Coley got his first report card (ever)

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

We also had our first parent teacher conference this year.

I don't know what I was expecting...but I've got such mixed emotions...course the 'other' things going on with me lately certainly don't help...

So, the main theme...problems with attention, focus and following direction.

UGH!

I know I wasn't expecting those to dissappear...so why did it feel like a punch in the gut?

I dunno...I guess what added to it was that he didn't get any 'consistent' marks...the teacher said most of the kids had 'developing' but there were some items that thought, or hoped, I guess, that he was doing well, perhaps even better than the others.

And there are some, just not items that show up on the report card. I can't remember the items (she's redoing it for us because not all the information came through the 'cabon') but there were things that I thuohgt he was doing at/above level...like self help, ya know...

She showed us a sentence Coley wrote...I can't believe he wrote a SENTENCE! :D And drew a picture to match it. I don't have that paper in front of me, but it was something to the effect of "William is my friend." It definately looked like kid letters, the words were smooshed together, the "m" looked more like an "s" on it's side with an extra hump, and one letter I think the "r" was backwards. BUT HE WROTE A SENTENCE. :D Most of the other kids weren't able to do this. But on the flip side of things, he can't complete a craft or figure out how to start most activities.

The teacher has put him up front to insure that he 'hears' instructions...but often that's not enough.

:(

His full psych test (with the dev ped/psych) is scheduled for 12/1 & 12/3...can you believe how long this has taken? And his report should be completed by mid-Jan.

Also, the non-compliance stuff is simmering, so we too are seeing the focus/attention/processing as the 'larger' issue now...it's been there all along, but with the defiance issues lessoning...it's just not our biggest now, ya know...

One hurdle at a time I guess...

I don't want to jump the gun, I want to wait for the results of the assessment, but I'm feeling the urge to look into ADHD exercises or something...things to help improve focus kinda stuff...

I'm rambling now...

[peglem]

Just curious if Coley has sensory issues? The reason I ask is that I observed that most kids with attention problems was that they could not look and listen at the same time. They could process one or the other...you see how this could cause a lot of confusion, as the teacher is usually pesenting info visually and auditorily at the same time...talking about the visual.

Congrats on the sentence writing. That is a great Kinder accomplishment...even with all the little "dings" you talked about. Those are all things that will be corrected with more experience and practice.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Thanks Pegs! Coming from you, a teacher, it does feel tons better!

I DO know he's doing well...I mean crikie, from where we were I shouldn't feel glum...but somehow...maybe it's just everything else, my sister, the cat, holiday stress...and I know that next quarter he's going to get better marks. I saw the list of things, and most of them he's been doing for a long time...like identifying colors & shapes...he knew a hexagon at 3 for pete's sake.

I've already traded e-mails with Dr. M, we'll be talking about things we can do on the 1st. I'm sure he'll want to get all the results before doing anything major, but at least we can begin with something.

Would you mind taking a look at their website and giving me your opinion. I'm going to look at it myself, after I clean the cat box for the gazillionth time:rolleyes:.

As far as sensory stuff goes...he's never been evaluated, and honestly this is one thing that has sorta come up, then faded away, looked like it was possible, then no definately not...kinda leading me to believe (in retrospect) it's like some of those other 'louder' things that come & go with his over exposure.

Ms. R (his teacher) did suggest that she 'review' with Coley independently without the distractions of the other 20 kids sitting around him to see if that would help him...which leads me to believe that she might think all the noise and movements of the others might be distracting to him. Is that sensory or ADHD-ish...or is this a spot where they meld, kinda...

Auditory Processing has also been something that we have often wondered about, but then like the sensory stuff....

He is mainly a visual learner. I think like most of our kids...he observes, calculates, then moves. To give you an idea of how 'commited' he is to this though, he tells us that he 'knows how to swim' because he watches others. He doesn't want the lessons for this reason. So we told him that his body needs the practice. That his mind knows what his arms & legs need to do, by watching, but that his legs and arms need the practice working together...NOPE! Not according to him. And this from the kid that decided at 7pm (at age 4) that he wanted his training wheels off, and was racing down the street at 7:05 without them. It's hard to argue. He clearly IS a visual learner.

On the auditory side, confusing things, is the figgin WAX! Which has been giving him problems lately. Thank god, he's got an appointment (follow-up to the tube (re)placements) next tues. I'll ask his ENT to clean his ears out. It's frustrating though, he won't recommend anything that I can use at home to keep them clean...GRRR! I'll ask again!

He's had a lot of candy lately...halloween & all. He's done mostly well...and really if his ears are plugged and his attention is off (minimally from that)...that is a HUGE improvement from what would have happened last year with a candy a day for 3 weeks, ya know...but if his hearing is gurgled lately, that could be the whole of it too... but we have actually been talking about how dramatic & emotional he's been lately...so prior to the meeting we had already decided to dump the remaining candy...I should probably bump up his s.boulardii too.

Anyhow, here's the site if you want to check out the programs: http://www.cfpsych.org/tony/OurServices.html

I'm going on & on as I procrastonate...NOT looking forward to cleaning that dam box! Gotta call the vet today too...ugh...

Thanks again Pegs!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Coley just got home, I opened up his backpack, and look what was looking back at me:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/KJ2005/K-Pic.jpg

That made my day! :D

[GinaMarie]

Oh My GOODNESS!! I WANT one of those!! That is ADORABLE!!!!! I LOVE that picture!!

About his conference, He sounds a lot like Noah attention wise.. Noah has a lot of attention problems and his teacher was telling me at his conference that she feels he has anxiety problems. :confused: She said he constantly is asking or confirming what she says. Like if she says do page 42 problems 1 - 15. Noah will ask is that all of 1 thru 15? YES Noah... He'll say On pg 42? YES Noah. Then he'll say like Not odds? No Noah All of them.. and he will do this all the time with everything. He is constantly tapping or moving and constantly needing redirection. He needs or works better in small groups than in the whole class of 25 but still needs redirecting. I even tell the teachers the FIRST day of school that Noah NEEDS to sit in the FRONT row MIDDLE for his attention and vision and yet some teaches will put him in the middle or back.. :mad::rolleyes:

Noah is on Vyvanse for his ADHD and he is like this WITH the meds.. Let me tell you.. lol Last yr.. His teacher would EMAIL me by 10 am or earlier if he forgot to take his med.. She would email me and say "Gina, Did Noah forget to take his med?" They know IMMEDIATLY if he doesnt have his med!!

ALSO I learned from our pulmonologist that if they have sleep apnea or sleep problems that can also cause ADHD like symptoms. Noah is having a sleep study on Dec 5th. I think he has some sleep apnea.

I hope this helps some.

CONGRATS on his sentence writing!! Noah DIDNT do that in Kindr.

HUGS,
GM

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Thanks Gina! :D

About sleep...I definately notice a HUGE difference in him, all around when sleep is poor. Course tired/irritable, course poor focus...like all of us...but spacy even...he can be looking me dead in the face/eyes and still not comprehend a sentence, just like you've described with Noah. I think it's good though that Noah is asking questions. Coley doesn't do that.

In the past when I could tell he was out in left field somewhere I would ask if he understood or whatever...and often he'd confirm my suspicions by saying "I don't remember" or "What I didn't hear you"

Recently using the parenting class techniques one big thing that has helped there, and you may want to try with Noah, is just asking him to repeat directions every-single-time. Firstly in a way that doesn't imply that you are angry, like often we do out of frustration "DO YOU UNDERSTAND" ...Not like that...like

"Noah, please repeat what you are to do" or
"Noah, what is the first thing you are going to do, and after that", etc.

And this may be a good technique for the teacher as well. To just ask the students to repeat the task assigned. Perhaps calling on Noah with higher frequency, but even if she doesn't Noah will hear it repeated a second time.

Having him repeat it does 2 things, first saying it obviously makes it clear to you (and him) that he's understood the instructions/saying it solidifies it in his mind more. And also gets him in the habit of trying harder to focus, because he knows there's going to be a pop quiz right after...I think the later is the biggest help for kids like Noah & Coley.

It will also help you in another way too...hearing his understanding based on how you present it, may give you better perspective on how Noah takes in/processes information. Then you can get better at delivering it so that he will need less assistance, ya know.

I'm so scared of meds GM...I don't know if it will come up during the course of this evaluation, his IEP is February and it's also a full assessment year too. I'm a little nervous about all of that. Has anyone ever talked about activities or exercises, little at home things maybe, that bolster these skills? I guess I should also wonder about what are hindering these skills too...I'm sure TV is a big culpret, but are there other things we should keep to a minimum?

KJ

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Gina check this out: http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/05/07/learning_center_touts_exercise_for_adhd/

I'm going to look for more! But this is exactly what I didn't want to do...crazy research before his appointment 12/1...but here we go anyway!:rolleyes:

This is interesting: http://www.biof.com/onlinestore/learningbreakthrough/what_is_the_program.asp

I need to stop right now, but here's my question...why can't we do homemade stuff...why would we have to pay...can't we figure out what would 'exercise' these connections ourselves...I'm very suspicious of people trying to make a buck. The idea makes some sense, but what's the big hairy secret...ya know? So I'm thinking these are probably not constructive exercises...sigh!

[GinaMarie]

That sounded interesting but when I looked up DORE there were lots of links to it and a lot were not to good.

Here is one.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dore_(dyslexia_treatment)

THO I admit exercise is good for them because it does help the hyperness and gets them to help calm and can help with the focus part I THINK more.

We dont have TV here at my house. Tho we have computer (they have theirs and I have mine so I dont have to compete :p ) and I try not to let them stay on it to much and I monitor what they see on it.

I know I heard that caffeine is a good one to help with ADHD. They say you can tell a true ADHD kid when you give them caffeine like black coffee and it CALMS them instead of hypes them. Because just like ritalin being a stimulant, so is caffeine. And the stimulant actually slows the ADHD persons brain down because it's already in overdrive.

My friends son will drink those super high energy drinks and will be asleep in like 15 minutes. They almost knock him out. They also dont hype up my older boys. I dont like my younger ones to have them.

Adam used to be in Therapy with like spinning, balancing and things like that.. We had to stop because of transportation.. When I had Noah with me she used to let Noah do it also because she noticed Noah had some delays also tho we didnt have a Rx for him but I had him with me.. I would love to put them back in that WHEN I get a car and can afford the gas into town.
Adam LOVED it. He liked the spinning most I think. Tho he didnt really like sharing with his brother. :rolleyes:

GM

[AKF]

I saw the list of things, and most of them he's been doing for a long time...like identifying colors & shapes...he knew a hexagon at 3 for pete's sake.


When Keith was in kindergarten, he missed the oval ( I had taught him that it was an ellipse) and the diamond ( I had taught him rhombus). As far as colors were concerned, he could name all the basics and also things like olive and teal. But he couldn't stay on task and he couldn't tell me what he'd had for breakfast. Not that he didn't remember, he just couldn't answer wh questions.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

That sounds about the same for us. The teachers say "acedemically they don't need to worry about Coley, but behaviorally...."

So what has helped the most with Kieth? And what has helped the least?

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Coley's at his first of the 2 clinical evaluation sessions this morning with DH. The other is Wed.

The school did their 3 year full eval and we got the reports last week. I'm really weirded out by them, and now pretty nervous about the clinical evaluations.

I'm not sure why I'm so weirded out, kinda the same as with his report card.

Oh, btw, here are the items that he got 'developing' for:
Adjusts to school situations
Interacts well with peers in small groups
Interacts well with peers in large groups
Is self-directive in intiating an activity
Interacts well with Adults
Obeys promptly
Shares & takes turns

I totally don't want to argue with the teacher or anything, and I'm questioning my reality too...but some of these things I think he's doing really well with...like interacting with adults...c'mon! So I just don't know what to think!

And the comment here it is: "Coley is working on improving his behavior in class. When he really tries he can stay on task. He finds it difficult to follow directions."

I think this was the punch in the gut, but this is really right on target with what we see too...so why is this bothering me so much?

UGH! So on to the evaluation...

Occupational Therapy:
Visual Motor integration: below average
Motor free visual perception test: below average
Motor Profeciancy (visual motor control): above average

This also has me scratching my head. I know he has a little trouble holding a pen correctly on a consistent basis...but it doesn't stop him from accomplishing anything. AND he is inconsistent with other tools too, like scissors and hand tools...but he accomplishes whatever task he sets his mind to. Of course if we comment on his 'grip' he corrects, and obviously has an easier time...like his writing is clearer holding a pen correctly, etc. He's only 5.5 though...what's the big deal, I mean really. I am not thinking this is a concern...am I wrong??? I guess it could be that he 'forgets' to hold it correctly or something...which I guess, ya...but I think it's more that he likes to do things HIS way...maybe I'm wrong...

And YIKES, his psychological assessment...

This is long, so I'll just give you the highlights...most of his marks were below average or average. With one exception, block design: above average.

Even his vocab came out below average...now I know that's not a good indicator...his vocabulary is definately above average. Everyone comments on how he talks like a 14 year old. Even kids around his age, 6, 7, 8 ask him what words mean that he uses...

Most kids perform differently in/out of their 'comfort zone' right? Should this be a concern? Or does the test just bite? I dunno know what to think?

And then we get to stuff like Behavioral Symptom Index: "at-risk." And hyperactivity: 'clinically significant"

That makes sense. It $ucks, but it's what I expected. I can't agree with select parts though, can I? UGH! I'm finding myself trying to disregard some, why?

I keep telling myself, overall this is good...we've come SO far...no it's not perfect, we've got a ways to go...we can do this, just need the right tools and the time, etc. etc.

Why do I feel so defeated?

And why is this making ME feel terrible? This is just another measurement of where we are...means nothing, well not nothing, but it's just a 'temperature' ...so to speak...how much further do we have, right?

Part of me just wants to know what I can do, I think, feeling a little lost or something, where do we go from here, and not having the slightest clue...but it's more than that too...I just don't know how to describe it...what does this all mean?

We have our review meeting scheduled for the 9th, next Tuesday morning...

I have the hardest time keeping him on task...I think that's what bugging me the most...it feels so impossible to manage or compensate for.

[peglem]

"Coley is working on improving his behavior in class. When he really tries he can stay on task. He finds it difficult to follow directions."


This comment really bothered me. Maybe I'm being nitpicky. Maybe its because the teacher was trying to say this in PC positivity, but it implies that when he doesn't stay on task its because he isn't trying...the ol' "if he would only apply himself" all dressed up. I wonder how much of his "really trying" depends on how much the teacher is reminding him to stay on task. So, is that a comment on how prompt dependant he is? Have they identified why he has trouble following directions? I mean is it impulsivity? Like he gets engaged in the first part before he's heard the entire instuction? Or is it more that he's having difficulty keeping the sequence straight? I think it makes a difference because what I'd be trying to do here is teach Coley strategies to compensate which would require the right tools.

You gave us alot to chew on here...but, make sure you ask questions on the things that you're uncertain about. How was he assessed on those things you do not think are acurrate? Particularly, on vocabulary, there is a difference between Coley supplying the words or choosing the words from an array. Here's what I mean: Especially with ADHD kids I've found that if I point to the letters/numbers/pictures and ask them to identify it they do worse than if I name the letter/number/picture and they have to find it from a group. It has something to do with the brain's filing system and recall-they have trouble locating the verbal label for things (maybe thinking in pictures, instead?) But, if the label is supplied, they can easily call up the symbol or picture.

The other thing that you should know is how the school plans to use the information. Why was he tested and what will they do with the information. And yes, this is definitely just a snapshot of a moment in time. Like if you take a picture of Coley after he's been playing in the mud- its just how he looked at that moment and you wouldn't want to make judgements about how Coley always looks based on that picture. So, context is important. But, if there is something you think Coley needs education wise- use the results to your advantage (and really, his advantage)

Edited to add: I'm thinking his staying on task is more a function of how interesting, exciting, and valuable he finds the task than just a matter of him trying.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Yes Pegs, I think that gets better at what irked me about that comment too...thing that really hurt was that it was the only clear thing that came through the carbons when we first got it, it was the whole of my report...

I'd love to talk to you in more detail about all this...can we touch base off line?

The school assessment is the tri-annual assessment. I suspect it's done to figure out what services he needs or what needs to be modified...I DO trust the school...but our meeting next week will tell more, ya know.

Although I trust the school, hearing all the horror stories prompts me to keep his clinical assessments going too. They just happen to overlap this year. I feel much better about the reliability there...plus I know they will make recommendations that I will be able to assist with.

ANyhow, gotta fly right now...can we have a better conversation about this after Coley completes his assessment Wed? I probably won't have any results then, but perhaps some tips to pursue or something...

KJ

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Sorry I had to cut my last reply short...they had just gotten in...

We've got some forms to complete, and one for the teacher to do as well.

DH & I will be going to the second session together, afterwhich Dr. M said we could chat a little about all the info that we have gotten recently. My basic question is what sorts of things I can be doing with him to stregthen his, let's say 'listening skills'... I suspect he'll have a better idea of what I mean by that after his testing is complete.

This is likely too simplistic, but I'm thinking something like twister...it's supposed to be fast, you've got to listen, and watch for the next instruction, and then react physically in a quick manner, eventually using lots of balance too...would this frustrate him? Not sure, would it help, not sure...but there must be little things that I could do to help him 'sharpen his tools', don't you think?

Any thoughts, ideas, concerns????

So, is that a comment on how prompt dependant he is? Have they identified why he has trouble following directions? I mean is it impulsivity? Like he gets engaged in the first part before he's heard the entire instuction? Or is it more that he's having difficulty keeping the sequence straight? I think it makes a difference because what I'd be trying to do here is teach Coley strategies to compensate which would require the right tools.


This is a GREAT question Pegs...and a perfect example of why I'd like to hash things out a bit with you...

Here's what I can tell you...reminding him, eventually turns into nagging, and then raised voices around here. I know, I know...terrible skills on my part. I just don't know how to manage when I'm juggling a toddler, dinner and the house on top of needing him to take his muddy shoes off...it's insane.

But even when I keep my patience in check, reminding him almost removes his 'sense of responsibility' or something. If he's in a good place and I give him a general kinda blank check..."get ready for school"...it's amazing he'll keep going and going, and he's proud of himself at every step...but when he's not in a good place and I know we need to do little steps at a time, take your PJs off, bottoms first, now socks, put them in the laundry...on & on...all while trying to keep him from getting distracted by every little thing...and the clock is ticking & ticking...frustration builds, the bus eventually is going to get here and time is running out...so that's MY experience.

Prompt dependant? ...just dependant sometimes, I'd say...to just keep him on task.

Let's see, getting stuck on the first part...hmmmmm...not sure...I have seen him get his own ideas and refuse to budge. Like this past weekend...

"Coley we're going to decorate for Christmas. First we are going to pick up a little and rearrange some things so that we can bring stuff up from the basement..."

Well from there it became a battle of wills...he wanted to start cutting out snowflakes for the windows and lots of other ideas...

DH & I did begin doing what we needed to do, and he eventually joined in, but all along asking the same question over & over...when are we going to bring the tree up...course he didn't 'hear' that we needed to make a spot for it, or that we needed to move things out of the way to have the room to assemble it...

So perhaps he does get stuck on the first part...how do I help him with that?

Interesting about the vocabulary...so we aren't talking about just plain old usage in everyday speaking?

Your explanation reminded me of 2 particular testing items that bugged me...

The first was with EI...I don't know the exact test, or his age...maybe about 2 or something...it was in this house so he was at least 19 mos but not yet 3.

The questions were all worded very specifically, it was standardized. There was no deviations. This particular part was focusing on receptive and observational type processing.

The question showed him several objects, of which 1 was a penny. Then he was asked, "which thing do you use to buy toys"....ahhhh, hello who uses a penny to buy a toy? But I guess he was supposed to know that a penny was money and that money is used to buy things...I told them to show him a debit card and ask the same question, but they couldn't do that.

The other was a clinical evaluation, infact it was the one that produced his PDD diagnosis. This particular question was during the part that was designed to tease out his ability to pretend play, use his imagination.

They used play-dough to make a birthday cake and then straws for candles and wanted him to pretend to have a birthday party.

Well, at this point he had had 2 birthdays...the first he fell asleep in his cake...in retrospect likely a BS crash...the second we didn't have cake because we by then knew he had issues with sugar...didn't know about fructose, but did know that certain things resulted in BAD outcomes. AND to top it off he couldn't handle lots of commotion, too many people or noises, so we hadn't gone to any parties. The kid didn't even know what a birthday party or birthday cake was...

edited to add: plus he HATED touching play-dough at that time...or getting anything on his hands.

I nearly cried at the reality of that, but of course it looked to them as though he couldn't 'imagine' a birthday party...

There were other things that showed his difficulty with this, pretend caring for a doll as though it was a baby and stuff like this... it was clear he was not 'getting it' exactly, but he had a bit better of an idea and was able to 'follow' the lead...the birthday cake thing was a complete blank for him.

So, blah blah blah...I see your point.

I ABSOLUTELY agree that he needs to be challenged...or let's say his curiousity peaked to stay on task...DH & I said that very thing on our way home from the meeting...but how do we get past that...there are LOADS of things in life that aren't so fun...but they need to be done. He NEEDS to follow the instructions of his teacher or he will not do well in school - there is no way around that. And if he doesn't do well in school, he's gonna have a heck of a time doing well in life. And we know he is well equipt...so what can I do to help him past that?

All I keep thinking about is my brother...the poor kid with terrible self-esteem, that can't stay with a job past mastering it...which he does at record speed. He's so smart, "he out smarts himself" is what everyone told my mom, and he still does today...he's always in a pickle, and he has to work SO hard for the simplest things (like basic necessities)...it's really sad to watch. I see SO much of him in Coley, that I often call Coley by my brother's name.

[peglem]

Kristen, I'll PM you w/ my ph #.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Well, I'm feeling MUCH better about this now!!!!

We had our meeting this morning to review the testing. I am still concerned about some things, as are they, but overall I have a better understanding of the testing and what all transpired to produce the results.

Some high points where that, as the group prepared they reviewed their records.

From the Spec-ed coord, she said she had to double check that she was reading the right file more than once because Coley has progressed so nicely between last year and this year. She's anxious to get Dr. M's report so that we can implement anything we need to to get him ready for 1st grade. :D

From the OT, it took some warming up from him, but now he's doing well and she hasn't seen incorrect pen holding at all. The only concerns she has is how he writes and the clarity of it.

He tends to begin letters where typically they end and his formation is a bit below average. We talked a little about this, because I've noticed a couple other things about the way Coley 'reads' (no he's not reading), when he reads the letters of a word or the numbers of a clock, he tends to begin on the right versus the left. This is how he writes too...they haven't seen any mirror writing, and I haven't in a while either, but he does write some letters within a word backwards/mirror but the word itself is written from left to right.

However the thing that is concerning for the OT is that although he generally writes each letter correct the way he does it, writing it from right to left, is compromising it's overall formation, giving it a more immature appearance.

But she said for all his glitches (she didn't use that word) it doesn't really compromise his goal. He does what he sets out to do. Which is precisely what we see at home too...which leads to some negative behavior too, but she had not one hint of negative tone about that, even after I suggested that it isn't always good to be so hardheaded...nope, she disagreed! As far as she was concerned, it's called determination.

From the psych...well she had lot's to say, mostly in response to my questions about the test...so rather than bore you with all the details...the bottom line was that she feels Coley's scores reflect his distractability more than anything else. She said she got the sense from him that his verbal skills and cognative abilities were not well captured, but she was also assessing his behavior so needed to let the testing flush that out.

There were times that due to the guidelines of administering the test she wasn't able to redirect him and keep him on task...so his scores fell short. And there were other times where she could, and he did MUCH better...but there were also times where she just let him go to observe how long or far he would 'drift-away' from the subject...

Clearly the bottom line is that he's got an attention & focus issue! And we knew that...but his cognative abilities are not well reflected. Infact, she observed that where it was something new or challenging, he did better than she expected, and the easier things lead to a loss of focus quicker.

I'm still processing that...could he be that bored? If so what does that mean? Should I DO anything about that...there are LOADS of boring things that we all NEED to do...ugh, like cleaning the friggin bathroom (YUK!) but it's gotta be done right? Maybe if I got a fancy new bathroom I'd like it better? Or would that get old too...so...I don't know...

Ok, back to the meeting...from his teacher...she had lots of nice things to say about him. As usual Coley finds his way into the hearts of his teachers...he loves being helpful, he loves making people smile, and unless you've got someplace to go or something to get done...he could just interact with you in conversation all day! He's a charmer for sure!:rolleyes:

So with that said, Ms R was looking back at things and she said the difference in him and his disposition between the beginning of the year and now is amazing. I suspect that's just "adjustment"...new kids, new teacher, just off summer break....full day...course Coley still has a little anxiety with 'new' stuff...so he was likely starting at a bit lower place on the curve...and so now he's adjusted...it likely took him longer too...but even his work she said has shown a lot of improvement too. Perhaps his anxiety also hinders his performance, definately his behavior!

At the end of the meeting I asked for a sorta big picture idea of what we are dealing with.

The psych can't suggest ADHD because his behavior isn't consitent enough from their testing. So that was a HUGE boost.

And Coley is not that far off from the typical kid in Ms R's class. Does he need some special effort from her, yes. But he doesn't 'stick-out' from the others like a sore thumb. He has friends, the kids like him, and his overall performance is within range.

So I asked them what I could do at home to help improve his focus & attention. They had not one recommendation...but suggested to keep doing what we've been doing...I actually hate that phrase, but whatever.

We talked about Dr. G's class & some of the things we've been doing to help with behavior at home...they all quickly scribbled down the web-site and added the whole 'reitterate directions' concept. Ms. R seemed pretty open to the idea, even adding (without commentary from me) that the other kids (and there are a few specific ones, but all of them) would benefit from making sure that directions are clear before beginning the task.:)

I didn't get to talk to her about the sticker idea, we ran low on time, but they did briefly mention having a little 'signal' to decretely let Coley (and those few others) know that they need to get back on task...so I felt good knowing she'll figure it out on her own. I'll offer it as a suggestion if it seems like whatever she comes up with doesn't work.

So, I'm pretty much back to where I started with him...

Clearly he needs to focus to do well, right. And God help him if he falls behind...EEEK! I can just see a snowball forming that ends with a drop out statistic. ..maybe I'm freaking too much...but that's my perspective at this time. Well, that's history repeating itself...that was my brother's path.:(

So we need to keep him focused...those listening skills need to improve...but what if he's not being challenged enough????? Ms. R did say, that she's noticed when she presents things as though they are a challenge he responds MUCH better...

And it's not the first time we've heard comments like this...

-It was Coley's GI that suggested his behavior had more to do with boredum than anything else...he's the one that pushed me to consider regular-ed this year.

-The Dr that diagnosed his PDD told us then that his cognative skills were very strong, which just added to her difficulty with diagnosing him. I bet she would have given him Aspergers if she could have ...knowing what I know now.

-His teacher last year "we don't need to worry about Coley academically, it's all behavior"

-Dr. G, has repeatedly told us that it's been his experience that kids that are noncompliant are generally of higher intellegence.

I don't know...I know he's only in kindergarten, and he's progressing well...I can't predict the future...I'm not stressing, just sorta trying to process all this...I guess just watch and see for now...but suppose he is THAT bored, what do you do for that? I mean, DER, offer more challenge, but still you gotta do what you gotta do...and when someone in authority tells you to complete your writing assignment, whether you like it or not, you gotta complete your writing assignment, right?

Something to talk to Dr. M about, I think.

Pegs any thoughts?

OH, BTW, he's reciting the pledge now! :D yeahhhh.... my son is a pack member :rolleyes: funny how you want them to be the same, but to not be at the same time... right now I'm just happy he's following directions! The spec-ed coord joked that they were going to put him on the homeland security's watch list...omg!

[peglem]

and when someone in authority tells you to complete your writing assignment, whether you like it or not, you gotta complete your writing assignment, right?

No, you don't have to...and many times the consequences for not doing these things aren't terribly important to some people, especially if they think the assignment is stupid or irrelevant. So, maybe its important, as much as possible, to state the purpose of the assignment at the outset, so Coley knows what the goal is? And sometimes (you sure have to know the child well for this) maybe Coley can have imput as to alternative assignments that will fulfill the same requirement (particularly as he gets older). Many times just giving that as an option will get them to do the work as assigned because its too hard to come up with your own way all the time. I gave options in Kinder with work centers- 5 different activities that met the same objective. Students chose which they wanted to do. (Lotta teacher prep time, but after the 1st couple of years it was easier).

Glad to hear that things aren't as bad as they seemed. You'll have to be careful in choosing his teachers as the years progress. It would be a real disaster for Coley to get one of those "mywayorthehighway" teachers.

Have they used "Handwriting Without Tears" for Coley? I think its the best program out there for handwriting, especially for kids who struggle with it. I was never too persnickity about the handwriting-sent it home for parents to help with practice mostly. The thing is, with technology, there are so many ways now to get around HW deficits. I just didn't want difficulties with fine motor to get in the way of kids learning to express themselves in writing.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Really?

Actually, I just lied to you...didn't realize the time...Coley'll be home in a few, and I gotta get dinner going because class is tonight...I'll have to update the class tomorrow...I'll also respond better to your e-mail.

I'm going to e-mail Ms. R and ask her about the daydreaming. Depending on what Dr. M can do (assuming we determine it's something to look into) I may contact his old neuro...at Children's...I'll touch base with his ped first.

Ok, back to the, Really?

I love your idea about the choices, I know that would work well for Coley. He really likes for things to be HIS idea! Peg, the parents must have LOVED you! I'm sure I know this answer...but I'm gonna ask it anyway why aren't you teaching now?

back to the point, I'm a bit worried about him ALWAYS getting a say though...isn't this just postponing the 'lesson' for: doing as instructed?

You know, in general, outside of kindergarten, I'm thinking big picture...if an authority figure tells you to do something, you need to do it. Sure, most, let's say 'bosses' give you an opportunity to understand why and all...but at the end of the day, the world goes round because people do what they gotta do, right? This is what I'm talking about...

Yes, definatley for Coley understanding the why's helps...and I hate the 'because you were told to' answer, but to some degree that's true most of the time.

Trust me I can see how his 'attitude' will benefit him in the future...like when some kid tries to pressure him into drugs (or some filthy adult with evil intentions has other ideas)...that peer pressure thing just won't cut it with him...and I hear you...but shouldn't he recognize the difference between a kid telling him to do something he knows in his gut to be wrong, and a teacher giving him an assignment?

hmmmmm...maybe we need to talk about the whole purpose of school. Audrey is kinda in & out of her nap...I'll see if I can talk a little with him when he gets in...

[peglem]

I think its a matter of balance. Its better most times to get people to do things than to make them do things. Coley will most likely always resent people making him do things that don't make sense to him...and I don't see a problem with that, maybe just because I'm a bit the same way.

My very bright daughter always got straight A's in elementary school. Loved learning, loved school...then in 5th grade she got this OMG completely inflexible teacher. Began bringing home D's. The teacher said that she aced all her tests, but was not turning in daily work. I felt that the acing tests showed she was learning what she needed to learn, which is the whole point of school? So why make her do endless practices that she doesn't need just so the teacher can keep score in her gradebook? (I hate, hate, hate grades!)
I thought it was pathetic that this teacher could not get such an obviously intelligent child to get good grades. At conference the teacher would have none of my reasoning...way too much of "the other kids need" and "no exceptions" everybody has to do the same. This kind of attitude, I think, can really break a child's spirit. Fresh ideas should be encouraged along with different ways of doing things. Sometimes, yes, "do what I told you to do..."
But, if you can't come up with a good reason for it, then I think its time to re-evaluate what you're demanding, because it should make sense. I can't say that I never made unreasonable requests of my students, but if they were questioned, and I found them to be lacking, I made adjustments.

I was a good teacher, loved teaching. NCLB sure sucked the life out of it. My methods were not scientifically proven, no "data" to show they worked (lots of happy, achieving students in real life, but not facts and figures to show). "Proven" programs, very rigid ones were forced into the classroom. This really had more to do with money than education. (federally approved programs insured that vendors could sell those programs as long as they had some neat charts to convince a bureaucrat of their efficacy). That issue, combined with some especially stressful family times, made me decide to quit. I'm not sorry I did- things have only gotten worse.

Anyway, you're walking a fine line here- when to insist on obedience w/o expanation and when to apply "special treatment." I think all kids should get special treatment and as far as possible education should be individualized. No, I don't want an IEP for every child, but the teacher should have a pretty good idea what each child needs and how to tweak things to make students as successful as they can be.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I think I need some balance here too...

I have this HORRIBLE fear, and I think I need to talk to my brother, but I'm kinda at a loss as how to for the moment.

He is brilliant, very sensative and creative. His downfall...he trips over his own feet, he's gotta travel the unbeaten path, ALL THE TIME! I get why, but he's SO stubborn that even when things are explained to him, he still MUST learn the lesson himself. And I totally admire that in MANY ways...but sadly this has created, hmmm, now I sound like him, it's not some outside influence, it's his CHOICE (dispite counsel or explanation), that has really set up scenarios at pivotal points in his life that have lead to his, let's say, lack of success.

Thinking about Coley with school and his need to do things his way, and all of that has really brought a lot of 'stuff' back to me about our childhood...not perfect...whose is? But my parents frustration with him (my brother), and of course my 'role-models' on how to deal with similar situations is really scaring me right now!

I can see so plainly how my parents frustration with him really hurt his self-esteem. And your idea about the "mywayorthehighway" teacher is so on the money...

My brother is not even a year younger than me, so we mostly went through school together...my sister was way ahead so there was only one year of elementary that we were all in the same building.

My mom was always an advocate of the public system...she's very much a hippee type and community activist...she always felt, if things in the community weren't 'right' then you should volunteer, make formal requests, then scream, then protest until they were fixed.

Well apparently her patience wore thin when the Boston public schools hit an all time low while me & my brother were in middle school. I was trying to remember last night, I think he had gotten held back once by this point. So there were 2 grades between us when Mom hauled us out and into a local catholic school. I was in my freshman year and my brother in 7th...he never made it out of there the same.

They destroyed his spirit. He ended up going to a couple charter and tech schools after that, getting bounced a few more times before finally quitting school altogether when I was in my senior year...I think. I'm not sure exactly what grade he achieved, partially because some of these schools had a different way of 'achieving' levels and partially because that was so ficken long ago...couldn't have been more than 9th or 10th grade though.

Anyhoo...he did finally get his GED years later because he contemplated joining the services, but then chickened out...in hind sight...probably one of the best decisions he EVER made! But I bet he beats himself up about being a 'coward' even today.

Anyhoo...loooooong story...but you see what's got me a bit wigged out!

I am totally seeing a 'unique' school experience for Coley in the future...I absoultely will not allow Coley's spirit to be broken like that.

I suppose the compliance class should address some of my fears...to some degree he's still dealing with that...I do think he's writing his letters backwards because he has now learned that holding the pencil the suggested way IS infact the best way, so now he's gonna test out whether forming them according to the 'prescribed' stroking methods really is the best approach too...:rolleyes:

God give me strength!

Once we tackle some of the need to push, perhaps it won't feel so precarious...

As his confrontations simmer, I am seeing more anxiety from him too...I won't say he's getting more anxious, I just think I can see it more clearly now. He does worry about out of the ordinary things. Not wacked out...but he tends to over analyze things (hmmm wonder where he gets that) and gets stuck somewhere between a 5 year-olds perspective and reality...and really this stems from his persistant questioning of EVERYTHING!

He wants to understand why we have smoke detectors and how they work...so we try to explain, but he only understands so much...now the poor kid is afraid that we'll have a fire in his closet.

You should have seen me trying to explain why we lock the doors at night.

And he was nexted to tears yesterday because he had a "VERY important question to ask me"

"Does Santa get angry when 5yo's hurt their knees?"

WHAT THE HECK IS IN HIS HEAD ABOUT INJURY?! He hurt his knee playing at recess and refuses to let anyone see, including the nurse at school...he's walking and there's no blood, so worst case he could have bruised his knee cap, but likely it's just a superficial bruise.

Of course I told told him NO! and explained further until the stress left his face.

And the lengths I have to go to...blatent lying, making up fictional facts about Santa...it's like an intorrogation for christ sake...

Anyhoo, clearly I'm everywhere on this and should probably stop rambling, because even I have no idea what my point is anymore...well other than the idea that I'm scared to misstep and do the wrong thing for him. I know no parent wants to make mistakes, but I VERY much feel like we are walking a fine line.

Pegs I'm sure you were much more than a good teacher...you sound like a dream come true to me! I wish I could pay you myself... I hope you find a way to share your expertise in a comfortable way for you...it would be a sin to waste that! I totally hear you on beraucracy though...had my share of it too...but in a different 'industry'...similar frustrations though. I was in health care, and all we wanted to do is provide care, but god, the hoops, the nonsense, the blantent waste of time, effort and at the end of the day, money...UGH! Oh no I don't miss that! But I do miss feeling successful! ...a story for another day...

[peglem]

making up fictional facts about Santa...

This made me laugh! Isn't Santa about 99% "fictional facts"?

I confess that the Santa thing was dropped fairly early in my household-I felt like it was causing anxiety and why should some stanger be bringing my kid presents and didn't want Christmas to revolve around him...So "Santa" fills stockings on Dec. 6th (St. Nicholas Day) and then we're done with him for the year.

I get how your brother's issues are affecting you. And figuring out what went wrong w/ him may help you to not repeat the mistakes that landed him where he is now.

Figuring out a way to channel Coley's tendencies for success is the real challenge here. I don't know what to tell you exactly, which is why it took me so long to reply here.

Maybe this will help?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Pennington

I think you're in for a rocky ride, raising Coley. But, it will be a wonderful, fascinating journey.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

But, it will be a wonderful, fascinating journey.

Keep telling me that Pegs!

I didn't look at the link yet but will...just had to reply to the santa thing...

I know it's all fictional...but the questions he comes up with, I have to make up answers to, I don't have any one else's lies to draw off of, that's what I meant.

I can't even think of one of his questions now...but I was sweating, answering them...all along wondering/worrying if he was going to 'catch' an inconsistency or something...like I was lying to the FBI or something.

He's so serious about things, I want him to have santa for as long as he can. We tell him my dad knows santa...they have similar 'hair-do's' so they use the same barber, LOL! So they talk about santa together...I should just refer him to Papa anytime he has questions...that ought to punish my dad some...lol

[peglem]

Oh, I understand what you meant by the Santa questions- the irony of that statement struck me as funny though.

I'll bet your dad could come up with some great Santa fiction for Coley.

The link is just a bio of Ty Pennington- pretty severely ADHD as a child and well, he turned out FINE!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Thanks Peg, that was a great article!

My brother has been to jail...long & stupid story - assalt and B&E! But that's behind him. He also had his license suspended for DUI...cost him a ton of cash in fines and lost wages!

My dad could talk a hole in a cast iron pot! Or what's the thing my grandma says? Talk a junk yard dog off a meat wagon...hee hee!

I guess it runs in the family! There is NO such thing as a quick call if Dad answers! But I love him to death...no guy will ever measure up as far as I'm concerned!

Anyway, Dad was a firefighter and an arson investigator for Boston. My Dad's BFF (since HS) who we call an Uncle, worked on the fireboat for Boston. He lives in FL too near my parents now, but still has family here, so when he comes up he stops in to see us too. DH also has a cousin that is a firefighter for our town.

Coley says he wants to be a firefighter. A while back he wanted to be a parametic so that he could stick the Drs back so they would know how much it hurt & would stop doing it, but now he wants to be the 'supabisor.'

Coley had his fire-safety lesson at school recently which he thought was pretty cool...fireman Chris was the supervisor and ran the demonstration that included a miniture house (a trailor) that was fitted with a smoke generator and a few safety hazards.

Well, he wanted to talk to Papa aaaaaalllllllllll about this...I was instructed Wednesday morning to call Papa and schedule a meeting. Coley wanted Dad to drive up from FL that day...and oh he was to drive the truck, not grandma's car, so that he could also haul his 'tractor' (his ride on lawnmower which he needs since he can no longer mow with the back injury he got from work) up too...Coley wants to check it out...

Ok, so I called my dad when Coley got on the bus Wed and told him this whole thing...of course 'dropping by' was not an option, but dad got a kick out of it...luckily he needed to go out so I wasn't stuck on the phone with him for too long. Later when Coley got home the first thing he asked, before his coat came off, as he looked around..."where is Papa & Grandma?" So I dialed the phone and handed it to Coley...an hour later I took the phone from him...I have no clue what was discussed...I made dinner & fed Audrey during that time...

I figure I can have Dad 'baby-sit' now, anytime I need Coley to be 'occupied'...shower, clean the bathroom (yuk!), laundry...heck I could get a TON done, LOL!

My mom was laughing too...worked out pretty well on her end too!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Pegs, just a quick update, and a note of thanks!

Good catch on the day dreaming!!!!!

After some clarifications and a bit of education on absent seizures...it seems they are 'concerned'...

As his teacher puts it...she notices Coley 'spacing-out' often. So, DH & I talked...and we've made a plan, which I also communicated to the school.

For now we are planning to keep everything status quo...just through the holidays. We really weren't planning to go over the top with anything anyway, but I do think particpating and interacting with his cousins is beneficial to him, so we will do that...and he will be allowed to eat what is available.

After Christmas we will restrict his diet again. We see his GI that following Monday. I will ask for some blood work to check his vitamin/mineral levels to see if there is anything glaring.

After the break (back at school) he will have nothing at school unless it's sent by us. His teacher will also be keeping track of his 'spacing-out' both before & after the break.

By his 6yo well check in February we should have some good information about any improvements, or not from the stricter diet. At that time we will talk to his ped about whether we need to bring the neuro back into the loop, specifically for a repeat EEG.

Thanks a million for picking up on that...I can't believe I completley missed it..well not exactly, but I just didn't 'see' it with the same eyes, ya know... which makes me wonder how much I gloss over here too...so DH & I will be paying better attention here as well!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Ok, just a quick update here too...

Coley's visit with the GI went well!!!! Dr. Y is extremely pleased with his growth (2# & .5" in 6mos!) & overall health status! Rather than have us 'retreat' on his diet he asked that we let his body work through it. His perspective:

1. He's handling 'junk' a TON better than this time last year. AGREED!
2. Even if these are absent seizures, it's still better than last year. Agreed again!
3. Holiday's are over, we'll be reducing the junk anyway. True.

So he felt that we should watch him carefully and come back in to see him in 2 months just to make sure things are going well still.

His opinion, Coley's body is 'figuring it out', and we should allow it to do so. He didn't want us to make any changes. So no more s.boulardii at this point. Continue with his diet as is. And don't worry about the fact that he's refusing his supplements (we'll check his levels next time).

So all & all, I feel good about this! It does feel a bit risky, but I trust Dr. Y, so I'll just hold my breath until we see him after Coley's b-day.

And Coley's next report should be coming soon...