Medical marijuana ?

[mr wzrd]

I hope i wont get flamed for asking this question,Does anyone have any info on medical marijuana.Im 46 and have been liveing with chronic pain for about 8 years.Cervical radiculopathy[C 4-7 ] DJD ,noctournal parithisis [i can wake up not being able to move]etc ,from multiple car and work related injuries....At this point my DR has prescribed ms contin,hydrocodone[for breakthrough pain] and valium if needed...Im pretty much pain free,with the meds, but have stomach nausa issues.Cant even think about eating untill afternoon,and most of the time i dont feel like eating until i crash[low blood sugar]...I ran into a guy from california who said out there [cali]i would be a canidate for medical marijuana.And as i live in maine it might be an option for me.Im worried if i bring up the subject with my PCP,Ill be branded as a drugie and all the other social stigmas that go along with it.....I understand,that marijuana,being an illegal substance,most DR wont condone its use,BUT there are a few states,like mine where it is susposed to be a legal alterative.Would like to hear from anyone who has dealt with this issue as i dont want any trouble for me or my PCP...thanx Paul.:).Feel free to PM me as this is a tricky subject.:cool:

[snowhappens]

there may be a hopefull future with our new intelligent president

[lobelsteve]

I hope i wont get flamed for asking this question,Does anyone have any info on medical marijuana.Im 46 and have been liveing with chronic pain for about 8 years.Cervical radiculopathy[C 4-7 ] DJD ,noctournal parithisis [i can wake up not being able to move]etc ,from multiple car and work related injuries....At this point my DR has prescribed ms contin,hydrocodone[for breakthrough pain] and valium if needed...Im pretty much pain free,with the meds, but have stomach nausa issues.Cant even think about eating untill afternoon,and most of the time i dont feel like eating until i crash[low blood sugar]...I ran into a guy from california who said out there [cali]i would be a canidate for medical marijuana.And as i live in maine it might be an option for me.Im worried if i bring up the subject with my PCP,Ill be branded as a drugie and all the other social stigmas that go along with it.....I understand,that marijuana,being an illegal substance,most DR wont condone its use,BUT there are a few states,like mine where it is susposed to be a legal alterative.Would like to hear from anyone who has dealt with this issue as i dont want any trouble for me or my PCP...thanx Paul.:).Feel free to PM me as this is a tricky subject.:cool:

Your doc may be in favor of it, you may be in foavor of it, and the medical board in your state may not care...

But Federal Law states it is illegal and the DEA is the agency responsible for enforcing that law. Your doc could lose his DEA license for writing an Rx for medical marijuana. Then the medical board can fine/restrict/discipline/revoke his/her license. It makes it hard to earn a living as an MD/DO if you have no licensure.

We have essentially lealized herion by making opioid available in a pill form. There is a pill form of marijuana but it is reported as less effective than the inhaled form. The benefits of relief from marijuana would not outweigh the risks of smoking marijuana from a health standpoint alone. So when you die from lung cancer and never smoked cigarettes but smoked marijuana prescribed by your MD/DO, your family then has the right to sue that doc. and they will.

So we have legal, health, and regulatory issues making using this drug inappropriate at this time. We also have a little hurdle of science to show how this drug can be equally or more effective than current meds.

[Mark N]

Steve is right about the concerns for marijuana use and the actions now by California is the beginning of lawsuits down the road for lung diseases as the result of smoking marijuana. The advocated of its use want to ignore the health consequences but they are real concerns.

I don't know how you can bring it up with your doctor but I do think that with your meds controlling your pain he is more likely to adjust your dosages to reduce the nausea.

[Pharmacist.steve]

In California - where medical MJ is legal - at the state level - they make an extract that is used in a nebulizer.. I have not seen any reports about how effective it in via this route... it should address the potential "smoking" health problems.

I do know for a fact that the largest HMO - Kaiser - has a pain management program and prescribing medical MJ .. is part of their therapy protocol.

Also the state of Calf will issue individuals growing licenses that limits their growing to a dozen or so plants.

To the best of my knowledge...the DEA has only raided the "MJ Clubs" and has not bothered any individual.

As far as our new President.. he has only stated that he wants a government that is efficient/effective... as long as the law stay on the books that authorized the DEA... I doubt if we see any changes... besides it would take a long time to undo the 100 yrs of brain-washing our society that opiates are bad

[Kira]

There are a lot of legal ways to treat nausea/vomiting that can be very effective... medications & also non-med treatments... I am wondering what you have tried so far.

I have a LOT of issues with nausea & vomiting from my disease, and can definitely relate to how bad it feels to be constantly dealing with throwing up. I have gone through a lot of trial & error with it, and believe me, it is severe and it is frequent. But I HAVE been able to find a med combo that works okay for me enough of the time that I am usually able to avoid having to go to the hospital for fluids or for mito exacerbations triggered by not being able to eat due to puking (I can't tolerate fasting for more than several hours).

Again, I don't know what you have already tried... but, like pain, nausea/vomiting is not something you just have to endure... there ARE effective treatments for it.

I hope you are able to find some way of dealing with your nausea/vomiting. If you haven't yet, and your nausea is so severe... then I really encourage you to find a good doctor (PCP or GI) and try the available meds -- ialong with non-med things like diet & meal size -- and also to take a serious look at the possibility that it could be a side effect of your pain meds. Even if it is a side effect of your pain meds, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have choose between treating your nausea & treating your pain.

In spite of all of the stuff I have going on that makes me puke, we do have it under relatively good control these days. Before, I was throwing up almost daily (often several times per day), with 3-4 ER visits per month for IV D10 & hospitalizations nearly every month for mitochondrial exacerbations that were often triggered by vomiting. It was literally life-threatening. Now, I throw up a few times per week, and when it does happen I usually only throw up once or twice before I get it under control with my home nausea meds. I have only been to the ER 3 times since July 2007 and have only been hospitalized ONCE since then... a far cry from 3-4 times per MONTH with 7-10 hospitalizations PER YEAR. It may sound like my nausea/vomiting isn't under very good control because I do still throw up a lot more often than most people... but it is WAY WAY WAY better than it used to be. It used to seriously interfere with my ability to do anything -- and now it is just an annoying, uncomfortable symptom rather than a severely-limiting, ife-threatening effect of my disease.

[lobelsteve]

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/dangerous_drug.htm

If I had a disease where my cells lacked the ability to make enough energy to do their job properly, I'd do whatever I felt helped.

[Kira]

If I had a disease where my cells lacked the ability to make enough energy to do their job properly, I'd do whatever I felt helped.

I kind of do. Hence all the meds that may or may not currently be making me not breathe while I sleep (the CSA stuff). I can't get in to the sleep clinic until friggin' April though. But the doc who ordered the study is dutifully pestering them about me, so I may at least get a titration study sooner. We'll see.

But overall I am doing a bit better lately. Simple stuff seems to be helping more than all of my "dangerous drugs"... like resting when I need to, or making myself eat better, or the fabulous massage-like stuff my PT does to me to help loosen up all my scarred-up muscles. THAT is one of the few perks of this mito stuff... insurance keeps paying for me to get "massages" when I go to PT (although that's actually only like 10 minutes of it, but it still feels good :) )

For what it's worth, I hate my stupid incompetent cells...

[mr wzrd]

Thanx for the input..I understand the legal ramifications of a dr putting thier licience on the line due to federal laws.And i dont want any trouble for my PCA..BUT..I am aware that there are dr?s who will help patients get the state medical mj card.From there you can go to a dispensary and get your mj presciption filled.There was an hour long news report last night on cnbc dicussing the topic....im not looking for any moral or legal advice,i was hopeing someone who has personal experience might help with some info.Ive taken more meds with more side affects then you could shake a stick at,freaking vioxx almost killed me,So im looking for an alterative...my health/my choice/my opinion..

[Pharmacist.steve]

Thanx for the input..I understand the legal ramifications of a dr putting thier licience on the line due to federal laws.And i dont want any trouble for my PCA..BUT..I am aware that there are dr?s who will help patients get the state medical mj card.From there you can go to a dispensary and get your mj presciption filled.There was an hour long news report last night on cnbc dicussing the topic....im not looking for any moral or legal advice,i was hopeing someone who has personal experience might help with some info.Ive taken more meds with more side affects then you could shake a stick at,freaking vioxx almost killed me,So im looking for an alterative...my health/my choice/my opinion..

I watched the CNBC program as well and the two things that caught my attention is that the area would be financially destroyed if all the MJ was wiped out and that the taxpayers are spending 10 BILLION on this PORTION of the war on drugs and according to the helicopter pilot's comment - WE ARE LOSING.

Does anyone -other than me - see the parallels between "revenuers" breaking barrels of seized alcohol during prohibition and all the gun battles and killing and what we are seeing today with MJ and the "revenuers" cutting down MJ plants and all the violence & killing surrounding this?

[Kira]

Ive taken more meds with more side affects then you could shake a stick at,freaking vioxx almost killed me,So im looking for an alterative...my health/my choice/my opinion..

What have you tried for nausea?

And, still wondering if it could be a side effect of your pain meds. If so, then adding another med/treatment/etc -- whether MJ or prescription or herbal/CAM/holistsic or anything else -- might not be the best approach.

Speaking of side effects... MJ has them, too (I smoked enough of it in high school and college to know that much).

My point wasn't whether or not MJ is "bad"... just that you have other options, and there are a lot of them. If you are not into using any more meds... what about other natural things like ginger, diet, meal size, etc?

Again, I definitely know that it sucks to be puking all of the time... the MJ thing is between you and your doc & I haven't used it for nausea.

You don't have to answer it on here because I don't want to get you into trouble... but it is possible that you already know whether or not MJ works for your nausea (you have already tried it, just without the state's permission). If that is the case... then your question is probably not "would MJ help?" but "would the state to let me do this?" If you already know that it works for your nausea, doesn't cause you other unacceptable side effects, etc... then that changes things a bit.

You may think this next comment is just another "moral" or "legal" argument but I would really, really encourage you to think about this... You have to be very careful that you don't jeopardize your access to pain treatment by using MJ.

[Nana4&cntn]

Steve, I too see the parallels between Prohibition and the MJ. The taxpayers are paying for the losing battle in the "war on drugs", I hope the powers that be will take a SERIOUS look at what is really going on.

Of course then there is the myth that if you smoke,eat,inhale,etc MJ, you will end up taking more intoxicating drugs. Can't win for losing.lol:D

[zax44]

I totally agree - we are losing, not only billions of dollors but all the lives lost,shattered ,etc, by people being imprisioned. this is all wrong, espescially when compared to alcahol - when was the last time you saw a murder caused by MJ? Let us hope and good luck with the nusea
Zax

[Pharmacist.steve]

I totally agree - we are losing, not only billions of dollors but all the lives lost,shattered ,etc, by people being imprisioned. this is all wrong, espescially when compared to alcahol - when was the last time you saw a murder caused by MJ? Let us hope and good luck with the nusea
Zax

Many people are killed over the MJ distribution - street wars... of course if we were to tax this and limit distribution like we do alcohol & tobacco & gambling...
the "black market" would disappear... because it would be readily available and the price would most likely fall... and the quality would be consistent.

this is what happened to alcohol after prohibition

[markm]

Hi wrzd,

I'm sorry - I can't help you with the use of marijuana for your particular pain. Hopefully others might have some good information for you.

I would, however, like to comment on issues raised by a couple of members, particularly in regards to the risk for lung cancer. I believe the risk is very low, simply due the amount of marijuana a person needs to smoke for medical purposes. The risks from smoking cigarettes are well known, but then most smokers use 20+ a day, and it is on that basis that most studies are done. If a person were to smoke 2 or 3 per day, the risk of that person contracting lung cancer would likely be marginally more than that of someone who doesn't smoke, and you only need to use very small amounts of MJ for medical reasons.

I would also add that the drugs you are taking now also have long term medical consequences, so if those drugs can be minimized or eliminated altogether, then in my opinion you would be better off healthwise overall.

Of course, you know the old saying about opinions....

I wish you well in your search for pain relief; and you are quite right to explore all options, whether you choose to use them or not.

Regards
Mark M

[Kathi49]

Hi wrzd,

If I am understanding your post correctly, you said you were pretty much pain free but having problems with nausea. I am like Mark, can't help much with MJ use. But am with Kira on the nausea. I also have cervical spine issues and I know the pain combined with the meds caused a lot of stomach issues for me. My best advice is to try the things Kira mentioned first. If it continues, I would definitely get with a Gastro doc. I did (and after 3 years) and found out I had Gastritis and GERD FROM the meds. The key, I believe, is to protect your stomach. My stomach is okay nowdays (every now and then a bit nauseated) and after taking Nexium for quite awhile. I no longer have to take Nexium. But I also try to take a probiotic daily; it seems to help a great deal.

[Mark N]

Markm, I agree with you for people that use marijuana for pain; the amount of smoking they do will not be as high a risk for cancer as regular smokers face. The key is how much is used and how long that use continues.

[Peter B]

I think its absolutely ridiculous that marijuana is still illegal. It is the least mind and body altering substance one can put it ones' system.

My two cents,

Pete

[mr wzrd]

Thanx again for all your compasionate responces.My greatest concern was in NOT getting myself or PCP in any legal trouble.The law states a dr/patient conversation is protected under the rights of free speach ,so we should be able to have a talk about any health related subject or new therorys out there.But like some have mentioed i dont want to upset the apple cart and put my pain management program at risk...Im not comfortable getting into details on my specific health problems,or treatment plans but i can say this has BEEN A LONG ROAD.I have fallen over 3 stories,had over 13 major car accidents,and blew my neck out building stone walls back in the 90ies.Im under the care of my PCP and a nuerologist and have seen the best surgens in the state.They tell me there is nothing they can do except keep me as comfortable as possible so i can go about my activities of daily living as much aS TOLLERATED....I dont want to have to take another pill for nausea,and another to stimulate my appatite.,as im just a small guy and the side effects seem to really affect me negitively,or have to pop more valium when i wake up,in the night, sreaming in pain and cant get back to sleep till the pills kick in...my first 2 dr guinna pigged me for years ,trying every new pill on the market[pharmacy reps give them for free]cant remember how many have now been taken off...Was told that MJ might be a legal alterative since i live in maine, just want someone to point me in direction that is legal and wont cause me or my dr to get in any trouble.Thanx again for all of your concern and opinions:)

[Peter B]

Wiz,
13 car accidents? Holy s@@t. Were you the driver in any of these? I've only been in 3 accidents in my life and I thought that was a lot. Then again I'm only 46 years old and have a while to go before I'm done driving. Still, It's been a few years since I've been in an accident.

I wish you all the luck in trying to fix your situation. Even though MJ is legal to a certain degree its still a slippery slope because its been Scheduled 1. That puts it in the same category as Heroin and Cocaine. In my opinion its absolutely ridiculous to consider Marijuana as having "No accepted medical use"

Again Wiz, good luck to you in your quests.

Pete

[mr wzrd]

Wiz,
13 car accidents? Holy s@@t. Were you the driver in any of these? I've only been in 3 accidents in my life and I thought that was a lot. Then again I'm only 46 years old and have a while to go before I'm done driving. Still, It's been a few years since I've been in an accident.

I wish you all the luck in trying to fix your situation. Even though MJ is legal to a certain degree its still a slippery slope because its been Scheduled 1. That puts it in the same category as Heroin and Cocaine. In my opinion its absolutely ridiculous to consider Marijuana as having "No accepted medical use"

Again Wiz, good luck to you in your quests.

PeteHey pete;Yes ,way to many car accidents.BUT I feel very blessed to have walked away with as few side affects as i have.[i can move].My DR says i have a great attitude on life:D.For all the injuries i have recieved..Hit a lumber truck head on[i was a passenger]and walked away....car hit me head on 45mph..walked away...Hit a tree at 65 mph[passenger] got a nose bleed..just a sample...All this stuff before i turned 30 years old.By the time 37 rolls around im in daily chronic pain,and can pretty much tell the weather by how much my joints hurt.
Now at 46 i feel as if i was rode hard and put away wet.:D but happy to still participate

[Kira]

About marijuana use and lung cancer risk:

Washington Post (news article): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html
Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers, and Prevention (study referred to in above news article): http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/10/1829)
European Respiratory Journal (study in a medical journal): http://erj.ersjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/31/2/280

About side effects of marijuana use:

LA Times (news article): http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/18/health/he-marijuanacon18
Canadian Medical Assoc Journal (review article in medical journal): http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/178/13/1685

[mr wzrd]

About marijuana use and lung cancer risk:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.htmlThe truth is out there:D thanx for your time :)

[Kira]

I also looked up Maine's law regarding medical MJ. The law limits medical MJ to treatment for a list of specific conditions.

The following is an excerpt from the US DOJ website (http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs/657/marijuan.htm)... but even pro-medical MJ websites give the same list of conditions (such as NORML http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4541&wtm_view=medical and Americans for Safe Access http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=2051).

In November 1999, Maine voters passed the Maine Medical Marijuana Initiative, Bill LD 2109, authorizing the legal use of marijuana for medical purposes. The law contains several restrictions limiting marijuana use to those suffering from specific, physician-diagnosed conditions. Those conditions include nausea, vomiting, or loss of appetite caused by AIDS or chemotherapy or radiation therapy used to treat cancer; glaucoma; epileptic seizures or seizures associated with other chronic diseases; or persistent muscle spasms normally associated with multiple sclerosis or other chronic diseases.

Notice that it DOES say you can use medical MJ for nausea/vomiting... but the nausea/vomiting has to be from either AIDS/AIDS treatment or cancer chemotherapy/radiation.

(FYI... the Americans for Safe Access website page goes into great detail about how to become a medical MJ patient in Maine... again, that link is http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=2051)

[Kira]

There is a medical MJ forum at Braintalk. http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=292

[lobelsteve]

One of the artilces Kira posted reveals:

Cannabis use and risk of lung cancer: a case–control study
S. Aldington1, M. Harwood1, B. et al

Accepted August 21, 2007

The aim of the present study was to determine the risk of lung cancer associated with cannabis smoking.

A case–control study of lung cancer in adults 55 yrs of age was conducted in eight district health boards in New Zealand. Cases were identified from the New Zealand Cancer Registry and hospital databases. Controls were randomly selected from the electoral roll, with frequency matching to cases in 5-yr age groups and district health boards. Interviewer-administered questionnaires were used to assess possible risk factors, including cannabis use. The relative risk of lung cancer associated with cannabis smoking was estimated by logistic regression.

In conclusion, the results of the present study indicate that long-term cannabis use increases the risk of lung cancer in young adults.


State laws regarding cannabis are irrelavent because the DEA is a Federal agency tasked with enforcement and also holds your docs registration to prescribe medications. Legalizing THC would not make me want to prescribe it, just not need to take action when it shows up on a UDS.

[Mark N]

mr wzrd, it is easy to understand not wanting to take another pill. I never thought I would take so many pills every day of my life like I am so your wanting to avoid more is understandable. It is a problem bringing up sensitive subjects with our doctors because we don't know their reaction and don't want to ruin the relationship we have built up. I hope it works out for you but I can't tell you what your doctor's reaction will be. I know that if he were the one managing my pain I wouldn't give him a reason to question if he should continue to give me pain medication. Is there another doctor you could talk to about this before letting your PM know about you need to use it?

[mr wzrd]

mr wzrd, it is easy to understand not wanting to take another pill. I never thought I would take so many pills every day of my life like I am so your wanting to avoid more is understandable. It is a problem bringing up sensitive subjects with our doctors because we don't know their reaction and don't want to ruin the relationship we have built up. I hope it works out for you but I can't tell you what your doctor's reaction will be. I know that if he were the one managing my pain I wouldn't give him a reason to question if he should continue to give me pain medication. Is there another doctor you could talk to about this before letting your PM know about you need to use it?Good morning all ,Another beatiful day in paradice..:).I had thought about bringing my records to another dr to avoid putting my PCP or my pmp in jeaperdy but didnt want to be percieved as dr shoping.I live in a very small town in maine,and dont want any trouble or noteriety....Chances are, ill just let it go as it [mj] seems to be more trouble then its worth....Thanx kira :) for all your helpfull info you provided for me....See you all around the site...Please excuse my spelling [ dysgraphia]

[Ragtop]

If I were you, rather than possibly jeopardizing the relationship
with your doc, just get some on your own, much easier, and
probably safer than getting blackballed if your doc doesn't like the idea.
I haven't heard of any dispensaries in Maine anyway, how would you get it legally?
That seems to be the biggest snag with the medical MJ.:cool:
My 2 cents
Rags

[NE1-4fun]

I use to think that marijuana was helping with my fibro pain because I would smoke a little to help me drift off to sleep. So, when I rolled a few to take with me on vacation, I truly expected to be able to get in some great rest and relaxation. The first day, I smoked some and took a short nap. I awoke sometime later and felt a bit tense so I lit up the one I started and finished it. Well relaxed, I headed out to dinner and a sunset with my hubby. About a hour later I was rolling my head from side to side trying to get the tension out of my neck and rid the pain that was crawling up the back of my neck and head. Went back to the hotel room, smoked a little more and went to bed. Got up the next day, and basically went through the same routine.

The third day we went fishing on our boat, I smoked some and began fishing. Within 10 minutes I felt the tension in my neck and shoulders again. It felt like my shoulder were up around my ears and I couldn't relax them. I smoked some more, everything began to relax and within 10-15 minutes the same routine, lots of tension in my upper body.

My husband asked if maybe the marijuana was causing the problem because I had not had these type of problems before. I usually only smoked a little to help me go to sleep. So I decided not to smoke any for the next two days. No problems- no tension in the shoulders, neck, head, I felt okay. The third day, I smoked again and within 20 minutes I could feel the tension starting in my shoulders and neck.

It is my belief that the chemicals in the marijuana caused over stimulation in the nervous system and led to my discomfort.

It think it worked great before when I was only using it after eating dinner, and just before going to bed, also I smoked very little before going to bed. I do believe it helped me to drift off to sleep easier. But after what happened on my vacation, I did notice that if I smoked too much before going to bed I woke the next day with some tension in my shoulders and neck area.

I stopped smoking altogether because I'm not sure what the chemicals used to grow the mj were doing to the rest of my nervous system.

I hope it helps others and I would start smoking again if I could legally grow my own. That way I'd know that no chemicals were being used on them. Perhaps grow them hydroponically.

Well, I use to post here under the name crazee in the fibromyalgia section. Just dropped in tonight because I couldn't sleep and decided to write. My best to all. I see tootsie and shadowrose40 are still here, some of the others also from way back when I was on 20 times a day, but I no longer have the energy to sit that long. I mostly lurk but found I had some info to contribute on this subject. Take care all.