), you'll not be able to have a comfortable relationship or to help and support each other.

But most importantly, try to not read to much into what your mom says when she's emotional - no one is perfect. :D Only our love is perfect :D

[Aspigander]

It sort of like if someone accidently trips you and you fall and get hurt. That person didn't MEAN to hurt you - but the fact is, you're still hurt. Does that make sense?

It does, but intent goes a long way here. If someone accidentally trips me and I get hurt, I understand it is an accident. Yeah I got hurt, but it was not intended. Now if someone decides to pull a prank and trip me and I get hurt, I'd probably be a bit more irritated because they were being reckless at best. There's a difference between accidentally and purposely (or recklessly) causing an injury.

This what I've tried to explain to him and maybe it will be of some help to you too: If I react badly (telling him to stop talking, for instance) because I'm stressed out, that's MY problem - not his. *I* have to learn to deal with my frustration better. I'm usually stressed out before he starts 'yammering', so it's not his behavior that is responsible for my reaction. *I* am responsible for what I do and say. Then I tell him that, if he'd like to help ME with MY problem, he can try to give me some space when I ask for it, but that it's not his responsibility to make me feel better. Or something like that. I haven't been able to stop asking him to 'quit it' yet (although I'm working on it), but I hope that after the fact, I explain to him that it's MY fault, not his.

See, I don't ever remember her having that conversation with me. Pretty much it is implied that her emotions/reactions are 100% my fault. She's pretty much told me multiple times: "This is why we don't get along. Because you (whatever I happen to be doing)". I know I need to work on not being so reactive to her emotions/reactions. I have a lot of respect for you for going to Kaelen after the fact and explaining that how you reacted was your own responsibility and not his. Sometimes I do wish she would acknowledge that she is responsible for her own reactions. I hope I'm not implying that I think I'm faultless, I don't think that, but it is difficult when not only do you have to be responsible for your own behavior, but being told you're responsible for the other person's behavior. Does that make sense?

I wish we could have a better relationship. I think I have a pretty gentle and forgiving nature, at least I want to. But I don't think it comes out much. Something holds me back. You know my mentioning above that intent means a lot? If YOU accidentally tripped and hurt me, I don't think I'd be too perturbed, after all it was an accident. If my mom accidentally tripped and hurt me, for some reason I would automatically treat that with suspicion (one of those problems that is on my end that I need to work through).