RDI question for Milivica

[Aspigander]

Milivica, you've created somewhat of a monster. :P I've been researching RDI for the last little bit. It sounds like it's expensive if one goes through a consultant. So I wondered, is there a way to self-apply it?

Also, since I'm an adult, could I self-apply it with or without parental assistance? I doubt it's something they'd want to spend much if any time on.

[milivica]

By comparison to anything else I know of for aspergers, this program is not only the cheapest but the only thing that works (internally, intrinsically). Would your parents have the funds to pay for you?

Here in Wisconsin, state funds pay for my child to be in RDI. I don't even want to imagine trying to pay for it out of pocket. And sadly it's not something you can DIY, you really need a person to guide you, an RDI consultant. I don't know if you can do it without someone to do it with you that the RDI consultant would train. Doesn't have to be your mom or dad, but should be someone you are in contact with daily and frequently and in person.

I can try to give you ideas to do, situation by situation, but I'm not anywhere near as qualified as my consultant, and any progress you'd make with me would be minimal...it'd be like a child trying to grow by others telling him what to do but not ever interacting with others. You're social growth is stunted, no biggie, mine too.

But you'll need to practice anything I could suggest with others, and it has to be others that are clear about your objective. Though I'm not sure if I am still aspie, I can tell you for sure I am way more vulnerable than my peers in any social situation, cause I've only had a couple years of practice with social skills they've had a live time to hone. I do feel certain though I will not only catch up, but pass my peers (if I live long enough!) because I'm putting so much conscious attention into living, unlike most nt's that were born nt.

I know RDI can be very cost prohibitive, and even if you can do the money part you will need a partner daily and in person - or else I'd have already offered to be your partner. Take more time to learn about it, there is a couple of books with exercises to do - one is for kids and one is for teens and adults. http://www.amazon.com/Relationship-Development-Intervention-Children-Adolescents/dp/1843107171/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225690637&sr=1-3

From that book, I could easily explain any questions you might have, and give you some ideas of stuff you can do that will help you make gains. I remember one thing my consultant had me do, was to watch old Lucy Ball shows to watch her facial expressions, since they are so exaggerated. Then I had to turn down the sound, and try to see if I knew what she was feeling. Though I could see that faces moved, just like I can see a tree moves, it didn't tell me anything about how the person felt, just like seeing a tree move in the wind doesn't tell me how the tree feels. In time, and not much time at that, I began to read people, not all day or anything, but moments here and there in the day...and let me tell you it was like being a mind reader for me. Well then I was supposed to watch Ethyl, who is less pronounced in her facial expressions, and with the sound down, in time, figure out what the story was about. At first, it sucked. I thought it was the stupidest thing, didn't understand the point at all. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't just that alone that helped me read body language, but it was a good start. Don't ever use those darn picture cards that show faces with different emotions - yuck. Faces move continually, there is no freeze frame like on those cards.

If you ever feel like communication is harder for you than others you see, or you feel this sort of haze around communication with others, remember that communication is 70% NONverbal. Folks on the spectrum rely on words. So you're generally getting less than 1/2 of what is being communicated to you. Likewise, your body language is communicating things you don't mean to others, despite your words being clear...also your intentions are not going to be like an nt's, so, there's another road to not being understood accurately. So give yourself a pat on the back and loads of credit and praise, that you're communicating all this time without the benefit of that 70% of nonverbal communication. Seriously, what a great job you've done - don't you think!

Ok, so think about getting that book, that'll be around a $30 investment so way more doable to start with. Should you be able to get the money and a partner to do RDI with, there is no way you will not be in sync and at ease in this world, understand others 'instinctively' within at most say 2 years. I say that not just due to your posts, but mainly due to your beautiful disposition. I think you'd take to that program like a fish to water. It'd be very natural for you.

[Aspigander]

Thanks, Mili. :)

Likewise, your body language is communicating things you don't mean to others, despite your words being clear...also your intentions are not going to be like an nt's, so, there's another road to not being understood accurately.

Isn't that the truth. I think that might be the core of the problem my mom and I have. "Actions speak louder than words", you know.

I think I'll probably get the book. And read it, and maybe see if I can get my mom to read it. I know my parents wouldn't have the funds, so I probably won't be able to get full benefits that a consultant would be able to provide, but if I could get my mom (who is around me the most) to work with me on it, I wonder if we could figure something out. She has asked a few times if I could find anything out about coping skills, and I'm kinda wondering if this might be a bit better than merely "coping".

The only ones I have pretty much daily contact with is my parents. My dad no doubt would leave anything to my mom, and I'd have to see to what extent she would participate.

A couple problems: She goes out of town most weekends and is gone at least Saturday and Sunday, sometimes she leaves Friday and gets back Monday. So there would be some days out of most weeks where, if she were my partner, we'd miss in person contact. The other thing is I'm hoping to pretty soon get back to my apartment, which technically I can do since summer, pretty much the season of both my parents being out of town a lot, is over (someone has to be here to take care of dogs). Anyway, when at the apartment I'd only have contact with them by phone anyway. I'm so reclusive they're pretty much the only ones I have daily contact with, so it would have to be one of them. So a couple bugs that would need to be ironed out.

I hope I would take to it like fish to water. The thing that has me kind of worried, and I've seen it talked about here, is that the RDI partners (mostly I've seen it here described as parent/child, as I'm sure it is in most cases) must develop a master apprentice relationship. This is where I struggle, even if my mom is my partner. I guess we probably never really did develop such a relationship (otherwise I'm assuming we'd get along better?), but now I keep thinking: "I'm an adult as well now, I don't want to be treated like a child." Know what I mean?

Funny thing -- throughout my childhood, I've been pretty good with authority. If a teacher/other school staff asked me to do something, I'd do it with little to no question. Something might tick me off about what I'm being asked, but I'd stuff it in to simmer all day and eventually boil over in a meltdown at home, and my mom would be the (un)lucky recipient of my frustration. I ONLY got suspended from school TWICE count 'em TWICE in my life and both times my mom was there, once both were there.

If she asked me to do something, and it ticked me off, it would be immediately clear to her by no uncertain terms that it ticked me off!

Does that sound odd? People have opined that I felt "safe" melting down at my mom because I knew her best, and just wasn't sure what teachers would do. Could it be I somehow developed a master/apprentice relationship with school and not at home? But if so, if I had a master/apprentice relationship at school, I might not be upset by what happened (even if I'd never state so at the time)? After all, from reading, I'm gathering that once the relationship is established, the apprentice "trusts" the master enough to know that what the master is asking is what is actually the best thing, and there's no need to be upset over it, because the apprentice trusts that the master knows what he/she is talking about, right?

[peglem]

I think the master/aprentice relationship (and Mili will certainly correct me if I'm wrong) is more about "feeling" than following orders. Using the master to feel comforted and safe. I mean, typical babies develop this without people ordering them around (and babies aren't great about following orders anyway). But they learn to get comfort from other people's facial epressions and body language...they're constantly observing subtle cues. They don't understand most language so they really are getting most of their info from nonverbal communication and that even aids them in learning language. When an infant encounters something new, they look to the parent, automatically to see if its good or bad, fun, exciting, dangerous...whatever. They have that guidance that they assimilate into the total experience. Doing that as an adult will undoubtedly be different- you will not be totally dependent on the master like an infant is. As you have already said, you'll have to plan time together to practice. I'm wondering, though, if you get an RDI consultant, if they may be able to hook you up with somebody else to practice with. The consultant that I'll be eventually working with here in Arizona specializes in adolescents (sp) and adults.

[milivica]

You are so HUNGRY for answers and clarity and more than just treading water and surviving in this world - it's just a joy to watch your mind at work as you post. You are going to feel so great, when you finally get all the explanations to everything you ponder. And I absolutely believe you will. Your natural hunger is going to get you very, very, very far in your 'quest'. If you have to perseverate on something, perseverating on why you do this, or don't do that, is a really good thing when you're on the spectrum. Just always remind yourself that it's all neurological, not 'you' or cause you are dumb or lack will power, etc...

Sounds like in school (and I tend to overidentify with aspies that remind me of myself, so I could be doing that when I say stuff to you) anyhow sounds like in school you were able to click into manual autopilot...you were able to manually make yourself do all the stuff you knew you were supposed to, that was the way you could be socially successful. While doing so however, there was no shared understanding on any emotional level, just a physical understanding of what you should DO. Yes? So you were being all other and no self trying to make sense of a world using neurology, that you didn't have. It's a bit like being in a radically different culture in your school, in your environment, even in your home and with your family.

When first learning the terminology in RDI, remember you're a novice to the concept the terminology represents. You are starting to grasp the master/apprentice relationship - which is great! But you'll need time to elaborate mentally, on the full implications of what an m/a relationship is. For instance, when I first learned about 'referencing', I learned the definition was when my son, in a moment of uncertainty, would look at my face for direction and know what to do. I set the stage for Vince to discover 'referencing', that without words, he could look at me and know what to do. If I wanted him to say hand me a pencil on the table, I'd call his name, point to the pencil...from that he'd know I wanted the pencil and would hand it to me. Sounds simple and basic, and it is, and it's likely not part of your neurology. After doing a year of that along with many other things, I eventually realized that referencing not only tells Vince what to DO, but also can tell him what to FEEL in a moment of uncertainty. So, in moments when he was anxious, he'd look at my face, see my expression, read my expression as calm so know he was supposed to feel calm instead of anxiety filled. I mean, wow. What a great short cut!!! My son being able to reference me when we're out and about, it has made such a difference in how he can now thrive...not just hang in there...when he plays with others. That is just a part, of the m/a relationship. Probably the very best way to understand RDI terminology, is to see what an nt person does...learning about typical neurology is the best way to understand aspergers. At least for me it was, probably because it gave me a comparison. So, if you see a little child notice a bug on the sidewalk, you'll notice that child instantly turns around to see the mother's reaction...from her reaction and facial expression the child will mirror his response (the mirror neuron system). An autistic child though, will have to sort out and discover all on his own, what the bug means, without benefit or COMFORT and ASSURANCE of having a guide. No wonder so many of us wind up highly anxious and depressed!

Getting into RDI is enough of a load...but you might like these videos
http://www.autismspeaks.org****eo/glossary.php
Register, takes just a minute, and it will show nt versus asd kids, you might see yourself in a lot of them. Seeing just works better for me, might for you too. I now get autism, I totally get what to do about it, but the explanation is so intangible I believe I am unable to explain in in mere words. If your mom is willing to work with you, be your parnter...then that combined with your hunger for more in your life will give you a tremendous advantage, even without a consultant. Once you begin to develop the parts of your brain, that have so far been underdeveloped or undeveloped, you will be addicted to growth/development because for the first time in your life, the world and everyone in it will make sense - and the clarity will not be full of effort it will be automatic.

Keep looking into RDI! Keep learning!

[Aspigander]

I just talked to my mom this evening about RDI. And ordered the book you linked to above on RDI. I'd been kind of playing with my Amazon cart all weekend, adding things, deleting things, adding things, deleting things. But tonight I finally made a decision and it includes the RDI book. I did tell my mom about it.

So, in moments when he was anxious, he'd look at my face, see my expression, read my expression as calm so know he was supposed to feel calm instead of anxiety filled.

I think if we attempt RDI, I'm going to have to have a serious discussion with my mom if she's to be the 'master'. When I get anxious, it seems like it's contagious, and if I looked at her (say with an anxious expression of my own), that's likely to cause her to become anxious. Anytime I have an anxious response she starts getting anxious, which makes me more anxious. So we'll have to be clear, I would think, that she NEEDS to model calm for me to receive calm as the take home message.

I think what you're thinking of my school years might be what was going on. Not entirely certain, but somehow it makes a little more sense that the "culture" of school was different than at home. Though I'm still not sure why I wouldn't have meltdowns at school until my mom was on scene. Both times I wound up suspended (these weren't necessarily my only two school meltdowns, all of which would happen in the presence of my mom, but they are the two that escalated to the level of suspension), the meltdown/aggression would start out at my mom (I believe it was aimed at my dad for the one event in which he was present as well), and a teacher intervened to get me to stop making a scene, and the meltdown/aggression redirected to her. Being visually impaired I carry a white cane, and the first episode when I redirected I raised my cane at her as if about to hit her with it, second episode I threatened to kill her (same teacher both times). Both of these things I don't believe I ever would have done had it just been me and the teacher -- I may have been frustrated at her for whatever reason, but again, it would have been suppressed for a meltdown at home. So for some reason, even when in the "school culture" I would meltdown/get aggressive if my mom was present, and would redirect aggression to to a teacher who attempted to intervene. Does this make sense?

[milivica]

Wow so glad you ordered the book! Your mom with naturally feel less anxious, when she understands more about what is happening inside of you. Sometimes, when us mom's don't know what to do for our kids, we feel even more autistic than they do, incompetent and powerless and scared we'll mess up our mothering job and our kids won't have a good life. At least that was how I felt, especially when he was so angry and violent and seemingly unreachable. Those were awful days, made only worse by just about every professional I tried to get help from, especially in the school system.

I bet your mom would feel a wonderful relief to finally have some tools to parent, and the two of you could share a closeness that perhaps neither of you realized could exist for you both. RDI brought my son and I closer than anything I could imagine, and it did the same for my daughter who is nt...remember RDI is just about typical development. This man and his wife, read a bunch of books about how babies/children/teens develop, exactly what development they gain step by step, then, they were able to isolate all the things that don't develop in autistics. Then, they were able to create activities to foster that development. That about sums it up.

Just FYI, your mom won't be modeling behavior for you like in ABA, that might not be what you meant by modeling but I just wanted to mention that. And, I think it's completely normal to wig out on your mom more than anyone else most especially in school years and when frustration is high.

[Aspigander]

Just FYI, your mom won't be modeling behavior for you like in ABA, that might not be what you meant by modeling but I just wanted to mention that.

I think I do understand that. What I meant was, if I'm to reference her to see how she acts/feels about something, and she becomes contagious to my anxiety before I can get that she's acting/feeling calm about the situation (and therefore by the time I work out her signals they will be anxious signals), that won't do any good, right? The message I would get would be: "Okay, I checked in with her to see how she's responding to see how I should respond, she's anxious, so therefore I should be anxious." Correct? I'm getting that referencing means the apprentice looks to the master for cues on how the apprentice should respond based upon how the master responds.