My analogy of Autistic Spectrum Disorder

[milivica]

I thought of this analogy on another thread, so thought I'd post it. Hope it helps clarify what goes on in the heads of folks with autism.

Ok, you know what asthma does to a person's lungs and ability to breathe...well an ASD brain has what I will call neurological asthma, there are only a few neurological pathways that are open wide enough to be of use. The tiny pathways can't interconnect since they are closed (causing poor 'networking' between different areas of your brain). ASD's have limited neurological options from which we can make decisions about actions, and that has nothing to do with us as a people, it's just our neurology. We have the same brain as an nt, with restricted neurological flow throughout all areas not involving concrete thought/memorization. Just like someone with or without asthma have the same lungs. The idea of Autistic SPECTRUM, well look at it like this, the spectrum comes in due to varying degrees of 'neurological asthma' just like people with asthma can have mild or severe asthma, and everything in between.

Make sense?

With such limited amounts of neural pathways to utilize, and such restricted networking in our brains, blaming ourselves for our autistic related actions is as harsh as blaming someone with epilepsy blaming themselves for not controlling their synapse firing, so they had a seizure and broke the lamp.

Ok, how'd everyone feel about that analogy? Anyone feel like "Wow, now I get it"

So, ABA then, teaching the autistic to utilize the pathways they have for everything they need to do in life, even if they are not the proper pathways for the task which is why ABA teaches the concrete.

RDI on the other hand, opens the closed pathways just like an inhaler opens the closed lungs. So many many many neural pathways can think/process information, all the different parts of the brain can network with one another and the options in life are no longer limited or restricted.

Comments?

[roadracer]

Ok, you know what asthma does to a person's lungs and ability to breathe...well an ASD brain has what I will call neurological asthma, there are only a few neurological pathways that are open wide enough to be of use.
I am confused, I have asthma, I had a asthma attack today after the bike race I did, got threw it fine, so yeah I understand asthma. I also understand what it is like to be autistic. I understand your thinking of the analogy of the two, but with my understanding of them both, I am not really sure about your understanding of asthma. Just wondering, do you have asthma?

how many forms of asthma do I have, lol :D

With such limited amounts of neural pathways to utilize, and such restricted networking in our brains, blaming ourselves for our autistic related actions is as harsh as blaming someone with epilepsy blaming themselves for not controlling their synapse firing, so they had a seizure and broke the lamp.
well I don't totally agree with that, I am a adult and it would be not mature to not take responsibility for my actions. To blame your bad behavior on your condition is not taking responsibility for it. Even if I am having the worst sensory meltdown ever, I also realize it is not acceptable to act all wild just because I can blame it on autism, I, like most, have some control over the situation, just maybe some have not learned the proper strategies to deal with the situations, unlike someone having a seizure, who does not have any control whatever over themselves while having the seizure. (well at least not control over the seizure anyway)

[Aspigander]

This is a quote from the other thread:

As far as your 'misactions'...look at it this way. This is my analogy so by no means medically correct, though I do believe it is philosophically very accurate. Ok, you know what asthma does to a person's lungs and ability to breathe...well an ASD brain has what I will call neurological asthma, there are only a few pathways that are open wide enough to be of use. The tiny pathways can't interconnect since they are closed (causing poor 'networking' between different areas of your brain). You have limited neurological options from which you can make decisions about actions, and that has nothing to do with YOU as a person, it's just your neurology. You have the same brain as an nt, with restricted neurological flow throughout all areas not involving concrete thought/memorization. Just like someone with or without asthma have the same lungs. Make sense?

I began the 'misaction' statement I made to you, because I blamed myself my entire life for all my 'dumb' actions which were daily and plentiful, I just felt so continually depressed, like such a failure, and that feeling grew and grew the older I got not matter how much I tried to isolate myself from potential failure (knowing anything people related I'd try would only end up as a disaster). I don't want other asd's to hold them self responsible like I did, just as I would not want someone with epilepsy blaming themselves for not controlling their synapse firing, so they had a seizure and broke the lamp.

Okay, I posted that quote in this thread because Roadracer pretty much summed up what my problem/confusion is with the whole 'misactions' thing:

To blame your bad behavior on your condition is not taking responsibility for it.

Okay, that perfectly sums up my feelings, what I've been taught my whole life. I will admit, sometimes I don't feel like I have control in the moment, and that may be due to Asperger's, BUT to say that I'm an aspie and therefore have free license to do whatever...something just doesn't seem quite right with that.

Okay, let me use an analogy of my own to see if I can illustrate what my issue is. I'm visually impaired, to the point I cannot drive. Well let's say I decided to get behind the wheel of a vehicle, was driving along, and hit another vehicle, seriously injuring its occupants.

Mili, which of the two following statements would you be making?

1. "Well, it's not your fault. You didn't have the vision to know you were about to hit that other car. Don't blame yourself for it."

Or

2. "LAUREN!!!! WHAT ON EARTH WERE YOU DOING BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?!?"

[LIZARD]

RDI on the other hand, opens the closed pathways just like an inhaler opens the closed lungs. So many many many neural pathways can think/process information, all the different parts of the brain can network with one another and the options in life are no longer limited or restricted.

Comments?

Ah...I was waiting for the RDI plug! :D :p I think this is actually a very good explanation. The only real diff I can think of is that asthma isn't constant (thank God), whereas the effect "neurological asthma" has on autism is a constant effect...but it does make sense! :) Thanks, hon'!

*hug

LIZARD :)

[milivica]

Reply to RR:

>>>>Just wondering, do you have asthma?

how many forms of asthma do I have, lol :D

LOLOL, now that's funny. I don't have asthma, my husband and son do. My understanding of asthma is limited to doctor's visits, their explanations, the charts on their walls. To seeing pics of the large bronchile tubes in lungs being inflamed and with a layer of mucus (so restricted) and the small bronchile tubes being shut off all together.

>>>>I am a adult and it would be not mature to not take responsibility for my actions. To blame your bad behavior on your condition is not taking responsibility for it.

Well it's too bad everyone in the world doesn't have that quality, there'd be no crime or theft, etc...

I know what you're saying, honest I do. I felt the same at one time. Recognizing and feeling responsible for your actions is only part of the 'being a mature adult' equation. Put it this way, even when I failed or behaved badly, I was putting forth all the effort I could, more effort than anyone else my age for sure, yet I'd still screw up somehow with my behavior. So, I think you should focus on how hard you've tried, feel pride in that, recognize it, put your achievement of trying in the front of your mind, not how you've 'failed' or 'behaved'. So even when you meltdown, you can come out of the experience spotlighting for yourself how hard you tried, not how you behaved. Make more sense? That's how you're going to build self love.

You don't need to build taking responsibility for your behavior or actions, you've already got plenty of that. Feeling responsibility for your actions are the large 'neurological' bronchile tubes in your brain, feeling self love and proud of how hard you tried are your closed (neurological) bronchile tubes. Is that making sense?

>>>>it is not acceptable to act all wild just because I can blame it on autism,

Sure, that's true of course - when acting wild is something you decide and choose you will do, then blame on autism. But that's not what you're doing or what I'm implying should be done.

>>>>I, like most, have some control over the situation, just maybe some have not learned the proper strategies to deal with the situations, unlike someone having a seizure, who does not have any control whatever over themselves while having the seizure. (well at least not control over the seizure anyway)

Yes you have control over the situation, but try to imagine your brain in a constant state of an asthma attack, that is what I'm saying is going on in your brain (neurologically). There is during every occasion, intercommunication between all the different areas of the brain in nt's, not so in asd's. You're networking sucks, and because of that, when you make decisions about behavior you are only using the parts of your brain that are 'open' such as the parts that memorize or think in a concrete way - and those parts of the brain are not helpful in situations where you have to moment by moment, gauge the emotional direction of a situation. Anyhow, due to sucky networking, often the only choice about behavior I had was total suppression, or explosion. I don't call that much of a choice. It's a recipe for failure I could not escape...what helped me immediately and immensely was realizing it was my crappy networking, not me, my crappy and limited menu of 2 choices (suppression or explosion) that made my behavioral choices often bad. But it wasn't ME. Nothing about ME is broken or defective...and I will say it took years for me to feel a part of the human race.

Ok well that all was longer than I meant to type. I really like that you took the time to type what you didn't agree with or feel applied to you. I just really want everyone who feels responsible or ashamed of their 'behavior' to shift their focus on all the positives prior to the behavior, to recognize and give themself a pat on the back for all the social success they are responsible for.

[milivica]

AspieG

>>>>BUT to say that I'm an aspie and therefore have free license to do whatever...something just doesn't seem quite right with that.

Yeah, I'm totally not saying that. Maybe what I wrote to RR above will clarify. But I'm not saying do what ever comes to mind and it's ok. Just don't want you to be hard on yourself, when you've tried your level best and could not produce the behavior you'd like due to your sucky neural networking.

Your analogy, since you are aware you are too visually impaired to drive (concrete part of your brain knows this, there's nothing to think through, it's a concrete fact) I'd have to pick number 2. "LAUREN!!!! WHAT ON EARTH WERE YOU DOING BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?!?"

Now, what if your mom began drifting into unconscious behind the wheel, you are moving, in traffic, her foot is on the gas, hands on the wheel, but she is passed out - there is no right choice, there are choices that are better than others, but there is no right 'concrete' choice you could have prepared yourself to make here. There are many factors to consider, so many, that the different parts of your brain must have some quick communication together (your brain won't be able to do that) and make a decision. If, in that scenario, you did the best you could to get the car to stop, to steer away from pedestrians but then wound up hitting a car and seriously injuring folks anyhow, I'd say you did the best you could given the situation. I would not say you should not have tried to drive cause of your vision, and would say it would be a bad decision not to drive cause of your vision...however...many aspies in that position would not drive cause they are not supposed to.

MOST everything in life is not concrete, not rehearsable. Our brains do best with things concrete, and rehearseable. Until such time, as you can become good at things not concrete and rehearseable, realize that you are doing the best you can with what you got (neurologically) and stop focusing on any failed outcomes or bad behavior, and realize it's your neurology, not YOU.

That make more sense?

[Aspigander]

Okay, what you said in both your posts to RR and to me made more sense (to me anyway). I think we both (at least I did) got the impression that you were saying that we don't have to worry about our behavior because of our neurology, and (for me at least) that wasn't sitting extremely well.

I would not say you should not have tried to drive cause of your vision, and would say it would be a bad decision not to drive cause of your vision...however...many aspies in that position would not drive cause they are not supposed to.

Huh? Are you saying aspies in general shouldn't drive so probably wouldn't, or that aspies with visual impairments would likely not attempt because they are not supposed to due to the VI?

Actually I think it would be dangerous for me to do anything in that situation, except maybe try to pull my mom's foot off the gas, whip out my cell phone, and call 911. I'm not someone who has been through driver's ed and then lost too much vision to drive. In that case I'd at least have a clue what I was doing. I never had the vision to even go through training, so anything I would be doing in attempts to drive would be doing so with NO CLUE of what I am doing.

[milivica]

>>>Huh? Are you saying aspies in general shouldn't drive so probably wouldn't, or that aspies with visual impairments would likely not attempt because they are not supposed to due to the VI?

No, nothing like that. Just saying the in the scenario I gave of a driver passing out, many people on the autistic spectrum would sit and do nothing because they had no license so the idea they could help guide the car would be unthinkable. There's a lot of concrete thought involved with autism and aspergers, cause of the lack of neurological networking in the brain.

If you pose a dilema to a room full of 20 people, give them 5 minutes, they will discuss it, and come up with a solution created by the collaboration of all 20 people.

If you pose a dilema to one person give them 5 minutes, that person will come up with an individual solution without benefit of any other input.

Imagine a brain has 20 sections that interconnect. A brain with aspergers is like the one person, your brain makes decisions based on one area of your brain, concrete thought. In a brain without aspergers all 20 areas intercommunicates with one another to arrive at decisions.

A concrete or singular thought in a brain has no 'gray' area, things are right or wrong, good or bad, you are raging or suppressing, just not a lot of inbetween. Flexible thinking in a brain in which all the areas of the brain can intercommunicate or network with one another, has nothing be gray area, flexible thinking on which good, better, even better, best type thinking can occur.

Ok I'm rushing now, hope I'm making sense. Gotta run outside and plant, and start a fun fort with my kids.
Lisa

[Aspigander]

Ah, okay, I think I get it. I also reread your response to Roadracer and would like to add something.

About the crappy menu of two choices, suppression or explosion. There will be times I *choose* suppression because that at least has me not (as Roadracer put it) "acting wild". Because, as Roadracer said, it is not good to act wild and then blame it on the neurology (which it seems you actually agree on).

Here's where I run into trouble. It is very stressful to suppress. Sure, that seems like a better choice than explosion, but suppression takes energy. When you have no middle ground you have to choose one or the other. Well, the container in which you have to 'suppress' things has a finite amount of space. Suppress enough stuff and it's gonna fill up. So let's say I'm choosing suppression, because I'd rather that than meltdown, suppression has me at least not acting wild. Lots of stuff may happen that make me either have to choose suppression or meltdown. Well if I suppress enough things, my "storage container" is going to fill up. What happens when it's all full and that one final straw happens? Then that list of two choices is knocked down to one. Meltdown.

What happens is that storage container that I've been suppressing things in gets too full, can't hold anything more, and I STILL have a meltdown. And not only am I melting down about that final straw, I'm now melting down about everything I've been keeping in 'storage'.

You know, now that I think about it, I'm not so sure what is the better of the two options. Is it better to meltdown about each individual thing as it comes, and have smaller meltdowns, and not act *as* wild each meltdown, or is it better to suppress, keep things in storage until that storage container can hold no more, until I only have that one "choice", and have a megameltdown?

Grrrr! Neither are good choices! I wish I had a bigger storage container!

[peglem]

Do you have any control over when or how you empty the storage? I mean is there another way for you to release those stored up things, dispel the anxiety? I believe RR suggested exercise (I know, me too. That's why I'm fat and dumpy). But, exercise is supposed to help alleviate anxiety. How about enrolling in some kind of martial arts?

[Aspigander]

Enrolling in anything will just require more of my mom (transportation) and just increase anxiety.

When at my parents' house, they're rural so I can go walk around the yard without running into people. I don't have that luxury at the apartment, but I'm thinking the distance between my door in and out of my apartment to my bathroom is a nice straight shot. Maybe if I pace back and forth between those two doors that would help.

Does that sound good?

Other than that I have no clue about how to empty the storage in a constructive manner.

[roadracer]

Enrolling in anything will just require more of my mom (transportation) and just increase anxiety.

When at my parents' house, they're rural so I can go walk around the yard without running into people. I don't have that luxury at the apartment, but I'm thinking the distance between my door in and out of my apartment to my bathroom is a nice straight shot. Maybe if I pace back and forth between those two doors that would help.

Does that sound good?

Other than that I have no clue about how to empty the storage in a constructive manner.

No, pacing back and forth is not exercise, that wont help you at all. You have to get the heart pumping, break a sweat.
Jogging down the block and back, jumping jacks, situps, pushups, pullups, crunches, taking the dogs for a walk, going for a hike, going for a walk with some big hills in it, swimming, stationary bicycle, treadmill, aerobics, heck there are aerobic shows on tv every day, heck you could even buy yourself some Richard Simmons videos that way you will get a good laugh and a workout at the same time. These are just a few things I could think of off the top of my head, there are hundreds more. Along with that you could also try yoga, calisthenics, some meditation or something like that.

[Aspigander]

stationary bicycle

Okay, got one in my apartment. I did think of that, but it's buried under loads of clutter.

So pacing back and forth wouldn't work if I do so at a jog?

[roadracer]

well then go dig out the stationary bike, turn on some of your favorite music, and ride for a good 30 minutes to start, see how you feel the next day and add more time if you think you can do it. OR do one of the other things I listed or something else. Forget the pacing/jogging in your apartment, unless you have a very large apartment, you are just going to get dizzy from the constant turning around you would have to do. If you really want to jog, go out side to do it, the fresh air and natural sunlight will help also.
I get the feeling your make this more complicated then it is, probably because you really dont want to do it? I am sure it is much easier to just take some meds, deal with the side effects and be much less healthy, but with the exercise you dont have any side effects, and it is going to do so much more for your health then just ease some anxiety.

[Aspigander]

Well, the only reason meds is being considered is because I had it suggested to consider it by my psychologist who has stressed multiple times that she rarely recommends meds. In spite of the fact that I'd probably been on a dozen different meds throughout my childhood that didn't do much. So I'm not one to be overly excited about the idea of meds. Just other strategies I've tried thus far haven't done much.

I think I'll get the stationary bike unburied, as I plan to declutter the bedroom (where it is located) pretty soon. I am very hesitant to do anything that takes me outside, unless in my parents' rural area, as I don't like the idea of doing anything that might bring me into contact with other people. So in that regard I probably am making things more complicated than necessary, but that has more to do with the people avoidance more than anything else.

[milivica]

My exercise isn't aerobic, but I make sure I try to just keep moving throughout the day. That's how I lost 20 pounds this winter I think, and I didn't even set out to do so. I started cooking like mad, which meant eating like mad too...but...with doing everything home made it kept me in constant motion. Kneeding, rolling noodles, all the chopping and prep involved in meals (so mostly arm work, but on my feet). It's not aerobic but I was able to do it for long amounts of time cause I picked things I liked. I hate exercise just for the sake of exercise, but I can (for instance) ride a bike with my kids till I'm pooped cause I like us doing that together, take a super long walk together. The one time I was able to exercise and it felt great, was this one time we rented a boat and I rowed, wow, I just loved rowing. I have no idea why but just didn't want to stop no matter how tired I got.

I think the suggestion of yoga is a great one too, but not yoga for the sake of twisting yourself into a pretzel, do the kind that clears you mind...hey look into doing that really slow motion stuff easterners do, what the heck is that called...anyone???

For depression, exercise is probably a life saver. Not to mention healthy for a person. I should do lots more than I do. I can best do it in spurts all day long, but I'm just not the type to go to the gym every day or whatnot, I don't seem to have strength in the area of 'follow through'. I start out strong, then fade quickly.

Find something involving movement that you like to do, start there. Can you just turn on the radio or a favorite CD and dance for a good amount of time? Dancing is super exercise.

[roadracer]

Mili, I understand your analogy/post much better, you did make sense.

LOLOL, now that's funny. I don't have asthma, my husband and son do. My understanding of asthma is limited to doctor's visits, their explanations, the charts on their walls. To seeing pics of the large bronchile tubes in lungs being inflamed and with a layer of mucus (so restricted) and the small bronchile tubes being shut off all together.
I was thinking you meant what it feels like to have asthma, like when your having the symtoms what it feels like, so now I understand the analogy is just comparing the outside view of asthma to what autism is like.

I just really want everyone who feels responsible or ashamed of their 'behavior' to shift their focus on all the positives prior to the behavior, to recognize and give themself a pat on the back for all the social success they are responsible for
I understand, but also want to say that if you never fealt ashamed or bad about there behavior I dont think we would ever want to change it. I guess you are right in that we shouldnt spend to much time thinking about it.

[roadracer]

I hate exercise just for the sake of exercise, but I can (for instance) ride a bike with my kids till I'm pooped cause I like us doing that together, take a super long walk together.
Taking the super long walk is exercise, so is the cooking, as long as you are active and not spending all day sitting on your behind, and your doing the garden, and the fact that you lost 20 pounds, you are getting exercise, so yes you are exercising. It does not need to be a specific workout inorder for you to get enough exercise. So if you lost 20 pounds I would say to keep doing what your doing, as it is really working for you.

[milivica]

Glad I'm making more sense now.

It's great you want to improve, remember that a person doesn't have to be hard on them self to improve.

I guess in my experience, aspies are harder on themselves than any other group of people. I see both you and AspieG doing that, just as I did. I'll always remember the giant relief and burdon lifted from my heart and spirit, when I understood my neurology and not ME was 'faulty'.

I hoped what I'd posted would not only help nt moms here to understand their kids perspectives using that analogy, but also hoped it'd help you and AspieG take more time enjoying all your positive attributes, and never beating yourself up over any negatives you perceive. You're just a wonderful guy.

[Aspigander]

Okay, what Mili's been saying about this whole thing reminds me of one of my posts here, if not my first post here. It was where I had done something that was socially not acceptable, but I just couldn't understand why (that is, until Mili the aspie was able to finally explain it to me). Actually, I think it was Mili who somehow thought I was a male in that particular thread. :p

Mili, do you remember the incident where I repeated a comment my dad made about someone's boat docking skills (http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=38782&highlight=dock+boat)?

I really couldn't feel bad about that incident until it was finally explained to me WHY it was inappropriate. I think one of those situations where I could accurately say that my neurology caused, or at least influenced, a bad social move on my part. Though now I know better, I understand why it wasn't appropriate, so if I do it again, I can't really say it was my neurology.

[Aspigander]

I guess in my experience, aspies are harder on themselves than any other group of people. I see both you and AspieG doing that, just as I did.

but also hoped it'd help you and AspieG take more time enjoying all your positive attributes, and never beating yourself up over any negatives you perceive.

Mili,
I do see RR as being overly hard on himself. I see myself as being modest.

[tgrimes]

Just want to say something here hope it makes sense -
Maybe if you train yourself to 'unleash' or 'unload' on strangers instead of friends or family members it would help. If you are feeling on the edge, just avoid family for a little while and go to the grocery store or something. Don't know if anyone else uses that, but it helps me.

[roadracer]

yeah, I probably am way to hard on myself, but it has been programed in my head and hard not to beat myself up over things. Like yesterdays bike race I got a big DNF. It was a field of one hundred racers in my race, and I got behind a couple crashes, one crash they took 3 people away in ambulances, so I am glad that I did not get hurt, as it looked nasty (and one of my teammates went down in it). So it was hard to catch back up with the group after being behind the crashes, and eventually I had to drop out. But, I beat myself up for dropping out of the race, as I should have been able to stay up. So I hope next weekend goes better, if it does not I will really be beating myself up.
oddly enough I know how to look at the races in a positive way, but for some reason I just dont if things go bad.

[Aspigander]

I typed up a post and then lost it somehow. Grrrr!

So I hope next weekend goes better, if it does not I will really be beating myself up.

I hope it goes better too, but if not, might I make a suggestion? Instead of beating yourself up, realize you put forth the effort, and give yourself credit for it.

BTW, what is DNF?

[milivica]

Ugh! Grimey, I was so excited when I saw you'd posted here, I know you'll be honest about what you think about my autism analogy. And you didn't say anything about it. Yeesh, well I love the darn thing, it's as close as a non-neurologist like me is gonna get to 'seeing' autism.

RR and AspieG,

Vince just did something that is part of what I was saying to you both (and any other aspies reading). He took my daughter's dollhouse plastic bathtub, and filled it to the brim with water, and put it in his rats' cage and removed their sturdy heavy drinking bowl. I went to say goodnight to him (rats are in his room) and splashhhhh, water everywhere, the rats tipped the tub. Which, was totally predictable. There was a time, when Vince would have been hard on himself, would have called himself dumb, and just went on and on either out loud or in his own head about what a stupid thing he did and the mess he made, etc etc etc. Know what he said tonight though? He and I looked at one another like 'oh crap' and he said, "Well, at least I tried!" See how he noted the positive? "I tried", not I failed. I know it's a very small thing, and nothing like what goes on in the world - but - I'm making sure he trains himself to not be hard on himself about ANYTHING, big or small. In the past, before RDI, I would have either suppressed my irritation that now I have a mess to clean and why didn't he just leave the cage as it was, but tonight I didn't feel that way at all. It was just natural and automatic for me to reinforce the positive, I told him, "That was a really cool idea, rats in a Barbie tub is hysterical. Guess we have to stick with their heavy water bowl though, too bad, what a fun idea you had." He then said "Sorry about the water on the floor" I said "Eh, well it's clean now right?" End result, mom and son are happy...even had we not been happy it would not dry the floor. I love feeling this way, so 'light' inside, it's still new, I don't do it all the time but mostly.

I'm telling you, at his age, anything I did that went wrong, it just tore me up inside feeling like a total failure at even the simplest things (like giving rats a fancy tub instead of an ugly water bowl). And that incompetence and being down on myself grew as I got older. The best I could do is avoid anything I might screw up, so avoided most everything.

So, there's an example of positive ongoing appraisal, and building a positive episodic memory for Vince. When ever he sees that Barbie tub, he will have a feeling inside about how creative he was, not about how stupid he was to spill all that water. See? It's those little things, that happen every day many times a day, that help you build yourself up.

[Aspigander]

LOL! He sure was creative!

I used to have rats, but they sure are hard to keep alive.

[tgrimes]

Ugh! Grimey, I was so excited when I saw you'd posted here, I know you'll be honest about what you think about my autism analogy. And you didn't say anything about it. Yeesh, well I love the darn thing, it's as close as a non-neurologist like me is gonna get to 'seeing' autism.



Ugh... why do you do this to me? Why did I even check back here I don't know, I was happlily doing my addicting games till I got tired... Now I won't be able to sleep worrying about your dissappointment!
Okay, I will go over it in more detail but for now I really like the analogy part, but the neuronal part, that is just too simple or better yet incomplete, (as you will have to tie it in with my REM sleep theory.)
So okay, wait up, I'll get on it...

[milivica]

The only real diff I can think of is that asthma isn't constant (thank God), whereas the effect "neurological asthma" has on autism is a constant effect...but it does make sense! :) Thanks, hon'!

*hug

LIZARD :)
woah sorry Liz I missed your post!
Yes, I meant 'neurological asthma' as being a constant, not intermittent restriction.

[roadracer]

LOL! He sure was creative!

I used to have rats, but they sure are hard to keep alive.

lol, yep, me to, I killed many rats and mice growing up, I was not exactly the greatest at caring for them. :o

Mili, I am going to try to be more positive from now on

BTW, what is DNF?
Did Not Finish :o
realize you put forth the effort, and give yourself credit for it
That works maybe the first season or so, when you just started racing and you do bad and you just tell yourself "I gave it my best effort". But at my level of racing that is not acceptable anymore. You learn a lesson from each race, and you have to be able to analyze what you did wrong and what you did rite and how that relates to your training and future racing. When the person in charge of the team ask you how the race went, you cant just tell them you gave it your all, if the race did not go good you have to be able to tell them what went wrong and what you are going to do with your training to avoid it in future races. If you make the same mistakes all the time without working on them, then you better start looking for a new team. The problem is that I just cant find any of the positives in this race. At the same time if you never look at and examine what you did wrong you will never get better at it. Although a positve is that I did have fun and that is a requirement. It is always fun to be able to hange out with friends/teammates, although I did make a few social blunders that I cant keep from thinking about, but really no big deal I guess.

[Aspigander]

lol, yep, me to, I killed many rats and mice growing up, I was not exactly the greatest at caring for them.

More frustrating is when you're doing all the right things, making sure they're well cared for, making sure they see a vet who specializes in exotics when need be, and they still keel over. That was pretty much my scenario. I should be saying at least I tried, but that's kind of hard to do when little lives you're responsible for are lost. Now I stick to hardier animals.

Did Not Finish

I kind of wondered if that's what it meant.

You learn a lesson from each race, and you have to be able to analyze what you did wrong and what you did rite and how that relates to your training and future racing. When the person in charge of the team ask you how the race went, you cant just tell them you gave it your all, if the race did not go good you have to be able to tell them what went wrong and what you are going to do with your training to avoid it in future races. If you make the same mistakes all the time without working on them, then you better start looking for a new team.

Okay, I'm not saying, and I don't think Mili is saying, that you shouldn't examine yourself and learn from your mistakes.

BUT you got caught in a situation beyond your control (got behind some crashes), which I'm sure was pretty stressful, still tried to catch back up. So while sure, you would want to examine what you could have done differently, it sounds like a lot of it was beyond your control.

[tgrimes]

...well an ASD brain has what I will call neurological asthma,

Yes, excellent example

there are only a few neurological pathways that are open wide enough to be of use. The tiny pathways can't interconnect since they are closed (causing poor 'networking' between different areas of your brain). ASD's have limited neurological options from which we can make decisions about actions, and that has nothing to do with us as a people, it's just our neurology. We have the same brain as an nt, with restricted neurological flow throughout all areas not involving concrete thought/memorization.

There, good imagery



So, ABA then, teaching the autistic to utilize the pathways they have for everything they need to do in life, even if they are not the proper pathways for the task which is why ABA teaches the concrete.

RDI on the other hand, opens the closed pathways just like an inhaler opens the closed lungs. So many many many neural pathways can think/process information, all the different parts of the brain can network with one another and the options in life are no longer limited or restricted.



here, I like the compare / contrast between ABA and RDI because it definitely puts an abstract image on it, one that reinforces how you have been comparing the two in the past.

Here's what I don't like:
'limited neurological pathways - do we all agree to this, i'm not sure. I think it was found there are actually some overdeveloped pathways, (particularly of prefrontal cortex?) don't remember exactly, but how to fit that into the asthma analogy?

Last but not least, REM sleep - everything you learn during the day is 'cemented' into a pathway at night during REM sleep, and can be accessed for recall later in similar instances for referencing, but that recall is missing in those without proper REM sleep. ( So.... how about jest a little space for ' REM asthma' on your theory? :) )

So for the most part, the analogy is super... I don't know how much stuff you read but one of the most confusing autism authors (to me) is Simon Baron Cohen. He writes profusely, but with each passing article it becomes unclear where his real beliefs lie. It's like all different theories are all presented, but sort of like he just wants to get as many journal articles published as possible. Maybe that is the goal, just presenting the research and does not want to get opinionated.
So, what I am saying, is if I have to compare your ideas to one of the most journaled medical experts on autism, I do have a better time reading yours. :)

[milivica]

That works maybe the first season or so, when you just started racing and you do bad and you just tell yourself "I gave it my best effort". But at my level of racing that is not acceptable anymore. You learn a lesson from each race, and you have to be able to analyze what you did wrong and what you did rite and how that relates to your training and future racing. When the person in charge of the team ask you how the race went, you cant just tell them you gave it your all, if the race did not go good you have to be able to tell them what went wrong and what you are going to do with your training to avoid it in future races. If you make the same mistakes all the time without working on them, then you better start looking for a new team. The problem is that I just cant find any of the positives in this race. At the same time if you never look at and examine what you did wrong you will never get better at it. Although a positve is that I did have fun and that is a requirement. It is always fun to be able to hange out with friends/teammates, although I did make a few social blunders that I cant keep from thinking about, but really no big deal I guess.

Yes, on a team sport or in a job, output or winning or making money for your company is more important that repeatedly trying your best to your coach or employer. A landlord won't care how badly you wished you could pay the rent or how many creative ways you tried to raise the rent money. Those are concrete issues that are a must.

As far as you saying >>>The problem is that I just cant find any of the positives in this race.<<< Well, just like Vince did, I'd say at least you TRIED. And no, that won't keep you on a team I understand. But building your biking skills on the fact that you have the guts to get out there and try, that you didn't quit, is better than building your skills and speed and improvement on fearing you'll get canned. Focusing on "I can do this" over and over is positive.

As far as your bike racing, yes, you do need to keep improving but unlike in social situations, you have a fair and equal chance in bicycling, well until you get old like me (ha ha).

[milivica]

I'm thrilled about the stuff you liked!

>>>>Here's what I don't like:
'limited neurological pathways - do we all agree to this, i'm not sure. I think it was found there are actually some overdeveloped pathways, (particularly of prefrontal cortex?) don't remember exactly, but how to fit that into the asthma analogy?

Ah, well, crap that would not fit into my analogy.

Well, you'd have to imagine a person with asthma, continually under a mild attack. Imagine their main bronchial tubes they use for all breathing (remember, they can't use the small ones) have been so overused, they have formed some bronchial branches that non-asthmatic folks don't have (like a river starting to overflow it's banks). The neural pathways a person with asd uses, are used for everything...so social skills are processed in the 'concrete' area of the brain, which, can only memorize...well there's no way to memorize social skills.

Hmmm, ok, imagine a map of all the rivers in America. Alleviate half of all the smallest rivers on the map. Alleviate half of all the sections of rivers that merge. Imagine how large say the Mississippi would be now since it has to carry the full load for all the alleviated rivers.

Cripe, I knew you'd challenge me!

>>>>Last but not least, REM sleep - everything you learn during the day is 'cemented' into a pathway at night during REM sleep, and can be accessed for recall later in similar instances for referencing, but that recall is missing in those without proper REM sleep. ( So.... how about jest a little space for ' REM asthma' on your theory? :) )

Sure! But, if you aren't absorbing social skills, there's nothing to cement in at night (socially). All the 'concrete' things absorbed during the day is cemented in when you have autism, isn't it? I need to read your REM thread again.

>>>>So for the most part, the analogy is super... I don't know how much stuff you read but one of the most confusing autism authors (to me) is Simon Baron Cohen. He writes profusely, but with each passing article it becomes unclear where his real beliefs lie. It's like all different theories are all presented, but sort of like he just wants to get as many journal articles published as possible. Maybe that is the goal, just presenting the research and does not want to get opinionated.

The very best material I've ever read to understand autism, is material about typical development. When I read what should happen, then I can visualize it and visualize the aspect my child (or myself) is missing. Authors like Daniel Siegel, Alan Fogel, Barbara Rogoff, check them out. Mostly, read the darn RDI book that just came out, for an overpriced $45, still well worth it. In the first chapter, you'll see why I thought of a 'neurological asthma' analogy from reading the description of what happens to the asd brain.

>>>>So, what I am saying, is if I have to compare your ideas to one of the most journaled medical experts on autism, I do have a better time reading yours. :)

COOL! But of course. Especially now that my posts are actually shorter than the journals of the medical experts :D