Son 16 and ADHD

[houghchrst]

I will try to keep this short and still give as much info as possible.

5 yrs old taken to therapy due to night terrors and anger issues told he has acute separation anxiety. Just do some therapy on and off told doing well move into family therapy until about 8. Not really changing much but this is my first child and I believe when they tell me he seems fine and to move on.

Back into therapy when a 3rd grade teacher asks me to have him checked for ADHD and basically he meets all the criteria according to teacher's paperwork. We do therapy, not a big fan of meds. This is sporadic, mostly for anger issues. Stopped approx. 2003.

Then in Dec. of 2004 child takes a knife from his collection to school and threatens a bully and a friend. Expelled. We start family therapy, him one on one, my one on one, and meds for both. His diagnosis is ADHD, Bipolar Disorder (they tell me but put II in the paperwork), Anger issues. He is given meds for ADHD, and Bipolar.

In the last four years he has been treated for ADHD and Bipolar and has never really been mentally stable. He has had good moments and I do mean moments.

He suffers from terrible anxiety and I can't seem to make this clear to his pdoc, he just keeps saying the Abilify is supposed to help that. His ADHD meds help to a point but only at first and only in school. He is still hyper and seriously irritating and picks until he pushes the right buttons lol.

Within the last few months I have been talking to John Hopkins University Hospital because I had put in for us to be part of a Bipolar study and after talking to them on and off for a couple of months they turned me down saying that my son sounds like he does not have Bipolar Disorder but more like Generalized Anxiety Disorder. This sets off bells and explains a lot of things because I have been wanting them to try an antidepressant and something just for anxiety for a long time and they won't.

Then after my son developing the beginnings of an ulcer in two areas we spoke to his pdoc and I told him what John Hopkins said and that the new Vyvanse was making him manic then we discontinued the Vyvanse, gave Klonopin, and halved his Abilify.

Now he is not exhibiting any signs of ADHD. Has no trouble concentrating on his school work, is very mellow, not that loud talkative, pacing, throwing himself around teenager that he was a few months ago. He still has the anxiety and depression but I am confused.

I am wondering if the ADHD could have been anxiety all along and triggered similar symptoms and now that the anxiety is being treated the symptoms are gone.

Even when he was on ADHD meds he was still hyper. I don't know, I am a mental head case myself and have been trying to keep this kids head above water for years and now after all of this time I hate to think that I let them, let him go this route for so long.

I posted this also in the ADHD forum so am trying to get some ideas from all around.

[tic chick]

hey chris! *bunch

it's so hard to know what's going on in a child's mind, whether they are acting out because of things that are happening in their family or world around them, or whether they are having chemical imbalances in their brain.

in my humble opinion...scientists don't know everything about the brain. it is a great unexplored frontier. they don't know whether you are born with chemical imbalances. i think some people are, because usually they run in families. no family has perfect brain chemistry. i do think meds are overrated at times. teachers like their classrooms quiet and the children attentive. anybody that doesn't fit this mode, whether they are having mental or family problems, is going to be singled out. i think therapy for children can sometimes be as effective as drugs, cause we don't know whether the problem causes the chemical imbalance, or the chemical imbalance causes the problem. so don't be too hard on yourself. you're not a brain scientist. the most important tool you have is your caring for your children. the next would be to arm yourself with as much info as possible. end of humbleness. :)

to know what's going on in the brain, you have to know about the chemicals involved in regulating everything from mood to temperature. here is an excellent website article explaining the chemicals: http://www.enotalone.com/article/4114.html read all 6 pages and you'll have a better understanding of what's going on in the brain.

next, after you read what brain chemicals control what functions or moods in the brain, you have to compare them with the drugs your doctor is suggesting you or your son to take.

each drug you get from the pharmacy should have a piece of paper with it explaining everything about the drug. you can also go to http://www.wikipedia.org and see beforehand what chemicals in the brain this drug mimics or has an affinity to. this is found under the heading of "pharmacology".

medical definitions to help you understand can be found here: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/hp.asp you need to know the difference between an agonist and an antagonist and receptors and stuff, if you don't already.

now the rest of this is just my opinion from my own understanding of drugs:
when a child is given a drug for adhd, it is usually some form of an amphetamine. if the child were truly adhd, the amphetamine would do it's job of calming the child and making him more attentive and thus making him remember more. if your child doesn't have adhd, the amphetamine is just going to ramp him up. it is an "upper", and acts that way even when a doctor wrongly prescribes it for adhd. so, an excess of amphetamine could send a person into hypomania, which might be diagnosed as bipolar disorder. anxiety and depression do co-exist. what you are trying to do with drugs is in effect change the chemistry of your brain chemicals and/or receptors to get the perfect emotional balance. this is pretty hard work for people and doctors.

if you read the section about the brain chemicals, you might see how anxiety and adhd are related. the abilify is working on the dopamine receptors in the brain. i know this because having tourette syndrome, which they think is caused by dopamine receptors being overly-sensitive to the dopamine, makes my movements uncontrolled at times. but, abilify also affects the norepinephrine levels, which caused my ocd to become worse. i can live with the tics, the ocd affects my quality of life more.

it sounds from the posts i have read of yours, that chemical imbalances do run in your family. you have been a loving parent and i think that makes up for a lot of problems caused by chemical imbalances. the child feels this unconditional love and is more able to COPE with the problems surrounding him. sometimes when drugs are not working or working the wrong way, coping is the only mechanism we have to get us through this bad time. and i am sure you have helped your son in this way.

i think we have to decide what emotions in our brains make our quality of life the most problematical and then choose to treat those and let the rest go, or find ways to cope with the rest of them.

talk to your son. find out what bothers him the most. arm yourself with some knowledge and info about drugs and what they work on. your son will be an adult soon. if you feel the doctors you are seeing have their own agenda or are not listening to you and your son, find a doctor that is open to trying different things to make the best possible life for your son. your son is going to have to continue this battle for himself. you will be there to support, but he has to know how his body is feeling and be able to talk to the doctors to get the best possible results for him, also.

it's a long journey. sometimes we don't get everything we want. then we have to bolster our inner qualities to cope with that. to ignore the problems of the journey, is to live painfully and die emotionally.

we both know that.

(((((love and hugs))))),
jeannie

[houghchrst]

when a child is given a drug for adhd, it is usually some form of an amphetamine. if the child were truly adhd, the amphetamine would do it's job of calming the child and making him more attentive and thus making him remember more. if your child doesn't have adhd, the amphetamine is just going to ramp him up. it is an "upper", and acts that way even when a doctor wrongly prescribes it for adhd. so, an excess of amphetamine could send a person into hypomania, which might be diagnosed as bipolar disorder. anxiety and depression do co-exist. what you are trying to do with drugs is in effect change the chemistry of your brain chemicals and/or receptors to get the perfect emotional balance

This I already know which is why I am so confused as to how the ADHD med would allow him to be calm enough to concentrate in school yet he would still be hyper outwardly. Leg shaking, inability to be still, constant talking, inappropriate behaviors. Almost like the meds made him worse and better at the same time. Now that he is no longer taking the ADHD med but is taking an Anti Anxiety med he no longer has problems in both areas. He does still have angry outburts, some inappropropiate behaviors, mostly teen motivated. The Abilify is because I think the pdoc is not quite ready to give up the Bipolar diagnosis.

As for what bothers my son the most I know it is anxiety. He worries about everything, friends, family, me, his brothers, school is a torment for him. My mother, his dad, uncles. Stuff he really should not be worrying about. I keep telling him, you make it through school and let the adults worry about the rest of the stuff. I need to have another meet with his therapist and talk to him too. I think one of the big things about his psych appts is that when he is asked how he is doing he is a right now person. For right now he is fine or angry but two weeks ago when he was seriously depressed doesn't count.

Thanks Jeannie for all the info. I will have to plug myself in some more.

[konfuzed]

Christina,

I cried when I read your post. We have been going through some of the same things with our 16 yr old daughter. She was diagnosed with adhd in third grade. We did everything you are supposed to do, medications, therapy, sports and etc… Nothing seemed to help. It got to the point last year that we had to enroll her in a different school. She has trouble making friends and keeping them. Her grades are awful, doesn’t sleep, depressed and cannot follow simple directions. We finally found a therapist after her arrest for underage drinking that said she believes that she has an anxiety disorder. The doctor believes that she was misdiagnosed with ADHD and she has seen it happen before.

My daughter is now on a low dosage of Zoloft 25 mg a day. We have seen a difference. She is calmer, sleeps and can carry on a normal conversation.

We are scared about her taking this drug and have done our research and yet she seems happy for the first time in a long time. She is actually making good grades.

So I guess my answer is yes that i believe that she was misdianosed. I hope this helps and would love to hear how your son is doing. I know how helpless and lonely you must feel.

Shannon

[houghchrst]

Shannon I am so glad that your daughter is on the way to getting some proper help. I know how hard it is seeing your child take such a serious medication, I fought it for years, until at the age of 12 (?) he took a knife to school and threatened some children one of which was his best friend. Here is where the I wish I knew then comes in. Water under the bridge so we do our best from here on out. 25mg a day is a small dose, it is wonderful that she is responding to such a low dose. I too take it and am taking 100 mg a day. Hopefully as she matures and the hormones stop zinging around things will improve even more. I am praying for the same for my son lol. I wanted to mention that I started giving my son Fish Oil Omega 3 supplements and since then he has not even exhibited any of the ADHD symptoms. My pdoc says that usually it can help with the mania in bipolar also so that might be something you might want to consider also. Can't hurt that's for sure.

My son.............wow things have changed. He is failing school and we are going to give up on this 5-6 years of agonizing struggle and find an alternative less stressful, less anxiety ridden way for him to gain his education so that we can move on. High school has been a nightmare for him and the med change has done nothing to change that so it is time to adapt. It is my fault that he has suffered this long but we have exhausted all of the school's options. His rages have diminished, he has been with his girlfriend for over a year, he is still impatient but not near as bad as in the past, he is back home full time now, he is becoming a young man yet still a child in a lot of ways. They so want their independence. He is going to meet his new psych doc soon. Maybe we can get a new diagnosis.

Feeling lonely, yes definitely. The only people who understand are those that are here that have their own diagnosis or with children that do. I cry because not only do I have my own diagnosis but he does too and I know how he suffers, I cry because I am so afraid for his future, I cry because I am afraid that when he gets on his own he will stop taking his meds, I cry because he is high risk for suicide and I am so afraid of losing him. I cry because it is so hard to make others understand why I do for him what I do, why I am willing to go that extra mile, why when he calls me crying from school and tells me he doesn't feel right in his head I go pick him up. I do it because I have been there and no one should be in that position away from the safety and comfort of home and someone they love. I cry because even though my family knows that we are mentally ill they really don't get it. There is going to be major fallout when they find out that he is not going to be in mainstream school. We want to make sure we have a good plan in place before we tell anyone.

Shannon I am so sorry this turned out so long. You got me at a sensitive time, things have come to a head and I am hoping things will be better from here on out.

I am glad you posted, I hope to see you around more.

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

[waves]

Dear Christina

tears are contagious. i cry for you too. i am sorry i cannot be more help.

i wish i could be there where you are and give you some practical help with things. i feel so helpless... and as i have expressed... i got to feeling voiceless. but i did see your last post. and i just read this one and the tears started.

i will post again to you on the other thread when i have re-gathered my wits... not necessarily tonight. i am spread a bit thin and also having a difficult time of my own. and you are dear to me so, that whole.... thing.... when it finally came down to my feeling helpless to help... i felt really awful all different ways.

but, right now, can i just leave you a hug here? or three or four?

just the plain old-fashioned kind... you know...

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Christina ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

~ waves ~

[waves]

Dear Shannon,

Zoloft is a wonder drug as far as I am concerned. I am no longer taking it right now, because there is no need, but i have taken it for long periods, at different times and it has been a GodSend. I am glad to hear your daughter made such a turnaround with the right meds provided. there is nothing worse than a wrong diagnosis and wrong meds. :o

Best wishes to you, and to your daughter!

~ waves ~

[houghchrst]

Waves honey I am so sorry that you feel so helpless. You shouldn't. You have been a tremendous source of comfort to me, great advice, true insight, valuable source of knowledge and information, just a plain ole good friend. You have been a tremendous help to me, more than I can express, just by being here.

I will take those hugs and would like to give some right back lol.


{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{WAVES}}}}}}}}}} }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[waves]

thanks. that hug exchange was really nice.

:) :o :) :o :)


~ waves ~

[konfuzed]

well, i spoke to soon....my daughter's teacher called and informed us that she is failing math. when my husband confronted her and said she would lose her cell phone for a week, she freaked out. full blown fit. she tried to run away, my husband grabbed her and she just totally lost it. She said she was going to kill herself, hated us, didn't want to live with us , wants to quit school etc. of course i was at work had to leave and try to get her under control. nothing worked. we ended up having to take her to a crisis center.

i have never felt like a loser parent then i did when i walked in there with her. how can i not control my child? Where did i go wrong? Does she have a right to blame me? All these questions keep going through my mind.

she did two hours of counseling and they released her to us. ( the insurance company would not admit her because she was not a threat to herself or others !) i guess threating to kill yourself doesn't count.

so they upped her meds to 50 mg and she seems back to normal, like nothing ever happened.

My husband and i wonder if she could be bi-polar, the mood swings, not sleeping or sleeping for days and she is a compulsive liar....any suggestions?

Shannon

[houghchrst]

Shannon I am so sorry. Believe me it has nothing to do with your parenting skills or controlling her. I have been through the same thing so many times. I have had to actually call the police to pick up my child because he had assaulted my fiance and then walked out of the house. Took him to the ER that time and yes after the assessment they sent us home. One thing you have to learn is to pick your battles, her failing at math may not be her fault, it may be due to a learning disability and if she is being punished for it then she feels betrayed and ganged up on. My son suddenly started failing math and it has turned into his worst subject. At school he falls under the Emotional Impairment category but he does not have any special ed classes, he just gets shorter lessons, more time for work, and a lot of other things. It may be something you want to look into if her grades continue to fall.

As for bipolar it is hard to say, anxiety disorder could cause the same response. So may a few other things. You can't expect the medications to completely cure your child. You are still going to get break through behaviors. They will be out of the blue, seem crazy, things might get broke, then suddenly things may seem as though nothing happened. The best thing that you can do is stay calm and remember that your child has a mental illness and does not want to be this way. I have learned to let some things go, some things I give a verbal reminder that the behavior or language is unnecessary but I try my best not engage in battle. It stresses all around and hurts feelings. I am not saying she should have free reign by no means. You just learn that living with a child with a mental illness is not the same as living with a child who has no mental illness. Punishments are different, learning is different, interaction is different. It can be a struggle but we love our children. Keep up the good work and stick around. Sorry it took so long to get an answer, I have been sick.