Does God punish.....

[Cry Tears]

Is God going to pusnish anyone who may be homosexual because they are driven to this lifestyle?
I have a really hard time beleiving He would....here's why.
What about a person who is born with ambiguous genitles...meaning they are neither male or female till many detailed genetic studies are finished. I've read its about 1 out of a thousand births.
And to what extent are some born with this type of medical mystery?
Could being homosexual being born the wrong sex in the first place?
I don't mean to hurt anyones feelings...its just something I've wondered.
I'm from a mainstream somewhat conservative religion....I'm glad my church has taken a stand to not judge and to accept any person that they are.
I'm just glad I dont have this burden...And I'm glad I don't have to judge anyone...leave this up to God.
My husband and I have had numerous freindships with gay men because of my husbands work during college...he used to repair organs for Baldwin. And I took piano lessons from them.
A lot of gay men are very talanted musically.
We shared many holiday meals with one gay couple and enjoyed their honest freindship. They were the most loving and giving people we've met.
My inlaws were down right furious that we could have such freindship.
They would chastise us anytime they heard we had spent time with them.
While they enjoyed a 20+ year freindship with one of their church chior directors...a man who was very revered in their church.
Now this was a man to be freinds with!
Imagine the look on my inlaws faces when the 6 0'clock news showed this man being handcuffed at the local mall for molesting boys in the public bathrooms! A practice he'd been doing for years till this sting operation.
This shut my inlaws up for good!
Cheryl

[graymalkin]

Is God going to pusnish anyone who may be homosexual because they are driven to this lifestyle?

The short answer to this question is: No.

However, I'd add that being gay/queer is not a matter of being "driven" to what is, by implication, a regrettable lifestyle. It's simply who we are, and neither bad nor good in and of itself. As with all other human beings, it's how we play the hand we're dealt that makes us good people...or not.

That's my take on it, anyway.

graymalkin

[ian]

Hi
I agree with graymalkin god doesn't punish u coz u are homosexual .. god may not like the sin but he loves the sinner no matter what

[Trudi]

When it comes to the subject of homosexuality, our religious institutions remind me of the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's. The position of each church or synagogue was so varied it was hard to believe that we were reading from the same Bible or believing in the same God. Scriptures seemed to support segregation on one side and social justice on the other.

During my teenage years, I remember wondering why my church did more to impede the civil rights movement than to take a courageous stand on its behalf. We were told from the pulpit that God never intended on the mixing of the races. The idea of black people eating in a public restaurant, riding in the front of the bus, or attending the same high school was unthinkable. In retrospect, the thought of denying any of God's children of that right is unconscionable.

Many churches and religious groups quote scriptures that denounce homosexuality. Yet the same scriptures that equally condemn divorce are totally ignored. Because of the shame and embarrassment associated with homosexuality, most of us allow this hypocrisy to go unchallenged.

There are seven deadly sins in the Bible: Pride, Lust, Gluttony, Anger, Sloth, Envy, and Greed. Homosexuality is not among them. Why not?

Jesus walked hundreds of miles and spoke to thousands of people. Because he surrounded himself with social outcasts, he must have met what we today consider gay and lesbian people. Yet He said nothing about homosexuality. Why not?

If homosexuality were so sinful, wouldn't Jesus have either addressed it or condemned it?

God's love and acceptance is far greater than any of us can ever imagine and is never limited by the thoughts of man. I have no magic answer why God created some of His children gay. I do know that He does not withhold His love from them anymore than He did His black children, even though some of His white children thought He should.

Taken from http://familyacceptance.org/home.html

also read A Letter to Louise (http://www.godmademegay.com/Letter.htm) This is very long but it questions people's interpretations of The Bible regarding Homosexuality.

[Starfire]

God punishes... not for homosexuality...

but there are a lot of people who play god and punish homosexuality...

and God punishes people who play god...

[Maxs9th]

Wow...I like your answer Starfire...sometimes I wonder why this piece of the forum exists...it seems that rather than providing suppport it is a place where people have to consistently answer questions from people who are not GLBT.

Oh well. Maybe we can change that. I read this thread when it was first posted and couldn't decide if answering or not answering was the best bet.

Crytears: I don't feel "driven" to this lifestyle - for me it isn't a lifestyle...it is just another characteristic of who I am like having brown eyes. I don't feel "burdened" by it except when constantly encountering ignorance. It is great that your church recognizes that all people are different and worthy of love. It is amazing to me that people who espouse "christian values" are consistently judgemental...My response to judgemental people comes from the one they so often quote..."take the plank out of your own eye before you talk about the splinter in mine...." I think it is good that you are asking questions and not blindly following the pack.
Gabrielle

[graymalkin]

...sometimes I wonder why this piece of the forum exists...it seems that rather than providing suppport it is a place where people have to consistently answer questions from people who are not GLBT.

I think I can answer that one. ;)

The LGBT forum exists because I asked for one, quite a while ago on the old BT. Many people chimed in on the request thread, one of the mods went to bat for us, and eventually John Lester created the forum.

Of course it was intended for mutual support, particularly in the area of how we deal with the medical community (and how it deals with us). But we've always said that questions and comments from straight BT folk are welcome, as long as they're respectful. The mods have been quick to deal with disrespect the few times it's surfaced.

I, for one, don't mind the questions. Answering them is a chance to do a little consciousness-raising. It'd be nice if more of the LGBT members actually made use of the forum, though. :cool:

graymalkin

[Maxs9th]

I don't mind the questions either, I just wish like you that more forum members used the forum for medical support. I know that it has taken me 2 years to utilize this forum at all because I felt like there was an overall tone of intolerance at BTand I was afraid to "come out!". I decided that would only change for me when I started using this place as well as the Myasthenia Gravis forum for support.

I am glad that you asked for the forum and appreciate knowing that I am not the only one of us with an illness!
Gabrielle

[graymalkin]

I've noticed an overall repressive effect at several MS boards, when it comes to LGBT folk. While I haven't seen much outright hostility, there's something that causes us to be "vewy, vewy quiet" (channeling Elmer Fudd here). When I originally asked for the forum, it was in response to a post by a woman on the MS forum who referred to medical problems her partner was having, and it was clear (but not spoken) that the partner was a woman also.

At that point, it hit me that we rarely identify ourselves on these boards, don't talk in any detail about our spouses/SOs the way the straight members sometimes do, etc. Just going by the percentages, there have to be more of us than is apparent. So...why not ask for the creation of a hospitable place just for us, and hope that over time, maybe a spirit of openness and acceptance will begin to permeate the whole board? We can hope, can't we?

graymalkin

[The Dude]

I dont think he would care really.....

After all,Jesus didnt ever say you could only love certain people!!

Its what feels right to YOU that matters :)

[AncientWolf]

I've noticed an overall repressive effect at several MS boards, when it comes to LGBT folk. While I haven't seen much outright hostility, there's something that causes us to be "vewy, vewy quiet" (channeling Elmer Fudd here). When I originally asked for the forum, it was in response to a post by a woman on the MS forum who referred to medical problems her partner was having, and it was clear (but not spoken) that the partner was a woman also.

At that point, it hit me that we rarely identify ourselves on these boards, don't talk in any detail about our spouses/SOs the way the straight members sometimes do, etc. Just going by the percentages, there have to be more of us than is apparent. So...why not ask for the creation of a hospitable place just for us, and hope that over time, maybe a spirit of openness and acceptance will begin to permeate the whole board? We can hope, can't we?

graymalkin


Yeap, I recall when you requested this forum. I, of course, was excited that you brought the idea up and am glad it came to being....of course I supported the idea openly in the thread too. Many of us are greatful to you for that gray.

I came out of the proverbial closet when I was 19. I'm 33 now. I can't put myself back into the closet. Therefore, I've never had a problem saying openly "my boyfriend" (though I'm single now) rather than "my significant other" or some other gender neuter term. I haven't ran into any problems with others on the board because I'm gay, but I am glad this forum is here to help deal with the issues (doctors, etc) that plague those of us who are lgb and/or t or q, and who have neurological problems. I think it's also another cool forum to get to know people with similar issues.

As to the subject at hand, I don't mind the questions at all. In fact, I wholeheartedly welcome them. One of the best ways we learn is by asking questions. I'd MUCH rather have somebody ask me what might to some appear to be a stupid question than to judge me based on their assumptions without bothering to ask.

Namaste,

Daniel

[graymalkin]

Oops! :o

Didn't mean to toot my own horn, Daniel. The founding of this forum was very much a group effort; I just happened to be the one who started the request thread.

It just seemed appropriate to give a little history for those who may not have been around at the beginning.

gray

[The Dude]

Not to worry my friend :)

[AncientWolf]

Oops! :o

Didn't mean to toot my own horn, Daniel. The founding of this forum was very much a group effort; I just happened to be the one who started the request thread.

It just seemed appropriate to give a little history for those who may not have been around at the beginning.

gray


No worries at all. Toot away! I am very glad you initiated the discussion for this forum. :)

Namaste,

Daniel

[Cry Tears]

But it seems I've stepped on a few toes here??? Or maybe I misread some of you....???
Was I wrong in posting here because I'm straight and posted a comment/questions...????
Maybe I have a reason to want to "ask/talk" about this because of a personal reason.
You may never know...maybe I have a child who is gay!
I dont wish to say if I do or don't.
I do not pass judgment in any way shape or form here....I can't seem to move mountains let alone walk on water!
I don't think God punishes for the way we are made or created.
God never says "oooops". But I know some people do pass judgement.
My questions was to put a little thought into this....what about people who are born ambiguous???
How could they judge this?

I know many gay people who struggle terribly.
I've seen one of my daughters classmates....a very talanted bagpiper. Very, very nice boy.
Tender hearted, sweet, respectful....a true joy to everyone who knew him.
His staunch "Christian" folks disowned him after his coming out of the closet when he turned 18.
This broke his heart and he committed suicide.
I'd have given anything to have such a wonderful son....and would have gladly accepted him no matter what.
I asked God...why did he allow those horrid parants to be allowed the priveledge of having birthed such a wonderful son...only to disown him because of who he was?!?!?
It broke my heart to see how wicked his parents acted because I suffered infertility and couldn't have another child after my only son was born.
If only his parents would have accepted him for who he was....who he was created to be by God himself.
Now he's gone! What a shame.
But there's probably a few staunch Christians saying.....good! Hmmmm. Wonder what God thinks?
Blessings to all.
Cheryl
PS....we did adopt 2 older girls...but its never the same as having your own creation with your loved one.

[graymalkin]

No, you haven't offended or stepped on any toes, Cheryl. I think you did misread us. :)

Although answering general questions from straight people about gay/queerness isn't the purpose of this forum, we knew there would be some and I don't think anyone minds.

I'm sorry to hear about the young man who was disowned by his parents and committed suicide. That sort of thing happens all too often, and it's one of the reasons why PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) exists...to help parents who are struggling with accepting their LGBT children. I wish the parents of that kid could have attended a PFLAG meeting or two.

Your concern is clear, and it's much appreciated.

graymalkin

[AncientWolf]

No, you haven't offended or stepped on any toes, Cheryl. I think you did misread us. :)

Although answering general questions from straight people about gay/queerness isn't the purpose of this forum, we knew there would be some and I don't think anyone minds.

I'm sorry to hear about the young man who was disowned by his parents and committed suicide. That sort of thing happens all too often, and it's one of the reasons why PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) exists...to help parents who are struggling with accepting their LGBT children. I wish the parents of that kid could have attended a PFLAG meeting or two.

Your concern is clear, and it's much appreciated.

graymalkin


Just adding my echo of agreement with gray.


namaste,

Daniel

[Cry Tears]

OK...I'm glad we're on the same page....I do detest the word "queer". My father used to call my son this because he wore glasses and played the piano starting at age 3...he's a musical prodegy...but always made fun of.
He began playing the full pipe organ when he was just 10. For 8th grade graduation he played "pomp and circumstance" with full flare....brought down the house! I was proud of him. When he plays music you can feel every note he plays...but because of terrible teasing and taunting being labeled a "***" by my father and others....he quit playing publicly. Its sad...but he didnt ask for any of this....he was just always small and timid in stature and nature. He was very, very respectful and tender hearted....would cry when he knew a tiny creature was suffering.
Now he's a big guy...very sucessful and wealthy....funny how the tide has turned...those who called him a *** are enveious of his good "luck".
Blessings, cheryl

[graymalkin]

The word "queer" used to be uniformly considered a slur, but in recent years it's become the preferred term among many younger LGBT people (and some older ones, including me).

The reason for the change is that "gay" properly refers only to homosexual men, not lesbians, bisexuals, transfolk, etc. "Queer" is seen as a blanket term, as is LGBT/GLBT.

There isn't a consensus among the LGBT community about this, though, so which term to use is a matter of personal preference. Respect (or lack thereof) comes through in the tone and content of your speech, regardless of the word you use to describe us, IMO.

graymalkin

[Jennybean]

I have a gay friend with a particularly unique perspective on the aspect of homosexuality:

"Homosexuality is an undiscovered choice that you are born with, yet a choice with which you have no control over."

It is not a disease or disorder in which we should pity, sympathize, or empathize. It is a matter of individuality.

[Jennybean]

The word "queer" used to be uniformly considered a slur, but in recent years it's become the preferred term among many younger LGBT people (and some older ones, including me).

The reason for the change is that "gay" properly refers only to homosexual men, not lesbians, bisexuals, transfolk, etc. "Queer" is seen as a blanket term, as is LGBT/GLBT.

There isn't a consensus among the LGBT community about this, though, so which term to use is a matter of personal preference. Respect (or lack thereof) comes through in the tone and content of your speech, regardless of the word you use to describe us, IMO.

graymalkin


The original definition of the word 'queer' is an adjective meaning odd or different. My guess is that this word began being used to describe LGBTs because the subject itself made a large portion of the population uncomfortable because they viewed particular lifestyle as odd and different. They would much rather keep it hidden away "in the closet" with the skeletons and other areas of life they did not wish to address. How does that old saying go? "You fear (or hate) what you don't understand".

[graymalkin]

You're right about the original meaning of "queer," Jennifer. :)

Here's more information, for anyone who's interested, on current usage within the LGBT community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer

graymalkin

[spiritwomyn]

God/Spirit created and loves, enjoys and blesses its creation. "God is no respector of persons" " Love thy neighbor as thy self" "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" "Do not be concerned with what you eat or wear, (outer things)." " Know ye not that ye are Gods, and children of the most high?" "Love the lord with all thy heart, soul and mind" because that is all that matters to God, its all that should matter to us.

As a near death survivor and a mother of a transgender child, I know judgement comes only from Man. The only one who will punish you is you, so stop caring what others think. Keep you eyes on your own character and how you treat others. Get rid of guilt. God will go on being God regardless of who or what we are.

It is not my job to judge anothers life, but to love them in their living of it.

Spiritwomyn

[mickeysblog]

Crytears,
God will wipe them away. There is a higher power without a doubt. We all have a right to believe in whatever gets us towards tomorrow. God does not take lives, punish others, give a young child diseases or pain. God simply IS. If I may Cry,
Find the center. Look inside yourself and find center. It is when we try to balance that we suffer. Balance is a teeter tauter going up and down with equal weight making it work. And it is constant work Baby.
Center
There is nothing in the Bible about being Homophobic.

if you wish, look at the link below. Through the eyes of a child. I have been there, went to the light for three days. It was amazing, learning, beautiful. No words, no colors, nothing here can compare. They brought me back, but my memories stay.
here is a link that you may wish to visit. Let me know what you this
No matter what the belief, we find peace within it, within ourselves. But it is within that so many allow the Neg. to empty the soul. Try this link, perhaps this will help

http://tinyurl.com/yxewot

[AncientWolf]

When I was a teenager, I spent many nights (every night for a couple years) awake crying in prayer to the God I was raised with (Christian, Baptist) to make me attracted to females sexually and to take away my feelings towards other boys and men. No matter how hard I tried or cried he never did. At that point I wanted to be a minister and dedicate my life to that God. I mean no offense to anyone else's beliefs, but I believe I was created gay and meant to be gay. I don't follow that God anymore, but my belief about being gay is the same. It is who I am. I doubt any deity would create someone one way and then tell them it's wrong and sinful to be that way. I think it was man's influence that made homosexuality "bad" in the eyes of religion. That's just my opinion, and again I mean no offense to anyone who believes differently.

Namaste,

Daniel

[illusion129]

Just thought I would chime in...as it has been a while since I've visited this forum.

A quick overview of how I feel about homosexuality...

I've always "known" I was gay. As far back as I can remember I was attracted to the male physique. Never did I look at a female and say, "Wow, that's hot," because I never felt that way.

Cheryl, growing up I was called names all the time because of my high-pitched voice and my feminine ways. It did bother me for quite some time but when I finally stood up and proclaimed my openness to homosexuality, people stopped. Just dead stopped. I guess it was because they could cause me no more misery and they saw this...so, causing no more misery for me = no more fun for them so everything stopped.

I do not believe that a higher power that -created- us the way we are is going to punish us. Wouldn't that be redundant? Molding something one way and then cursing it for being that way? Just think about it.

And as far as people saying it's a lifestyle we choose...yeah right! As I said, I've always "known" I was different. I didn't know exactly the "how" but I did know. Do I think I could make myself be "straight"? No. Do I think believe how I live my life is wrong? No. I'm just as good of a person as anyone.

Gray - KUDOS for making an effort in seeing that a "queer" forum was created. I do find comfort in knowing there is one place I can come and chat with -like- people about medical issues/problems/etc. Granted I usually spend all my time in the Chronic Pain forum, but just knowing there are more homos on here to chat with is nice to know. Thanks very much!!

[The Pogue]

Those who believe create a God to suit their needs, who may be punishing or accepting.

Sexuality is normal and healthy. Any sexual relationship based on love and mutual respect between adults is pleasing to my God.