Article~Fever can unlock autism's grip temporarily

[rhyanen]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22080089/

This is quite interesting, and I recall in the past, someone on this board had posted about this same topic happening with their child during a fever, and this was before this study was done. I don't recall who it was, but has anyone here noticed this with their child?

Amy

[Mother's Heart]

I'm one of those parents who've noted this anecdoctally and written here about it before. Definitely present in my DS. He also strikingly reached motor milestones during fevers/illness.

[JungleWoman]

I've totally noticed this myself!

[peglem]

Allie does not get fevers. Infact she normally runs a bit on the low side: 96-97. We thought for years she had wonderful health!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Coley used to run low all the time too...I've read that the body does not function, metabolically, very well at lower temps...it used to freak me out ALL the time that his temp was low (96-97 too)!

Since restricting his diet it has gotten a LOT closer to normal!

BUT, whenever he would get sick, and his temp would go up, we'd notice improvements...like you Pegs it wasn't what anyone else would call a fever...but if you consider that +2 degrees for a person with a normal temp would be a low grade fever...I ALWAYS considered 99+ to be that for Coley...and this is when we'd see good things too..His temp did go to 104 once and I nearly lost my mind KNOWING it was like 7 points above his normal...but he's only gone over 102 that one time.

The results of this study are important because they show us that the autistic brain is plastic, or capable of altering current connections and forming new ones in response to different experiences or conditions,"

This is interesting for sure...especially since I always thought his system was just not operating properly and that's why he was having trouble developmentally...as soon as his temp went close to normal...so did he.

But this statement REALLY irks me! WTF! :mad: they make it sound like kids with ASDs are not human...aren't ALL brains capable of altering current connections and forming new ones in response to different experiences or conditions...

...even animals, isn't that why they do expirements with lab rats!

GRRR! These people really infuriate me sometimes! It's just ONE more example of WHY we can't get anywhere...these kids have clearly been written off as 'lost causes' or whatever... Crikie, they don't even expect them to perform as well as a fricken rodent! And the REALLY putred (sp) thing is that they come right out and say it, and no one flinches!

[mc4_a]

I've never noticed this. I'd like to see the original study. It seems based on the article that they are jumping to some conclusions about what's happening during the fever.

I think sometime extreme circumstance sometimes push Autistic individuals to communicate and interact more. Saying "My tummy hurts" or "I feel hot" becomes important. They have more of an incentive to communicate. Look at the poor kid that had his eyes poked out the other day. He went from mute to telling the police that his aunt attacked him.

I'd really like to see MRI data associated to this. If you start basing it on anecdotal observations suggestion comes into the mix and it's not really good data anymore.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

We used to see milestones hit. They didn't go away after either.

Not just, I'm desperate so I must speak to someone...

We'd see a wide range of skill development, actually more of the non-communication type.

[mc4_a]

Allie does not get fevers. Infact she normally runs a bit on the low side: 96-97. We thought for years she had wonderful health!

98.6 is an arbitrary number used to measure these things. The truth is the normal temperature for humans varies. Unless you're at 95 or below, there's no need for concern. Anything below that and you need to look at other underlying causes.

[mc4_a]

But this statement REALLY irks me! WTF! :mad: they make it sound like kids with ASDs are not human...aren't ALL brains capable of altering current connections and forming new ones in response to different experiences or conditions...

...even animals, isn't that why they do expirements with lab rats!

GRRR! These people really infuriate me sometimes! It's just ONE more example of WHY we can't get anywhere...these kids have clearly been written off as 'lost causes' or whatever... Crikie, they don't even expect them to perform as well as a fricken rodent! And the REALLY putred (sp) thing is that they come right out and say it, and no one flinches!

Yes, yes, yes and yes. Our kids do move slower but they do improve all the time. This is why I get so infuriated when at a certain age they just say "well let's just work on life skills". No, my child can still learn. Teach math, writing, reading...let's keep going. Let's not give up.

[peglem]

98.6 is an arbitrary number used to measure these things. The truth is the normal temperature for humans varies. Unless you're at 95 or below, there's no need for concern. Anything below that and you need to look at other underlying causes.

Yeah, i know. I figure its just normal for her- but now that I mention it- maybe I should take her temp more often, just to see. I usually only take it when I think she feels warm and may have a fever- Yikes! Wonder if its normally lower? Hmmmm.

[mrsjerome]

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/120/6/e1386
This is the study from the Pediatric Journal

[Isabelle]

my son became "autistic" after MRI and after three days of 104 fever, he was listless and his ped says, "drugstore thermometers are not accurate" and to give him every 4 hours a baby aspirin.... which reduce it to 102.
he never had fevers that make him less "autistic" I thought he was the healthiest guy in town.

[ainee]

I've been writing for ages about a risen temperature increases blood circulation, oxygen circulation and oxygen content, to the tissues, cells, organs - including the brain. I believe it will give better health to many -regardless of illness, condition, diagnosis or cause.
Maybe I could be half right after all.
I posted - ADHD and other conditions by ainee - in ADHD - last post 4-17-2007.
ainee.

[JungleWoman]

The biggest thing I have observed with Aaron is he calms down SO much and is able to function more 'normally'. He doesnt necessarily act like someone sick, either -- just a much calmer version of himself-- he doesnt handflap or scream in excitement over things and is able to play a bit more appropriately with toys. Last time he had a fever it brought forth echolalia. Before, he couldnt do it. He still does it!

I cant say Im looking forward to every fever to bring about a milestone, but I've observed it more than once and am not upset!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

JW - Us too...

Coley is VERY hyper...I'm fairly certain that if he were to be reassessed today that they would reclassify him ADHD, and maybe a bit more...he is excentric too and can get fixated...but the hyperactivity, lack of focus and frustration is his biggest hurdle today.

Anyhoo...I noticed the same thing...not sick acting, calm and focused!

I've been looking at it more like he's amped down...but his thought process is less scattered too...

KJ

[mc4_a]

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/120/6/e1386
This is the study from the Pediatric Journal

Great. Thank you.

It's just as a suspected. The methods may be a little flawed and open to suggestion. Additionally, if there is an effect, they are not sure if it is because the effect the fever has on behavior or if it is a biological factor.

Still interesting. Let's hope they put more research into this.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Fevers are a reactive process to attack the invading microbes, right?

I can't help wondering if somehow while launching an attack on one microbe, another may be getting beaten down too.

But I still have all that info in my head about how the body functions more efficienctly closer to 98.6...

It is interesting for sure!

I agree, let's hope this gets a closer, more scientific, look!

But also have to say, here! here! Thank you for listening! Seems like they are FINALLY realizing that parents DO have some good info to share when it comes to these kids, actually all kids...but much more ctitically, ours!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

This is interesting...

http://www.mall-net.com/mcs/coldbody.html

I'm trying to find something a little more 'scientific' about incresing &/or maintaining proper body temp...and came across this. I didn't go through all the links, but thought it had a few interesting things, particularly the yeast stuff with low body temp.

I'll post back more if I find anything good or more 'reliable.'

edited to add this: http://www3.fhs.usyd.edu.au/bio/homeostasis/Human_BodyTC_Pg01.htm

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

This is interesting:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/11/03/bodytemp_hea.html?category=health&guid=20061103163030

I guess this means Coley will break an age record!

I on the other hand will die an early death with all the stress and frustration I have over his lack of calorie intake and all the abnormal signals his body gives off! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_11.gif

[RathyKay]

I have not noticed this in Tom. On the other hand, Tom is not technically autistic, so this would be another mark in the "not autistic" column.:o I do think he tends to run at a lower body temperature, as do I. Lately, I've actually been wondering if he's been running a little warmer (closer to normal, not feverish) the past month or so? We've had some cold weather recently and his hands don't seem to be so cold to me. I keep thinking this is a positive.

Our DAN! doc commented on some of the bloodwork we had run, wondering if Tom had thyroid (I'm assuming hypothyroid) issues. I was supposed to take his (is it basal?) body temperature first thing in the morning, before he jumps out of bed and gets going, for several mornings in a row. I never got the job done, because a) Tom gets up too early:o, and b) I never figured out how to accurately work the ear thermometer. I kind of figured Tom would never lie still in bed for a minute for me to get a regular thermometer reading.

[RathyKay]

Kristen, I forgot to add, I love that one cold body temperature link you posted (http://www.mall-net.com/mcs/coldbody.html). As core body temperature begins to drop...
Things begin to accumulate in corners and small piles.
Immune system slows and falters. Allergies and colds more common.
Persistence, dogged tenaciousness in pursuit of a purpose, a train of thought. (Oft mistaken for Genius.)
Vulcan logic begins a slow, and increasingly faltering meander away from center stage.
The sink sporadically fills, clean utensils become scarce despite the dishwasher.
Mental horizons begin to shrink. (Oft mistaken for Expert.)
Anhedonia, the interest in pleasure begins to evaporate.
Chemical Sensitivities become increasingly serious problems as enzymatic pathways slow and clog.
Procrastination of deeper thought for better times of day.
Cycles reveal themselves. Several naps, the daily norm.
Mental agility soon reveals it's slow and gradual decline to others.
The desk, the workbench, the coffee table all begin to congeal as piles grow.
Tenaciousness of opinion begins to win out over thought or logic.
Anti-hedonia, avoidance of pleasure, and sometimes excitement.
Stepping over things. The mess becomes "Convenience at hand".
So...I'm cold. That's why my house is a mess! (I need to remember to show this to Mr. Kay.)

[rhyanen]

The biggest thing I have observed with Aaron is he calms down SO much and is able to function more 'normally'. He doesnt necessarily act like someone sick, either -- just a much calmer version of himself-- he doesnt handflap or scream in excitement over things and is able to play a bit more appropriately with toys. Last time he had a fever it brought forth echolalia. Before, he couldnt do it. He still does it!

Yes! That is exactly how I would describe Tristan when he has a fever. Better overall functioning. Though he does seem to go in and out of sleep alot when he has a fever, but when he's awake, he's actually such a joy to be around( I know that sounds crazy because no mother likes their child to be sick.) I just wish he could be like that when he's not sick..24/7

[jbrules1]

this has been true for my son also. we would often say that he is rather NT when unwell. Jan

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

This has been one thing that has made it hard for me to determine if he is sick or perhaps has allergies or something...

Generally when someone is sick they get 'brain-fog' or whatever and cranky...the opposite happens with Coley so I'm always wondering whether we should add an allergist to the long list of Drs or whether he's got some bug...I'm SO glad to see this happens with you guys too...

Now I'm MUCH more confident that he does not have allergies and that he is typically a-typical, hee hee...

Crazy though, isn't it! I wonder why this happens. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with! Let's just hope it's not some lame assumption on their part like...because they are so unwell it puts them in better tune with the signals from their body, or some horse-crap like that!

I wonder if it's their immune system beating down whatever the heck disrupts them normally, or just that their metabolic system is working more 'optimally'... if so, that could REALLY shed some good light on the problem as a whole, ya know...