SAMe

[peglem]

Was wondering if anybody has tried SAMe for their kids?

[Isabelle]

yes, i did, in that time it was hard to find (banned by the government?) the one we found was expensive and we needed to give it in large amounts, so it was impractical, we went for thryptophan. the psychiatrist recommended for depression, in my son's case, supposed to help reverse the effects of risperdal and correct drug-induced insomnia.
the psychiatrist recommended for allie? for insomnia?

[peglem]

No, the psychiatrist did not recommend it. My understanding is that its really just a product that the body makes from B12. I didn't know its supposed to do anything for insomnia. We've been using it for about 2 weeks and Allie's muscle cramps have disappeared-making happier mornings. I give it in the morning because I didn't know if it would hinder sleep or not. Its still expensive-but I did get a screaming deal on it- 2fer+coupon for $11.00 off.

[callyflower]

Yes, I use it with my dd to help with her methylation situation (B12 synthesis.) It's widely used with those using the "Yasko approach" to biomedically treating autism.

[JungleWoman]

Is this what you're talking about?

Because vitacost has a kickin deal on it!

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-SAM-e-400-mg-30-Tablets

[Isabelle]

muscle cramps? danny is on chewable, cherry taste, 1000mcg b12 1x a day. he still has movements that he can't control, a bit better, but he has, what it looks to me, tardive dystonia. so he is on b6 and (editing: txs, peg!) p5p, plus tons other supplements. i am going to look at the availability and prices and see if it helps. thanks for remind me of this supplement same.

[peglem]

Is this what you're talking about?

Because vitacost has a kickin deal on it!

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-SAM-e-400-mg-30-Tablets

Yes, that's it. Thanks for the heads up on a good deal! What I just bought is the 400 mg tabs. They were 2fer, so I got 60 tabs. It would have been $40.00, but I had the $11 coupon so only $29.00 for 2 months worth! But, that's like a rare find. When she runs out, I'll likely have to track down another deal or pay through the nose.(eeeeww, snotty money!)


Isabelle said:so he is on b6 an pcp, plus tons other supplements. i am going to look at the availability and prices and see if it helps. thanks for remind me of this supplement same.

You mean P5P? pcp is angel dust, no?

[Isabelle]

You mean P5P? pcp is angel dust, no?

he is still an angel, LOL yes, i meant p5p.

something else for muscle cramps i read lactic acid is involved in that and acetyl-l-carnitine, an amino acid reduces it. i gave it to danny for 4 months saw no difference. but what right now looks like is helping with his sib (if it is not the fact that he is drug-free for 21 months) is a homeopathic remedy called "belladonna". so far he still has stiff muscles, even though he plays video games for a couple of hours some days every day.

[peglem]

he is still an angel, LOL yes, i meant p5p.

something else for muscle cramps i read lactic acid is involved in that and acetyl-l-carnitine, an amino acid reduces it. i gave it to danny for 4 months saw no difference. but what right now looks like is helping with his sib (if it is not the fact that he is drug-free for 21 months) is a homeopathic remedy called "belladonna". so far he still has stiff muscles, even though he plays video games for a couple of hours some days every day.

Do you know that belladonna is an anticholinergic? I have used acetyl-L-carnitine with Allie- but when I run out of the darn stuff, I keep forgetting to get more, mostly because its not available at the stores I usually go to. I like it for the acetyl group- hoping it'll team up with some choline and make some you-know-what.

[Isabelle]

peg, he was on 17 supplements just to reverse the effects of risperdal and choline and pt100 was there, coq10 was very important.....i read to "treat" or help to strength the mitochondria coq10 is vital, plus large vits bs
so monday i'll see the prices of those supps in my store, included acetyl-l-carnitine no creatine, right? because he was on prescription carnitor.
i am following hannah poling storie and how 9 vaccines given to her caused to become "autistic" and the probability that most 'autistic' cases were mito or metabolic sensitive and i read the use of those supplements in her treatment.

[mrsdoubtfyre]

Just a few comments.

I don't know what SAMe will do for autism. But it does help people with
methylation problems.

It has been my experience that younger patients may become agitated on it.
So start slowly, and only increase doses every 14 days or so, to see what happens.

As far as buying non-brand name product:
Be aware that SAMe is very moisture sensitive, and should be purchased
in blister packed foil type packages (not loose tablets in a bottle). Although a new manufacturing technique is being used for the raw material making it a bit more stable, blister packed product should still be chosen. I see mostly blisterpaked type myself.

I use NatureMade and have since 1999 (for my arthritis). I get buy one get one free, also Costco has it for about 30 cents a tablet of 200mg, and I use NatureMade rewards and get a 7.00 dollor off coupon for logging the code # on each box. It was very expensive back in 1999... about $1.25 a tablet.
So .30 cents is a big improvement cost wise.

You will want to make sure the SAMe is taken on an empty stomach. And also early in the day. It may cause insomnia is some people, and has a warning about bipolar. However, I have never seen a person become bipolar on it.
It is a good idea to take bcomplex with it, since the SAMe is recycled thru the methylation chemistry, and bcomplex helps with that. There is NO PROOF however that you must, it is just a suggestion.

My son who is ADHD gets very tense on SAMe. He starts out well, but after a month, he gets irritable and reactive. He has tried it 3 times, infact since he left home, and still fails. But he likes the "energy" it gives in the beginning.
So he keeps trying.

If you want to naturally increase melatonin for improved sleep, I think tryptophan is a better choice. Tryptophan enhances serotonin, which is then converted to melatonin in the body. You need B6 to support this reaction.

The Pfeiffer clinic uses SAMe for certain purposes. I guess trial and error is the best way if you don't want the testing...their methylation theory is interesting.

[callyflower]

Mrs D,

Many children with autism have defects in their MTHFR genes, resulting in derangement of their methylation system. SAMe is just one supplement used in a total program to help bypass that defect and allow more normal methylation/detox, etc.

Genetic testing for the defective genes is becoming more mainstream with kids with autism. My dd was tested 2 years ago.

Cally

[mrsdoubtfyre]

Mrs D,

Many children with autism have defects in their MTHFR genes, resulting in derangement of their methylation system. SAMe is just one supplement used in a total program to help bypass that defect and allow more normal methylation/detox, etc.

Genetic testing for the defective genes is becoming more mainstream with kids with autism. My dd was tested 2 years ago.

Cally

Thanks Cally--- if that MTHFR error is present, then folate is affected too.
Methylfolate (Metafolin) is the activated form of folic acid.
It is not available alone OTC since MERCK refuses to sell to OTC suppliers, but I just heard that it might come back (I've sent an email to that company--Solgar --for confirmation). Next best OTC folate is folinic acid (called Leucovorin on RX). This is used in kids who have folic acid failures and also after chemo drugs.

I don't read here everyday so I don't know if you are posting about the activated folates. That is why the methylB12 is being used, as well? then?

[callyflower]

Most of us treating our kids according to genetics use Folapro, Intrinsi B 12 in small doses. Yes, that's the reason behind the MB12, along with the SAMe, CoQ10, carnitine, etc.

C

[mrsdoubtfyre]

Most of us treating our kids according to genetics use Folapro, Intrinsi B 12 in small doses. Yes, that's the reason behind the MB12, along with the SAMe, CoQ10, carnitine, etc.

C

Wow... 26.00 for 120-- you know when Source Naturals had it out, as Metafolin it was less than 1/2 of that price!

I'll let you know if Solgar delivers the OTC... you might save some $$
(or not depending on their prices--they tend to be higher too than other companies).

I've been watching for single source methylfolate because we use it for Peripheral Neuropathy too.

Thanks for info!

[Isabelle]

Do you know that belladonna is an anticholinergic? ...............and make some you-know-what.

peg, remember that homeopathic remedies are shadows of their original molecules..... i think
....what ????

mrsd, super ! i was reading the hannah's case and her treatment reflected entirely my son's, the difference was that risperdal had damaged his mito and also caused "dysglycemia".

[peglem]

from Isabellepeg, remember that homeopathic remedies are shadows of their original molecules..... i think
....what ????



I don't know what that means: homeopathic remedies are shadows of their original molecules. How do you bottle a shadow? And what good would it do to administer that to somebody? Not getting that. To be fair I have not checked much into homeopathy...

The you-know-what I was talking about the acetyl group from acetyl-L-carnitine getting together with choline to make acetylcholine.

[mrsdoubtfyre]

from Isabelle

I don't know what that means: homeopathic remedies are shadows of their original molecules. How do you bottle a shadow? And what good would it do to administer that to somebody? Not getting that. To be fair I have not checked much into homeopathy...

The you-know-what I was talking about the acetyl group from acetyl-L-carnitine getting together with choline to make acetylcholine.

Is to dilute things to almost infinity. Often in the millions. Each dilution is agitated/shaken --there is a big word for this--succussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
When things are diluted to 10 to the 24th power, it is hard to prove anything is left behind at all. The theory states, that the active molecules used leave
"an imprint" in the water (Isabelle's shadow)...and it is this activated water that is therapeutic.

Many believe that homeopathy is placebo effect.
But some homeopathic products are not so diluted...you have to read the labels. They can have active ingredients...like Zicam...which had enough zinc in it to damage the sense of smell in many who used it.

[peglem]

Mrs. D:They can have active ingredients...like Zicam...which had enough zinc in it to damage the sense of smell in many who used it.


Zinc can damage smell? Didn't know that.
So, still don't get homeopathy. Why would giving little, infinitesimal amounts of something help? I guess its the whole theory that doesn't make any sense to me.

[mrsdoubtfyre]

zinc applied topically-- in the case of Zicam spray--- shot up into the higher areas of the nose where the nerves are--- damages them.

Taken orally it does not have this effect.

Zicam has changed over to nasal swabs...which still leave me cold.
Supposedly you can't reach high enough with the sticks..but who knows?
I think it is best to keep zinc status good by taking it orally. That way the rest of the body which needs it, gets it too.