Vince and school...the new book on the RDI site

[milivica]

First, Vince is still doing GREAT in school, in stark stark contrast to last year, ummm, and the 7 years preceding last year (unless you consider 'babysitting' to be education, know what I mean?)

The RDI consultant came out again today, and is setting up a system to measure both Vincent's academic and RDI progress at school with graphs and it's all going to finally truly explain to me where he's at in all areas in school, both social and academic. I'll see when he does better and worse, and we will as a team be able to pin point what went right to keep doing it, and what went wrong if his progress declines or stops. I'm ecstatic. I'd have never thought of it, and don't know how it will all correlate together, but the consultant does, she's set this up at other schools. Honestly, IEP updates really don't tell me much, it's like you can make a sh!tburger with cheese sound great with the right legal verbiage.

Do you guys know what I mean?

Not to mention, all the times the 'goals' are rewritten in different words, so they sound different. Also, on an IEP, the METHOD of teaching isn't given, for Vince it will be.

So, that's it for now. I really thank God for our consultant, she's one of a kind type of person. A wonderful person with a wonderful spirit in a job where career and spirit can join, and she really really freakin knows what she's talking about. And unlike anyone in the past, when she tells you what autism is she then can tell you WHAT TO DO about it, can tell school what to do, orchestrate school and home. It's what I dreamed of all these years. You'd think I'd feel like Vince being 12 is 'too late' to start all this or something, no way. I do believe in that saying Never Too Late. I mean, unless you are gasping your very last breathe on earth, and even then why not make just that one last discovery or development. Ya know?

OH and the book I mentioned in the title is here http://www.rdiconnect.com/resources/viewResource.asp?pid=227 if that doesn't work go to www.rdiconnect.com and hit Online Store and find the book that is entitled:

The Relationship Development Intervention (RDI®) Program and Education
by Steven E. Gutstein, Ph.D.
Copyright © 2007

I would hope the book will explain how schools can integrate RDI school setting - which is absolutely necessary for every child on the spectrum, for every child in the school system weather asd or not actually, though nt kids get RDI automatically. Well anyhow, here's what the description says:

Description: For children education takes place sitting, standing, running and jumping, it translates into the change of the leaves, imaginary trips around the world and baking a chocolate cake. Learning like real life is something that never stands still.

In Dr. Gutstein’s latest book, The Relationship Development Intervention® Program and Education, readers meet a variety of empowered parents, professionals and consultants that have been able to maintain goals for quality of life, combining efforts in order to achieve effective remediation for their children and students with autism spectrum disorders.

This book is a tribute to the people that have been able to see past the system, and focus on the student.

Publisher: Connections Center Publishing; ISBN: 0977718601

Cost: $22.50

[peglem]

Mili, I'm so happy Vince (and you) are getting the things that all of our kids should be getting.

I went back and read Allie's school comm. log to see if it's really my imagination that their attitudes have changed since they found out Allie is off risperdal. (not since Allie has been off risperdal, since they didn't know until 3 or 4 weeks after). It shows in their language. Before, Allie was having "difficulty transitioning." Now she has "temper tantrums." Her end of the day "reward" (I have to find out WTF this is.) was never mentioned before, now I am frequently informed that she has not recieved it. I don't think she cares about the fricken reward anyway- that sort of thing has never been motivational for her. I'm not seeing a good way to change this- they'll claim her behavior is much worse off risperdal- I don't think it is...I know its better at home. I think w/o really realizing it, they have come to believe they can't help her w/o the medication. I don't really want to mess with their heads, but I'm considering lying and telling them when she gets back from Christmas break that we saw the psych and decided to put her back on the medication. My only fear is that I'll get caught in the lie and then there'll be no working with them.
Sorry, Mili, I really started out to just cheer for you and thank you for the book recommend. But, all that talk about Vince's last 7 years- well, I'm relating. Still, school babysitting DOES give me daily respite and though I know its their job to really educate her, they just don't know how and I can't make them. I may buy that book and send it to school when I'm done reading it. I want to see first because when I went to look for stuff on RDIconnect- to explain to the school what it was(when i thought I'd be starting in January), It seemed like so much of the stuff is written in a "sales-pitchy" way. I don't think that's on purpose- just they so believe in the program it comes off that way.

Anyway, sorry to sidetrack. I AM so happy for you and Vince and your whole family. really.:)

[milivica]

When I first read the RDI site I thought it sounded like slick bullsh!t promises, a husband and wife team out to pray on parents desperate for answers for their children. So I hear you about the 'sales-pitchy' thing. I just hope this book isn't like "My Baby Can Dance" in that, I don't want to read about others succeeding with this or any program, I want someone to tell me what to start doing, then do next and next and next. So, I hope the book isn't stories about how great it is to use RDI in school and all kinds of success stories, I want to DO, I don't want to research and study anymore. Honestly I'm sick of it. Of trying to be a scientist, researcher, teacher, dietician, everything but ENJOYING being a MOM.

Man, I hated those days...which were not at all too darn long ago.

Ya know, I really hear ya about the risperdal and school verbiage change. If you can maintain a lie, then lie. In this case, I really think it's not wrong. I have to wonder if they ever feel frustrated with Allie cause they feel frustrated with you for not 'helping' them to help her...at least I wonder if that's how they perceive it. I know Vincent's old school forever felt they were somehow 'victims', geez, I mean they were all Mother Teresa's or something. Or so they acted, and I think started to believe. Not the really good staff though, they were always the hardest working and most humble, their spirit matched their career, they never got defensive or big headed.

....ok wait I have to tell a story, cause I can't explain what I want to say. This morning, I heard a story from a good dog behaviorist (Patricia McConnel) anyhow, she was talking about a man whoooo, when he used a shock collar on his dog and it didn't work, he purchased another and tried two because "He did what most people do when things don't work, try MORE of it". When she said that it really struck a chord with me. Remembering all the times that was done to Vincent, trying more and more 'nt' things that really didn't work, then bumping up ultimately the same exact nt thing (more m&m's or different candy, longer time outs or punishments)

Anyhow, I have been reflecting on that since this morning. How when things don't work with autistic children, it seems so often their experience, is that folks just try MORE of what already didn't work. Overall, most things nt in terms of punishment and reward, don't work. So why continue that, such as Allie with 'rewards' at school. Do you see what I'm saying? So yes, that's been a big reflection for me all day. I'm still processing. It's a pretty big concept, a great observation.

[frogmama]

Somebody said (maybe Mark Twain?) the the definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting a different result. This is something I keep trying to tell my DH and kids - if you did it once and it didn't work or turned out poorly, DON'T JUST DO IT AGAIN AND EXPECT SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO HAPPEN!!!! :rolleyes:

[RathyKay]

Mili, I'm glad to hear things are going so well. Are *you* buying this book? I'd like to know your opinion of it, if / when you do.

Peg, I wouldn't lie, much as you might be tempted. Just because I wouldn't be able to keep it up. Tom had a new kid in his class for about a month and a half. He was not a good fit for the class, or at least the teacher and aides did not have the training to handle him. From what I could tell, he seemed to be one of the smarter kids in the class (good at talking), but he had no impulse control, would throw things (chairs included), cuss, and I don't know what else. As soon as he would start acting up, they would remove him from the situation (circle time, or the class) and walk him around to calm him down. I'm assuming the mom's objective was for the rest of the class to pull him up (learning to sit and learn at circle time, etc.), but instead the class was being pulled down to his level (everyone else getting fidgety and noisy and acting up and hoping to get out of circle time and learning centers). In the end, I felt kind of bad, but I did write a letter of concern. Tom is in a race for smallest in his class and I heard he was running behind one of the aides for protection (plus, he probably wouldn't see an attack or chair coming in time to protect himself); he was spit on; and he picked up an annoying siren sound from this kid. Thankfully, Tom has not started cussing, but some of the other boys in class did start. Ugh! Anyway, during the midst of this month and a half, one day the boy was noticeably calmer. The mother wouldn't answer the question of whether he was on any meds or not. But, they would ask the boy at school if he took a pill that day and he would answer them. They could tell a difference on days he took a pill and days he didn't. (In the end, there was another boy - the one Tom is in the race for smallest in the class - who was scared to come to school because of this kid and I guess they documented enough stuff that he's under evaluation for another class.) So, going along with the pills... Tom's teacher said something about now that this kid is on medication, social services can be called if the mom doesn't keep him on it.

Anyway, I am by no means saying put Allie back on Risperdal. You and your doc both agree it's not helping. I'm just wondering if lying could cause a big mess.
Overall, most things nt in terms of punishment and reward, don't work.
Yes, this is true with Tom, too. I only tried washing his mouth out with soap once. I didn't want him to eat the bar.:rolleyes: Samantha complains a lot that we never punish Tom, but that's mostly because it's hard to come up with a punishment that's appropriate and would mean something to him. Rewards are hard to come up with, too. At this point, threatening to send him to his room for a time out and take away his calendar is our "big gun."

[peglem]

Well, I probably won't lie- I'm just not that good at it. But, my point is that the school could not tell the difference between medicated Allie and nonmedicated Allie...but, their language changed (and I think attitudes towards me) when they found out that she was taken off risperdal. She is still on lamictal and it has been increased to help with behavior. And Allie does not attack other kids or teachers- she self injures and will automatically fight anyone who tries to interfere (even if she WANTS them to) with SIBS. If there was a magic pill out there that could put a stop to this, I'd be there. We've tried so many meds with her- nothing seems to help. I could push the valium until she sits quietly in a corner and drools or well where ever they want her to sit and drool. It takes rather large quantities of valium to even calm her and when she's coming down....crying, crying, crying. I don't like when her episodes are called temper tantrums, because they aren't. She doesn't get mad- she gets scared. I can't imagine being that frightened that often.

Anyway, when i was teaching- there were children who were like night and day w/ meds and I could tell immediately when they'd not taken them. But I haven't found a med that works like that for Allie. I haven't found a psychiatrist who can figure out what to do with her either. I HATE going to the psychiatrist. Allie plays while I sit and talk about her like she's not there and she overhears me telling all her "secrets". If they can't communicate with her anyway- why don't they just see me? Ugh, I better quit now...no use my getting all upset here.

[milivica]

RathyKay, yes, I'm ordering the book tomorrow. Definitely.

[RathyKay]

Hey Peg... Just want to be sure you know I wasn't attacking you. I just didn't like the lying idea, even if it would add proof of their Risperdal-colored glasses. (Besides, they'll never admit it, even when you catch them.) I've been in the seizure world long enough to know that these meds are all trial- and-error. What works for one kid may not work for another. And (unfortunately) sometimes it seems like none of them work for some poor kids. I've played the med game with Tom: at least one didn't work; got him toxic (drunken sailor) on another. I am very thankful to have him under pretty good control through diet. But, if things ever get "ugly" again, we'll play the game again. (The thought of puberty and all the hormonal changes and risks of returning seizures scares me.) Anyway, it's been a crazy month and a half with that kid, and I probably rambled more than I should have. Just wanted to make sure you know I'm not attacking you.

[peglem]

Don't worry about it. I didn't feel attacked. The history of this problem is on another thread so I assumed my point wasn't clear here. And it seems out of character for you to attack. For the record tho, the lie would not be to "catch them". I don't think they are consciously doing anything. I just would like to change their attitude back to "Allie's having a tough time" instead of "Allie is throwing a tantrum."

After pondering this last night, I'm wondering if part of her problems at school is the dress code. (which is you have to wear clothes!) Here, she frequently strips and we put a big tshirt on her. But, at school, she doesn't strip, so I wonder if she's getting agitated because she feels the need to go buff, but can't satisfy it. Also, here she takes off her clothes anytime she gets something on them (like a drip of water when she takes a drink or a bit of food when she eats). She's not been eating much at school and she seems awfully thirsty when she gets home, so I wonder if she's avoiding those so she won't have to take off her clothes. Then she gets very irritable because of hunger and thirst. I'm afraid if I share this theory with her teacher they'll think I'm a kook making excuses for bad behavior. But, I KNOW Allie doesn't want to behave badly. I'll try anyway- they already think I'm a kook, so what do I have to lose?

[tgrimes]

After pondering this last night, I'm wondering if part of her problems at school is the dress code. (which is you have to wear clothes!)

Ha hahahaha! That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!:D

[peglem]

Glad I made you smile!

[milivica]

After pondering this last night, I'm wondering if part of her problems at school is the dress code. (which is you have to wear clothes!)

HA!!!!! I missed that, lolol.

[Isabelle]

I am so glad to hear Vince is doing so well !!! Really this news warm up my heart. I hope he continue progressing, you worked so hard to get RDI for him.

[Isabelle]

If Allie is reacting positively to Lamictal, that is a drug used not only as anti convulsant but as "mood stabilizer". So she is not 'off meds", she is just on a different "meds"....but I guess that won't cut with these teachers who want children on Risperdal or nothing :(

[RathyKay]

(I know, I'm trying to derail this thread) So have you done the brushing therapy and joint compressions with Allie? It's supposed to help with clothing / texture issues. We did it because Tom did NOT like his hands to be touched and had very weak hands as a result. (Not that he's super strong now.) It really made a difference. It's so nice to be able to hold his hands in a parking lot. Yeah, hunger and thirst probably don't help.

[peglem]

Sorry for the derailment, Mili.

We have done brushing and joint compressions, in fact school is (supposed to be) doing sensory stuff to help with her behavior. That's not fair of me- I think they are doing it.

Allie's report today: Allie didn't do any activities today. She tantrummed all day long, except recess. She did not get her reward.

She's better at home- really. She's mostly happy and cooperative here all the time.