??? When is a Seizure "over"

[MikesMom]

Hi:
Thought I'd come straight to the experts for this one....

When Mike seizes (T-C's), during the early part of the seizure it's clear that Mike's seizing. What I don't know is when is the seizure actually "over"? This may sound like a stupid question, but it matters because he had one this morning that was either 2.5 minutes long or 7 minutes depending on the definition of "over".

The first 2.5 minutes were that horrible choking, rhythmic jerking. After that his breathing got easier, but he was not responding; I called his name, squeezed his hand and waved my hand in front of his eyes for several minutes before I got a response from him (that's the extra 3.5 minutes or so). His eyes were open the whole time, but I'm pretty sure he would be classified as unconcious during this time.

So, is the seizure over when the choking sounds stop, or is it over when he regains conciousness?

Mike saw his neuro yesterday and he will start Keppra tomorrow (his first AED - we've been holding off on meds but a 22 minute seizure in March is making the decision for us).

Thanks for any help you can give.

Jeanette

[LIZARD]

My husband says he's always gauged mine by when I respond to anything in any way, even if it's just a spaced out "Huh?" For me, that's when all obvious GM activity has stopped and I'm heading into deep post-ictal sleep, usually about 2-3 min after the start of the TC phase of the sz. Maybe try "Squeeze my hand" or something else that will give you a fairly definitive way of knowing he understands and is "returning to Earth," even if he still needs several hours of sleep before recovery is really in progress.


I hope this helps. :)

*hug

LIZARD :)

[Denae]

With Ri's big seizures we call it over when she can look over at us on command or respond to anything, usually I will ask her "are you ok" even if she can't tell me she will try to nod her head. If she doesn't respond to that I will say "Ri look at me" and if she does then we call it over..

Sometimes the line is so fuzzy though.. I know...

((hugs))

We seriously hate seizures!

[lacyndarella]

I would say it's over when he's responsive.

Lacy

[MikesMom]

Thanks Ladies - that was very helpful. And Denae, thanks for posting the videos of Riley. I watched her videos and a few others on YouTube and realized 2 things - that yes, Mike's "big" seizures look just like other peoples' (had always wondered cause I'd never seen a T-C before), and that he is possibly having at least one other form of seizures. He does a rhythmic, what I call a "mini-startle" in his sleep. You can usually count about 12-15 seconds between them. He catches his breath, right hand will lift, body will rise a little, then all settle down again until the next one. They don't wake him, and he doesn't seem disturbed by them. We've been on trips where he's fallen asleep against me and this has gone on for 30 - 45 minutes.

Oh, my boy (well, young man).

Jeanette

[Denae]

It does really help to dispell some fear when you can actually see someone else experiencing something too. I will never forget the first time I saw my friends son having a "big" seizure. I realized that while they are all the same, they can be variable from person to person.

((hugs))

[Guitarmom]

Videos of other people's seizures are really priceless ! So many things can LOOK like seizures and be other things. Seeing them can really help differentiate! I am so sorry that this is going on with Mike! I hope that the medication helps control seizures for him! I would agree with what the others say about getting some kind of response from him> Even if he can look, touch or do SOMETHING to show you he is back with you again....he might then need to just sleep the seizure off but that is OK and to be expected!! Both my son and I have seizures. Mine are much milder than my son's and I have complex migraines as well that can also have a need for sleep after. Both of us can have trouble responding during a seizure. We can HEAR the person talking to us in some seizures, but not be able to reply.....after the seizure ends, I will be able to look at you but not get words out.....i will be agitated at NOT being able to talk....I will be able to nod to a question....

Ginny

[jkidd]

It kinda depends. Kathy would slip in and out of a seizure from time to time, be able to respond but then not be able... her memory of the whole thing was wiped out even if she was sometimes aware. The "test" they told us to try in the hospital for VEEG was to give her three random words to remember. If she couldn't rmember thme the sz was going on at the time we told her the words.

[MikesMom]

Hi:
That's kind of scary... the first seizure Mike had we called 911. The paramedics arrived first, then about 15 minutes later the ambulence got there. The shaking part of the seizure was well over by then, so everyone was like "okay - the seizure is over, now do you want to go the hospital or not". Mike's sister Danielle came and stood in front of Mike. The ambulence attendant asked Mike who she was, he said "my sister". Ambulence attendant asked "what is her name", all he could say was "my sister". It was about 30 minutes later before he knew her name. Does what the doctor's told you imply that Mike was possibly still seizing when he couldn't remember Danielle's name? SCARY stuff.

Jeanette

[lacyndarella]

possible but the fact that he knew she was his sister at all shows he was responsive. I don't know that I would say he was still seizing as much as he was post ictal.

Lacy

[LIZARD]

The ambulence attendant asked Mike who she was, he said "my sister". Ambulence attendant asked "what is her name", all he could say was "my sister". It was about 30 minutes later before he knew her name. Does what the doctor's told you imply that Mike was possibly still seizing when he couldn't remember Danielle's name? SCARY stuff.

Jeanette

Post-ictal state can last awhile. I have done this, too. There were times when I seemed to be unaware, not completely aware, or unable to properly answer a question. If he said "my sister" soon after coming to from a GM, he was doing well. ;) The problem, in my experience, is 1) trying to engage brain and mouth; and 2) trying to think through a herd of elephants dancing on my head. :rolleyes: A better question might be, "Do you know what just happened?" He might only say, "Yeah...seizure" or something like that, but it's sufficient in such a situation.


*hug *hug *hug


LIZARD :)

[Mom2Ava]

People can respond during partial seizures ... both simple & complex so I never use the if they can respond it is over or not a seizure.

Ava can respond by looking at me during a CP status and sometimes she can reach for things, but cannot talk & has minimal motor function.

I always give diastat for a sz lasting more than 5 minutes. I used to play the guessing game ... is it a sz?, postictal?, benzo side effect? now though I know the difference ... or at least think I do.

In the past I had assumed postictal and regretted it as the longer I waited to give diastat, the less effective it was and required ER visit.

[wheeliebird]

Jeanette, I'm no help, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry Mike is having the seizures, I Pray you can get them under control!! I think of you guys often!!

Love and {{{HUGS}}}

Robin

[jkidd]

That thing about being able to respond during partial complex seizures fit Kathy to a "T". There is such a thing a partial complex status... people respond slowly even while in it. It is mentioned in "Seizures and Epilepsy in Childhood: A Guide for Parents". The story that Dr Freeman relates is about a girl who was brought in by mom acting not quite "right". Freeman relates that if he hadn't already seen this girl before (a bright 13-year-old) he would have simply assumed she was slow-witted, but she was indeed having partial complex status. Because of Kathy's history of partial complex status I'd learned to err on the side of caution: when in doubt, assume a seizure.