thoughts from pter on suicide

[bizi]

Thoughts from Pter on Suicide

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"Our minds are quite manipulative particularly when cultivated by fear. Do not fear your suicidal thoughts. Do not be ashamed of them. Do not let them be a negative aspect of your being. Accept them..and post them here or talk openly about them to friends and family...

A suicidal thought is NOT initiated by the mind as a way to harm the person.
It is initiated by the mind as a misguided attempt to protect the person. By understanding its intent you will be able to redirect it with self esteem and self love in place...fear will not be able to stimulate the negative cascading psysiological affects that make so many of us tire to the point of accepting suicide as the solution."

~Pter

Peters' words regarding suicidal thoughts

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As to the thoughts, I will be the first to say they are exhausting and, as I have said previously, they tire us to a point where we honestly believe suicide is the only solution. It is not. BEFRIEND and TALK. These thoughts are a part of you, for better or worse. I believe strongly in a physiological connection with suicidal thoughts. Our fear of the thought stimulates a negative physiological reaction which appears to give the negative thoughts enhanced power over us. Step back for a moment and place yourself in an imaginary situation. You see a child running into a busy roadway...you run quickly to save this child from oncoming cars...feel the reaction rising in your body. The adrenaline pounding throughout your body and brain. Now the rescue is over, your alone, feel the exhaustion of your body and mind.

You are rescuing yourself daily, hourly, every few minutes. Each thought envokes a physiological reaction with the end result being exhaustion. Befriend this thought. Treat it as you would the child who ran into the pathway of cars. Hold it, talk to it, teach it that there is another way to walk the roads of life. Post it here and allow others to comfort it. Do not be ashamed of it. What is it really but a thought that wants attention. Understand now, I did not say a PERSON who wants attention but a THOUGHT that wants attention from that person. It is the fight against the thought that tires us and makes us vulnerable to enactment of the thought.

I cannot give you a reason to live. I can, however, take away your reason for dying. An untrained unaccepted thought is not justification for death.

[yoyo_girl]

who is peter? :confused:

[bizi]

We lost my only brother about 15 years ago to suicide.
I don't want you to give up hope sweetie.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

[yoyo_girl]

oh, i remember alffe.. the name anyway. You know... this may be upsetting... but I went to the SOS forum here... more than once and there was no one there. I was so desperate.

I'll be ok bizi. I will. Just sometimes I do need to address that thought. It's sad that the way we live is to make people afraid to even talk about feeling suicidal. I am very very cautious because I don't want the police at my door. But what can we do? If someone is crying and raving about being too tired to live? Do you call the police? Do you allow them to just get it out? What I usually need is to just get it out. I need to scream, cry..rant. I have done this job long enough to know when I need to go to the hospital myself... but what do you do when you don't need that, you just need to scream it outloud?

I am so very very sorry about your brother. It's something that never makes sense to those left behind. When I was in high school an exboyfriend shot himself. I could never grasp it. I felt/feel so responsible even though we had not been dating in a couple of yrs. No one knows someone else's private ****.

It's my tendency towards Buddhism that shapes my resolve. I once read a poem which said to embrace my winters as I did my summers.. and that, in combination with the teachings I have read left me wanting to learn from life and not simply be shoved around by it. I have great intentions... I'm just not so great about making that happen. :(

Thanks for sharing this Bizi.

[yoyo_girl]

we aren't allowed to say heII? quack? I'm not christian.. but even if I were, it's not a bad word, it's a state of mind or spirit. who came up with THAT crock?

[bizi]

Please don't feel afraid to post how you feel....
You have been suffering for a long time.
I respect you when you say that you just need to be able to vent scream and cry.
Yes you can do all of that here.
Just know that the fixer in me wants to fix it for you.
So if you will be patient with me....I will listen..and listen well...and hopefully support you as best as I can.
(((HUGS)))
bizi

[waves]

Bizi, i need to thank you for starting this thread. This is just the kind of things we need to be able to discuss here, openly and without reserve.

Over the years i've come to think that suicidal ideation is a psychological escape mechanism... when you see no way out - that is a way to end the pain. This fits right in with what Pter said.

Again thanks. Are you ok? I have not read a lot of threads, partly from general overwhelm at doing ANYTHING, and partly due to limited on line time. you seemed hypo for a while... what is going on?

((( bizi )))

~ waves ~ from the dark and deep

[waves]

Dear Yoyo,

I hope you are ok too. my issues are many, deep and complex, they are all in my lap, NOW, and aren't the kind that go away... major stress. This makes me wonder if all the stressors brought you down so deep. I wonder a huge amount of rest would help you.

Med-wise, I wonder if an AP would help. Even small amounts of Zyprexa help "fix your head" as well as make you sleep. Seroquel is not effective in that sense, till you get up to the higher doses... 4...600 mg.

Where are you now... did the hypo wear off... i hope not too much. ;).

((( Yoyo )))

~ waves ~ at the edge of the woods
~

[waves]

I've been having those thoughts for weeks now, in the past two weeks constantly all day. it got so bad the other day i chose "the implement" - thinking about ways... all throughout crying like a fountain. i cried so violently the hole in my essence became a hole in my stomach. i cried incessantly for hours upon hours upon hours... had been for a couple days... a few mins break and then start over.

finally i just couldn't take it any more. i thought to myself though, that the thoughts that wouldn't stop... the pain that wouldn't stop... that maybe there was another "out" than the final one.

i didn't call emergency. i didn't wake my parents. i took a Zyprexa along with my regular pills, including as-needed sleeping pills, left my parents a note saying i took Z and that i would consequently be knocked out for hours (they know how Z does that) so that they would not worry.

i awoke 12 hours later - my mom woke me to take my regular pills and still had sobbing in my throat, in my breath. i slept more. when i finally woke again i was ok. today, i felt a fair bit better.

i cannot say i am 'ok' but, relatively, i'm ok.

this is the big huge reason that, despite my own urge and volition, i am unable to contribute more to the forum, read more, respond more. :o :( i have ideas to express... but feel trapped :mad: in my current lack of brain to articulate what i would have to say.

but umphhs come back for us, right? otherwise we would be unipolar, right? let's hope soon...

~ waves ~

[bizi]

Dear Waves,

I am glad that you took your zyprexa and then slept.
Pleae don't wait so long to take it...you sound like you were just miserable...It is really important to take this when you need it.
Can I ask why it took so long for you to take it?
((((HUGS))))
bizi

[yoyo_girl]

i am coping. thanks for asking. there is just too much going on right now to even begin to explain... how is life? what 5 minutes and ask again.

i don't feel well at all.... not at all. :(

i am reminded today as to why this all started in the first place.

i know that for most people they just want the pain to stop, or to stop living the way they are... they don't want to die. I get that sometimes too. I get so that i only see choices i feel i can't take, or the worst is when i am just so tired... so weary. I can't get back up one more time and i don't want to.

but today is not the day.

[bizi]

Hugs to you both dear waves and yo yo girl.
(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

[waves]

since the sleep-o-rama i feel better.

bizi i prefer to stay away from the APs at all except as a last-resort-prn. [corrected to read:] generally they are more for mania than depression, anyway, so it had not sprung to my mind, truthfully, as well.

i seemed to be mucccch more agitated inside than i way realized, althewhile being depressed hard. my depression was mixing... is mixing... essentially lability and leaps from darkness to dysphoria. unless i am not sleeping (and i guess, i wasn't getting good enough sleep or start seeing things crooked (like jar lids - d'i ever tell ya bout that one?)

well anyway. this morning, i am ok. yesterday was a good day insofar as i got a lot done. i can't think too much past the present. or i mean future the present. or whatever.

I get so that i only see choices i feel i can't take, or the worst is when i am just so tired... so weary. I can't get back up one more time and i don't want to.this sounds so terribly familiar.

but today is not the day.But no, I was out for stars,
I would not come in
I meant, not even if asked
And I hadn't been

(last verse of Out For Stars by Robert Frost)

hugs to both of you.

~ waves ~ who has to get offline now i already cheated and stayed on an hour at full rate! :eek:

*

[bizi]

I should of private messaged you...I will next time...
(((HUGS)))
bizi

[waves]

WHEWWW !!!

i fixed my post. thanks for pointing that out.

[corrected to read:] generally they are more for mania than depression

ROFL... in software we call it toggle syndrome, where we invert two words (or actions) that are opposites! i need to be extra careful posting about those types of things two - medical effects.

thanks for letting me know, and for your gentle way of doing so.... i hope i didn't actually confuse you. a single dose of an AP anyway, is not going to do much for your thinking process... that takes longer. but you know 18 hours of sleep can put a good dent in mania, dysphoria, or agitation. that's why i used it.

i really hope i didn't 'fuse you all up :o - or anyone else! sowwy.

~ waves ~

[bizi]

I am so glad that you slept waves.
I think I remember one poster who regulated their moods with sleep.
It can be very "curative"...I find that it helps to get me back on tract.
Hope you are feeling better too!
((((HUGS))))
bizi

[waves]

Bizi, posting for the correction was fine: suppose i not seen it/fixed it quickly, at least readers would have an inkling something was awry!

i am doing better... all things considered. I had a terrible therapy session and may suspend... actually it was fine, tho a little off-focus... until the end when he got a personal call - and answered it - when the last word out of my mouth, and it was in context of me, was the word 'suicide.' it only took a minute, but it was the interuption... i said no more, it was practically end of session. i got my script, he set an appointment, postpoint a care-scheme (PCP needs it for state scripts), and i left. walked back in and said cancel but he insisted to know what was wrong (i was pushing down tears). i couldn't say anything. he was very firm but i don't know if i will go. break time. trust. i think i need a separate therapist for emotional/deep stuff.

he's a doctor. he TAKES calls - even from me. and i feel ridiculous saying 'hey, do you mind not taking personal calls when a patient is trying to do the 'right' thing by telling you some really intense to say the least, stuff? Plus he's a doctor (pdoc) - how do i know how important the call was. but that isn't MY problem as a patient. my problem is having a safe, 'holding,' dedicated environment. however i can 'talk' to him freely - feel comfortable, and it takes a long time to get there.

i can't even say i'm paying for it tho, coz he knows i'm broke and wants me to pay him only when i get a job. confused yet? i am.

Yoyo_girl, how are you keeping?

[bizi]

dear waves,
I am sorry that youhad a bad session.
I wish you could jsut say what you said here...maybe you could print it out and give to him...
I don't know...I am terrible at confrontation....
hugs to you dear...
((((HUGS))))
bizi

[yoyo_girl]

thanks for thinking of me waves... esp in the middle of such heartbroken times. and make no mistake, when these people let us down we are heartbroken.

yes, they need to take calls sometimes... but generally not in the middle of someone else's session unless it's an emerg. If he is expecting a call he should say so up front.

if the last word you say is suicide... then the call should have waited. Period.

at the very very least he should have apologized for taking a call... to re-establish your sense of worth.

don't beat yourself up about feeling this way... he is the doctor.. he has been trained about all this stuff. It is perfectly normal to feel this way. When in there you are vulnerable and you choose to be because that is what you need to do. He disrespected that.

does it mean you should finish with him? i don't think so. this could be an opportunity for you to grow a little. i can't tell you what to do.. but this could be a chance to make a better relationship with him.

personally... I am all fudged up. i am struggling physically on top of everything else.

[bizi]

bump for newbies