Sleeping odd hours....

[Diandra]

Hi All,
Do you think sleeping odd hours is connected to opiate use? I never get to sleep before 1 0r 2am but, it is often more like 3-4am and then wake about 10-11am. Does anyone else have this strange sleep cycle?

Thanks, Diandra

[Cervie Barb]

My sleep pattern has changed, but I don't take a long acting opiate. I think the pain keeps me from sleeping very long at any hour.

Lately, I wake up at 9:30-10am, and I really miss the early riser I use to be. I love being up with the dawn.

It will be interesting to see how others are sleeping!

[Mark N]

I have strange sleeping hours and I know my meds contribute to being sleepy but my pain doesn't usually allow me to sleep for more than an hour or two at a time.

[brians2000]

I usually go to bed about 6:00am and sleep til whenever usually about 1:00pm

[Kathi49]

Diandra,

I don't think it is the opiate. Then again, I don't really know. I take Klonopin; 1/2 in the am and then again in the pm. So, it kind of lulls me to sleep. I have ALWAYS gone to bed early...around 9:30 or so. So, I do wake up early...but I think it is all simply my internal clock and coming from years and years of waking up at 5:00 am or so to get to work. I guess I don't really have issues with sleeping other than waking up to the use restroom..but that happens too as we age. :)

[BrokenBladder]

Diandra,

I take both long acting and short acting opiates, but to be honest I don't think that they cause me to stay awake. It's hard for me to get comfortable and so I wake up over and over again and like Kathi said I make many potty trips during the night.
My doctor told me that CP by itself it the #1 cause of sleep issues. I've tried 6 different prescription sleep meds and none of them worked. I think it really has to do with our pain issues.

[slipnslide]

Diandra,

I too am on a whacky sleep schedule. I usually don't get to sleep until after 4am. On thurs. night, I didn't sleep at all so that by friday night when I finally fell asleep, I had been up for 42 hours straight. The odd thing about it was that I didn't even feel tired at all, but laid in bed until I fell asleep and wound up sleeping a whopping 7 hours which is rare for me. I used to be the type of person who could lay my head down anywhere and fall asleep in a heartbeat and nothing could wake me up until my body got the sleep it needed. I don't know whether it's the Rx's or the pain that prevents me from sleeping any more than 4-5 hours. Like Barb, I too will be following this thread to see how others are doing with their sleep patterns.

Kim

[Ponygirl]

Those are My sleep issues, also, and it's making me NUTS!:rolleyes:
So, I do understand.

Phyllis

[gizmogirl]

Being in pain can disrupt sleep. Taking a narcotic and not being used to being able to ignore tiredness a bit longer can interfere with sleep. So the opposite result can happen for different people, or the same person different days.
The things to do are the originals: go to bed at the same time daily. Try to be tired enough. Get more pain relief if necessary. Take an anti-anxiety if that's what's going on. Don't take stimulants or eat for a couple hours before bedtime, etc. etc.
Good luck. It takes some real patience and discipline to get something like sleep under control when other things are out of whack. Worth working on, though. Don't take melatonin unless you are ready to risk having your body lose its ability to produce melatonin by itself anymore. And don't o.d. on melatonin - it can happen for a few people at as little as 3 milligrams, and means you have a night of the worst nightmares that you can't quite wake yourself from.
Don't think you have to just simply WILL yourself into sleeping right. You really have to get a routine down and distractions moved away.

[ErinENj]

I am completely the same. Even if I have work the next day, I'm never in bed before 1am, but more often I'm in bed around 2 or 3. Last night, I was finally in bed and getting ready to sleep around 3:45am.

Part of my issue, and probably the biggest piece of it, is my routines. I do the same thing every night. I have to fix my bed to make sure the sheets are tight and there are no lumps from the sheets or anything, because with my back, I can feel every one in the general vicinity of my low back. I do it the same way, every night. I take my meds the same way every night, and all of that combined can end up taking me something around 2 hours.

Another part of it is that I get exhausted, so utterly that I can't do anything, between 9 and 10ish, and it lasts until something near 1am. So I don't have the energy to start the routines until I get a second wind or whatever it's considered. It's almost better sometimes when I have a day like today, where I've been really busy all day at work and didn't get home until around 9pm. That way, my body seems to be a bit confused and thinks it's earlier than it really is.

I got beyond lucky with my job. Most days, I go in around 11 or 11:30 (depending on if I had a meeting the previous night or like tonight, because I didn't leave my office until nearly 9pm, I'd usually go in around 11:30, but I have something to cover tomorrow morning, so it's an early day. I have to be at a municipal court session at 10:15ish.) but it's really flexible. It depends on the day, since Mondays and Tuesdays are nuts since we go to press Tuesdays, I go in earlier. But on Thursdays and Fridays, I can go in later if I need to. Also, and this is one of the most fantastic things about my job, I have Wednesdays off, so that makes everything that much easier. I never work more than two days in a row. So it gives me a day to sleep in if I don't have a doctor's appointment or appointment with my therapist.

I'm not sure what it is. It definately seems that sometimes it's the meds, or just the pain. But, like everything else, it's something to deal with. I'm on two different sleep meds, plus a dose of dilaudid and muscle relaxers to counter the day's negative effects, and that still doesn't get me to sleep any earlier. I just think it's another weird thing that goes right along with all of the other miscellaneous things that just don't seem to make any sense.

[GardeniaGirl]

I have forced myself to stay on a semi-regular sleep schedule, because I know that if I don't, I will eventually be staying up all night and sleeping all day.

The only reason I can sleep at all is Ambien.

I have been on it for 3 1/2 years and it still puts me out for 7-8 hours most nights -- unless pain is severe or I am in the PMS zone or the night before a huge migraine -- all three of those will blast through the Ambien.

[Diandra]

Hi,

Erin, you made me recognize a behavior in myself that I had just not stopped to think about. Our crazy nighttime routines.

Every evening, I'm completely exhausted by dinner time, even though I don't work a paying job, so I have to really push myself through dinner which escalates the pain. Pain is high, energy is low, I have to take a Norco and a Soma and then go lie down and watch some TV until they kick in. I will watch TV for awhile and often nod off and then get up to do my crazy routine as well....clean the kitchen if my husband has not, refill humidifier,clean the litter box, set up the coffeemaker for next morning, wash up and brush my teeth, change into nightgown, leave a to-do list for next day,etc.

Often, again these tasks tire me and I have to go lie down again and do so on the couch watching TV. Then I take my last painkiller of the day and while waiting for it take effect, again, lie down on the couch to read(Geez....do I lead an exciting life or what!). I don't go into the bedroom until my pain is down and my tossing and turning will not wake my husband and assorted pets on the bed. My husband and I joke that often, just as I am coming to bed he is getting up(he gets up at 4:30am)....we ARE like two ships that pass in the night!

We talked tonight and for the next week I am taking my last pain med (Norco) along with an Ambien and get to bed earlier and hopefully the Ambien will help me sleep longer. I do think the short 4-5 hr cycle of Norco is what is making my life so disruptive...I wake up from the pain every 4 hours not matter where I am and just end up falling asleep in the wee hours because I am so damn exhausted. I did try the MSContin the doc scripted but, just could not tolerate it. Have to talk to him next week about another long acting one. Does anyone know if there is a long acting Dilaudid?

Gizmogirl, you are right, it does take patience and disclipine to get a bad sleep pattern corrected and those are two traits that I have in short supply right now. I just have to really focus on it.

Kim, not sleeping 42 hours straight is incredible. Hope that doesn't happen to you too often.

Thanks for all the input....it has been interesting and I don't feel so all alone in odd sleep pattern.

All my best,
Diandra

P.S. Hope those who know Brion saw the good news he is OK, just not posting. It sure made my day.

P.P.S. GG....our posts crossed...I hope the Ambien works as well again for me as it does for you and I do
have to force myself....Unfortunately, I am a terrible procrastinator.

[suede]

I never had good sleeping habits, now though it is unreal and keeps me exhausted all the time.

Sleeping aides are out of the question as I have yet to try any that have not left me feeling hung over in the morning.

I often wonder what it would be like to sleep through the night and wake up in the morning feeling rested and ready to face the day, my mornings are like,
oh my God it's Morning!!

If I lay for any length of time the the pain is so unbearable it's torture to try and get up. Pain though isn't always the problem many nights I spend dozing off and waking up with that wide awake eye popping, what's wrong !!

Erin, like you though I can not have any wrinkles in the sheets, it feels like I'm laying on a speed bump if there are any, no matter how small. Sometimes I think of the princess and the pea under the mounds of mattresses.

The hardest part is just never feeling rested, I so miss the days of having energy and motivation.

Linda

[A.K.]

I am right there too! What I can't phathom is how you are still holding down a job Erin. Between my pain and my pitiful sleep patterns I don't have the brainpower required to actually function well enough to earn a paycheck. You are amazing!!!

My pain is SO much worse at night and has never been controlled by my meds so even after 3 1/2 years nights are still horrific. If I sleep at all it is not until around 5 - 7 a.m. usually and sometimes later.

Kim, you are living my nightmare on those long stretches without any sleep. Isn't it horrible!!!! I have gone two and three days many, many times. I think you hold the record though at 42 hours and I am not going to try and break that one, okay. :D - you poor thing!!

My very best sleep is usually between around 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. in the daytime if I can just drown out the neighbors dogs and the telemarketers don't start calling. :rolleyes: Actually most of the time I am so tired I don't even hear the phone ring.

I contribute these problems to my pain though not to the opiods because even during times when I have been completely off of narcotics the sleep has still been an issue.

Hope everyone has sweet dreams soon....however and whenever you can get them! :) AK

[houghchrst]

I have found that with Methadone and Morphine I do not sleep well. I toss and turn constantly. That is why I made sure that if I had to take it I would take it early in the AM. I also think that Vicodin and Darvocet do the same to me just not to such a severe extent. I attributed it to being Bipolar II becuase I know that my brain chemistry reacts differently to pain meds. It is kind of a Catch 22 because if I don't take anything then the pain keeps me awake. My psychiatrist has reached a point where my sleep has become a problem and she thinks the doctors need to do a better job of treating my pain because it is interfering with my sleep. The only thing I take regularly , specifically for pain is Ultram.

[ErinENj]

Honestly, A.K. I got beyond lucky with this job, but there are still many days where I don't know how I manage to keep up with working myself. I think the two major things that help are the weekly schedules, since having Wednesday and the weekend to catch up on sleep is phenomenal and makes getting up on Mondays and Thursdays so much easier (Tuesdays and Fridays are rough though), and that I can go in to work later in the day. If I had to be at 6:00 or even earlier like I had to be at my last job, I absolutely would not make it. Oh, and it helps that there are days at work where I can catch a quick 15 minute nap at my desk if need be. I just kind of look like I'm working on the computer and I can get away with a little snooze if it's a quiet day. That's how I made it through my first few weeks there! No wonder I almost got fired for my terrible writing!

I'm terrified about the end of this week and the beginning of next week. I've got a meeting tomorrow night (Wednesday night), two meetings Thursday night, and what will probably be the biggest and most heated meeting I will ever go to on Monday night. Monday's will be the worst since I'll be out late that night and then on Tuesday morning, I'll have to get up early because I need a decent amount of time to write the story before we go to press on Wednesday. So it'll be a long couple of days.

It's made all the worse by my routine at night. When I get home, I typically need some time to decompress. Take tonight for example - I got home at 6:30, ate dinner around 7:30ish, and then just had to lie down for a little while. So I got up around 10-ish to do some things online and take my meds. Then I just kinda sat around for awhile watching TV. Now it's 2:45am and I haven't even started doing my routine. When I finish this, I'll shut down my computer and put my laptop/monitor set away along with the table I put it on to use it (the screen on my laptop burned out, and my mom got me a new cheapo monitor for christmas). Then I'll start taking care of my bed, which'll take me about 10 minutes at the most, and then take my nighttime meds. I find that they work the best when I eat something pretty soon after I take them, so I'll eat and then smoke a ciggarrette (yes, I know, worst idea before bed, but it's even worse going to bed without it because it is such a part of my routine, and if I don't smoke one, I tend to kinda obsess over it and end up getting back up out of bed to do it). Then I sit for awhile, getting things ready for the next day or just wasting time until my meds kick in. Typically, I'll usually end up making the mistake of smoking a second ciggarette, which means I have to wait a few minutes to let my room air out a bit before going to bed. When I finally get into the last stages, I make sure my remote controls (for my actual TV so if need be, I can switch it over to the DVD, and the DVD remote to work that machine, along with my cable box remote) are laid out in their proper space on my bedside table, make sure my alarm is set on my cell phone and check to make sure the battery is charged. I make sure I have water because my throat and mouth tend to get really dry at night while I'm trying to get to sleep, so I want to make sure I have that readily and easily accessible. Then I get into bed after changing into my PJs, and have to get comfortable, at which point I pretty quickly fall asleep.

Yeah, that's a long, long routine. Now it's about 3, so I'll hopefully be in bed around 4. I'm exhausted just thinking about it!!

[A.K.]

Erin,
Do it as long as your body will let you though girl because you have a life outside your walls and blessed independence! Oh how I long for the day when I will be able to work again and earn an income. It's not the money I miss it's the self respect, the sense of accomplishment and just knowing that I did something of value.

All that plus interaction with real live human beings every day!!!! You are living the life.....enjoy!!:D

Seriously, I know it is very, hard and I will pray that you make it through Monday just fine - let me know, okay? - but do stop and count your blessings like how you managed to find that job in the first place :) because you are a superhero to me and you are living a dream of mine.

Keep up the good work and stay strong! A.K.

[slipnslide]

A.K.,

It truly is a nightmare when you don't sleep on a normal/regular schedule. I'm trying desperately to get back on a normal pattern by going to bed earlier, but laying there "bug eye'd" is so frustrating so I usually wind up getting back up until I feel a yawn coming on. I'm setting my alarm and getting up with my daughter so that I can see her off to school and hoping that depriving myself sleep during the daylight hours might shift me back to sleeping at night:) . The one thing I am noticing is that when I am up earlier in the morning, my pain levels are "up" too. It sort of makes me wonder if the morning cold & dampness is what makes mornings so hard to deal with.:confused:

Erin,

I too applaud you! You're amazing.:) I've tried forcing myself to follow a "normal morning routine" of getting up, having my coffee, jumping into the shower, and getting dressed for the day to see how well I can function. I even made it out of the house before 9am;). I drove to my employers to drop off my insurance payment then met my old friends from work for lunch. I actually survived the day, but by evening I was a hurting unit! It kicked my butt for the following two to three days! I don't know how you do it! You go girl!;)

[GardeniaGirl]

Today was such a good example of this sleep problem for me.

I woke up around 6:30am feeling totally nauseated. I got up and took a prilosec, then layed in bed for an hour, then took a promethazine.

I turned the radio on because I couldn't fall asleep.

Finally, I must have fallen asleep, I woke up with the radio still on, it was 10:30. I had been in the deepest sleep. I was feeling like I need to get up, I was supposed to go back to work today after being off the past week out sick.

I dozed off again, had very vivid dreams, and woke up at 11:45am. I was in such a deep sleep it was hard to get myself out of bed, but I forced myself too.

I seem to find that sleeping between 9 and 11am helps me a lot - when I push myself to be up and about by 9 or 9:30, I often end up with a migraine.

At any rate, it is frustrating......

[Kandra]

It's also possible you may have a sleeping disorder..many people with CP do. Do you find yourself becoming very tired during the day? When you do wake up, do you feel that your sleep was restful?

I sleep only 30-60 minutes at a time for a total of approx. 3 hours per night. Yep, have a sleep disorder..and yes, use CPAP but some adjustments definitely need to be made somewhere along the line..heh.

I take Opana every 12h along with Klonopin 2x/day among other meds. My sleeping problems began before chronic pain but having it severely exacerbated it to the point I'd be falling asleep while driving and going off the road (which still happens, sigh).

Take care, and maybe keep a sleep journal..when you're awake and asleep, what you've taken before med etc. to see if you discern a pattern.

Kandra

[gizmogirl]

am praying for you to have sweet dreams, kiddo!

[Diandra]

Hi Kandra,
If I am not being too personal could I ask you some questions about your sleeping and your CPAP?
I know you said the sleeping problem came before your chronic pain problem but, I am curious where in the time line the CPAP machine came into the picture.

It seems so many folks get dx'ed with a sleeping disorder AFTER chronic pain and they get a CPAP machine. Ages ago a neurologist suggested I get a sleep study but my very pragmatic primary guy thought the whole sleep disorder testing was just a scam to make money for hospitals and was totally against it as he had patients who had them and got the CPAP and were not any better. He also said that every patient who ever had the test was told to get a CPAP so he obviously was not a fan of testing or CPAP.( I no longer go to this guy).

If you feel like sharing, would love to know about your CPAP experience. Do you think it has helped you? I honestly cannot fathom trying to sleep with that facemask as I have trigeminal neuralgia(two of my friends have them and feel they have helped them quite a bit.)

Thanks,
Diandra

It's also possible you may have a sleeping disorder..many people with CP do. Do you find yourself becoming very tired during the day? When you do wake up, do you feel that your sleep was restful?

I sleep only 30-60 minutes at a time for a total of approx. 3 hours per night. Yep, have a sleep disorder..and yes, use CPAP but some adjustments definitely need to be made somewhere along the line..heh.

I take Opana every 12h along with Klonopin 2x/day among other meds. My sleeping problems began before chronic pain but having it severely exacerbated it to the point I'd be falling asleep while driving and going off the road (which still happens, sigh).

Take care, and maybe keep a sleep journal..when you're awake and asleep, what you've taken before med etc. to see if you discern a pattern.

Kandra

[MamaRider]

I sometimes fall asleep in my comfy chair in front of the TV, but, usually I sleep off and on in bed reading with the light on. It has gotten to a point I rarely turn off the light at night. I have to be really PURPUSFULL to turn off the light, and turn over in bed and try to get some sleep. Used to be when hubby was woring I would go to sleep for a while after he left.(his snring sorta bugged me) Now that he is home because of the crash then on New Years Eve he got Pancretitis, and spent 8 days in the hospital, during which they took out his GllBladder-so he wouldn't get Pancretitis again (I HAVE HAD TWICE..that is 2 times people!! my sweet hubby said, "yeah but you don't have stones" I told him My Gall Bladder is FULL OF STONES AND I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT OLD PEOPLE JUST LEARN TOLIVE WITH IT!!!!!! (*&^&&*^&^^%$#$$#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 1st Dr I saw told me I was "old fat and took too many drugs" I won't repeat what I said about him.He is the Dr that did the procedure that I ended up getting my first case of Pancretitis. He never TOLD ME THAT MIGHT POSSIBLY HAPPEN> I would have lived with the origanla pain. sheeesh. But back to speeping. I also snore. I know I do, I have heard it. lol. Years ago, I went to wake my hubby up and tell him to roll on his side, but, and i blush ere, he was not in bed-he was working graveyard shift. SHEESH>

I think my meds have messed up my sleep big time. I often doze off during the day. I am back to drinking coffee, which I mix with ALOT of sugar. I got a Coffee makee/Exprssoo Maker for Christmas this year. Becasue I like to add Expresso to my coffee . ANd I make STRONG coffee to begin with. (Hubby reminds meit is supposed to be a liquid--isn't he just a hoot:cool: )

I cannot remember the las time I slept more than an hour or so at a time. EVEn whne I took sleeping meds. So i say, to sleep:rolleyes: Perhaps to dream:eek:

[Diandra]

Mamamider - you are so funny....I have done the same thing waking myself up with my own snoring! Good you can laugh about it.
Diandra