Stereotypes, accepting others, and yourself

[roadracer]

I just finished watching a show on TLC called "Guess Who's Coming Over?". about a african american from Harlem who went to stay with a southern family who identified themselves as 'red necks' and were racist. It was a real eye opener to both families about racial stereotypes, and was the best show on this subject I have ever seen, the ending was just awesome. The next show was called "worlds smallest people" about these peoples struggles for acceptance.

So it has me thinking about things, being a walking breathing stereotype, and being treated as such my whole life has had its effects on me. A lifetime of this has me so that when I go out in public I do my best to hide any hint of any sort of disability, try to act as normal as possible, trying to not be wrongly judged by people. I go to great lengths sometimes to be 'normal'. Having people talk to like you are a kid, talking to you like they think you are dumb, being called a retard and names, having people think you are MR, always makes me feel bad, I could go on for days listing stereotypes and being treated bad by people because of my disabilities and how it feels. I never tell people my dxes because that is just more misunderstanding and stereotypes. At my first job I ever had I told the bosses about my dxes by giving them info I printed that I got online. It just lead to so many stereotypes, people who did not believe me, thought I was lying, everyone that worked there finding out about it, more stereotypes, more people who thought I was lying, cause I didn't fit there picture they had in there head of what they thought xyz was and looked like.

So I want to just act myself now, but I don't know what that is anymore. I don't know where MY normal is anymore in all the trying to act NT. So I always try to suppress everything that is not considered normal, but if I just try to act myself it is like taking steps backwards, people are just going to think more stereotypes and such and my family is going to think I am taking a nose dive backwards. Not really sure how to accept myself, act myself, and still move forward at the same time.

So I learned a lot from the shows I watched, and why people have stereotypes, hatred and why they think that way. I now what it is like to be different, but always try to understand why people treat me like that. I often wonder what it is like for the parents of kids on the spectrum, like what is it like for them going out in public with a kid on the spectrum. I remember being a kid at the store with my mother throwing awful meltdowns in the middle of the store with a bunch of people watching, although I don't know what it was like from a outside view, but I imagine my mom probably didn't feel so great and I know other people probably did not understand.

[Aspigander]

TLC has some pretty good and interesting shows.

So I want to just act myself now, but I don't know what that is anymore. I don't know where MY normal is anymore in all the trying to act NT. So I always try to suppress everything that is not considered normal, but if I just try to act myself it is like taking steps backwards, people are just going to think more stereotypes and such and my family is going to think I am taking a nose dive backwards. Not really sure how to accept myself, act myself, and still move forward at the same time.

Wish I had some advice there. The only disability I ever knew I had for the longest time was the visual impairment (well there was S&L but that's pretty secondary to the VI). I'm not sure I ever really tried to 'act' fully sighted. I mean, since I have my cane while out in public, everyone pretty much knows.

What really irks me is when people ASSUME that because I have that cane in my hand, I must be completely blind. I remember in a doctor's office once, it was just over a year ago, I had 'inherited' this doctor when mine left that office and stopped taking my insurance. Anyway I was having some weird issues with my legs (would intermittently get kind of numb), so I went in. She wanted to test my balance. She instructed me to stand with legs shoulder-width apart, put my hands straight out in front palms facing up, and close my eyes. I'm guessing the eyes closed part is so you don't have the aid of vision to orient your body so that helps a balance problem show. Well, as soon as she said to close my eyes, she paused and said: "Of course that probably doesn't matter". GRRRR!!

I could accept that kind of thing better from the general public, as a LOT of people assume white cane or guide dog means its user is totally blind. But this was a medical professional. She should have known that the term "legally blind" encompasses a 'spectrum' of visual impairments from a visual acuity of 20/200 to total blindness. I'm closer to 20/200. So that generalization on her part really wasn't appreciated.

Because I'd been using the cane since middle school, I can't say I ever tried to act non-VI. As for the aspie behaviors? Well, unfortunately, I'm sure most people just associated that with the VI (because that was the most obvious thing, the thing you know about when you see the cane in my hand), and that just creates more stereotypes for those with VI. And trust me there are enough of those.

I have to say, it must be very stressful to try to act NT. I'm just wondering, do you tend to wind up having more problems trying to act NT than you solve?

[peglem]

I often wonder what it is like for the parents of kids on the spectrum, like what is it like for them going out in public with a kid on the spectrum. I remember being a kid at the store with my mother throwing awful meltdowns in the middle of the store with a bunch of people watching, although I don't know what it was like from a outside view, but I imagine my mom probably didn't feel so great and I know other people probably did not understand.


For me, I'm so busy attending to my daughter during public meltdowns that I don't even notice how other people are acting- unless they get in the way (amazing how utterly clueless they can be sometimes) and then I'm just irritated. I sometimes ponder what it must look like to others, but really, I'm so immersed in "the life" its just kinda routine anymore. I don't blame my daughter, I know she hates it more than I do when that happens.

There have been some heartbreaking things, though. Allie loves little kids and generally they respond well to her. In the doctor's waiting room, she discovered that they are fascinated with her "windmill" dance. She'll perform for them, some try dancing with her. But all too often, parents draw their children away from her, in terror. I hope she doesn't notice. I understand that they just don't know what's going on and are trying to protect their own children. Still, it hurts. A few weeks ago, at McD's playland (our Tuesday outing) a mom made her small children wait until we were leaving to let her kids play...Allie saw them go to play while she was putting on her shoes. She really wanted to go back and play...but, i didn't figure out what happened until we were already in the car.

Honestly, I'm not embarrassed by, or ashamed of my daughter. Our limited outings are for her comfort and enjoyment. I do my best not to inconvenience others, but its all about her when we're out.

[peglem]

Upon further reflection, I wanted to add:

There are also wonderful, understanding people out there- The staff at the stores we go to regularly treat Allie like royalty. They are patient and kind and really notice when we miss our regular visits.

Many times, well meaning (and that's what makes me feel kindly towards them) people give us advice on what to do about autism. Generally, they have no real experience, but at least they are trying to be helpful instead of judgemental.

[roadracer]

I'm so immersed in "the life" its just kinda routine anymore.
thats interesting, thinking about it my mom does do things for me and it seems she is just so used to doing them that she does not give it much thought. Like for instance going out to eat and the process of using the menu and her ordering for me. When I think about it there are actually so many little things she does to help me out that we really don't think about anymore because it is routine.

[Aspigander]

Like for instance going out to eat and the process of using the menu and her ordering for me.

Ah, menus are interesting for me too. Usually if we eat somewhere it's at a Chinese buffet, so no menu, but when there is a menu involved I'll often need assistance with it (generally because of the small print).

Just out of curiosity, how does the process of using the menu work for you?

[roadracer]

Many times, well meaning (and that's what makes me feel kindly towards them) people give us advice on what to do about autism. Generally, they have no real experience, but at least they are trying to be helpful instead of judgemental.

Those people that give advice, do you tell them she is autistic, or do they just know?

During the public meltdown I think my mother might have been more embarrassed then anything just that I was making a scene.

Just out of curiosity, how does the process of using the menu work for you?
I look over the menu and find what I want to drink and eat, hand the menu to mom, point to what I want, she reads it back to me to confirm it, then she orders it, if I want to know what something is I usually point with my palm up, and if she knows what it is she tells me, not complicated, BUT she also knows pretty much all the foods I like and how I like them cooked. So like if there is a salad she knows I like ranch dressing, so no need for me to point that out.
Now here is the big problem, ordering myself when I am alone, like I know McDonalds has a picture menu for people with my type of problems (but I really don't like there food, yuk), and some convenience stores have those touch screen ordering menus that make things a breeze. I really like subway, but trying to order there myself is not to possible. One of my favorites is the local grocery store checkout, "paper or plastic", if I don't answer you the first 4 times put the damn stuff in a bag already, don't stand there and stare at me, lol. (the last time my face turned ten shades of red and the lady apologized to me) then you factor in that I cant figure out money to well and am giving the person more bills then needed... I usually just try to avoid everything above
Now I got this way off topic already

[peglem]

Those people that give advice, do you tell them she is autistic, or do they just know?


They just know- Allie is not subletly autistic. So, they do know enough to recognize it. I think most people just think she's MR so they keep their mouths shut (and pull their children away in terror). I guess they don't have any advice on fixing MR.

Speaking of MR, I completely agree with your opinion on the accuracy of IQ scores. They tested my nonverbal, noncompliant, unmotivated to please others little girl and came up with a score slightly higher than a rock's IQ. I know that's not accurate.

[Aspigander]

Roadracer,
That sounds like a pretty good system with the menu.

I'm wondering, for the store thing, if you could make out a card that gives your bag preference? That way, when they ask, you jjust whip out the card and hand it to them? Just something I thought of.

Peglem,
I think most people just think she's MR so they keep their mouths shut (and pull their children away in terror).
(Bold emphasis mine)

Okay, that sounds distressing. I remember in high school, there was a class for those who, many of them, probably were dxed as MR (whether that's accurate or not, of course, may be questionable). I knew some of them, and by no means should one feel terrorized. I'll admit, it could be difficult sometimes, because often they communicated on a very elementary level and I had a difficult time trying to meet them at their level (because I was a teen/young adult and tended to communicate like one), but I tried rather than pull myself away in terror. That's just...sad. Even if they are accurately MR, it's not their fault and a little understanding would be nice, you know?

[roadracer]

Okay, that sounds distressing. I remember in high school, there was a class for those who, many of them, probably were dxed as MR (whether that's accurate or not, of course, may be questionable). I knew some of them, and by no means should one feel terrorized. I'll admit, it could be difficult sometimes, because often they communicated on a very elementary level and I had a difficult time trying to meet them at their level (because I was a teen/young adult and tended to communicate like one), but I tried rather than pull myself away in terror. That's just...sad. Even if they are accurately MR, it's not their fault and a little understanding would be nice, you know?

This gives me a slight example of what I was talking about in my original post. I don't mean to be offensive but I got to ask a couple questions, and the only reason I would bother asking is because of the subject of the thread.
First,
many of them, probably were dxed as MR
so wondering, what makes you think they where MR? was it because of the class they were in? was it because of the way they acted or looked? or was it because they or someone told you this? Just want to get a idea why you come to the conclusion they are MR
I'll admit, it could be difficult sometimes, because often they communicated on a very elementary level and I had a difficult time trying to meet them at their level (because I was a teen/young adult and tended to communicate like one), but I tried rather than pull myself away in terror.
did the way they communicate make you think they were MR? so you tried to communicate with these people, but because you communicate like a 'adult' you gave up? or did you become friends with any of them?

since the way you talk about this class I am getting the feeling you just thought it was odd (the way they communicate and act) so you didn't try to make friends with anyone there even that they didn't terrorize you and you felt somewhat comfortable. Now there was nothing wrong with what you said at all, and most people would probably think that way, but when telling someone else that leads to the stereotypes, etc. (at least thats what I think anyway) I really dont take any offense, just wanted to make that a example :)

[roadracer]

They just know- Allie is not subletly autistic. So, they do know enough to recognize it. I think most people just think she's MR so they keep their mouths shut (and pull their children away in terror). I guess they don't have any advice on fixing MR.

Speaking of MR, I completely agree with your opinion on the accuracy of IQ scores. They tested my nonverbal, noncompliant, unmotivated to please others little girl and came up with a score slightly higher than a rock's IQ. I know that's not accurate.

Okay,
I understand, I am probably the subletly type. I do have some tics and probably some odd movements, and people know something is up when they try to talk to me, thats usually when I think they think I am MR, as they usually talk to me like I am a kid, you know, in a way I could understand, lol. I also get a lot of people who just think I am on drugs or something, I have actually had many people ask me if I am on drugs, dont know what it is that makes people think I am all druged up :mad:, but I get the people who talk to me like a kid more then anything, sure they dont mean wrong and are just being nice, but it really gets on my nerves. Although when you dont factor speech into it, I am not really sure what tells people I am different, Mili told me it could be the lack of the non verbal language that NTs use to communicate without saying a word, could be, but I am really not sure though

[Aspigander]

Well, let me give some background as to what led me in close proximity to these students. There were like two classes that dealt with employment readiness, or going off campus on a 'job site'. One was special ed and one general ed. They put me in the special ed one first. That was where these students were.

so wondering, what makes you think they where MR? was it because of the class they were in? was it because of the way they acted or looked? or was it because they or someone told you this? Just want to get a idea why you come to the conclusion they are MR

I'm not sure that all of them are what might be termed MR, or any really, but on days when we stayed on campus, to walk into the room you would think you were walking into an elementary classroom. The teacher and aides pretty much talked to them like elementary students. They started that with me (except for one of the aides who already knew me) when I first entered the class but they learned in a big hurry I think that I communicate at my age level. When we stayed in the building, they usually had craft supplies pulled out, and the projects were very elementary. So I guess that's how I got that conclusion. Really, the only student I was really told anything about, she had a permanent aide assigned to her who pretty much knew her her whole life, and she said this student had been involved in a pretty nasty auto accident around age five, was severely brain damaged, spent a lot of time in a coma, and never really developed beyond that point. So I'm not sure if you would term that MR as much as brain damaged, actually. I guess most of my conclusions were pretty much that -- conclusions.

did the way they communicate make you think they were MR? so you tried to communicate with these people, but because you communicate like a 'adult' you gave up? or did you become friends with any of them?

Well, first, I'm not exactly the 'make friends' type of person myself -- I'm not 'unfriendly', at least I don't think, but I probably don't hold most people's definition of making friends. I am, and always have been, at least, the more 'passive' one rather than active. I just wanted to say that, because I'm not quite sure I would meet your definition of 'making friends' with these students or anyone else, really.

That said, during the days we stayed in the building (about once a week), I would mostly hang to myself (but I would do that anyway, even in my general ed classes), and pretty much just speak if spoken to (again, my usual for anyone). However, some days there would only be just a few of us in, like one time there was just me and one other student. I was going to work on homework for another class, but the other student really needed someone to engage her, so the teacher got out a board game, and it was a little interesting trying to play it with her. Because she was playing on an elementary level and I was trying to play on more of an adult level. I did try to go to her level, though for me that was difficult.

Okay here's an analogy. Let's say you were trying to talk to someone who spoke a foreign language, say, Spanish. Let's say they knew next to zero English. Let's say you knew *some* Spanish but not much more than they did English. So you would try to go to their level (use what Spanish you knew), but still there was a huge communication issue because you knew very little Spanish and they knew even less English.

That's kind of like what it was like. I tried to do the best I could, because I didn't want to just leave her hanging, but it was difficult. Does that make sense?

[roadracer]

aspigander
I think you might be missing my point, so I will tell a little story

There was a kid in high school, 12th grade to be exact, this kid had trouble with very basic math concepts, figuring out money, figuring out times, like figuring out what time it would be 4 hours a 6 minutes from now, had trouble with basic adding, subtracting. You would find this kid in a sped class working on this stuff with the sped teacher. Walking into the class, the teacher had a big analog clock, trying to teach these 12th graders how to calculate time, very "elementary school" like you said, heck you could say "kindergarden" if you wanted to. The teacher talked to these kids like they were little kids, you know, like you described.
A person who didn't know these kids would probably look and say, wow, these kids a MR, this must be the MR classroom, and never give it anymore thought.


Well the kid above was ME, yep, I was in that class, and I still have the troubles listed above,(although I am somewhat better with them then I was then) it was a special class for the kids with the worst math issues, and the sped teacher was just so used to talking like that to kids I think she just did it naturally, it got on my nerves, but I was so used to it.
So I really hope my posts have some amount of intelligence to them, I really hope they all do not come across grade schoolish.

My point is that what you are saying is how stereotypes are formed (at least thats my opinion). I think it is just natural in everyone to think like that. "Dont judge a book by its cover"? not sure if that is the appropriate saying for this, even that you did not think you were judging the other students it sounds like you were without giving it much thought. If I am wrong let me know, as this is just what I get from your replies, does not mean that I actually have a clue, lol.

[roadracer]

Okay here's an analogy. Let's say you were trying to talk to someone who spoke a foreign language, say, Spanish. Let's say they knew next to zero English. Let's say you knew *some* Spanish but not much more than they did English. So you would try to go to their level (use what Spanish you knew), but still there was a huge communication issue because you knew very little Spanish and they knew even less English.
Yep, that is me, everyday, my whole life. I think that might be one of the best analogies ever to describe autism. (Mili's was great to)

[Aspigander]

Ahhh, okay, I think I get your point. And your posts come across as VERY intelligent. :)

Actually, today, right on this forum, I got myself a crash course in stereotypes and making judgements. I don't think I really realized it until I was actually sitting clear across the room from my computer. It was a combination of something Peglem said in her IEP thread and something she said, I believe, in my flexibility thread. In the IEP thread she said something about when Allie was five or six (I thought somehow she was around five or six). I realized she must have been a little older than I thought. Then in the flexibility thread she said that her RDI consultant specializes in teens and adults. I'm thinking: "Wait a second, Allie isn't a teenager, is she?" I remember another thread, after Mili's family and Peglem's family met, she said she was walking Allie around the restaurant, Allie's hand in hers, and I'm imagining Mili walking around with a little girl holding her hand. So in the IEP thread today, I asked Peglem how old Allie was. Answer? 14 1/2.

So at one point I'm sitting clear across the room from my computer, I get to thinking about this thread (your stereotypes thread, this one right here), and then I get to thinking about how I had come to the conclusion that Allie was a lot younger. I had a bit of a lightbulb moment there, realizing I had just jumped to conclusions. OOPS!

My point is that what you are saying is how stereotypes are formed (at least thats my opinion). I think it is just natural in everyone to think like that. "Dont judge a book by its cover"? not sure if that is the appropriate saying for this, even that you did not think you were judging the other students it sounds like you were without giving it much thought.

Yeah, I think you're right, now that I think about it.