Ok, here's what happened...

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I'm feeling the need to begin documentation so I've decided to start drafting the ordeal here...this is loooooooooong, so you may want to grab a cup of joe:

It all started monday afternoon. I was changing Audrey after her nap when as I was dropping her diaper into the pale she somehow meneuvered off the table. I am still REALLY confused about how she accomplished this. She is just learning to roll from back to belly and can't even do it most of the time. She is so big & heavy that gets there only 2 ways, either by flipping her legs over first, or if she is sitting (which she wasn't) then she leans forward and pulls her legs out from under her. So from that the only thing I can do is assume that she flipped her legs over. But the REALLY weird thing is that she landed face down and somehow did a 180 so that her head and feet were switched...so somehow while I was RIGHT there in front of her she managed to rotate herself in 2 directions before landing. By the time I turned around and noticed I was just catching her landing.

Of course I was paniced! I checked her all over, she was whaling, Coley came running in...we saw no marks, no wounds, no obvious injury...not even a red mark. I was SO worried about her big head...by the laws of physics that HAD to be what made first contact...so first I called DH to put him on alert and watched for all the signs of concusion...

The rest of the day went by, no vomiting, no food refusal, no change in personality, no welts, no bruising, no lathargy, no sleepiness, nothing that would lead me to concluse that she even hit her head. The only thing out of the ordinary was that no and again she would cry...but it was her scared cry, so I assumed she was remembering. She was a bit more clingy, she wanted me to hold her while she drank her bottles and didn't spend too much time in her favorite place (her walker), she just wanted to be held. That and she was sleeping less (something that reassured me that it was NOT a head injury) and she woke crying verus bablbing and playful. So again I concluded she was still shaken up by the event.

By the time we went to bed Monday night we had noticed that she was favoring her left arm. We inspected her arm and saw no bruising, swelling, redness or fever. So we decide we would put her down for the night and if she was unable to sleep (as we suspected may have been the case with her napping), then we would call the ped and head to the ER. She slept soundly through the night.

When she woke a little after 8am Tuesday I noticed that she was still favoring her arm. So I watched her a bit...she was struggling to close her fingers enough to grasp small things like her cheerios, but could grab small toys. But with the small toy it was if she didn't have the strength to lift it to her mouth. So I called the ped and told them what had happened. They of course asked us to have her looked at, and suspected it was a 'nursemaids elbow.' That was explained to me as being a dislocation at the elbow.

Our appointment was for 1:20, the nurse practitioner was the available to examine her, she looked her over head to toe and touched her all over for point sensativity. She examined her entire body before going to her left arm. She concluded that Audrey did not have nursemaids elbow as the only point sensative spot was at her wrist and that she could feel a bulge. She suspected instead a buckle fracture at her wrist. So she splited Audrey's arm and sent us to South Shore Hospital (the closest one) for an X-ray of her lower arm. We were instructed to go home right after the x-ray and that would call us as soon as the x-ray results came in. That if it was as she suspected that Audrey would be all set with the splint, but if it were more than a buckle fracture that she would want us seen by the better orthopedic drs at Children's Boston. Home is closer to CHOB.

Before we arrived home, as we were approaching our neighborhood (3:15ish) we got a call from a different nurse at from the peds office. That South Shore had called in the results and that we needed to return to the hospital, as Audrey needed to be treated immediately. The practitioner had gone for the day by this point and the nurse couldn't explain to me why the more complicated injury was going to be treated at South Shore versus Children's as we had discussed. We speculated a couple things, but finally DH & I decided that the ped wouldn't send us back to South Shore unless they were comfortable with them treating whatever needed to be addressed immediately, so we swung by the house for a fresh bottle for Audrey and headed back.

We were booked into the ER (as instructed) at about 4pm. When we went through triage we were almost sent home, as x-rays were done, and she already had a splint on her arm (god I wish I hadn't argued!). Against the triage nurse's jugement she sent us threw. We didn't wait too long before we were brought into a room and a doctor come by to question our presence there. We explained what happened and she told us that she would need to get the x-rays for the Dr and left (never looking at Audrey).

While we waited (about 5pm-ish) Audrey began fusing and we noticed that her fingers were getting red and swollen, so we alerted the nurse and asked her if they could remove her splint. Also it was time for her to be fed, so we asked if she could be...the answer was no because we hadn't seen the Dr yet and she didn't know what needed to be done. Also she told us to elivate her arm, then left.

Some length of time, maybe 1.5 hours later, Dr. P comes in. I think it may turn out to be relavent to the story to tell you that Dr. P used to work in the same ped office as Coley & Audrey's ped. He asked us what happened and we explain. He looks at her a bit, but not very thoroughly and asks us if we know why we needed to come back. We told him no and that we were concerned. He tells us that she has 2 breaks that it looks like a bend fracture (a green tree fracture). But that the concern is that with a force of impact to do that, that there may be additional breaks at the upper arm as well. Now I'm nearly sick to my stomach, feeling terribly guilty about the fall, and even worse about the delay. He then tells us that he needs to check something and walks away. He comes back and tells us that it would likely be faster to treat her at Children's but the only question is the triage line there. So he offers a solution. If we transfer Audrey via ambulance than we skip the triage line, that they have the 24 radiology (it was well after 6pm by this point) and that her entire arm could be x-rayed faster, and hense casted sooner.

I also mentioned again that the splint seemed to be bothering her and that she was hungry.

Ok, so no decision to make there, right. So he tells us that he is going to call over to Dr V's office (the kids ped) to get his thoughts. About 7pm he comes back and tells us that things are all set and that the ambulance orders are in. That we should just wait for the ambulance there and that he contacted CHOB that they know she's on her way and that we can go a head and feed her.

Just after she finished her bottle a nurse comes over sticks motrin in her mouth, without really asking us much about it, then asks us to remove her cloths to put her in a johnny. She then proceeds to change her splint.

About 8pm the ambulance arrives, we get a car seat all set up for her and head out. DH takes the car and meets us there. I asked him to stop at the house on the way by and get her some more formula and her PJs, and also something for us to eat.

Audrey sleeps on the way over (about 20-25 minutes) it is her first nap since she woke up at 11am, before our ped appointment at 1:20.

We walk in the door at CHOB and I was pulled aside to 'register' while Audrey was wisked around the corner and down to the exam room. The clerk told me it would be quick, but it soon became clear that she expected me to go through all the normal registration info with her, this was Audrey's first visit there, to complete a whole patient profile...I stopped her and told her that Audrey was by herself and I couldn't do that. I had handed her a packet from South Shore that contained all her registration info from there and pointed that out to her...annoyed she let me go. As I turned the corner I saw Audrey whaling and a crowd of nurses around her. I pretty much ran down the hall and grabbed her. One snotty nurse said "well she was fine until we tried to weigh her." In my head I'm thinking 'why were you even touching her without ME!' :mad: But I just picked her up and consoled her, and asked if they got her weight..."yes" So I asked if they were all set, they said yes and that we could go on into the exam room and have a seat.

So a nurse pokes her head in..."still nothing to eat right Mom?"

Me: "Still, huh? We were told to go a head and feed her at 7pm"

Rn (with rolled eyes): "Well, NOW you're going to have to wait!"

About 9pm DH arrives, with bottled water, cheez-its and pumpkin muffins for us...UGH! I need to eat so he hangs onto Audrey and I run over to the lobby to grab a sandwhich from Aubon Pan for us to share.

Apparently an Rn came in while I was gone looking for me and was annoyed that I had gone for food.:rolleyes:

I'm going to stop here for now...Audrey is waking and this is where the fun really starts!

But I should also tell you that Coley is with MIL, and has been since 11:30am.

[JungleWoman]

OMG Kristen! Ok first off, I want to just hug your baby-- and YOU!! We've spent our fair share of hours in the ER too and its so hard on us moms :(

SECOND,

HOLY CRAP!!! I cant believe you were treated like that!!!

My question always is, how come the person who was in a car wreck just after eating a huge meal can have surgery right away and isnt lambasted for eating before coming to the hospital, but youd have to wait?

Thats bullsh!t. Starve a baby all day long??? I dont think so!!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Alright so over the course of the next several hours we have a parade of Drs coming in and asking us basically the same questions over & over & over again.

Pretty much how did it happen. And now telling us that apparently 'someone' has interpreted the breaks as potentially being from seperate events. They all also do an exam.

We remain pretty much calm about it, but begin to get a bit annoyed that the clock is ticking along and still Audrey does NOT have a cast! Nor have we gotten those x-rays of her entire arm.

At 10 pm Audrey is wanting to eat and we are given the ok to feed her.

It's a bit blurry to me as I'm really getting tired and my concern is being pulled in several directions. DH has been up since 5am and he is clearly showing signs of exhaustion and needs to be able to drive through the icy streets, Coley is STILL with MIL who needs to be at work at 6:30am and Audrey STILL has not napped properly and is clearly getting stressed! Her face is breaking out terribly with eczema, to the point that all the Drs are commenting on it as they examine her.

I think it was about 11pm when a representative from CSS comes in, very nice and asks us a ton of questions. We answer them and she seems to be pretty ok with that, and leaves.

We are trying to be understanding about the fact that we are at the top children's hospital and that they are likely dealing with all sorts of things, but we are starting to lose our patience with the length of time it's all taking. By this point no one has mentioned anything about the x-rays or about getting her casted. So we ask for someone to talk to about that.

And I go off to use the ladies room. When I get back there is someone in the room with DH asking him questions. And he is clearly getting nervous, and says "I don't think so". So I say "What's up?" And DH says she was just asking if there was a possibility that there was another injury, so I say "NO! Absolutely not!" And she walks out.

The orthopedic resident comes in, and tells us that there is an indication that there may be a 3rd fracture above her elbow and that they are wanting to do a full skelatal series. I express some concern about the amount of radiation, but I am reassured that it is not a concern. Without them actually telling me anything I kinda assumed from that, it would be only a couple x-rays, maybe because she's the length of a mans arm...:confused:

Somewhere around 1am we are brought up to x-ray where they are horrified and confused by the order. They ask us to wait out in the waiting area while the radiologist pages the Dr who ordered the slides. We explain to them why it was being ordered, but they were not satisfied and asked us firmly to either return to the ER or wait in the waiting room.

Shortly before 2am they call us back, and are preparing for the work. They call down to ER requesting assistance due to the 'amount' of work and time. DH & I start asking questions...how long, how many, etc.

"24 x-rays and an hour +"

So now I start getting nausous! I am a reck...there is no F'N way I'm letting her get exposed to that amount of radiation...I ask if they are concerned about that, and they (the radiologists) say that they are.

So DH & I start reeling..WTF! That's it, I decide we need to contact the pediatrician, there needs to be some coordination here, some input...this can't be necessary, particularly at 2am, when Coley is STILL with MIL and Audrey STILL has not slept since that little nap in the ambulance. PLUS she needs to eat again and I have NOTHING! Not to mention the fact that she's had no pain meds either.

So we march back down to the ER and pull the nurse in. We explain that we need to figure out how to get this done much quicker, that we needed to get home to Coley and that Audrey is in discomfort, needs to eat hasn't had any pain meds, is cold, we are exhausted and DH still needs to be able to drive...

They express that there could be something wrong that would cause her to easily break bones and that we need to look into that. And they give me some formula...but Audrey refused it.

I respond that while I am concerned with that possibility as well, that I didn't feel like we needed to be looking into that at 2am PARTICULARLY without her pediatricians involvement. I passed along Dr V's number and asked that they call him. She tells me that she is going to talk to the ER Dr and have him come by.

Well....ready people...

We tell him that we needed her treated ASAP, that we understood their concern but that we have another, etc. etc. etc.

His response..."You cannot leave and if you do you will be arrested"

"WHAT! You are forcing us to stay! What about Coley?"

So DH & I attempt to deal with the shock of that, and try to discuss options with the Dr. He basically tells us that there are no options. That we have absolutley no input into anything that the series WILL be done and if we refuse that they can get a court order. Then he says "please don't make me do that"

I am absolutely stunned, and sick to my stomach! Now we now that DH needs to leave to go get Coley, and we are literally backed into a corner. But this is what they wanted. He repeated over & over, that one of us could leave. Course the thought of that is scaring the crap out of me, as I am starting to feel the stress of not everything PLUS not sleeping, getting heart palpatations, feeling weak/anxious, cold & shivery. I've been treated for anxiety before...funny it was during another terrible period in my life where control was removed from me! I recognized the feeling, but I knew I had no choice and just tried to hold it together.

We packed up all our things and went up to radiology..it's now 2:30. I wanted to puke the entire time. Me & DH nelped them, but one radiologist had to keep running back & forth...it was clear they NEEDED our help and that they likely needed a 3rd radiologist as well. So I asked them if they could call someone up from the ER to help so that DH could leave...they did and a nice girl came up that was very gentle with Audrey. But the radiologist was HORRIBLE! She was SO rough with her, slamming her around the table, yanking, pulling, squishing and stretching her fractured arm. Both me & Audrey were bawling. I got repramanded numerous times for picking her up to console her.

When it was all done they asked me to sit and wait while they uploaded the slides to make sure they all came out before going back down. While I held Audrey for dear life, they gave me a blacket FINALLY and she fell asleep in my arms. I just sat there confused, scared, horrified, nervous...about five minutes goes by and they come back in...they need to redo a couple because Audrey had moved...:eek:

So I try to gently place her down on the table so that we might be able to get the last ones done without waking her...no such luck, the radiologist starts barking orders, startles her and then yanks her into position. So now I'm really losing it! And I toss out what would be the very first of a long list of nasty remarks to people...

It's now about 3:30. I say: "Isn't it a form of torture, deprive someone of sleep to the point of exhaustion, then let them fall asleep for a minute only to wake them up, over & over & over again.?"

I get a couple of obnoxious looks! And they usher me to the waiting room to wait for them to upload the remainder of the slides before allowing me to go back down to my holding cell, I mean the ER exam room.

On my way there I pass by the A-hole that told me we'd be arrested...and with a smile and very condescending tone asks me how it all went.

My response "I DO NOT want to talk to you!" and tears are streaming down my face. And I take Audrey into the room. It's after 4am at this point.

Ok, I'm going to stop again here...yes folks it gets even better!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

When Dr. A-hole kindly informed us that we had lost all parental control...

DH & I said: hang on a minute...we were transfered here for immediate care, so that Audrey would be x-rayed & casted.

He then replied: "well I don't know what was told to you at South Shore, but when they called us it was specifically for this purpose"

Ahhhhh, Dr. P has LIED to us! But wait, what does that mean about the whole ambulance ride??????? We just sat there dumbstruck! And he loved every minute of it!

[peglem]

So, all this time YOU are being accused of child abuse THEY are not treating her injuries, but only trying to gather evidence to nail you? EEEERRRRRRGGGG.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

YEP!!!!!!!

So wait, I forgot one more thing too...sorry Coley was bugging me to play a game so I rushed through the 2nd chapter there...

Ok, so while Coleman & I were sitting there numb and trying to figure out WTF! we were going to do about Coley, MIL and the fact that he had a major deadline the next day, all while trying to figure out how to manage this situation...and basically thinking about this out loud in the presence of Dr A-hole, still thinking he is going to HELP us & Audrey...we asked how long the entire process takes...

He said it could still be a number of hours that after the x-rays they have to wait for the orthopedic specialist to read them before making a final assessment and he doesn't know when that person will be available.

So DH somehow asked why we weren't informed of this so that we could have been better prepared (food and child care specifically), and Dr. A-hole shrugs his sholders and says he doesn't know that normally they admit for this. So DH asks why we weren't admited and he just says he doesn't know.

[JungleWoman]

ok this is making me cry-- kristen my heart is aching for you all :(

[RathyKay]

Well, I'm sick to my stomach and it has nothing to do with all of the chocolate I've eaten today.:( So... Tuesday was the day that never ended? But you said Audrey "just woke up" (awhile ago now), so it sounds like you at least still have your kids. Has she been treated? Are you under investigation? Or do I have to be patient and wait for the rest of the story?:o

I remember reading in Tom's hospital report (back in the dark, ugly days when we almost lost him) after he'd been in the NICU for a few days something along the lines of "the parents were crying and asking appropriate questions." It was kind of strange reading that about us and made me wonder if part of it were just in case they suspected abuse or whatnot on our part. Nothing ever happened to us.

Anyway, I guess I better wait and see what else you post. (((Hugs))) for all of you.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Ok, so Audrey & I are just sitting in the ER exam room in a plain straight backed chair while she slept...I am holding her and literally having a breakdown...I'm really not sure if it was emotional or nervous, seriously...it could have been both. I was just crying without control. There was a woman across the hall waiting with her child and looking at me, I could tell she wanted to come over but knew she couldn't.

After some length of time Audrey is starting to break my back, so I lay her on the table without waking her. I was of course terrified of her rolling off so I just sat in that chair right up against the table with one hand on her and my head laying in front of her. She was sleeping, but there was no way in hell I could.

Sometime around 5am a yahoo busts in and loudly announces that she's there just to get a couple signatures to authorize admission. I absolutely freak-out. Admission? Admission for what purpose? The woman says she doesn't know. I tell her that I am NOT signing anything until someone comes to tell me WHAT she needs to be admitted for. And yes, this whole thing wakes Audrey up again.

I am BULL, plus REALLY feeling weak now. I'm shaking and shivering from exhaustion and I'm seriously concerned that I may pass out. She's whaling again, so irritable.

Just a recap: It's 5am-ish...

That's 17 hours after this all started, 19 hours since Audrey has slept, 7 hours since she's eaten anything, 10 hours since she's recieved any pain meds, 9 hours since we arrived at CHOB, and STILL does NOT have her cast!

I know the only thing I can do to calm her down is rock or pace her back to sleep, but I am worried about me doing that. I decided that if I were to faint or have some sort of heart attack or something that I should make sure that there is someone there to immediately deal with Audrey and hoped they didn't leave me for dead. So I decide I'll pace her up & down the corridor until she falls asleep then put her back down.

It didn't take long before she conked out, maybe a couple trips up & down...20 minutes or so. So it's roughly 5:30. I carefully lay her down again and reposition myself so that she won't fall and I can atleast rest my throbbing head.

At 6am the orthopedic resident comes in. I am glad to see him because he likely has news and he is the person who will cast her. I can barely even speak without blubbering at this point. I just ask him with tears and crackling voice, "Can we cast her now?" He obviously knows that a good deal of my tears had to do with the fact that once again she would be woken up. His response was simply a nod of the head and "I think I can do it without waking her." And he nearly did. He was awesome. He tells me the slides were fone that the Sr radiologist has reviewed them and that he has looked at them as well.

There are 3 fractures but that the 2 of them are comfortable that they all occured at the same time. I nearly lose it. But then he tells me that the orthopedic specialist still needs to review them and sign off on them...that nthey don't know when that will happen and he thinks I should consent to the admission. So I asked what's the point. What time is he in? He tells me 7-8ish, so I'm thinking I've already been in this stinkin room for this many hours, what is the point now...but he's not there to convince me, just to cast her, and lets me know that he really shouldn't be telling me because he doesn' thave the final say. He also tells me that someone will be coming in to talk to me now that my husband has gone home. Once done he leaves, and I'm able to rock Audrey back down easily.

Shortly after that another Dr comes in, he's just gotten in but has been updated and just wanted to come in to talk to me. Well that just pissed me off completely because Audrey is now up again, because Dr. Friendly walked in and turned on the lights without a single thought to anything.

It's now close to 7am. I'm not even sure what the idiot said to set me off, it probably doesn't even matter. I was at my breaking point. Over 24 hours and no sleep for me. My last meal was a half of sandwich at 9pm. I'm ready to rip someone a new one, BIG TIME!

I ask him when we will be done, I think he may have asked about the admission too...I'm thinking in my head that they just want to bill the insurance for a night stay, since technically I was there, but hell if I let them make money off of that, so I push for a good reason for the admission. He tells me that this guy has lots of things to do and may or may not even get to our films in that day. Well that just about did it for me.

I just started venting....

YTou people, at what point does this end? Do you have any idea what you are doing, you don't care, blah blah blah....

His response, Very condescending, "Now why would you think I don't care"

Well, let me count the ways:

1. You've got a scap of a possibility that someone in another hospital thinks may have happened. This person that does't know us from a hole in the wall. And from that you want to justify her stupidity!

2. All you care about is your legal obligation and you are blindly torturing and ABUSING my family!

3. We arrived here at 8 pm last night, and 10 hours later she gets her cast!

4. You have yet to provide one scrap of food for my daughter.

5. She has NOT been given any pain meds

6. You REFUSE to allow her to sleep!

7. The pain and abuse that was inflicted upon her in radiology was appauling and far worse than anything you could likely imagine we've done to cause this...all for what I KNOW to be unecessary.

You don't care about my son, you don't care about my husbands job, you don't care about my MIL....and to top it all off I'm having anxiety attacks, feel faint, haven't eaten am not allowed to leave and NO ONE HAS OFFERED!

He just started toward the door and walked out while I was going off...

I don't have a clue who he was.

But suddenly after blowing off all that steam I realized 2 more things:

Every single Dr has commented in a concerning way about Audrey's eczema, and nothing has been offered to treat that either. I know we aren't there for that, but that's a pretty irritating thing, why didn't they come back with some cream or ointment for her? Maybe they planned to do that when they offered her some tylenol...:mad:

Then I also thought about the fact that they simply didn't care if I did faint...showed absolutely no care about that at all, and I was the ONLY one looking after her.

They REALLY had NO concern for her. So what was this all about??????

I decide that's it, I'm calling DH & hauling his but out of bed and then the ped. I go out and DEMAND a phone, cuz no cell phones and all.

This is kinda a bad spot tostop again, but I gotta go do bedtime. I'll try to finish up the story tonight, if I don't get the chance, I'll stop by tomorrow....

Thanks for listening!!!!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Ok, so I walk out of the room go to the Drs station and ask for a phone, that I'm calling her ped, that this has gotten WAY out of control and needed to stop. They say oh great because we called and haven't heard back yet, all like that was supposed to scare me or something. Probably not realizing that I was the one that asked for them to call the ped at 2am...I was just glad that they had tried. But knowing my Drs office, if they hadn't heard back yet is was likely because they had just recently called.

I grab the phone, it was cordless so I walk back to my room. It's still before hours so I get the on call person. I tell that person, Karen that I was trapped in the ER being accused of child abuse and needed to talk to Dr V (who owns the practice and is Coley's ped) or Dr. K (who is Audrey's ped) ASAP. That we had been there for almost 12 hours and that she was not being cared for in all this time.

She said she would track them down but that they would be calling me back through the ER desk.

So I got to walk out of the room with the intention to pace Audrey to sleep again while I waited to hear back, but was stopped by a woman, not sure what her capacity was. She says we have a problem and she needed to talk to me. Now I'm REALLY scared, thinking that the orthopedic specialist looked and came to some horrifying conclusion or something. So I take a deep breath and ask what the problem was. She tells me that the orthopedic specialist was not reviewing them yet, but the slides were being reviewed and 2 of them need to be retaken. So now I'm ready to explode again...because I KNOW already that the images that started this whole thing are clear and show that they are all from the same injury...but I don't violate the kindness of the orthopedic resident. So I ask WHY!? She tells me Audrey moved for one of them and another shows a black spot that they want to look at more clearly.

She tells me that the ortho may not even need them, but if he does that it will just mean a further wait for new x-rays and then his time to see them.

My response was that I was past any point of being able to make any sort of rational decision. That all I could say is that I don't want to expose her to more radiation needlessly - period. But that they would need to wait for my husband to come back for any more decision, to just leave me alone until then.

I think she was going to try to convince me more, but as soon as she began to talk I flipped out again and said I just can't think straight anymore and walked out. I walked to the end of the corridor, turned around and saw them all around the room, I just couldn't go back there. I looked to my left and there was a gerny (sp) and an empty corridor. I just took Audrey sat down and bawled my eyes out. It was quiet and I was starting to feel calm. Hoping that they would just leave me alone. I thought I could just go back to the room shut the door and rest until Coleman got there. When all of a sudden I hear this woman:

"Yes Hi, I'm at the ER front desk and there appears to be a possible elopment, can you send someone down here please"

I stood up and screamed at her: "NO THERE IS NOT! I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!!"

I go back toward my room, but of course my yelling startled Audrey. I'm trying to get her calm, but I'm not, so there's no way it's going to happen. I walked past my room to the other end of the corridor. I can barely see I'm crying so bad, my legs are weak and I just want to sit down. I turn around and kinda stand there uncertain about what to do. A woman at that desk (there's no exit there) asks in a very concerning way do you need something. And all I can manage to say is that I have no idea what I need anymore, and start walking back, hoping Audrey will lay her head down...as I got close to my room a GIANT security guard appears out of no where, I tried to just sorta walk around him and keep pacing with Audrey, but he spreads his legs, puts his hands on his hips and asks "EXCUSE ME MAM, WHERE ARE YOU GOING?" So I tell him that I am pacing my daughter and could I get by. He said "NO I"M SORRY I CAN"T LET YOU DO THAT"

I demand the phone again and go back into the room. I recall DH and make him come RIGHT AWAY. And go back out. I over heard the guard being told to pace behind us, or plant himself at the exit. So now I get to pace again. As I do, the guy in the room next to me stops me. He clearly knows what's going on, and he distracts me. We are right beside the Drs desk though and they and many other patients can hear what I'm saying. I pretty much sum up our experience for him.

At about 8am while standing there they walk over with the phone. It's Dr. K, and I nearly lose it just because it's a friendly and familiar person from outside the twilight zone.

Ok, another bad place to end, but Audrey is not settling and I gotta go get her...hopefully I'll be back tonight.

[AKF]

It just keeps going from bad to worse! Oh, I can't even imagine how horrible this has been. I'm so thankful that at least I know you all got home together.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

The first thing she says to me is that I need to calm down. She understands why I am upset, she doesn't know but wants to hear the whole story, but that right now in order for me to get out of there I needed to do as they say and to stop being so upset. That she thought I should do the x-rays and consent to the admission.

So I tell her first that no one has told me what the purpose of the admission is, infact we have gotten very little information beyond the fact that Dr. P lied to us, and I explain that. And that we are waiting on the orthopedic specialist to review the slides and then we can go.

In the meantime Audrey is not being cared for, hasn't eaten hasn't slept, hasn't recieved any pain meds, Coleman & I were intentionally seperated, and it's beginning to feel as though they are attempting to bring me to my breaking point. Which they are close to doing. But I have clearly told them that it will NOT bring me to beat my child, it will bring me to a full blown anxiety atttack and they seem to not care about that. I have not slept nor have I eaten and that they will not allow me to get something nor have they offered. I feel very weak and I'm afraid that I am going to faint. She tells me to go into my room and pace in there, shut the door and don't say another word to anyone. I then told her I attempted that, I even asked them directly that I wanted to talk to no one except the orthopedic Dr until DH arrived, but that they are ignoring that request. She then tells me that they said to her that they don't understand my behavior, that I was doing fine and then suddenly I fell apart. She said take a deep breath and try not to say anything else to them that will add fuel to their case and to have DH call her when he gets in. She told them that I was a good mom and that they are dealing with an exhausted sleep deprived person.

While I was talking to her I tried to close the door but was prevented by the Rn, so she and several others including the security guard over heard.

Shortly after I hung up the nurse came running over with a bag of cheez-its. I just looked at her, puzzled...and say, she can't eat that. She gets annoyed at me, in my head I'm thinking, have I left the rational world here...I have a 10 mo in my arms...ya she looks like she's 15 mos old, but who the hell gives a baby cheez-its when they haven't eaten in 9 hours???????? Then she says all flippin and what not...well what does she eat then. So I say formula. She says: but you told me she wasn't taking it. And I tell her, I still NEED formula. She then says, well I don't know what you want then and walks away.

Now I'm like huh!? I need to check that sign on the way out...I'm at CHILDREN'S hospital still, right????? Am I missing something here????

Then she pops back in 2 seconds later...with a syringe full of tylenol. I just look at her, and say NO! We can't give her that. And she again just walks away, no "what can she have" or "why not" or anything else....had she asked, had anyone asked I would have told them plainly that until we know better what is causing Coley's intolerance to meds & fructose we don't give it to Audrey either. Instead she gets acedaminophin (sp) supositories only...which I'm sure they have. But not one person asked about her and her needs ever!

So she comes back one more time (clearly being forced against her will) and says "can I get anything for you mom, maybe some water" and I swear to god the first thing that popped into my head was "don't you EVER call me mom" but I bit my tongue and said no thank you, as I still had several left from the ones DH brought. So she makes a snide remark...well I don't know what you want from me, you refuse everything I offer.

I'm sure with that she had a comment added to the file about me refusing meds and food for both of us.

I then close the door, shut the light and rest with Audrey on the table.

Not too long after another yahoo walks in, wakes Audrey, and I just snarl at him kinda...I firmly ask "Are you the orthopedic specialist?" and he says no, I think he got the point and walked out. We were able to rest a while until Coley and DH showed up about 9am. They walk in and Audrey lit up seeing them.

Coley first words (as loud as ever)...Mommy where were you, I missed you, why didn't you come home, and why does Audrey have a cast? He came running over and gave me a big hug.

I gave Audrey to DH to feed, and ran over to aubon pan again. I was so passed hungry I was nausious, all I could do was get a juice and go back. But just feeling like I had the freedom to walk out of the ER relaxed me SO much! I took a deep breath and went back in. He brought some muffins and bananas so I had a few bites, and let him call Dr. K.

And then Dr. V calls DH on his cell. He talks to DH for a while, then talks to me. He tells me that he is VERY irrate at the entire situation, he is sorry that Dr. P lied to us and that he will take it up with him directly. That the only thing he could say to me about it was that obviously even Drs lie, and that at this point we needed to work ourselves out of this 'legal' mess by following the rules. As sick as it made me I agreed, we will do the flippin x-rays. So we go up to radiology, the whole lot of us, including the security guard.

While we were there waiting, a guy walks in "I'm looking for Coleman," DH yells "Yo" and he comes over and tells us that he's been sent up to help out. We're a little confused, but ok. He's really really nice to Coley, plays & colors with him, and goofs around a little with Audrey, although she is in NO mood...so he just strokes her little hair and talks really softly to her.

A little while goes by and we are called over to the X-ray waiting area. DH stays with Coley to color, and me & the aunterage (sp) go over to the x-ray area. While we wait he asked me why there was a security and what happened. So I tell him. He is flabbergasted. But tells me he has seen it before. THEN tells me he has no idea how I didn't go off, that as a parent he would have lost it long ago...I then told him that apparently they feel I have lost it...and we kinda b!tch about it for a little while.

Then this woman comes over..."Mrs. J?" So I say, "yes" She sits beside me, she's very professionally dressed and looking sophisticated...I can tell she is WAY up there on the totem pole, and I'm petrified...I'm thinking she's the specialist or something...and she's looking like she's got something hard to say...I brace mayself.

She then tells me that she is a pediatric case worker, and I nearly fell to pieces, but Walter had his hand on my shoulder. She goes to say, "my job is" and I cut her off...I was so scared..."I know what your job is" (not smart, just like, I know, you don't need to say, just please say what you need to say)...so she says, well you might know, but let me just tell you..."my job is to review cases of potential child abuse"... and at this point I can barely hold back tears, I'm so scared...she must see my expression so without a breath she says "but my other job, and probably more important job, and what I feel my job is here today, is to make the determination when there is NOT a case of child abuse."

OMG you guys...I couldn't even control myself...I was blubbering...both of them were hugging me and Audrey was once again asleep in my lap.

ok, I need to stop again...but believe it or not, this is not the end...almost though...

[Isabelle]

my blood was boiling :mad: reading your detailed account, remembering my own struggles for my son's sanity :mad:

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

ok. So she appologizes for what we have been through and promises that it is over now. But then she says that we still need those x-rays. So I question it. She says that the x-rays that they need are of her arm. I ask why and she says that they need to make sure that it was set in the cast properly.

Then imagine this, she starts to tell me that Audrey's arm should heal in under 6 weeks, that there should be no lasting functional problems....you know all that stuff you would think they'd do when treating an injured person. She says that I will need to bring her back into to see ortho in 1 week, etc. etc.

Of course in my head I'm thinking that I will NEVER step foot in that hospital again! But I let her continue, but do tell her that this is the absolute first time that anyone has spoken to me about Audrey's actual health status or care. And she seemed kinda shocked by that.

She writes her name and a phone number on a piece of paper, and then says if I want to talk to an advocate that I can call that number. But as a favor she would like to ask me to call her after I have caught my breath and can think clearly again. She knows that nothing that I say or suggst will ever be able to help to change what we endured over the prior 14 hours, but that maybe "the process" could be modified so that others don't go through that.

I'm like: "process" that was a process, but was so tired and confused I couldn't even figure out what it was that I was trying to make sense of, ya know?

So I assured her that the facility would be recieving a scathing letter...but I did agree to think about contacting her. She also told me that I could call her if I had any questions what's so ever.

So a few minutes later we go in for the x-ray and the security guard is told she can leave. Oh I forgot to tell you that the mountain man's shift ended at some point and a woman was sent down to relieve him. She basically sat in a chair and eyebawled me the entire time...uncomfortable but much better than being intimidated by Mount Security.

After that we go back down to the ER where one nice person talks to us after another. Are we hungry, would we like to place an order...Course I'm half irrate with that, because this was possible ALL NIGHT LONG! It's now becoming more & more clear that they were infact trying to push me.

We get our discharge papers and leave.

For the remainder of Wednesday the entire family slept. Audrey woke for a feedign but would then go right back down. It was like this pretty much through Friday.

While she slept I made a few calls. I have a couple more to go.

Coley's God Mother is an attorney and works as a clerk magestrate in family court.

A good friend of the family is an attorney and child advocate.

And I think I need to call that case worker back too...I think I need to find out exactly what the process was that we were subjected too.

I've talked to the practitioner to find out from their perspective what happened...

I'm still a little unclear about what was said to them and when we were directe back to South Shore...whether information was foggy to them then or what...I need to find out what happened there.

But what we do know is that the radiology tech was obligated by law to raise her concerns. From there we are assuming that somehow the hospital decided to get us back there for an exam...which never happened.

SO it seems the whole decisio nto report us and all was all based 100% on the x-ray and nothing to do with any other information...which I think I have grounds to sue on...that I'm sure is NOT protocol.

No Dr, no tech, and no other represtative from south shore (or anywhere else for that matter) ever spoke to the examining Dr (the practitioner) which makes NO sense.

And then you'll LOVE this people...I asked what happened when Dr. P called about transporting us. He NEVER said a word to any of them (they were all together at their Christmas party) He (Dr. P) knew that and could have spoken to ANYONE when he spoke to the on-call person. But all he did was say that they were transfering us over to Children's so of course the on-call person said fine. And that was that! No one at Dr. V's office knew anything until my call at 7am!

I swear I am going to own that man's house when I am threw with him!

[peglem]

There's so much here, let's see if I got this straight. The 1st radiologist suspects something wanky with the xrays and reports it. Then about 1,000 medical type people pass it up the chain w/o examining her at all, just about all of them already convinced that you are a child abusing monster, AND they left her completely untreated for nearly 24 hours. Is that right?

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Yep, all while they investigated us! But not just didn't treat her injury, they basically neglected her basic needs and mine.

I'm pretty sure that they violated our human rights. I don't think that prisoners are treated as badly as we were.

[moose53]

I hate to tell you Kristen, but, that whole thing started with Brockton. That place is an animal house. I wouldn't take a deceased, embalmed dog there.

I hate that this has happened to you guys and to your kids.

I just wanted to give you a big http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/moose53/MINIS/HUGS/huggiebears.gif and tell you that you are an **AMAZING** Mom. I would have been ripping lungs out half-way through that experience.

I know from my own experience with malpractice concerning my Mom that there isn't a heck of a lot that you can do.

Report the doctors, report the hospitals, report the whole screwed-up process. That last woman that you spoke with is right, the "process" needs to be fixed.

Brockton. Jackasses :mad:

Hug those sweet babies of yours extra tight. You deserve tons of hugs from thankful babies that they have the Best Mom protecting them. BIG HUGS.

Barb

[mc4_a]

Wow, amazing. That's really terrible. I suggest looking to a lawyer for advise. Additionally, I'm sure the local media would be interested in this story. I would condense this down into a few bullet pointed facts and use that as a way to begin the conversation.

The scope of the story is so big I worry about people understanding it without having it watered down.

[GinaMarie]

Im so sorry you had to go thru it and also so glad it ended so quickly. It brought back so many memories when Noah was a baby and I had CPS (Child Protective Services) called on me (by a teacher at my sons school) because "they thought I was starving him and he was malnourished". I've had them called on me twice. The first time I went into a depression and didnt eat for a week. People couldnt believe CPS was called on me. They said you CONSTANTLY have your kids in the doctors. If we went 3 weeks without Noah in the doctors they were calling me because Noah constantly had ear infections and when one ended another one started. He took a YEAR to double his birth weight. We had him tested for CF and changed his formula from milk to soy and finally at a year old the regional center changed him to Neutromegin before he finally started gaining weight. When CPS first showed up Noah and I werent home. Thier dad and the other boys were here but they said they had to see Noah. I contacted my worker with the regional center and she contacted the CPS worker. By the time they go a time for both of them to come out together and my worker explained all they are doing for Noah (teachers, therapists, doctors, specialists, etc.) the CPS worker said "We dont need to be here"..

Then another time someone reported that my kids were living in unhealthful living conditions. Again I wasnt home. My husband was living here then and his friend was living with us (7 living in a 2 bedroom house). Art (Mikes friend) was here with Caleb (about 5 yrs old then) sleeping. They said they heard knocking on the door and when they opened the door there was a bunch of police at the door and they said they were here to search my house. They came in and searched each room. They said it wasnt bad just needed some housekeeping.

I get so nervous even more now because of my disabilities because I have a harder time trying to clean because of all the pain Im in and my balance issues. Im always afraid of them coming or being reported. There were times I've taken my boys into the doctors for something that happened and they said I had to fill out an accident report.. I was scared to death about that also. I was afraid of being reported for that also.

I hope you can relax now and enjoy Christmas. Did they give her a colored cast? or just a plain boring white one?

SUPER hugs to you and the kids
Gina Marie

[Isabelle]

Yep, all while they investigated us! But not just didn't treat her injury, they basically neglected her basic needs and mine.

I'm pretty sure that they violated our human rights. I don't think that prisoners are treated as badly as we were.

their defense will be that they follow "process" or their protocol to rule out abuse, because they wouldn't want to be accused of neglect of duty. they have many rules but little discernment so they go to the extreme, they should see that the child was in good shape, the family had a ped, the child was not scare of her parents....etc. better err that regret for them, it'd cost money.

the non-verbal adult autistic has no rights, when I looked for advice to protect my son from meds. I phoned a lawyer about his rights, he asked me after listening for 30 minutes if he speaks, I said no, he doesn't have rights....good thing another lawyer who knew us for over 25 years and intervened...

[mrsjerome]

This had to be the nightmare of nightmares for you. Now it seems they will be playing like “Hot Potato” with you. No it’s not my fault it’s this one fault pass the blame on to somebody else. We didn’t know just doing our job.
Waiting for Audrey to even be attended to is neglect on their part. It is inexcusable and something is definitely wrong in this establishment of a hospital .
If you feel strongly about this as I suspect anyone would and you have or can gain access to an attorney that specializes in this type of case, By all means go out and try and get some accountability from them There had to be a chief in charge . Maybe an attorney can gain access to what and why and who was responsible for this fiasco.
This might be your best recourse if you choose to go that route.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Barb, it wasn't Brockton Hospital, it was South Shore Hospital in Weymouth. Although I'm not sure they are too much better. Thing is we just went there for the dam x-ray! She was never supposed to be treated there! And she was NEVER examined there although I'm sure that Dr. P's report will imply that she was!

My neighbor is a NICU Rn there, and today I grabbed her on her way out and asked her about Dr. P. She called him Lazy. I tried not to tell her what happened, but she was shocked I was asking about him and wanted to be reassured that we were not going to be bringing either of our kids to him. :rolleyes: So I gave her a little idea of what happened. Her advise was to report him to the medical board.

I spoke to my friend that is a child advocate attorney. I was never real clear on what he did. Most of the stories I've heard are about real abusive situations and how he respresents those kids, like in foster situations & things. Basically caring to the degree a parent would and making sure that their care is upheld, like therapies and such. And when they get older and get themselves into trouble (due to behavioral or emotional issues) he steps in to defend them and works with the judge for more constructive soutions.

I figured he'd either be able to give us advise, reassure us, or point us to someone that could help...after telling him what happened, he will be representing us.

He says that the x-ray tech overstepped and CLEARLY Dr. P did NOT follow proper protocol. As for Children's we will be lodging a formal complaint. We will be obtaining records and making sure that the records in all 3 places (South Shore, Children's and the peds) have the complete report. Likewise with DSS.

His advise, and I'm putting this here for you all, and pass this on to every mom you know...

NEVER talk to any doctor ever, without first making sure that you have their name, position, and function written down. He suggest having pen & paper with you always. He's also suggested that I keep his number along wiht all those other emergency childcare numbers so that it's ALWAYS handy. If I had it with me at the hospital I would have called him. He says he would have been able to help. That they should have NEVER proceeded without input from the examining doctor, and any investigation SHOULD have included input from Audrey's ped...not to mention a review of their own records with Coley.

Also, this may not apply to you guys, but I don't have a cell phone...I'm home all friggin day, ya know...he told me to get one of those prepaid ones and keep it in the kids bag with al the other medical stuff.

He also said to NEVER talk to Rns and admin people about medical actions from the peds office...I should have asked the Rn to have the ped call me to clear up my confusion...or just ask to talk to the Dr before proceeding as you're unclear or whatever.

In the short term we are not to open our door to anyone. He will contact DSS to assure us that the case is in fact closed...since we cant believe what we've been told, as there is now a pattern of lies. But that can't be done until after the holiday.

Also, if we are contacted for an appointment, they are to be referred to him for scheduling.

So, here's my advice. Find yourself a family/juvenile attorney. You don't need to retain them, but just find one and write the number down in the event that you EVER need to contact one in the middle of the night or if you are somewhere that you cannot look one up. Lord knows with these kids that there is enough chance that something god aweful could happen that people could misinterpret. Keep safe girls.

His final advice was to NEVER trust the medical professionals or anyone else that comes in contact with your family (schools, doctors, etc). There is no need to act hostile, but approach ever situation very carefully. For example, he told me that I should have been asking questions back as each person entered the room. EVEN in the absence of feeling as though something fishy was going on. No assumptions. Every person that walked through the door I should have had a question in return for every question they asked. Even if it was something as simple as "what exactly are you asking me with that question." Or "why do you need that information" Even if it is obvious. Ask ask ask. It will slow things down.

He also told me that I should have told them that untl Audrey is fed that I would not talk to anyone. Not obnoxiously, just 'one thing at a time' sorta thing...."right now my priority is to feed my hungry baby, could you first get her something to eat before I answer that question for you." And NEVER feel like because you are in their house that they are in control!

Which is what he said was my fatal flaw, I trusted them, and assumed that they were looking out for Audrey, which clearly they were not.

And finally he agreed that I should lodge both a formal complaint against Dr. P at south shore but also notify the medical board of his neglegence and mishandling of the situation.

We will be doing all of that after the holiday.

I feel safe now, But obviously I'm still very upset, and I WILL not just let this go!

[AKF]

I am so glad you all came through this horrible situation as well as you did. I'm also thanful that ya'll have an attorney and will follow through on this. There is no excuse for the way they treated you and Audrey. If they really thought she was being abused, why wouldn't they go out of their way to make her feel comfortable and safe?? It is just complete and total incompetence at many levels!!

Good luck and keep us posted on the progress of the case. Remember that it can take a long time to get any resolution.

[mc4_a]

Sounds like very good advice. Hopefully this is all over for you. This type of shoddy treatment is exactly why people turn away from the medical community. All medical parties involved should be ashamed.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

It's true...it was all about them covering their a$$! And really nothing more! Well, I'm going to let them know that they forgot to cover their balls! :mad:

I'm SERIOUSLY considering calling my friend in the legal department at our health insurer and telling them that I'd like to review ALL charges before they are paid.

For starters my attny friend told me that the ambulance ride was all a roose!

And certainly Dr. P's exam should NOT be paid as he didn't examine her!

And I'd love to see what Children's tries to bill for during all those hours of interegation without any care! :mad:

He thinks that's just time taken away from my family, but I feel like it's the only thing that will REALLY catch their attention.

OMG! I just realized something...the President of the HMO used to work at the State House...Crikie I don't remember what his capacity was, OH but I bet he'd love this! Maybe I should just write my friend in the legal dept a letter and copy the president....hmmm I wonder if I personally know the director of billiing...I used to work there in my former life... I DO personally know the VP of Member Sercies though....oh man now I'm all fired up!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I just found this about the president's former position:


having served as a state official in the early and mid-1990s, prior to
becoming a market participant.
As a regulator, I served as Undersecretary of the Massachusetts Executive Office of Health and Human Services from 1991 to 1992, and then as Secretary of Health and Human Services from 1992 through 1994. In this role, I oversaw a number of state agencies, including the Department of Public Health


Ok, I gotta walk away now because I'm starting to get really nasty & revengeful thoughts.

[Tootsie]

Kristin, I've been following your account of Audrey's fall and the resulting nightmare experience. Please make sure that you keep a hard copy of your post, so that you can refer to it when you need to. You were so sleep deprived and stressed out that some of the details may fade easily along with the time line of events.

A calm and reasoned approach will do much to help change whatever protocols were in effect at the time of your visit to this ER. Certainly, the basic premise of care, the snotty, unprofessional remarks by the RN (are you SURE, she was an RN?) are all violations of patient's rights.

I think that the accrediting agencies in your state should be made aware of the awful standards of care prevailing at this institution. If you have a responsible, fact based newspaper in the area, they might be interested in your story.

Also, if you possibly can, please find out the name of the kindly orthopedic resident that finally casted Audrey's arm, and write him a brief note saying how much you appreciated his manner and concern, that he was a beacon of rationality in a nightmare of medical horror. Cheerio.

[tgrimes]

I know you probably feel horrible right now, but you will get through this fine. I am so worried about your daughter though... you didn't say what will happen with her fractures, and what was the dark spot on her bone? Did you find out any more about how long this will take to heal in the cast?

[milivica]

I've been reading all this just today. I am so so sorry you and Audrey and Coley and your dh went through all this, my God.

It just mind blowing, how good and loving parents are treated, yet parents already convicted of child abuse and so on keep getting their children back and seem so 'untouchable' by these hospitals and places that can and do treat good parents like total crap. It's like, when they see you love and fear for your child, they have a 'weapon' which is your love and fear. If you are ambivalent, they have no weapons...the more you love and want your child, the more they can play you. I understand you were not at a 4 star hotel, but since it's an EMERGENCY room, wouldn't staff have training in how to calm instead of agitate? I totally understand they need to do their job, make sure Audrey isn't being abused, etc etc... but Dale Carnegie wouldn't even be able to get through the ER without flipping out. From start to finish they handled everything, most especially Audrey a baby in pain, wrong.

Well I'm just sorry to hear all you all went through. I've had my share of horrific ER and hospital experiences, both as a child and adult. Including my own Dr. calling me a Whacko and Psycho while I held my hours old baby in my arms...I felt so unsafe there, I left AMA, like I just walked out in the gown with dh I was so upset. Good think YOU aren't on the spectrum yourself - although I believe you must have felt exactly like you were. Can you even imagine trying to mentally negotiate all that with asd?

Post again about how you all are doing. What was the dx with Audrey? How is she feeling now?
Mili

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I really need to stop thinking about this for the remainder of the holiday, which is why I felt it was so important to write it all down. I still need to go back and fill a bit more in, but I can do that after the holiday ya know. The most important thing that I need to do is fill in names & such, which I won't be able to do until we get copies of the records.

As for Audrey's prognosis & all. That was basically discussed only in the few points I mentioned, so that, much like the rest of our experience there is a bit of a mystery to me right now...

I called the Peds office on Thursday, after we were ALL able to get some sleep. I spoke to the practitioner and I asked her for several things:

1. To find out if there is a need for follow-up on that black spot. Whether it was a flaw in the x-ray or if it was something that we need to see someone about.

2. Her eczema. Which by the way has calmed down almost completely now that she's gotten some rest. But nonetheless, Audrey's next appointment is her 1year in January, so at that time we will do all the usual food allergy tests, as I have already been able to associate it with solid foods at home (I think wheat & fruit).

3. We are to follow-up in one week with an orthopedic specilist, but I am refusing to use either of those hospitals, so Dr. V needs to rustle up an orthopedic at MGH and with the holiday & all.... and 1 week will be Wednesday, so who knows! We were told that it will be a maximum of 6 weeks in the cast, depending on how she heals...but that in general babies heal REALLY fast.

In general we are all still pretty traumatized. I am having nightmares and can't sleep very well. DH is a nervous wreck. I think he feels guilty that he was unable to protect his family.

Coley...well, how do I put this...I think it had a profound impact on him...he is MUCH more dependant, wants to include me in everything, won't let me be in another room doing anything, like he needs to keep his eyes on me and won't go to sleep without someone with him. He's also doing a lot more 'caring' type pretend play...like this am he built a little nursery (of course he didn't miss a single detail) and is caring for one of Audrey's stuffed buddies as though it is a real baby.

As for Audrey, I'm actually getting worried and want to call the Dr, but I am terrified that with the weekend and the holiday that I will be directed to the hospital. She is STILL sleeping a lot! Her stamina is nil. Her spirit is fine, but she just does not stay awake for more than like 1.5 hours at best, whereas before this she would be awake between naps for up to 3 hours. Her appetite is not what is normal for her either. AND her cast seems to be slipping. DH is home tomorrow...

I've just called the on-call person and she will be getting a hold of Dr V or Dr K to call me back and the peds office is open tomorrow 9-2...

I'll let you know what happens...

As for alerting the media and the insurance company and local agencies & all. I DO feel like that is important, and even have a drive to do it, but I am trying to keep a steady head about it...I'll take M's advice (the attny) and stay focused on getting things like records and complaints & such done first.

I feel the next step is to prevent payment, being from the actuarial area in that same health plan, I absolutely feel an obligation to the plan and the rest of it's members to refuse payment for these things. There is NO WAY that any of us should be paying a so called healthcare institution for treatment like that! So I will take that up as a secondary thing.

As for the media, in much the same way that I felt it important to share M's advice with you, I also feel it would be good to share my experience (and his advice) with other parents in my area, particularly since they will be using these same facilities that function under the same CPS guidelines.

So I guess as a 3rd step notifying the newspaper and local agencies is important too...I guess at which point talking to that case worker from Children's would make sense as well...sorta all at the same time through carbon copies or something.

As we talked about before, my mom & dad were activist types, so I do feel a responsibility to do what I can to fix something here...which to be honest I'm not real clear if something is broken or if a single Dr is neglegent.

That will become clear once M is able to gather the proper infomation when he gets back to Boston after the holiday. I have had a chance to look at a few things, and I did have a quick discussion with Coley's godmother (the clerk magistrate from family court)...and there is a thing called mandatory reporter, but there needs to be a "reasonable cause." From that I can make a couple assumptions, but M has warned me about that...I can speculate that the x-ray tech had a question and felt a moral and professional obligation to raise it up...at which point we were directed back to the ER at South Shore for an exam and whatnot...which just basically leads me back to Dr. P who didn't talk to the examining Dr, didn't look at her history, didn't examine her, didn't talk to us much about it, etc etc etc. So if he then went and reported us, Children's had no choice but to comply with the law, however, I'm certain that they are also obligated to treat her...and given that they have a history with us, they should have been able to make a reliable judgement and work with us in a much more sensative way, versus treating us like sub-human scum.

Ok, I think that covers all your questions & such...I REALLY want to try not to think about this more for a couple days, so please don't take offense to a delay in a reply...

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO appreciate all your support and hugs and good wishes and nice comments and everything...you guys will just never know how much it has helped. I am an absolute wreck, a feel dissasembled or something, and having you remind me that I AM a loving caring mom means the world!

Now everyone go have an AWESOME holiday and give all those kids a BIG hug & kiss from me!!!!!

I'll be back with updates as I can, K...

LOVE YOU!!!!
KJ

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Ok, I just spoke with Dr. K.

We need to bring her in tomorrow. The practitioner is on, not Dr. V or Dr. K...ugh! I told her that we were instructed not to discuss this with anyone other than herself or Dr. V, but the only other option (until Wednesday) is the ER and that certainly isn't going to happen.

She gave me some instructions about needing to take her in tonight, but hopefully that won't be necessary! Like if her behavior changes or her fingers turn colors.

She thinks that maybe she's getting sick...course after not sleeping all that time and being exposed to lord only knows what in that petre dish, I guess that's a high likelihood :rolleyes: Hopefully that's all it is.

Pray for us! And I'll update you after our visit.

Thanks again!!!!!

[Keggy]

I would be cautious about asking the insurance company not to pay for any service. I did this once because the doctor did not perform the service and I was sued for the amount. If it was you paying the doctor it would be another story, but you are stopping a third party payer.. be careful.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Thanks Keggy.

Whatever I do will include M's participation, so I will make sure that whatever happens that we are protected from that. I think what I want to make sure is that they aren't receiving funds for inappropriate things. I think the insurance company themselves can determine that the ambulance was not necessary and even more than that NOT approved by the ped, so that one could be ok. But you make a good point about the other stuff...I will be careful!

[Isabelle]

in the meantime, wishing you a merry xmas and a happy new year

[Mother's Heart]

((((Kristen))))

about stopping insurance payments: I did this when my son was born. They'd put me on this huge monitoring thingy continuously monitored temp and other vitals and sat a nurse beside my bed to watch it...for a day and a half. Then they left it in my room for 3 or 4 days after I was removed from it. I begged them to move that big thing out of my room....it was crowding the room and bugging me. They said they would moveit when someone else needed it....basically my room was their best storage for it. Well....they then tried to charge my insurance for all the days it was in my room. I didn't allow my insurance to pay but I'm not sure if I contacted them first. I think I contacted the hospital and protested that and some other charges. They reviewed it and then removed those charges from our bill.

[milivica]

My daughter's bill had a charge for her circumcision, being the anal aspie I was, it floored me to see such inaccuracy. I debated and argued it to death. Finally I think I gave up, the insurance seemed determined to just pay it. Or maybe I was billed then had to fight it more. I don't even remember. I just remember thinking the next time the hospital bills for something fake, shut up even if it's not accurate (accuracy was a big thing with me, you know, before I was in the full swing of motherhood and could be that picky still, hee hee).

So, how are things today? How are you all, how's Audrey?

[Keggy]

I think you misunderstood my advice. It may seem logical to you to fight the ambulance charge etc... but they didn't do anything wrong... they certainly didn't just show up and decide to take your dd to the other hospital... so when you ask the insurance co to deny their payment they get screwed, not the people who screwed up.

The ambulance did take her, and someone ordered it. Why should they not get paid?

Instead of going after the money source, which may ultimately screw you badly, why don't you write letters or file a former complaint on the people who messed up and just let it go!

The money the doctor received for the services is pocket change, it won't matter to him either way. If they come after you for it though I am sure it will put a hurting on you.

I recently went through something where a professional really pulled a number on me (theft of intellectual property to start with) and it seemed to be the best thing to write the facts, file with the appropriate parties..... and let it go. Dwelling on negative things breeds more negativity. The universe will send you whatever emotion you are dwelling on, so unless you want to continue being treated unfairly, let it go!

In any case, it should not be for you to determine how someone is punished.... since you are not impartial.

Give yourself a little peace for 2008.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

You are right Keggy, but there NEEDS to be some accountability, somewhere!

My emotions have calmed down quite a bit, and I really don't want to go back there. I've been thinking about this A LOT! I can't seem to stop.

We were back in the ER on Christmas day because her cast fell off...and it's slipping again now. I guess it's pretty common with babies because they are pretty soft - don't have much muscle tone. The 2nd trip to the ER was really scary and I hate feeling like I'm afraid to bring my child to the ER now...that's wrong! but how could anyone blame me? They did question us again, but luckily this time the staff where a lot more 'reasonable'...

I have decided that I am going to lodge complaints on Dr. P, and on that overnight staff at Children's, and from there I will try to somehow bring about some change...because I just can't stop thinking about the fact that there are poorer less educated families out there that... OMG!... I just can't imagine how out of hand this could have gotten if it had happened to Coley when he was an infant, being FTT and all...I mean he looked neglected AND underfed! so what about those families that are not well fed, or those that would flip out at the Drs, or what about those that just go to the drs for their well-checks and don't see the peds so often like we do...ya know????

There IS something WAY wrong with this process and I'm going to try to bring it to someone's attention, hopefully the right person...Coley's god mother should be able to connect me with the right people, and she's also offered to help me write some letters too...before becoming a magestrate she worked at the state house, she was an assistant to a rep, and she's got TONS of connections.

I've looked a few things up and there seems to be this really ambiguous term "reasonable cause" that allows someone to start an investigation...Coley's GM is pretty certain that there is absolutely NO definition or guidelines to that term...that's the problem I think! Obviously what is reasonable to one person may not be to another! And past that, one thing that I feel is wrong, is that we were in a legal process and being threatened with legal action, yet we had absolutely no support, legal or otherwise...I'm not sure how anyone could expect that parents (particularly at 2am) are going to act very rational when their family is being threatened...and then to use THAT behavior against them...NO! That's not right either...there should be full disclosure AND some support, whether that be from the ped, from a lawyer, from a patient advocate...not sure...but there just should not be a situation where an american citizen is thrust into a legal situation blindly and left without representation!

So this is what has been floating around my head lately...

We are all battling a flippin cold right now...so I'll update on the enzymes & such when we are feeling a bit better...I just only popped the PC on to pay bills. We've got a few appointments scheduled next week, but hopefully things will be back to normal and I'll have some time to hang out & update you more...

Til then, take care!

And, oh...HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
KJ

[Keggy]

I am a mandated reporter myself, and from what I read of your account, they did what they were supposed to do. A small child showing up with 3 fractures in her arm should arouse suspicion. That dosn't mean you are guilty of anything.

What was wrong was how you were treated by the facility, which is something you could work to change.

My advice is to use honey to fix the situation rather than threats or damages to make them pay for what they did.

Charging anyone with child abuse is dreadful, they don't jump to do it, more than one person had to be concerned.

Keep in mind that if you do pursue going after the various people you felt wronged you, you may be alienating people who you may very well need in the future in caring for you and your children.

I know you are angry (hopefully not so much at me for telling you what I have) I am just telling you this to save you pain and heartache.

You could use this experience to make things better for others in the future. Think about this. Someone else who is charged with abuse, who may very well be guilty... but does the child deserve to be left untreated all night in an er? Absolutely no. You could work to help kids stuck in this dreadful situation.

[Keggy]

By the way, most states train all mandated reporters an teach them what to look for. The term "reasonable cause" is used because in order to protect kids you can't give clear defined terms of what is suspect and what is not.

[milivica]

If you feel you have a 'call' to do something about this, you go for it! Just be aware of everything Keg said, and honestly even if she didn't I fear you wearing yourself out cause you are ONE, not a bunch, of parents with the same experiences. At least that's where I've run into nothing but walls, when I've felt compelled to try and make a positive change, so others wouldn't go through what my kids and I did. But being only ONE, it just didn't work (not yet, I'm not done trying still).

But if you got a lawyer that'll do it, and you got the sanity to go through it, you go girl!!!

Love and MiliChristmas!!!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

But you shouldn't be able to report someone with no information.

The radiologist had NOTHING except the x-ray. We had no other history with that hospital. Audrey is the only one of the 4 of us who has EVER been seen there.

AND they had no information regarding the actual event. For all they knew she could have fallen at the peds office. For all they knew she COULD have a condition that makes her bones easy to break. For all they knew there COULD have been more than one event. They knew NOTHING! That's the problem!

Oh, and when she went for her new cast, they x-rayed again...there is no 3rd break...there is only 2. The ortho showed me & DH the x-rays, and we asked about the 3rd one...it's not there, and believe me we weren't easily convinced of this...there is no evidence of any injury above her elbow.

And then Dr. P didn't do his job, there is no doubt about that...never examined her, never discussed anything with us, nothing...and when I look at the documentation from the transfer it states "suspected syndrome X" in several places. He took a question, and I mean a question that was proposed by a radiologist and instead of attempting to answer it by discussing things with us and the ped, he blew it up even bigger. That is NOT helpful to anyone. Rather than treating her and allowing Drs to spend their time on others, he wasted our time and theirs. Plus traumatized us in the process. That is WRONG! I'm sure that all the Drs at Children's assumed that Dr. P did his job and had a reason to 'suspect'

Here are some obvious facts that he should have noted:

Audrey is healthy.
Audrey is happy.
Audrey has a warm & loving relationship with her parents.
Audrey is not developmentally or emotionally delayed.
Audrey has no other marks or suspicious evidence of injury.

Had he examined her:

He wouldn't have been able to find any other tender spots or marks beneath her clothes

Then had he spoken to the ped he would have learned:

Audrey's health has been remarkable with no colds or any other issues
Audrey is up to date on her vaccinations
Audrey is in to the ped often because we spread her vaccinations out to protect her from reactions her brother suffered.
The ped has NEVER noted any concerning things.
She was even in just 5 days earlier for a well visit and nothing out of the ordinary was noted, particularly not touch sensativity to any area.
Her growth has been amazing, she is well above 90% in all areas, dispite her prematurity. Potentially due in part to extrodanary efforts in her first month of life (her weight stalled, she was jaundice in the first 3 weeks of life but we were able to turn that around and avoid readmittance)

Regarding us:

They would have simply given a little history of the lengths we go to with Coley....you know it, so I don't need to list it...

All this paints a picture of good parents, thorough and frequent ped involvement, and no other injury to either child...conclusion: 1 single accident...hmmmm, maybe the radiologist is wrong...could that be? Well, it's not a pediatric expert, so there is likely a better chance of that than us being abusers...obvious next move: get the experts opinion...but that's not what he did, he sent us over as though they had already determined that we were abusers.

Now, the thing that scares the crap out of me (for others) is how M tells me that it very well could have gotten more out of hand, they could have actually taken Audrey, easily...that freaks me out...all because someone asked a question...

His incompetency will be reported and so too will the ER staffs mistreatment. DH thinks we should suggest some sort of sensativity training for the staff...I doubt that will happen, but it would be nice to see.

Beyond those formal compaints, I DO think there is a great deal of room for improvemnet to this process. I still don't know what that process is, I tried to look it up, but can only see things that pertain to those that have been accused and nothing about how the process is defined. I imagine that there is some sort of protocol, I hope. And that is where I'd like to effect some change. But will need some help from insiders I guess to get that information...what I DID find is a report that 72% of those accused are determined to be false accusations by discruntled people. At a bare minimum that is a HUGE waste of taxpayer money.

And although I AM sensative to the real cases, I DO NOT agree that putting those 72% through experiences like mine is in any way acceptable to get to the other 28%. There absolutely has to be a better way. In my mind I can think of a check list, and somehow the need to meet a certain number of things or something to warrent an investigation....

And I'm sorry Keggy I gotta disagree, having an ambiguous term like "reasonable cause" does every one a diservice.

And I think I put in here somewhere that I do respect and appreciate the fact that someone is looking out for these kids...and I completley admire the radiologist for raising the question...the problem I see is that the quesion could have and should have been ruled out. And it's horrifying to me that it wasn't, and wouldn't be in so many other cases too. And to take a perfectly safe child away from their parents is damaging too...can you even begin to compare that to an abused childs damage, I don't think so (I mean they are 2 different things you can't even say one is worse than the other...they are both horrible), and I don't even want to go down the road that discusses what type of environment they are put into...OH NO...this process needs to be tightened up...

I'd love to see something like the insurance companies refuse payment for services that don't follow a defined protocol...

I'd settle for a better definition of "reasonable cause"...and a better implemented process at Children's, which includes full disclosure and some sort of representation.

I've thought too about what it would take to actually 'fix' things...I doubt very much I have the resources to fix it...but would just like to put the info in front of the right person. That means going WAY up...I think I can get there with some help...but I'm also wondering if a simple feedback form from people ruled out might just help to get some ideas flowing back or something... I supose it wouldn't be hard either to find a good number of those 72% too...I mean if there are that many, it shouldn't be hard to get an army of angry people together that will scream loud enough for someoen to listen.

One thing at a time though. Right now it's all fantasy until I get more information....

Well see...

[Tootsie]

Kristen, I've been following your posts about your recent experience with Audrey and am impressed by your ability to express your frustration, and analyze what happened with an accurate, appraisal.

My suggestion would be to keep hard copies of what you have posted here, so that you can reread them at your leisure, when you need to condense them into a more succinct form. I would suggest that you contact the Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation and question the protocols in place at the hospital where so many things were wrong.

I would also suggest that you contact the local county Medical Association and describe the events, that demonstrate that Audrey was never given a full physical examination, by a professional, BEFORE, the comments and observations of the radiologist were acted upon. (That is my own personal mantra these days...that persons with limited training are given too much authority and power to affect patient outcomes.)

At some point, with the time and effort needed to manage Coley, and the needs of a toddler of Audrey's age, one more demand on your time and energy at this point, is not what you need. However, it is only when people like you, make enough noise, and make these problems obvious to those who do have the power to force changes, will those changes occur. Courage! Cheerio.

[Tootsie]

I would be willing to bet that the 72% of people reported to Child Protective Services for abuse, and are later found to be invalid, are all financially poor, have few resources, and are too burdened by the other challenges in their life to do anything about the situation forced upon them. Cheerio...again.

[tgrimes]

I think still, it's important for a hospital to treat EVERY child who presents with multiple fractures combined with an undocumnted accident as a possible child abuse case. That is just policy... it would be incompetent for any facility NOT to do at least some questioning and further x-rays.
Yes, it was a pain in the but for you, but I think one of the reasons they called it the way they did was the delay in seeking treatment... that is a big factor, that is one of the ways they 'decide'.
They probably figured most babies would be crying big-time the day it happened... but I have one too that doesn't seem to feel pain. I think if he ever broke a bone I might never know about it!
Anyway, hope she is healing quickly... take care and stay strong.

[peglem]

I agree, multiple fractures should be investigated, but, my questions:

1) Why were you sent to that hospital for xrays in the first place, instead of the childrens hospital? Surely the children's Hospital would at least be assumed to be better at getting and interpretting infant xrays than a general ER.

2) When you returned "immediately" to the first hospital- why were you even sent to the children's hospital? Surely they had the xray equipment to investigate further and wouldn't it be simpler to have either sent the xrays over for a 2nd opinion or sent you to children's in the first place?

3) If they had told you upfront that they needed to investigate her injury for abuse-you would have perhaps been more cooperative about the xrays-thinking they would clear things up. Okay, that's not really a question- but pointing out that it seems children's assumed when you arrived that you knew already about the investigation and so your being hesitant to get the xrays was misinterpretted by them as suspicious.

So, it seems the problem is not so much a question of whether the injury should have been investigated so much as HOW it was investigated.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Yup, I agree! There was a MAJOR breakdown somewhere! And perhaps multiple places.

The issue, as they described it, wasn't the 2 or 3 fractures, but rather that one appeared, according to the South Shore radiologist as potentially being from a seperate event.

But here's my observation...what they did, how they reacted, the 'investigation' and all...would only show more fractures. So what happens to the child that IS abused, but hasn't suffered previous breaks??? The investigation is useless.

It seems they confused and equated too many things. The one question that they should have been trying to answer is whether or not Audrey has had a history of abuse. I would think that the best person to assess that would be a child psychologist, NOT a radiologist, even a pediatric expert. The second question that they tried to answer, and one I think the hospital has NO business attempting, is whether Audrey has been abused by me or DH...how in the world are doctors qualified to answer that question? And how in the world do x-rays even come close to answering that question? They don't!

There are SO many scenarios that could be happening, including the possibility that she is abused and this was her first/only break...where that 'process' reveals NO information. Everyone keeps saying that it's important to 'look' for the sake of the others...but guys, this so called 'investigation' is NOT effective! It would be so much easier for me to deal with this if it seemed like the process/investigation worked...from where I stand it looks like it was a license for the drs to go on a power ride...and if it weren't for the ped getting involved in the morning, I have to wonder if they would have begun doing MRI's and things to look at soft tissue damage. It was like a rampage to 'find' something. NO ONE looked at the obvious....like her spirit and demenor.

And now what happens when she is 3 or 4 and falls off her bike or something???

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything effective with this process with the ONE exception that a child shows up with an injury and upon investigation real evidence of previous untreated injuries are found...but it's wrong to assume that every break that comes through the door is representative of this scenario...

As for the delay in treatment...had Dr. P even asked about that I might agree...but he didn't. He only asked if we knew why she needed immediate treatment...and then told us that she had the green tree fracture (that apparently is common in babies, and IS a break in 2+ places...because the bone bends and gives versus a clean break).

Also, all the doctors have commented on the fact that the type of fracture is not all that painful...it's why the touch exam only revealed the buckle fracture at her wrist and not the second one. This was explained to us at Children's as the reason behind the full series, AND also why she didn't complain about her cast coming off and why she had no problems using her arm and fingers once off....

Peg's Children's is downtown, and a pain in the but to deal with unless necessary. The ped only wanted the x-ray, so sent us to the closest hospital, as she put it "to use their machine"...after it was read, that's where we should have been sent to children's right away I think...but that seems to be a mistake made by us/ped...I'm not really sure if it was an option though...thing is we were never told WHY we were going back there and not Children's, we assumed the ped had reason...the peds office on the other hand was closing for the day, and (I don't know for sure) but think the Rn just took the message and made the call to us, and really didn't know what she was sending us into...that's all something I'll take up with the ped.

Grimey, What do you mean by undocumented accident??? Should I be dialing 911 everytime one of my kids bumps or bruises something? I don't get what you mean? It was documented at the peds??????

Tootsie, thatnks for those suggestions! I will definatley look into that. And the reason I typed this all here, was exactly the reason you suggest...to begin the documentation. It's full of emotion and I know that needs to be filtered out. I also need to get my hands on names and such too.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

This may be totally inappropriate to say, but to add a little humor here...

Today as I was checking for blood after Coley smashed into my face because he decided it was time to play on jungle-gym-mommy, it occured to me that if there is any abuse occuring in this house it is me that has been abused by him! But I guess we are on our own with that...it's ok that we the parents of kids on the spectrum, get run through the mill daily with little interventions!

[Keggy]

The thing is was that they were launching an investigation because there was something suspicious. If they felt there was more, they would have continued on. They did not charge you or arrest you. They have the responsibility to investigate.

Think of it this way... how many of us here have had our child fall off a changing table? How many of us have had a child (under 2) break a bone I bet not many. It is not a common occurance. How many of us would have had the child in the hospital within the hour (parents of 1 child will probably all raise their hands).

You have to consider that they may consider what you said to be absolutely true. That AUdrey fell off the table and broke a bone (or two) the previous day. SOme people may feel that the fact she was able to fall off the table may be cause for concern. Others may feel that she should have been brought in immediately, and some may think someone was too rough with her. Maybe the staff wanted to see if you or your husband looked sober or how you handle anger and frustration. THe point is... they did not arrest you. They did a simple, short investigation and that was all.

When a child is older, and has an accident like you mention, the doctors and staff will have the additional evidence of the child speaking (possibly) and get a feeling about what really happened. When you are dealing with a toddler you have little to go with outside of that xray.

Hospital staff is well aware that children have accidents. You don't need to worry about every little bump and bruise.

[Tootsie]

As I read over the various opinions expressed here, I am reminded of visits to the pediatrician with my own children so many years ago. At that age, of 12 to 18 months, when they are walking, climbing, stumbling, bumping, and pulling things over on themselves, my faithful pediatrician would always ask in a kindly, but persistent way, "How did xyz hurt his.... leg, arm, ribs, etc."

One time, my older son, had jumped from his standard twin bed, onto his brothers bed, which was basically a trundle type drawer. He landed on the edge, screamed in horrible pain, but recovered quickly. On his ribs, developed a perfect linear bruise that looked as if he had been hit with a stick.

Another time, child #4, had been standing on a kitchen chair with the back toward the stove, for safety, watching me cook. He was about 3-4 at the time. Before I could stop him, he put his hand, flat on the electric burning, saying, "Is this hot?" It wasn't red hot, but yes, that burner was hot enough to leave those concentric circles on his palm. I got him under the cold water faucet, had the other kids bring me ice, and sat down with his hand in ice water. It began to blister, and I called our pediatrician. He wasn't on call that evening, and I began to think, what the one on call would ask. It was a perfect picture of child abuse, common abusive discipline, etc. I decided to wait until morning, and set him up in a large, overstuffed chair with very wide arms. With pillows, a blanket, and a flat bowl, he could put his hand in the icy water, relax and fall asleep.We all went to bed and slept well. In the morning, all the redness was gone except for a few streaks and a small area that was still blistered. He was happy, wasn't complaining and no further care was needed.

Any time that child abuse is considered, it is imperative that the doctor who knows the family and the child be consulted for his/her input into the situation. Every mother has a similar story, I'm sure...it is simply the nature of children to be curious, inquisitive, and risk taking. They do not come with instruction manuals! Pediatricians know this. Cheerio.

[tgrimes]

Kristen - i meant undocumented accident as in if the fractures of an infant were a result of a car accident or something that happened in public where it was seen by others... nothing to do with you, just trying to get you to see their side as they have to evaluate things, so it might bring you some resolution, but I see what i said only caused you to be more defensive... I am sorry.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I didn't mean to be defensive, I just didn't understand...what I'm trying to get across here, that I think Keggy and you are missing is that,

We went into South Shore for an x-ray. Our Dr gave us a slip, we walked in, went to radiology. Took the x-ray, and left. That was the instructions, and apparently a common practice. We talked to no one about anything. They didn't know when or how it occured. It was like simply going for a a blood test.

Upon returning, at their request (again I need more information on what happened at the peds when they got that call) we were basically told only that she had 2 breaks and that a more qualified ortho should manage it. She was not examined, we were not questioned. The ped was not consulted. We were transfered.

tangent: You guys should also be aware that our ped is quite reputable, particularly in our area. Many of the hospital staff that we have encountered have known him, and we often get glowing comments when we supply the name of our kids ped. We specifically searched out the best after dealing with what was supposed to be the best and learning otherwise.

And once we got to Children's where they should have been able to make a judgement about us based on previous history with Coley, not to mention OBVIOUS factors about Audrey, the 'investigation' was launched.

Another tangent: There are 2 reports in Coley's file, one from a GI and one from a metabolic Dr that plainly states that we are over-protective and over-reactive, and that it is their belief that the things Coley deals with are simply related to his prematurity and that he will outgrow it. Course that is not up for discussion...this is the reason we are seen at MGH now..but there are lots of other reports like from the neuro and development clinic and communication clinic & all that shows that there is a clear link betwen his eating and his state of mind...the point is that even in the face of Drs pushing us away, we didn't go away...and that their documentation clearly shows that we are not neglectful.

As for the 'investigation' I will still maintain showed NOTHING! And the fact that it was some sort of formal 'legal' 'process' for which we were not made aware of, and further had no support during is what is troubling me.

Especially since the peds input (either about us or the injury or Audrey's history) was NEVER obtained.

The fact that I had no control over the amount of radiation that my daughter was exposed to is troubling to me! The fact that had they x-rayed JUST her arm and had it reviewed by their experts FIRST, they would have come to the same conclusion that they did after the full skeletal series: one event and consistent with a fall.

DH suggested this to them in the same conversation that we were told we'd be arrested.

Thing is, instead of seeing concerned parents, all they saw was abusers, and they were on a witch hunt. When I expressed concern about the radiation, and DH offered the arm only review, they just saw that as us worried about them finding something...when there was NO reason for them to see us in that light to begin with...had there been 1000 witnesses, those suggestions/questions would have been seen in the absolute polar opposite light. THAT'S a problem! Sounds like guilty until proven innocent to me!

They were pushing for more tests too...I still don't know what stopped them: the morning shift, the ped, my vent, or DH & Coley showing up....maybe some of each. But I'm convinced they would have kept going if they could have. They seemed to have it in their head that there was something there to find and they were going to find it.

And still...that "investigation" showed nothing! And I don't mean the results...I mean a kid that is abused doesn't necessarily have broken bones....AND a kid that comes in with a broken bone does not necessaily have more (even in the case of abuse).

Perhaps that 'investigation' showed that they could push me past the brink (in a public place and under close scruntiny) and I wouldn't take it out on my child...but what does that show either?

And how is it their job to evaluate me?

And all this happened because NO ONE got tthe facts in the first place!

[Keggy]

I got all that. I am looking at this from a less emotional stance then you. Nothing that you said changes my mind about anything that I have said. The doctor having a great rep has no bearing on this. Investigations often bear no fruit.
Kristin of course you can do whatever you want. But I think you are setting yourself up for problems.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Ok, I here you Keggy.

But what IS it about this so called investigation that you feel was or could be helpful.

This is what I don't understand. Clearly I am upset about what occured, and I AM feeling like I need to respond...holding that aside for a moment though...

AND

Considering the potential for filtering out an abuse case, I just CANNOT see how that is possible with the way anyone 'performed' this 'investigation.'

Now, considering for one second that the process (aka the investigation) is properly defined, then I can only assume that it was not follwoed correctly. The only other option is that it is illdefined.

In either case I feel it's irresponsible for me to NOT respond.

Although, having just gone through all this, I do feel a measurable amount of fear to even talk to any of these 'agencies' and/or facilities.

But in response to that, I just can't see how anything will ever change (and actaully be helpful and or not wasteful) for those that actually need it to.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Also, how does a Dr or whomever decide that a questionable injury is not abuse and does not warrent an investigation?

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

And one other thing that bugs me.

I can completely understand that when a Dr is confronted with an injury and the potential of abuse that they can determine that exposure to that amount of radiation is justifiable in determining if there are other injuries or if there is more evidence of further abuse.

BUT

When confronted with the same injury and compelling evidence that there is no abuse, is that same amount of radiation justifiable?

So where was the concern for that, from these Drs that were supposidly acting in her best interest?

Kids fall and bump and whatnot all the time. I'd be willing to bet that there are LOTS of kids running around with fractures and things that aren't treated that are NOT the result of abuse or neglect. For god sake, once Audrey woke from her nap, after I called the ped, she was using her hand without a problem and NOT complaining at all. If I had waited one more nap, none of this would have happened. And I don't want that to come across wrong...what I mean is that her actions along with the comments from the orthos, regarding the lack of pain with this type of fracture, leads me to believe that there are likely MANY out there that have shaken this off...and it doesn't mean at all that the parents are abusive or neglectful. Kids hurt themselves all the time, it's their nature as they learn their limits, and if the kid isn't complaining... I suppose then one could look like a hypocondriac...

[Keggy]

I can see you are still feeling very emotional about this (completely understand that).
Here are my feelings...
The hospital did not treat you well. This is true.
The investigation, which was a verys short limited evaluation was appropriate. This is due to your very young child coming in, having a broken bone, possibly more. Nothing else was said ... but that is enough to send up a red flag.
You told them (I believe) she fell off the table when you weren't looking (could imply a bit of neglect)

Typically investigations can be very lengthy. They could come to your home, interview your neighbors, employers, have case workers visit your house. It could go on a very long time. This did not happen.

>>>>>
As for the xrays, even if the doctor no longer felt that the child was abused, but still wanted to do additional xrays (subjecting your child to furthur radiation) he probably did so that based on you child appeared to have a break or two. The logic behind that would be to rule out any conditions that may make her bones more brittle.
If he did not pursue these xrays it may be because he felt that your explaination for the break fit the break she has.

[milivica]

I think they way the staff handled you and your dh, sucked. But that wouldn't have gotten to me as much, had they made their primary actions and concerns Audrey. That's what really bothered me over this. People are rude, these days you can be accused of being an abuser even though you weren't, etc... It's not right or fair, but that's how it is. But the length of time she waited without treatment (without eating!) was bad enough, but the amounts of needless radiation was inexcusable to me. I'm not a nurse or doctor, and I'm betting if a nurse or doctor had a child that was treated (or left untreated as long as Audrey) in exactly the same way as Audrey they wouldn't be able to make sense of it either.

So, that's just how I felt most of the time reading it. I think you could have handled any stress and worry and rudeness you got, even the ghestapo style accommodations while you waited for her to get treatment IF the entire time there was reasonable progress in treating Audrey. I realize she won't go ahead of a code Blue, fine. But that was ridiculous. What was done to her was not reasonable, needless, abusive and even inhumane by the neglect/her waiting so long. Again, I don't work in that field, but I do still recall dying of food poisoning, being in an ER for ??? hours, finally everyone was yelling and running and I was plunged into a tub of ice, apparently my fever was 105 for ??? no one knows. I recall puke and runs all over me from head to toe, and my lips being 'too hot' and hallucinating and trying to tell my ma what I was seeing (a fat guy and a skinny woman next to a skinny guy and a fat woman, both women in floral dresses).

Another time I was 'lost' in the hospital for the whole night...some idiot put me in my wheelchair behind a door, once opened no one could see me. Yes, I know an nt kid might say "here I am", but when people call your name and you can TALK but not COMMUNICATE you don't. Hard to explain, I knew where I was, and it never dawned on me that I had to say what I already knew. I suppose imagining the perspectives of others wasn't my forte.

Back to your experience, the sloppy and even MEAN way you were treated, I just give up expecting folks with 'people' jobs to have people skills. If that were investigated, my guess is they did nothing wrong (on paper anyhow). But the more I think about it, the more it pisses me off knowing that there's no way she should have waited that long for treatment or been exposed to all that radiation. If you'd have taken your pet monkey to the Animal ER with the same symptoms it would have gotten quicker kinder treatment and less radiation too.

[Tootsie]

Kristen, I had 2 more thoughts to share with you. IF, you are ever able to get the name of the intern/resident that came in to see Audrey, please comment, in your letters of complaint, that he was one person who seemed to treat you like Audrey's mom, and show concern for her arm. And, that you appreciated his professional demeanor.

The other thing, is your concern over the radiation. I think it is fine to say that you expressed your concern. However, no one seemed to reassure you, to your satisfaction, that it was not anything to be concerned about. This was not whole body radiation, like an abdominal or chest film. They certainly could not be sure, that the suspected fracture, did not involved the "growth plate," or area of the bone that produces growth. THAT, can be a more serious matter needing continuing follow up during her growing years. I'm not sure if anyone bothered to tell you this. Awful. Cheerio.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

ok. I can see that we have 2 camps of thought here. And I'm actually pretty surprised about that. I honestly didn't want this to become a debate or anything, so I kinda want to end the conversation before it gets too far out of control. But before that I need to respond...one because I'm that way where I can't seem to sleep when I have lingering thoughts about a subject (obviusly some sort of psychosis) and also because I already have horrible guilt about Coley, and then this relatively minor (in the grand scheme of things) thing happens and I am having an incredibly hard time preventing myself from beating myself up about it, so here goes...

Before I explain the set-up in detail I just want to say, before you all think it, I know that I am over-protective and almost irrational about our safety and the measures for which we go to avoid 'issues' in this house. I have always been a planner and obsessive about controlling everything, this is my nature (or whatever we want to call it), but something happened to me when Coley was in the NICU, and after. Of course we had to be extra careful with him being small and fragile, but even with everything we did we were somehow unable to keep him from getting to where we are today and all that transpired to get us here...it was incredibly traumatizing to me & DH (and of course Coley) and we are still trying to get over that. But beyond that we have 2 schools of thought with where he is today, and frankly only one seems to be able to produce progress so I tend to believe that one...that is that his issues are a result of a genetic condition for which we have not been able to pinpoint yet (versus it all being a result of his prematurity). SO, if they are right, then Audrey has the same chances of have the same issues (until we find out otherwise). So somehow in my mind I need to be even MORE cautious with her, and at a bare minimum treat her the same as we need to in order to keep Coley as stable as we have been able to do today...diet, vacines, exposure to things, etc. It has been an on-going counseling session between me/DH & Dr. V & Dr K about this...generally they tell us when I'm going over the top and we sorta negotiate to where we all feel comfortable, because I REFUSE to see my daughter go through what Coley has and no one can assure me that she doesn't have the same 'condition' and I REFUSE to find out the hard way....

ok, so there's my 'crazy' confession....and having said that, you can see how a little comment like 'a little neglectful' could send me over the edge, although at the same time I know what you mean and didn't mean anything hurtful, it still kept me up all night...so here is the situation just so I can get past it:

We have a changing table that is one of those bureau types, it's not a little cart thing. But more than that it is a bottom heavy, gravity centered one that will NOT topple should a child decide to climb the drawers. I chose this one because as a child a friend/neighbor died by climbing up her dresser while playing hide & seek with her brother (obviously leaving a lasting impression on my little mind). I even tested the thing myself, my 120# would not make the thing budge even a little. Then on it is one of those large, extra firm, with the larger 4" side bumpers. Right next to the bureau/changing table (on my left) is the diaper champ (http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Trend-Diaper-Champ/dp/B000CCEWBY/ref=pd_sbs_ba?ie=UTF8&qid=1199206186&sr=8-3).

As I said before, Audrey is not able to roll from back to belly yet, however she is able to swing her legs over and get onto her side.

Now, when the accident happened, I was standing directly in front of her (at her belly basically). Her head was at my left and her feet at my right. I had just taken off her messy diaper & cleaned her up, but because she is SO huge there is no area left on the table that I could put the mess without her getting crap on her if she grabbed it or kicked it, so I leaned over her to drop the diaper into the pale. My upper body was over her head. I am still completely amazed that she was able to get out of there without me feeling it...I'm only 5'2" so I just don't get that...

Ok, so it takes < 5 seconds to lean over her, drop the diaper and pull the lever (so it drops into the bucket) and then lean back up. It is quite possible that this particular time the bucket was a little full or that the large diaper got a bit stuck - it happens sometimes...it just means a little more time maybe 1-2 seconds to get the sucker to go through the shoot.

When I leaned up I caught Audrey's landing...head to the right and face down. This means she flipped head to toe and back to belly and went from her lying on her back to that position on the floor in 6 seconds maximum.

Running this through my mind a half a million times since it happened the only way she could have achieved this is by flipping her legs over the edge, so that they would have gone over next to me where I couldn't feel it (to my right), where that so-called 4" safety guard gave her a lift and the momentum so that she could achieve some sort of double axle (being sarcastic) where she picked up velocity as she twisted from back to stomach...and didn't quite make the full twist by the time her arm met the floor and took the full impact of her 25 pounds....

As much as I torture myself over this I have to keep telling myself that accidents happen, that's why they are called accidents...as much as this has been a constant lesson for me over my entire life, I still have the need to avoid them and control EVERYTHING. The ONLY thing I do differently now, is keep one hand on her while I pull the lever...if there is any area for 'neglect', that's it.

And this was all explained to the Drs...well without all the nerosis...I did explain her skill level, where I was, what I was doing the amount of time and how she landed...

The problem that I am having with this whole thing is that this so-called 'investigation' did not include anything more than those f'n x-rays. In my mind that is NOT an investigation. Everything else that transpired with the incompetency at South Shore and the terrible treatment at Children's is secondary...well not secondary, but outside that fact. I GET the whole err on the side of caution thing...I LIVE that...

x-raying a child and subjecting her to whatever to irritate her & her mother (assuming that was part of the evaluation) in my mind is a VERY poor approach to determine whether there is abuse.

There is STILL a possiblity that Audrey does have some sort of condition. They did use that possibility as a roose to keep us calm or whatever and do what they were doing all night long. They kept saying that...but they NEVER looked for that. It wasn't until I pressed for ped input for that, that they had to come clean about it being a BIG lie! And thing is there is NO other injury so there IS no other evidence that would show whether or not she has brittle bones. X-rays don't show this, and had they actually believed me about no prior injury they would have known that the x-rays would not show anything. And had they REALLY been concerned about this possibility then they would have gone directly to the proper testing for this type of condition, ie. blood work, which was never done...but will be discussed tomorrow with the specialist as we've been told by the ortho residents at MGH. And furthermore, if they REALLY were concerned about brittle bones, the LAST thing they would want is for their own staff to cause more breaks...which certainly would have occured with the way she was man-handled by the radiologist. And I suspect this would have been necessary with any naked wriggly infant...lying on a cold hard surface being held still for the slide. Obviously what added to this for us was the fact that she WAS injured and they would NOT compensate their actions to prevent hurting her. Now in my mind, THAT'S ABUSE!

The ONLY thing they looked for was additional breaks, that's it. As if that would answer some question for them, which clearly, in a vacuum it does not! This is my point. The 'investigation' was absolutley useless. I am not saying that there wasn't cause for question, certainly there was. I am not saying that there shouldn't be times when investigations are necessary, certainly there are.

What I am saying is that in this case, and in all cases, it would seem that talking to the examining Dr, and certainly looking at her specific history would be a key piece of information in any "investigation." And in our specific case, it should have ended the investigation so that she could have been treated, fed, and put to bed, AND avoided the radiation. Not to mention avoiding the time and expense... And oh, a referral to an ortho so that proper diagnostic testing could be done to determine the potential for a brittle bone condition.

And as far as I'm concerned if they had talked to my neighbors it would have been a heck of a lot more informative to their 'investigation' than those stupid x-rays.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Now, I'm a bit MORE defensive about those x-rays today than I was then because Audrey has a horrible rash on her chin/neck/chest. It's not her eczema it looks more like a burn. The ped noticed it a week ago, IS concerned, but suggested that it may be chapped from her teething but wants to keep an eye on it. It is not going away, and it looks a LOT like this:

http://www.fccc.edu/docs/publications/PRN/PRN-news-spring2002-pg4.pdf

Since there is REALLY nothing that can be done except ointments until new skin comes, there is really not much else I can do (assuming a radiation burn)...but should more x-rays be suggested I will raise it.

I am absoultely certain that a Dr would NOT expose a child to needless x-rays, and had they actually listened to me, or better yet to their own records or by their own words my 'best' ped...then they would have concluded that in this case the 26 x-rays for the skeletal series was NOT necessary.

AND I am absolutely PO'd at the fact that with the little treatment that she did recieve during the 16 hours at Children's that NO ONE talked to me about her prognosis or anything else regarding her break, as if they assumed I didn't care or something...even when I asked repeadily!

Rest assured though, we did have a lengthy discussion with the orthos at MGH...neither break is near her growth plate and they expect that all will be fine in her healing process...in fact her ability to use it now, and even the day after tells them good things about her ability to heal, which also says something about her chances of having one of these brittle bone conditions, so that is comforting to me, but tomorrow I suspect they will be drawing blood just to make sure. I will ask them to also check for signs of radiation poisoning at that time too.

Yes Mili!!!! I absolutley plan to talk to the case worker that asked me to contact her. I will try to be as emotion-less as possible to be as productive as possible...I hope that she is sincere because I agree that there is an ENORMOUS amount of room for progress!

And absolutely Tootsie...I already told that case worker before we left that morning that the ortho resident was the only one that I felt handle the situation well, or treated me or my daughter with any amount of respect. She blurted out his name, but of course given my mind set it flew right over my head. She knew who it was, and that's all that was important to me. Also Walter was tremendous, and deserves recognition for that as well. And the young girl that came up from the ER to help with the x-rays too. She was very gentle with Audrey even in the face of the rough and clearly annoyed radiologist.

I will contact M probably Thursday to begin the documentation process at the hospitals. After which I will likely call the case worker first. I haven't decided how I want to handle the rest yet. At the moment I'm contemplating a letter copied to some agency/facility heads. Thing is I'm not real sure that that will get much response...and I can't help thinking about how someone that is not so nerotic could get caught up in this over a simple accident...and could potentially have a worse outcome. Someone that just brings their kid in to the ped on a normal schedule, such that a ped would not be able to reassure a 3rd party that there is absolutely no history of other injury, and someone that leaves their child to play while they pee or something...I mean neither of which is unreasonable...but obviously could leave a LOT of space for worse to occur. M tells me that we did well, even though I feel we didn't, that we walked out of there WITH Audrey and that in his experience that tells him that we DID do well. That scares the CRAP out of me.

Mostly because I think about how wreckless Coley is, which as you all know is a non-negotiable thing with these kids. That's what he has his mind set on and there is REALLY nothing I can do except insist he wears a helmet or something. So far we've been lucky and he hasn't injured himself...what happens when he gets older and becomes more interested in more dangerous things...he's already asking to play hockey...and what about Audrey, what if she's NOT so lucky as Coley the first time she wants to ride her bike without training wheels...does that mean we go through this again???? And what will they determine if/when they see this records of this stupid investigation...


Basically, I NEED to know how to avoid this in the future!

[milivica]

I didn't know what you meant by 2 camps of thought on your other post, and that surprising you, but if that was cause of something I said than please blow off what ever it was...you know my 'camp' is several tents shy of a proper site, and the tents I do have several poles shy of a proper structure :D

I have no idea how I missed the fact Audrey got TWENTY SIX xrays. I just read that above. I tried to see your link, but my puter went bonkers, froze, etc... and it's probably my puter, not the link.

I can imagine how you felt about her rolling off the table during you changing her, I assumed you felt so horrible about it I didn't even want to ask. So I kind of assumed what you said in your 'confession', that it was just too painful for you to even bring up. It's one of those situations where you can reason with your mind forever about it really truly being an accident, but that doesn't help as much as time will, and her getting all better of course.

That incident of food poisoning I posted about before, it was my ma that poisoned me, TOTALLY accidental, I think she still carries guilt. All she did was open a can of fruit, I told her it tasted bad, she assumed I was lying cause I said I wanted a different fruit than she opened, and told me to eat it cause I asked for it. Wasn't her fault the can was tainted, I never blamed her, Audrey will never blame you either. She'll get better and move on.

What a nightmare from start to finish. If you're going to pursue all this, than what else would I say but you go woman! What if you pursue this, and positive changes happen for others in the future. Including your own kids. I think you handled everything excellent especially given the pressure and circumstances, honest I don't know how you handled it as well as you did.

[peglem]

Kristen, my only fear with you doing battle with these people is that they are probably a lot better at CYA then the average honest person (you). Please be very careful. I'm glad you have a lawyer helping you.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Don't worry guys, I'm pissed, and I'm completely 'loose' with you...but I DO know how to be professional and constructive...I just have to remember how, LOL!

I do plan to do this is a business like fashion. Mostly one step at a time and carefully. One of my bosses taught me a VERY valuable lesson. That is, how to tell someone else they are incompetent without them knowing it! Mostly smile alot and complement what can be complemented, while pointing out areas for improvement...this will come in handy. I gotta tell you though, watching this guy in action was a hoot!

He was a great boss...also showed me how realationships are ALL around and they ALL reuire a 50/50 share. You can't expect more if you don't do your part. It's a nice complement to all that my parents taught me.

Mili...nothing you wrote (or anyone else for that matter) offended me!

P/S Audrey's appetite is STILL really poor AND her diarhea is still present. I don't know that I can still blame it on the bug...we may be back to the ped.

I'll keep you posted.

[JungleWoman]

I do plan to do this is a business like fashion.

LOL I know what you mean-- I have the 'vent' me and the 'kiss azz but get my way' me too LOL!!

Go get em ;)

[milivica]

Don't worry guys, I'm pissed, and I'm completely 'loose' with you...but I DO know how to be professional and constructive...I just have to remember how, LOL!

I do plan to do this is a business like fashion. Mostly one step at a time and carefully.

Mili...nothing you wrote (or anyone else for that matter) offended me!

Nothing was offensive? Oh. Well I must be slipping (lol).

I'm sure you know how to be all business-like and such. But your objective will not become CYA, and theirs might be entirely that. Kinda like how things went for me at school. What'd be great, is if you had a way to get in touch with other parents who had similar experiences there, but, you do have a lawyer, that makes a huge difference.

Sorry to hear darling 'Chunka-lunka' still has that bug on top of everything else (I love your nickname for her). She needs to keep those GORGEOUS cheeks, hope her appetite is back very very soon. That was always scary for me when my babies had a loss of appetite.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I'll try to impress upon them that with the ever increasing incidence of kids with ASDs they need to start thinking about that and the effects that these types of things have on families, that they consider to be collateral damage. The damage is mounting now, particularly in a family with a child with SNs. Money is always a good motivator too...with almost 3 out of 4 'investigations' proving nothing, they at a bare minimum should change their approach or perspective when confronted with a 'potential' or 'questionable' situation.

Should be more like: Ok, this looks fishy, let's see if there is more to it.

Versus: This is suspicious, let's see if these a$$holes can wriggle their way out of this.

I think the part that has me most upset, I mean about the so called 'process' is the fact that we were 'held' there and with virtually no means to react. That we didn't even know what was going on and EVERYthing that we did or said was being microscoped. They literally had my family in their hands, and I was completely defenseless. At anytime one of these jerk-offs could have picked up the phone and Audrey would have been gone with no questions until CSS showed up at my door. That is just WAY too much power for them to have without any sort of 'defense' or protective measures from us...not to mention the fact that there seems to be absolutely NO consideration to what this all does to the members of a family. I shutter to think about the emotional scars that ANY child (even an abused one) would deal with when being ripped away from their familiar surrounding and thrust into a strangers care...and let's just NOT even go to CSS's abiltiy to choose trustworthy caretakers...GULP!

You guys will understand, but they likely won't, but now that Coley's been sick, we are dealing with regression. How the F does that factor into anything...for cripe sake THAT does Audrey more harm...now she needs to deal with the battles and emotional tormoil on that front. Course I can't prove it, but chances are these 2 flippin bugs we've been dealing with since the ER trips came FROM there! PLUS, Coley still won't let me out of his site OR sleep in his own bed. He was shuffled back & forth between the houses and wouldn't sleep that night (because the information coming from us was based on lies coming from the staff)...he was worried because he knew we were at the hospital with Audrey. He finally passed out in our bed for BIL while he waited for us to get home, which I never did.

I know, all minor compared to the kid that is getting beaten daily...I'm sorry I just don't accept that. A kid that is suffering from abuse is going to present that way...with emotional and developmental issues, not to mention some OBVIOUS signs.

I'm no expert, but there was a girl I walked to school with when I was little, like kindergarden/first grade. My mom knew something was up with her, and looking back on it I can see it too. She wasn't abused, but her mother was, and she clearly lived with it. Every morning she walked to my house to get me, then we continued on our way to school. But before we left she puked in our toilet. She was extremely quiet shy and withdrawn...not to mention thin. Not that all kids will express their stress in this same fashion, but certainly no smily face, giggling, affectionate chunka-lunka comes to mind when you consider a child who suffers from abuse. The buck should have stopped there! And to cover their a$$ a call to the ped should have made things abundantly clear.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Just wanted you all to know what happened today.

It was a VERY brief visit, well once we got into see the specialist...

They called the 2 breaks (and yes we AGAIN questioned a 3rd and were told no) both buckle fractures. Very common in little ones. And said we were lucky that she only hit her arm with that force, she obviously used her insticts to put her arm out.

I just sat there with amazement! That simple huh?! Funny how it was SO much more complicated than that before.

No new x-rays were needed, and no more follow-up necessary. Her prognosis is no future problems with a full recovery expected. And oh, no mention of any sort of brittle bone thing either. The best thing, the fractures being as "minor" as they are do not require a new cast as long as she is able to use her arm without discomfort.

So we are done now.

And I am just flabbergasted. Now, with the addition of this simplistic/minor assessment it has me gasping for words to comprehend the absolute obserdity that occured 2 weeks ago. Yup, 2 weeks...that means she's only had the cast 2 weeks...ehhhh, errrr, uhmmmm....was the cast EVER necessary?

Let's see if I can generate a word or two here... Alarmests? Overreactive? Opportunists? Bullies? nope that doesn't quite describe it does it? You guys got anything better?

[milivica]

>>>>>They called the 2 breaks (and yes we AGAIN questioned a 3rd and were told no) both buckle fractures. Very common in little ones.

True. A spiral fracture, especially had they xrayed her then seen old spiral fractures left untreated, that is a red flag for abuse. My ma's dh used to talk about it all the time, he saw kids autopsy results, worked in homicide for 30 years.

>>>>>No new x-rays were needed, and no more follow-up necessary. Her prognosis is no future problems with a full recovery expected. And oh, no mention of any sort of brittle bone thing either.

Wonderful!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Alright...just got off the phone with Dr. V. I just called to give him the update.

Told him basically the same thing I said above:

They called the 2 breaks (and yes we AGAIN questioned a 3rd and were told no) both buckle fractures and minor. And that they felt that she obviously used her insticts to put her arm out.

No new x-rays or cast were needed, and no more follow-up necessary. Her prognosis is no future problems with a full recovery expected.

His response: "Oh, buckle fractures ARE minor...they often don't even ace bandage or split older kids (with more breakable bones) with buckle fractures."

Why do I feel like we were some sort of lab rats for the night staffs enjoyment? Oh, I'm sorry, for their enlightenment?

Ahhh it's nice to know that I have absolutely NO recourse for being abused...since they stood so firmly on a governmental policy or whatever. :mad:

I just want to VOMIT!

[Isabelle]

i haven't had time to read your experience of late, but the latest a radiation burn on her sensitive skin, shows that this hospital has a lot explaining to do....in writing to each one of your concerns, follow by an apology and financial compensation, this way, perhaps, the hospital administration would learn to have a better rein and training of those rogue doctors
:( sad very sad :(

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I think I've figured out WHERE this whole thing went SO wrong!!!

In MA there is a 48 hour window to report. I'm assuming that at least one reason for that is to look further into something if a question is raised...but that's an assumption.

Here's a quote from the MA abuse & neglect booklet:


Injuries and Physical Abuse

The following examples of specific head, skeletal
and internal injuries could be signs of physical
abuse. Determinations regarding whether these
injuries are indicative of abuse also must include
consideration of the child’s medical history and
any diagnosed conditions, chronological age and
developmental status.

http://www.mass.gov/Eeohhs2/docs/dss/child_abuse_neglect_booklet.pdf


This says to me that BEFORE any such investigation should have been launched that South Shore had a responsibility to contact BOTH the examing doctor for those diagnostic conditions AND her pediatrician for her medical history!!!!!

Neither was done.

Now what the hell does that all mean for what transpired at Children's? Was there an assumption that Shouth Shore did this? If so is an assumption ok or should they have asked for this information? OR should they have done the same thing?

Ie: their own x-ray of her arm and review, obtain her medical history and diagnostic conditions (which I guess they could do through exam & discussion). But without a doubt BOTH facilities DID NOT COMPLY with obtaining her history! I'm not sure if Children's could say they got the diagnostic conditions with the exams they did.

Then of course there is the whole treatment (or should I say mis-treatment and non-treatment) that occured there.

UGH! Now what to do???????

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I just wanted to get a better understanding of the whole 'buckle' fracture versus green-tree fracture thing...and this is what I came across:

Buckle fractures also are common and result from axial loading on an extremity (ie, falling on an outstretched arm). There are two types of buckle fractures: the classic buckle fracture, in which there is outward buckling of the cortex (Figures 2A and B); and the angled buckle fracture, in which the cortex is merely angled (Figure 2C). In the classic buckle fracture, axial loading is almost pure and the resultant forces are distributed evenly across the metaphysis. As a result, the trabeculae are crushed along the fracture line (sclerosis) and the cortices at either end bulge outwardly. In some cases, bilateral cortical bulging occurs, while in other cases bulging is unilateral. With the angled buckle fracture, in addition to axial loading, some other force (ie, varus, valgus, hyperextension or hyperflexion) is also at play.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/446548_2


Definition: Torus fractures, or buckle fractures, are extremely common injuries seen in children. Because children have softer bones, one side of the bone may buckle upon itself without disrupting the other side; this is also known as an incomplete fracture.
The word torus is derived from the Latin word 'Tori' meaning swelling or protuberance. Children commonly sustain this injury by falling on an outstretched hand. Treatment of a torus or buckle fracture is by casting the injury for a short duration, usually about three weeks. These injuries tend to heal much more quickly than the similar greenstick fractures (http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/generalinfo4/g/greenstick.htm).

Definition: Because a child's bones are much more pliable than adult bone, an incomplete, or 'greenstick,' fracture may occur. A "greenstick fracture" means that one side of the fracture has broken and one side is bent; therefore it is classified as an incomplete break.

The name for a greenstick fracture comes from the analogy of breaking a young, fresh tree branch. The broken branch snaps on one side (the outer side of the bend), while the inner side is bent, and still in continuity. Most often the greenstick fracture must be bent back into the proper position (called a "reduction") and then casted for about six weeks. Greenstick fractures can take a long time to heal because they tend to occur in the middle, slower growing parts of bone.
http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/pediatricsurgery/g/torus.htm



I've seen the x-rays from both south shore and mgh...they are not green stick...they are just bulged with no split.

But regardless, both of these CLEARLY state that the fracture occurs from force straight onto the bone. Now I'm sure that there are ways in which this could happen under an abusive situation...perhaps making Audrey stand on her hands for hours on end without a rest or perhaps if I had someone hold her arm stretched out and wacked her hand with a bat or something...but isn't that a bit far fetched for even overzealous ER docs to come up with...

I was so confused by the ease by which the MGH specialist concluded this...uhmmmm, it's because a buckle fracture is impossible to obtain any other way!

Although, I have to now remember that the very start of this whole fiasco was due to the (non-pediatric) radiologist at South Shore questioning whether there was a previous untreated injury.

Ok, let's go with that for one second...

2 seperate incidents where Audrey stretched her arm out and received a force enough to bulge the bone....K...

Uhmm, says here that they heal VERY quickly...so that leaves quite a small window of opportunity for a second injury to still be present and visible on this x-ray, right?

AND, it also says there that buckle fractures are often not treated.

Now remember they don't have any information, and she's 10.5 mos...a logical thought could be that she's learning to stand/walk and has taken a couple tumbles...course that's not what happened, but it's a VERY likely scenario, so WTF??????

What happened here? Why am I starting to smell a big rat or something? This just doesn't add up! :confused:

Any one got an explanation?

[Tootsie]

Kristin, I've just had a chance to briefly skim your more recent posts. What I want to emphasize, is that a hard copy, double spaced letter, written and mailed by US Postal Service, to accrediting agencies, is going to make more waves, than any other action you, personally, can take. Yes, there is always the attorney's, the case workers, etc, but believe me, many of them, unless you are paying their salary, will be more interested in the public relations aspect of your story. ALWAYS, consider, who is paying their salary?

Write your letter, then wait and see what happens. Response will probably be either by phone, or a very carefully worded letter. Think carefully, about what you want the outcome to be. Basically, I think you probably want some assurance that procedures will be monitored, reviewed, re-written, and some kind of reprimand given to the professionals that erred in judgment. Say that you expect to be kept informed of the process they decide upon.

Besides the hospital and medical society, consider contacting the Child Protective Services in your county also and make your points with them also.

MAKE WAVES. Cheerio.