Parents of Bipolar Kids or anyone who may know [Archive]

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Simcoe

11-09-2006, 08:32 PM

I'm worried about my DD7. :(

First off, I want to say that DH's sister was diagnosed bipolar last summer. I suspect that DH may also be bipolar. This really scares me.

We had a meeting at school the other day. They've noticed problems with DD. They did a behavioural assessment on her, which determined that she doesn't have a learning disability, but is actually probably gifted. We won't find out for sure until next year when they do the grade 3 testing. Anyway, the meeting was to develop strategies for dealing with her behaviour so we're all on the same page.

She can be a moody kid (DH comes to mind). She doesn't snap out of it. When she has a bad day, it lasts the whole day (according to the school). They said they can tell from the minute she steps off the bus it's going to be bad.

She's not outright defiant ... more passive-agressive. If she doesn't want to do something, there's NO WAY you can get her to do it. The teacher says when she doesn't want to write, she'll just scribble or crumple up the paper and hide it in the back of her desk. Other times, she can come up with the BEST stories.

She's told us she heard mean voices in her head telling her she's bad, ugly, etc. and using bad words. I have to note that we're overly careful about never putting her down. We say negative things about her behaviour sometimes, but never about HER. We've even given DH's mom a talking to about calling her a baby when she cried.

She has episodes which I thought were night terrors, but lately she's been responding to me when I talk to her. I tell her to stop it, she says OK, then 2 seconds later she's crying again.

I've had her in tap, jazz, ballet, swimming, soccer, gymnastics, Spanish classes and probably more that I can't remember, but I always end up pulling her out because there are days she REFUSES to participate. Nothing will convince her on those days to just do it. I get pissed cause I'm wasting money. At this point, she's in nothing but we're contemplating karate - for the discipline aspect.

I could write a book, but I'll stop now. The school has recommended that we take her to a pediatrician and get a referral to a psychiatrist. We never mentioned bi-polar to them.

What I want to know is were there any indications when your child was little that you reflect back on now as signs that something was wrong? I'd really like to hear your stories.

Thanks!

cckids

11-09-2006, 09:54 PM

Right now I am challenged with our oldest since there seems to be so much that goes into it. Nothing seems clear cut or well defined into any limits of any one disorder.

The bipolar parts of him... normally something will trigger him like a reduced amount of sleep one night, a social problem at school (like a sub all week in the resource room), or spending a weekend away. Then he goes into this state where he only sleeps like 6 hours a night whereas he normally sleeps 11. His speech gets really rapid, he seems constantly agitated, makes up stories, and he jumps from one topic to the next. Then he'll really get off the deep end after a few days and start to complain of voices. He also starts having tantrums more frequently and is really edgy and irritable.

He's only really acted clearly depressed on 2 occasions--after his grandpa died and when he was on seroquel. He does have his days here and there though where he just seems flat or sad but is still pretty functional.

He also has really bad anxiety---so at times it is hard to differentiate whether it's really bad anxiety causing him to be so irritable or just his mood. And majority of all problems start about social issues. Sometimes we wonder what is really the chicken and what is the egg.

The first time I really noticed the mood issues was at about 4-5 years old. His biodad still had visitations and this stressed him out terribly. He would get extremely withdrawn and then start talking about his "army guy -'Sachyo'" who would keep him safe at dad's house and he would talk to "sachyo" in his room. We really blew it off like an imaginary friend. Then when his Grandpa died unexpectedly at age 48 in second grade---all the sudden sachyo came back.

He has tried and quit due to lack of participation---soccer, Sunday school, hockey, basketball, and now also the afterschool Bible club. He is still in Karate and even though he's terribly uncoordinated and gets really frustrated he still participates and anticipates the next day.

Mari

11-09-2006, 11:02 PM

Hi,
Before you sign her up for karate, see a psychiatrist and get advice.

Here's a good book:
The Bipolar Child: The Definitive and Reassuring Guide to Childhood's Most Misunderstood Disorder (Revised and Expanded Edition) by Demitri Md Papolos and Janice Papolos (Hardcover - Sep 24, 2002)

Here's a good web site:
www.bpkids.org

Mari

Simcoe

11-09-2006, 11:05 PM

The bipolar parts of him... normally something will trigger him like a reduced amount of sleep one night, a social problem at school (like a sub all week in the resource room), or spending a weekend away. Then he goes into this state where he only sleeps like 6 hours a night whereas he normally sleeps 11. His speech gets really rapid, he seems constantly agitated, makes up stories, and he jumps from one topic to the next. Then he'll really get off the deep end after a few days and start to complain of voices. He also starts having tantrums more frequently and is really edgy and irritable.

She gets moody when she's had less sleep than normal ... she's tearful and reluctant to participate in most things besides cuddling and watching TV. She doesn't seem to have the manic thing happening. She's normally a really laid-back kid.

He's only really acted clearly depressed on 2 occasions--after his grandpa died and when he was on seroquel. He does have his days here and there though where he just seems flat or sad but is still pretty functional.

DD's had episodes (though not recently) where she's just cried. I've asked her why she's crying, but she's told me she doesn't know. After an hour or two, it usually stops and she's back to herself. But it takes a lot of talking and cuddling to bring her out of it.

He also has really bad anxiety---so at times it is hard to differentiate whether it's really bad anxiety causing him to be so irritable or just his mood. And majority of all problems start about social issues. Sometimes we wonder what is really the chicken and what is the egg.

I hear you! She used to refuse to get on the bus. When asked why, she would tell me it was because it was too loud. She also used to hide in a corner of the classroom in JK/K and not come out. I wondered about anxiety and called the principal to get her expert/working with children opinion. She didn't think it was anxiety ... I did.

The first time I really noticed the mood issues was at about 4-5 years old. His biodad still had visitations and this stressed him out terribly. He would get extremely withdrawn and then start talking about his "army guy -'Sachyo'" who would keep him safe at dad's house and he would talk to "sachyo" in his room. We really blew it off like an imaginary friend. Then when his Grandpa died unexpectedly at age 48 in second grade---all the sudden sachyo came back.

She's had imaginary friends, but nothing that I would consider unusual for an only child. Her dad and I are still together (although there are issues ... as I mentioned, I believe he's bipolar too but he would never address it). I'm thinking imaginary friends are good to have in times of stress ... as long as they're friends and not mean.

He has tried and quit due to lack of participation---soccer, Sunday school, hockey, basketball, and now also the afterschool Bible club. He is still in Karate and even though he's terribly uncoordinated and gets really frustrated he still participates and anticipates the next day.

I'm happy to hear he's interested in karate and anticipates going. It's our next step! I'd really like to build her self confidence.

Thank you for replying so quickly! Do you have any suggestions on how to handle her behaviour? Are there techniques to help her want to participate?

Simcoe

11-09-2006, 11:06 PM

Mari

11-09-2006, 11:11 PM

Dear Simcoe,
The good news is that bipolar is treatable.
Mari

Mari

11-09-2006, 11:22 PM

Simcoe

11-10-2006, 12:07 AM

Dear Simcoe,
I'm not a mental health professional but I do have bipolar.

One little suggestion: it is counterproductive to ask someone like us WHY. We don't know "why."

Our brain is not working with us. It is getting in the way. Any kind of answer we could find to your "why" would not be satisfying to you anway.
Trying to answer the question causes us even more stress.

Just some thoughts. I know that you will end up with a pyschiatrist who can help you with this stuff.

You are a good mother and you will be able to find the help for her that she needs.
Mari

I sincerely apologize for making you feel stressed.

I'm looking for answers and am not anywhere near the "acceptance" stage. I think I'm still in the denial stage ... trying to rule everything out. So I'm feeling like I need to know everything ... NOW!

I'm just asking questions and don't mean to offend anyone. I thank you for letting me know how you feel and I hope my posts reflect my respect for your feelings.

Mari

11-10-2006, 12:13 AM

Dear Simcoe,
It's ok. I appreciate your kind words, but you did not stress me.

I am not a parent. So I don't deal with children and I feel awkward giving advice. But I wanted to suggest that you could stop asking her "why." That's all.

We have a few other parents who show up once in a while. Maybe they will see your post in a day or so and can offer actual help.

Mari

Persevering

11-10-2006, 02:34 AM

Quickly reading here...
But saw the response regarding Dr. P's book
Couldn't agree more
The Bipolar Child (an older version) was like my Bible when our adopted dau was younger.
The authors know everything there is to know on the subject.
It was like they were in our home, observing our child
It can help you determine if there is a s trong chance that your child is bp.
It can help you work closely with physicians, therapists, teachers, administrators
Help with medication, discipline...even picking vitamins
I would also suggest having your child evaluated by a competent child psychiatrist. If you are unsatisfied or confused, get more than one opinion

Bdix30

11-10-2006, 03:17 PM

My child NEVER stopped crying. He NEVER slept for more then about an hour at a time. I was convinced he had broken a bone during birth because it wasnt a "hold me; feed me" type cry - it was a high pitched SCREAM that would last until he exsausted himself and he fell asleep for a short time. The doctors said colic.

At 6 1/2 months he started crawling - and life took another turn. Now, he could crawl around and get to the things that caught his attention - so the screaming constantly went to screaming from pure exsaustion because he COULD NOT stop moving - ever. Sleeping was still next to never. He hated the car seat - so I couldnt even drive around to get him to sleep.

When he started walking, things seemed to improve a tiny little bit. He still could not sit still to save his life, but the hours and hours of crying slowed down a bit. He replaced it with anger. For no apparent reason, he would get angry and throw himself down on the hardest floor, sidewalk, or area he could see and bang his head repetedly. We were unable to leave him alone because he would draw blood from doing this if someone wasnt RIGHT there to stop him.

I went back to the doctor, begging him to figure out what was wrong. The first doctor was convinced we were idiot parents who were not living up to their job. I swear on the lives of everyone I have ever cared about that this was not the case. The next doctor observed and stated that he was showing early signs of ADHD. Because he was injuring himself by banging his head, the doctor wanted to research some safe medication and start him on it. (he was 2) This is when I hit the books and net.

I studied every single thing I could FIND on ADHD. Two things stood out very clearly to me. 1. ADHD kids do not go days without sleeping and 2. do not fly into a fullblown rage that can last just as long.

He was extremely intelligent - was reading books unassisted at age 3, figured out football (to the utter pride of his father) at 4. He would bounce around the room and watch a game and be able to call the plays, etc. etc. But he could not hold a pencil, coloring would throw him into a rage, and a game of Pick Up Sticks I purchased ended up broken in half within ten minutes.

More doctors, no help, I was getting as desprate as was my son. When he started Kindergarten he got a godsend of a teacher that concentrated on his strengths and didn't draw much attention to the weaker areas. He rarely "sat" to do his work, but it worked out well. At home things were still horid. At one point he was so exsausted and out of control he picked up a 30inch tv and chucked it . It was more then double his body weight.

1st grade started. He got the WORST teacher one could ever imagine. The 2nd day of school I get a phone call from a mom who was volonteering in the classroom (she lived across the street from us and knew my son well) that said GET HERE NOW! THEY ARE GOING TO HURT HIM! I only lived half a block away and was at the school before a minute had passed. That horrid teacher and equally as awful principal (brand new, first year and new nothing about accomodations) had my son curled up in a ball under his desk SOBBING uncontrollably because when he started to get edgy and had stood to walk around the room lke he had been permitted to in kindergarten, she told him in front of the whole class "THIS IS NOT KINDERGARTEN! DO WE NEED TO PUT DIAPERS BACK ON YOU AS WELL?" Although I didnt know what to call it at this point, it threw him into fullblown manic mode.

I went into KILL mode. I got my son and walked out with him still shaking and sobbing, and barely able to stop myself from knocking that woman out. In fact I told her not to say a word or I was going to lose what little control I had. She complied.

Things got worse at school. Things got worse at home. My marriage was starting to go downhill, as dad and I had not had a full nights sleep in 6 years. We couldnt hire a babysitter because no one else knew how to handle him.

Long story short, we finally took him to a man in a nearby town that handed us a diagnosis of Early Onset Biolar Disorder. I was in shock. I was unaware that children could even have this condition! But the more I learned, the more I agreed. I read the book "The Bipolar Child" and was convinced that the authors had based the book on our lives.

We started a very low dose of Zyprexa. And that night he got the first full, good night's sleep he had ever in his life had. We were in shock.

I still remember what he said the next morning "Mommy, I dont feel stupid anymore. My hands do what my head tells them to do."

Now, he's a 4th grader - still quirky and still not your typical student, but he's happy and hes functioning at a wonderful level.

cckids

11-12-2006, 08:34 AM

That's a good question since that still proves to be a challenge. If he doesn't want to do it or he's got it in his head that he "can't" then it probably isn't going to happen. I've found it easier to redirect to a different activity than to keep kicking a stone. I really wish the dirtbike thing, the hockey thing, the soccer thing, the school thing...well I wish they worked out better. But it won't so we find the alternative.

Our son also has monster anxiety issues which puts him off the deep end at times. The first time he really said he "felt so much better" was when he had Ativan. He actually stated that he felt "relaxed" for the first time ever. :eek:

I have to explain that I do work in mental health field, and we do use conventional psych meds. At the same time, we have found that getting rid of wheat and dairy products (or at least extremely limiting them) has helped tremendously. And magically all the eczema and GI issues went away also.