Very long..new to this board...

[Digikitty]

I know it seems like i disappeared.Between the holidays and pain..ugh!
anyways, I saw my ortho asst..or ortho *** more like it before Christmas, and apparently, he "doesnt know what else to do for me" I have 3 herniations in my neck.Said, I need to see the surgeon in 6 weeks.Ordered Ultram and Lidoderm patches.What a waste!!So, then saw my pm today, ordered a mri for my lower back, I had 3 falls in the last 2 mths and my right lower back has been torture, esp. at night.(I had 2 prior micro surgeries about 3.5 yrs ago) but my pain has always been on the left side.. then asked if i needed pain meds, then states, "your better off without them" and ordered injections for my cervical.I dont know what its gonna take for me to get pain relief.nothing works..I have a few Vicodins but Im saving them when I cant take anymore.Why must I live like this?I feel like the rug is being pulled from under me.Im not sure how much more I can take.... so,. thats about it...thinking of changing Drs..but will have to travel way out of town to go...THE ABOVE WAS POSTED LAST WEEK IN THE SPINAL BOARD...
TODAY i POST THIS:

ok, after my fiasco with my PM Dr... (see previos entry)I had the MRI and honestly could not get up off the table, the pain was terrible. My problem is, I have lower right lumbar pain...sometimes, feeling like its going directly down my right thigh, but stopping behind my knee..So after my MRI, I called the PM nurse, EXPLAINED MY ISSUES (oops, sorry) was told they will call back in 24 hrs.No call, so I callled them, I cant even get out of bed during the night to go to the bathroom, it is too painful for me..Nuttin nada, you have to wait till the mri is back.So, i called the mri place, they said they have the results and they faxed it to my Dr.I went to my Drs office, the Dr saw me and took off.I have not in any way been rude, ugly nothing...spoke to the nurse who didnt go over the mri with me.My husband and I discussed with the nurse, why I am having so much trouble with the Dr.She states shes her boss etc...I do understand that, what we dont understand is I already have cervie issues, and she the Dr asked me a few mths ago "why am I trying to avoid surgery"?I told her i wasnt, but looking at my options.She flatly refuses to give me pain meds. That is our biggest problem..The nurse said, she doesnt give everyone pain meds! I then informed her that the MRI is only a piece of the puzzle, patients statements mean something these days etc...
anyways, I didnt see anything way off on my mri, just the same ole junk I already knew, the forminal narrowing,disc space narrowing and disc degeneration @ l5 s1, and of couse previous postsurgical changes, mild left lateral bulging annulus.My question is, WHY AM I IN SUCH SEVERE PAIN with my right lower lumber..WHEN I SIT, OR IN BED..I feel like i am going to break in half? When I am up walking, its a bother, but not painful, only in bed and sitting.Then to top it off, the nurse called this am stating "the Dr didnt find any suffient reason for pain meds after she read your MRI this am" UUUGGHHHH.. I am really wondering if my mri was not read correctly?I know thats a long shot, but really...on the history of the MRI, it says, "lower back pain" nothing about the RIGHT sided back pain, my left side feels ok!!!!
Should I call the MRI place and ask for a different dr to read it?Do they do that?I feel like this mri was a total waste of time and money..I had it done with the gadolinium..I really cant believe I would have this pain for nothing...
then to top it off, i am scheduled for a cervical DMBB (at the end of the month) they told me a few weeks ago what it stood for, but i forgot already..and this will be my last visit with her.I wanted to cancel, but didnt want to burn my bridge when i truly need her help and another Dr may take a few months to even get seen.I do have a ortho, and i am seeing a surgeon also at the end of the month..but they told me she*(PM Dr) would have to give the meds..nice people huh?I also have Cervial Dystonia and must have botox injections every few months for the rest of my life and the ortho doesnt do them..so, we are def.looking for a different pain mgt Dr, but who knows how long it will take or if they take my insurance..
please help!!!!

[Diandra]

Hi Digikitty,
If you have a pain mgmt. doctor who refuses to give you pain meds, what would be the point of seeing her if she won't help, just says to do surgery?. Whether you do surgery or not, you need the pain meds now.

I feel bad, it is obvious how frustrated you are and in so much pain. Is it possible that you are in such bad shape that surgery is the only thing that will help your pain and that is why you are being pushed so hard in that direction, although it does seem like it is cruel to not give you something stronger to help with the pain now.

I have to tell you, if our pain docs only looked at MRI to determine if we were in pain, many of us would not have pain meds. I don't know why you are not being believed. You are making the right choice by looking for new pm doc.

As far as calling the MRI place and asking for another doc to read it, I have to say I don't think you are going to make any friends doing that. Do you have any doctor you trust who you can get the MRI sent to ask for their advice?

I'm sure folks with back surgeries will come along to give more sage advice.
Make it a priority today to get a new PM doc and make an appt ASAP so you can see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Please come back and let us know how things go.
Diandra

[houghchrst]

Digi, I really don't have anything to contribute because I am looking for a new PM doc right now and today hopefully I will find out who. I am on my third because the other two won't do meds only injections. I know what it is like to be in pain day and night and not get any relief and to be frustrated with the medical community. I hope you get some answere soon.

[Digikitty]

thanks for responding, its always nice not to be alone.My PM loves the needles.After being with her since Aug.I see that she doesnt want to help me,so, I am off to find another..I do feel tho, i deserve another reading, as the MRI was a big expense..and its not that i am avoiding surgery, its just i am now able to see the surgeon later this month..

[Diandra]

You absolutely DO deserve to have your MRI read by someone else. You did spend alot of $....I just think you need to deal with someone you can trust to make sure the reading is being done properly....there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for the actual MRI and having a trusted primary care or other doc give their opinion. I have had that done and gotten totally different opinions... one was to have surgery on discs, other was absolutely not. I picked not to have surgery and manage the disc pain issue(along with other pain issues) with meds, various other treatments.

I personally think you are very wise to wait on the surgery...I always feel it should be an absolute last resort and that every stone should be turned before you do that. It is awful that your primary and most acute issue, your pain, is not even being addressed.

Maybe start another post asking for a good pain doc where you live.
I live in CT and have a wonderful pain doc. I have to run out but when I get back I will send some links to look for good docs or maybe those links are in the "stickies" at the top fo this forum.
I wish you the best.
Take care, Diandra

[Digikitty]

thanks D..I went to some sites and had such a hard time, and still didnt find anything.I am in Florida

[Lil E]

Digi,
Try www.spine-dr.com they may be able to help you. An MRI can be misread and you can have a lot of pain without it showing on tests. You need a new doctor, one who won't help you but takes your money should be reported to the AMA. I think all of us had a hard time finding our present doctors.

[suede]

DK

Sorry to hear of all your going through, have to say that many of us have been in the same position as you are myself included.

I have to travel over 140 miles round trip to see a PM that even tries to help, my last one was a needle jockey also. My PM recommends my meds and my PCP has been writing them many PM Dr's have it set up this way, especially when a patient has under gone all treatments and nothing has helped and is only on meds.

I know how you feel about not believing your MRI was read correctly, I can only say to this that I have had so many MRI'S I have lost count and NEVER has any one of them been looked at by more then one Dr and been given the same DX, no two ever see it the same way.

It truly takes a Dr that cares enough to listen to the patient and take their history and to listen to them to put the whole picture together to get a DX a MRI just like any other diagnostic test is not fool proof.


I also wouldn't be jumping in to surgery, always get more then one opinion as there is no going back once you have had surgery.

I wish you the best and keep us updated as to how it goes.

Linda

[Kandra]

Hi DigiKitty,

I feel for you...! I know how frustrating this is, trust me.

Ok, in regards to your MRI...first, take the film/CD to an orthopedic surgeon. They always see more in the films as they deal with these issues day in and day out. I recently had an MRI of my right shoulder that just showed an impingement but my orthopod said he could see "shredding" in the rotator cuff. So, the answer there is to get an orthopod to read your MRI.

Your PM does indeed sound like a needle jockey. Run far and fast. Right now you need pain relief before you can consider your surgical options, if indeed you elect to even have surgery.

Look at the top under Useful Websites..there's a couple posted there that will help you find a doc. Hopefully others in FL. will see your post and be able to recommend a PM...of course, it may be helpful to mention which part of FL. you reside in :)

Good luck!!!

Kandra

[Mark N]

Digikitty, sorry I didn't see your post on this forum sooner. You already know your PM is not a PM but a needle jockey because that is how she earns her income. A good PM will be willing to look at a wide range of treatments and your pain does need to treated.

You can have your MRI read by another doctor but MRIs don't always show the problems we are having with our spines. I know before my lumbar fusion my MRIs were always not very impressive and I shouldn't be having so much pain. What it didn't show was I had IDD and the fluid leaking on my spinal cord was causing the pain.

I hope you find better doctors as you look for them. Be sure to ask about what treatments, make sure use of narcotics is included, when calling about an appointment with a new PM. No need to pay for an appointment and find out they don't do narcotics.

[Digikitty]

hi all.thanks for the suggestions.I am in Tallahassee,Fl..yep, shes def. a needle jockey.i have a appt with my spinal Dr(orth surgeon at the end of the month) so i will bring him the films.The prob is, i gotta live with this pain in my lower right lumbar for 2.5 more weeks.along with my already there cervie pain..UGH!!The mri facility will not let another dr read them unless my needle crazy Dr requests, and that will not be happening!
thanks again

[Kathi49]

Digi,

I am so sorry you are suffering like this. I know we have talked about your cervical spine problems on the spinal forum. I am in the same boat though...cervical and lumbar issues. Only my painful lumbar is on the left. What caught my eye is when you said it didn't hurt to walk; only sitting. Walking doesn't bother me either...it is the sitting or lying down. And for what it is worth, I just had facet injections done on the lumbar, left side only. They have helped me a great deal. And I am supposed to be getting another round of them on the 1st of February IF the pain comes back. And from there...it would be an RF. So, it is kind of a wait and see thing.

And just for clarification purposes my PM WILL prescribe meds, other forms of treatment, etc. As a matter of fact he has some kind of "Patient Bill of Rights" deal in his offices...stating that we have every right to DEMAND ADEQUATE pain control. I kind of laughed at that because it was so "out there"! So, no, he's not afraid or opposed to prescribing anything that might help. I guess I am playing the devil's advocate a bit because injections have helped me. I just don't want ALL PM's to be thought of as needle jockeys simply because they give injections. But at the same time, I understand where you are coming from. If that is ALL my PM did, I think I would be looking elsewhere too. :eek: The thing that I DO like about injections is the simple fact that they are diagnostic as well as putting the medication right on or near the pain generator. I guess I am just different...I prefer them since they have helped so much. But I also stay with my standard meds too. But I know where you are coming from too. I was reading earlier today that some pain clinics will NOT prescribe any pain meds so I would have to agree with what Mark said. I just find that odd and certainly don't know their reasonings. I just hope you can find one that will cover a broad spectrum of treatment.

[anthoney]

HI, I hope you find someone. I am in south Florida and know that there are serveral good Pain Doctors down here. Keep trying and if you know anyone with pain issues ask them who they see.

Anthoney

[911]

hey digi my old pm doc moved to florida , i cant remeber his name but ill find out he is a sweetheart , i think he is somewhere in central florida , he had to move south due to his or his wifes health issues but he treated me great the docs name is dr snider ( sp) if you can find this guy he is great he was my doc in maine and basicly saved my life ,,,,,,,,,,,,, i hope you can find him he is worth a short trip to see ,,,, it took me 45 mins to remember his name , good luck ,,,,,,,,,, i think his first name is john ????? good luck ,,,,,,,,,,, dave

[Digikitty]

hi all.My computer went kaaa poot! So, now I am back online.I am still trying to find a new PM.I just got with a new primary Dr who said he will refer me to our other choice here in town.I did let her(my needle jockey pm) do a another type of injection, the initals were DMBB in my cervical area.I am still in pain, no pain meds at all.We had to reschedule my Ortho appt as well. I had my husband go and stay with me.He also spoke up for me.I am supposed to have a SI joint injection next week, not by her, but her replacement.(shes out of town) YAY! When I had one before(yrs ago, another Dr), I had the light sedation, they are doing this in the office without sedation??:confused:
So, I am still not in any better condition then I was my last entry..UGH!! anyways, just wanted to update...

[jtroy]

Hey there Digikitty:

I thought I'd throw my two cents' in as well. You know, many times when you are at the stage where you are.....so many tests, so many different docs, so many opinions, etc., etc.....it can turn into this revolving door that no matter what you do you cannot seem to stop it.

I found that the best way to approach a pm doc is from the standpoint of what it is doing to your life....or how it affects our life as well as the lives around you (i.e., spouse, sig-others, kids, family, etc.)......at first I was gung ho about explaining the exact type of pain, location, intensity, triggers, etc.....and finally one day realized that he wanted to know what was going on with my life.

So I explained to him that I was fully disabled, couldn't work anymore....my wife went from being the stay-at-home mom (her dream) back to the teacher and breadwinner. I emphasized my inability to give my daughter the full attention she needed and also couldn't interact with her as much as I thought I should be able to....especially living in the same house with her day after day. I also explained that my family had been taxed to the max because they are utterly helpless and just don't know what to do whenever they see a human in that kind of pain........it just isn't a pleasant thing to see.

You might think about using that approach next time. Perhaps your next pm doc appt you could start off with something like, "well doc, I don't want you to think I a doc shopping but I am just looking for a doctor who understand me, how this pain negatively affects my life, and takes away from my ability to cope on a day to day basis." Certainly the tests, history, etc., etc., will come in........try not to "inundate" (sp?) him/her with all of it (although make very sure your history is completely accurate)........try to steer the conversation toward how this physical pain is taking the joy out of your life and you have finally made the decision that you are ready to start trying medications to help with it until an appropiate surgery can be planned with the proper doc.

I know that this approach has helped in the past. Are there docs who simply are not going to listen to what you are saying? Sure....however, the vast majority of them really do want to help.......if they were only in it for the money you can bet you'd likely get scripts followed by 5-minute monthly exams (at $300+) and so on. However, if you find that the doc you are dealing with simply will not treat you with opioids you should make sure that you completely understand why you received that answer along with what notation are being made in your chart. You see......some people get labelled as drug-seekers whenever all they are trying to do is find a quality pm doc.

If there is anything I can personally help you with, please don't hesitate to email me at: tjandfon@hotmail.com I can certainly help you with any questions, fears of the unknown, what to expect, etc. Also, there is a way which to dialogue with docs that will make them listen to you better. Hope that this helps some and feel free to email anytime.

Regards,

T. Jones, DVM

[Kathi49]

Excellent post Troy and I agree! (Btw, I have a question about one of my pups LOL!)

Digi, when is it you see the surgeon? I may have missed what you said.

[Nana4&cntn]

DK,

Boy have you been thru the wringer, I have been very lucky with doctors. The one thing I have learned thru the 11 years of negtiating this system is to make sure the ortho doc sees the MRI, they can see things that alot of docs miss. Then the best pain docs are physiatrists. Physical rehab docs MD's who do not do surgery. They seem less afraid of prescribing meds or opoids. Take your records with you or have the new doc request them, usually there is no cost to you if the doc requests them. You said you are in Florida, I will do some checking to see if I can find some names for you. I hope things get better for you soon.
you have received alot of good advice from the other folks, so my advice is just my opinion and as they say every one has one.

Take care,
Kathy

[Digikitty]

I have to see the ortho in about a mth Kath.Until then, no one will help with anything..thanks Troy for your assistance and nana! I have spoken up to the PM doc, explaining that this pain is affecting my everyday life. How juat shopping is painful, holding a gallon of milk etc..her answer to this? Is to have someone else do it!!!I am my husbands caretaker. He had a massive heart attack 2 yrs ago at the age of 36.He will need a new heart soon.So, there isnt much he can help me with around here.I do have 2 kids who can do some things around here, but alot doesnt get done due to my pain and for that I feel guilty...

[suede]

Digikitty
You have gotten some great advice, however I would just like to add, I would be very hesitant to having any injection without the benefit of fluoroscopy.
Maybe I am just misunderstanding your post.
Linda

[Pike]

If you have sciatica few if any pain meds will help much if at all and remain a functioning human.

I was on the Medical-Go-Round with my back for 3 years … I had a so called pain Dr that did prescribe MSContin but no Dr could or would diagnose my spinal issues as I supposedly had RSD of the foot, fibro and other problems and nobody would listen to me even when I was on a walker and my family Dr was poor.

My so called pain Dr got rid of all pill patients when the hospital got a fluoroscope … the very Dr I needed did not recognize my problem … how would you like him putting a needle in your spine.

It was a blessing as the situation forced me to get a new family Dr who sent me out of town and with one look at me walking and I was diagnosed, an MRI was ordered and confirmed his visual DX … all because a Pain Dr gave up his pill patients.

I pulled a Volkswagen behind me for 3 years, the cable felt like it was around my lumbar spine and went down the back of my legs … I was in hell without hope and just left a Dr that could have helped … if he would have opened his eyes!

The specialist did the injections and I had life again, my back hurts but I was no longer pulling a car uphill with each step.

I get a spinal injection every 6-18 months when I need it and my new family Dr of 6 years writes my prescriptions.

Don’t give up, many MRI`s indicate a wreck for a back and the person feels nothing and works a hard job while some show nothing but the person is in agony, my neck should be giving me fits, it did 25 years ago, my lumbar shows problems but I can say it can be devastating after only a few hours of activity … shopping at Wal-Mart without the electric cart is a killer.

I went to a pharmacist to find a few family Drs that wrote Cll scripts so I could interview a new Dr for my meds without driving hundreds of miles, I didn’t need the Drs names I was given as I picked 2 out of the phone book and the 2nd Dr took me as a patient with meds 10 days at a time … I was also given an extreme lecture about the Drs feelings and controlled substances.

In time and after my records were looked at and I am sure several phone calls were made I graduated to monthly visits then bimonthly.

The stress I went thru with W/C, SS, courts, Drs over 10 years did not help my health, I cut my Valium by 2/3 lost weight eat better swim daily and have a boring life with pain I have enough MSContin to make tolerable …

It sure was a long row to hoe but I accept my life, I do not expect more unless I win the lottery then I will get a place with a view little else would change but I never thought I would live without someone messing with me again (courts) but I made it and the $600.00 a month looks good after years of handouts from my family.

If you can find another caring needle jockey I would bet that you would feel better if he could only remove the sciatic pain, surgeons do not write prescriptions for long so you need to find a Dr that will work with you and the needle jockey for all help possible.

What I mean is that you may need an injection and if surgery is not an option any family Dr can take care of your pain needs if you do not expect to much as pain maybe a fact of live in your future, how much depends on your condition and the Drs choice in pain meds, morphine is the gold standard and without the tolerance I had with oxycodone, hydrocodone, I wouldn’t switch for anything.

When a person lives in a rural area the Drs know who is up to no good as people who get into trouble get their name on the radio several times a day and somewhere in the 12 page daily paper, in the city people seem to be another face in the crowd, at least this is how it seems to me.

Have patience and educate yourself about your condition, don’t be afraid to change Drs or get your reports … it is your body and your life not theirs.

Good luck,

Pike

[Nana4&cntn]

Hi All,

I have had injections with and without Floroscopy. There is a tremendous difference in relief. As my pm stated if you have had injury or surgery to your back the spine is chanced. If you dont use floro, the dr giving you the injection is going in blind. Not a very comforting thought. I will never allow another injection to be done without floro.
As far as the sciatica pain goes I have received help with the use of lyrica and keppra. I realize alot of folks can't take these meds, but, they have been a god send for me. I feel small twinges that are very muted. If that makes sense. The reason alot of docs have gone to opiates is because they dont contain aspirin or tylenol. Somr prople me include cannot take nsaid's due to the implecations it has on the stomach such as Derd and ulcers. Tylenol can cause severe liver damage if used for long term. I trust my pm and am very lucky to have him, as he is caring, supportive and conservative in treatment. He also does not do injections himself, he sends me to a very good anestesiologist.

These are just my opinion, I hope it helps someone in the future.
Kathy

[Digikitty]

oh, I did have my injections with fluoroscopy in the past.sorry, if I didnt address that,Its hard to type and remember.I have 3 neck herniations along with cervical dystonia which is acting very ugly today.My SI joint is a fairly new problem, I am not sure if they plan on using fluoroscopy, but I guess I better find out and soon...I have a new family Dr.His office makes it VERY clear, they dont do "pain meds" so, if they dont and my pain mgt doesnt and my otrho doesnt, who does?

[Nana4&cntn]

DK,

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time with your doc. I would definitely take the film to another doc, like Kandra said an orthopedic surgeon would be best. It is amazing what they can see on a film. As far as a pain doc you might want to look for a physiatrist, not to be confused with a shrink. They are physical rehab docs who are certified to treat chronic pain. I have had great care with mine. I think you can google and find one in your area. Sometimes large hospitals with trauma centers and brain injury rehab have them. That is where I met mine.

I hope this points you in a direction to some additional resources,
Take care,
Kathy

[Nana4&cntn]

Digi,

Haven't heard from you for awhile so I thought I would check to see how you are doing. I hope better than the last time you posted.

Take care
Kathy

[Digikitty]

hi, I went to a pm today, not mine, thank God, but a partner of heres who comes in when she is on vacation.They did my SI joints, cortisone, the full amount..and I mentioned my neck, he said they will have to do trigger points another time.Well, that appt isnt till March 25!:eek:
My Dystonia is really bad and acting up, but I found out today, my insurance wont cover the procedure.I had it done one time and I had a massive amount of relief!Also, they wont increase my Zanaflex nor give me anything else.ugh!MY gen. Dr is supposed to refer me to another pm in town, I havent heard anything as of yet.Also, I called my PM Drs nurse last week, I still havent heard a word! nice huh?:mad: