OMG I am scared of something I just read

[tgrimes]

I just found out something that is really freaking me out, like I think theo was abused a long time ago at school, and i'm just now putting this together and figuring things out....
Because of gwyn's post, i was looking up school restraint laws, then looked for florida laws, and came across a bunch of stories on pinellas county schools investigating the use of the body sock (or sox as they call it) as a restraint because of an incident last year.
My heart just sank. Back when theo developed the school phobia, it was the same time as an incident involving a body sock.... which I didn't even know what it was at the time.
That day he got a report of battery against a teacher, the PT. At first the report said he refused to put on his shoes, then when the PT was doing it, he kicked her in the face. It was at least one or two days later, when I was trying to find out what precipitaed the shoe incident, that I found out about a body sock. The vice principal said that she didn't know what it was, it was a new thing, I would have to ask the pt... but she told me it was considered a therapy for sensory. Well if it was so enjoyable, why did he become agressive after being unzipped and let out from it then?
OMG, I am starting to cry even writing about this, I better finish this later.
I need to call my sister before I turn into a mess here, i feel sick.

[moose53]

((((((TG)))))),

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/moose53/MINIS/HUGS/huggiebears-mini.gif

Take a deep BREATH. And calm yourself. In your calmness, you'll know what needs to be done.

Hugs.

Barb

[Pamster]

I remember that story tgrimes. Mili's son likes the body sock if I remember correctly, but the school used one on a child I think was NT and not autstic and that was the problem, the child was understandly upset by being so confined. I don't think schools should use them without parental consent. I mean if your kid LIKES it and it HELPS them calm down, then fine give the school the okay to use it, but if your kid is set off and has panic when using one why set them off like that? :(

Do you know for sure one was used with your son Theo? I dont' know the laws here in FL on the use of restraints in schools but I know they use a big time out room at my son's school, I don't think they use any kind of restraints...This makes me wonder now, I hope you are able to find out what is going on tgrimes. Hang in there, it's going to be all right. :)

[milivica]

Vince likes his body sock cause it is spandex and stretchy and HE controls the velcro closure. I can't even imagine forcing a kid into a body sock, it would be difficult to do, they are flimsy (spandex) with a velcro closure. I wonder if they are calling something else, a body sock. You could bite your way out of a body sock, tear your way out, it's material like a bathing suit.

I'm sorry you feel so sick, I don't blame you. I have those feelings still myself. You have to be a freakin detective, to know what questions to ask and get honest answers. If school decides they are not going to tell you something, nothing you can ask or say, will get them to volunteer the information. It's not your fault, but I know that doesn't take away Theo going through what ever he did, to develop a school phobia. I'm guessing like Vince, you cannot do a q&a with him so you can get answers.

Hang tight, you don't know any of this for sure yet, right? Brace yourself and try to find out the truth, but brace yourself that hopefully your worst fears are not the truth.

((((Mili))))

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

OMG! I speechless. I'm going to reserve my reply for after your next comments.

Have you ever asked Theo if this was used?

[RathyKay]

I think there's a big difference between using it for sensory needs versus using it as a restraint. Our OT was using a thin foam mattress pad to wrap Tom in. (Lie on the floor and roll him up in it.) He liked it, but it was for sensory purposes, not restraint.

(((Hugs))) I don't know what to tell you about Theo. Just sending (((hugs)))

[tgrimes]

I have calmed down considerably, when I called my sister she kept telling me too, I needed to calm down so I could think what I need to do besides get more distraught. I was sobbing hysterically, because right around this time the phobia was so bad, I had to drag him out of the car as he was kicking and screaming, get him to the steps, where they were prepared to grab him if he ran, and hurry away. I cried all the way to work those days.
I had to started going to counseling again because of it, hoping to hear someone say, no, that's not right, stop doing that. No one did, they said just keep it up and the phobia should go away.
So yes, now I am doing something productive so I don't despair over my guilt for dragging him into the school against all my 'what is right' instincts... looking through my 6-inch file of school papers and trying to figure out if the dates coincide with the phobia.
I wish I had the old board to look at... I remember posting something about him getting suspended for kicking the PT in the face... for trying to put his shoes on when he wouldn't. It was actually more like he couldn't. So he got suspended for two days. I don't remember if it was someone here or someone in my family that asked 'why didn't they just let him wear his socks' and carry his shoes to the car circle if that's what he wanted so bad?
I wanted the answer to that myself, because it seemed so common sense. So I went and talked to the VP about the suspension, and she was horrified that I would think any kid should be walking around in sock just to make them happy, which was when I asked why, then, did someone take his shoes off in the first place? (He couldn't do it himself). That's when she explained the PT was trying out the new body sock. So this would have been his first time in it. I asked what it was, and she said she didn't know anything about it, ask the PT.
Since I was a member here at the time, I just asked here, and someone posted a link to a picture, it said it was for sensory awareness, I remember it looked kind of stupid, but I wasn't 'bothered' by it.
Theo didn't communicate well at the time, so I didn't get much out of him except that it was 'dark' and 'had a zipper', but he didn't run screaming or anything like that when I asked, so I wouldn't have been suspicious it was some kind of punishment or restraint.

[gynwhyver]

Oh, no, you are NOT in Pinellas, are you???? You're in Florida??? We're getting all kinds of complaints about schools in Florida, especially Lee County (like the school that left a little girl with autism in a bricked "seclusion room" for over 3.5 hours, who beat her head bloody off a wall - I've got video footage of her in that room!) and are working with Florida P&A on some of them. My friend Phyllis, who is the Director for Families Against Restraint and Seclusion, is IN Florida. Her son was restrained over 65 times in school that were documented, and is still on hospital homebound with PTSD two years later. She didn't know he was restrained either until she got copies of his records. I personally know several other moms in Florida with similar stories.

If there's anything at all I can do to help, please let me know. Phyllis is out of town at a training in Orlando this weekend, but I know she would call you just to talk if you'd like. And I can call you after 9 pm EST, as well. Please feel free to PM me.

You can find our blog here, which includes the names of schools where we know Restraints & Seclusions have been used, sometimes resulting in death, and some tips you can use if you suspect your child has been restrained (but since this may have happened a while ago, some of the tips won't apply):

http://familiesagainstrestraintandseclusion.blogspot.com

((((Hugs)))) Please let me know if there's anything I can do!

Gwyn

[Isabelle]

i have no idea what is "body sock", yes I am reading that theo developed a phobia because of that, i read also "foam", "dark", "zipper" that is used for sensory issues, that Vince likes it....someone cares to illuminate me?
i know about physical restraints, i saw one done to my son in the group home which i thought cruel, we never needed to use it. before admitted to a group home he also suddenly didn't want to go a new school, despite the fact he loved to learn, we blame the drug thorazine for his inability to move, but i remember in car rides,if we got close to that place he would scream and shake his body.

[tgrimes]

Gwyn - Yeah, pinellas. We have a beuatiful county, just has some serious school issues. You'd think the huge tax increases they are dredged in these last few years from the real estate boom would have supported some improvement on these things. I think the financial windfall came in the form of glistening new buildings that look nice from the outside.
Your posts and information is going to be real helpful to me... and the way more horrible things contained are helpful to me to put this in perspective.
just give me a day or so get from wounded to proactive. I'll pm you then. Phyllis sounds like a super good contact.


Oh, no, you are NOT in Pinellas, are you???? You're in Florida??? We're getting all kinds of complaints about schools in Florida, especially Lee County (like the school that left a little girl with autism in a bricked "seclusion room" for over 3.5 hours, who beat her head bloody off a wall - I've got video footage of her in that room!) and are working with Florida P&A on some of them. My friend Phyllis, who is the Director for Families Against Restraint and Seclusion, is IN Florida. Her son was restrained over 65 times in school that were documented, and is still on hospital homebound with PTSD two years later. She didn't know he was restrained either until she got copies of his records. I personally know several other moms in Florida with similar stories.

If there's anything at all I can do to help, please let me know. Phyllis is out of town at a training in Orlando this weekend, but I know she would call you just to talk if you'd like. And I can call you after 9 pm EST, as well. Please feel free to PM me.

You can find our blog here, which includes the names of schools where we know Restraints & Seclusions have been used, sometimes resulting in death, and some tips you can use if you suspect your child has been restrained (but since this may have happened a while ago, some of the tips won't apply):

http://familiesagainstrestraintandseclusion.blogspot.com

((((Hugs)))) Please let me know if there's anything I can do!

Gwyn

[tgrimes]

Here's a quote from the teacher in the recent story:

"The verbal warnings given to [the boy] prior to its use were not working. If I wanted to 'discipline' him he would've been in time-out ."

Doesn't sound like it was being used as a teaching tool, it was used because verbal warnings didn't work. The articles say the mom saw the kid in the bag screaming, he pulled down the zipper and the aide zipped it back up.
When the parents pressed to see classroom required daily logs.... that date said he had a good day. :eek:

[Pamster]

HOW can you find out if restraints have been used? Are we legally entittled to copies of our kids school records? I am worried it could be what's wrong with Jackie, he's not liking school so much anymore. ANd if this is why I need to find out and STOP it. :(

[peglem]

I believe you do have the right to obtain a copy of your child's school records. You may have to request SPED records separately- they are not in the regular school file. BUT, whether the school kept accurate records or "edits" the file before you recieve it is something you cannot know.

[gynwhyver]

Pam:

Yes, you are entitled to access & copies of your child's records under FERPA (The Family Education Rights and Privacy Act), and IDEA 2004, The Individuals With Disabilities Education Act. Click here for more info:

FERPA: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/ferpa.php

Sample FERPA letter: http://www.spednet.org/FERPAsample.htm

IDEA: http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/disabilitylaws/qt/examinerecords.htm (According to IDEA, parents ARE to receive FREE copies!!)

The biggest problem is that many times, there are no records of these abuses, and the main "tip off" that something is going on in school is the child's behaviors completely change - maybe they suddenly become aggressive or act out. Maybe they withdraw, stop doing things that once they liked. Maybe they show signs of physical illness, or are otherwise averse to going to school (active refusal, for example). My daughter became self-injurious (hit herself in the head) when she couldn't do her school work and would say to herself over and over again, "I can't do this, I can't do this," would "shut down" and would run any time she didn't get her way. It got to the point where I literally couldn't take her anywhere, because she would just take off. There were times she would come home from school crying hysterically (her aides would say she was put on the van that way), but couldn't tell me why (other than maybe someone was mean. A lot of times she would be "bribed" with candy, and on those days she came home happy because no matter what happened that day, all she'd talk about was the candy. And she couldn't verbalize what was going on until ,months later...when asked specifically if she wanted to go back to school. That's when she said she couldn't because all they did was drag her around by her arms all day. She also told the developmental psych this summer that she was bullied by boys at school - they would push her up against a fence at the playground and wouldn't let her go. Yet they were her "friends" only sometimes those "friends" were "mean." And with her...she is unable to separate fact from fiction/fantasy from reality, so is she telling something that happened or is it something that she's making up? We don't know and those who were there won't tell us.

MANY kids with autism or are otherwise non-verbal/ communication impaired are abused in schools because personnel doing this think they can get away with it (unfortunately many times they do.) because kids can't "say" what's happening. However, behavior is a MAJOR tipoff.

Please feel free to contact me if I can help.

Take care,

Gwyn

[Pamster]

Thanks Gwyn! I will have to see what I learn from the school. I am afraid to make waves, but sadly Jackie is having behavior issues these days that make us wonder if something is going on at school...

[tgrimes]

, but i remember in car rides,if we got close to that place he would scream and shake his body.

Everyone is bringing up things that I had forgot... that was one of them. he wouldn't get ready, wouldn't get into the car, and the closer you got to the school the more he became like a caged animal.
I looked though our files today of that time period, even though there is a 'paper trail' that things went downhill hard and fast right at his time, I just can't be sure what the problem was. I saw a note where we had told the school we thought his behavior had changed because their room was remodeled, and his bed was facing a different direction. Really, we wondered a lot about what was going on.
But I do remember I was not on his side at the time, I got called to the school so many times per week I lost my job. I hated that he was becoming agressive, I even spanked him one time because I had to pick him up because of a suspension written up as agression toward another student, then was told two days later by one of the teachers that she wasn't sure what happened, but one of the other students said he was only feeling the fabric on another student's shirt. That ws shocking enough to question why i should believe the admistrator's story over my son's ever again.
I should have questioned why the terrible behaviors at school, but not at home. Yes, he had problems at home with resisting participation (still does) but was not agressive or a 'bully'.
So that whole month, from april 2003 till I wised up and put in a transfer request in May, and never doubted him again, he basically had no one on his side, for that ... i don't think i can forgive myself. :(

[moose53]

((((((TG)))))),


So that whole month, from april 2003 till I wised up and put in a transfer request in May, and never doubted him again, he basically had no one on his side, for that ... i don't think i can forgive myself.


You can't treat yourself that way -- it's not fair. You're looking at something in the past with wisdom and knowledge that you have NOW. What you did at the time, what any Mother does, was the best that you could given the information and the knowledge that you had -- at the time.

The thing that's so wonderful about raising children is that they're pretty resilient. As long as everything you do is based on love, they remember that. I don't think -- actually I **KNOW** your intent was not to hurt your child -- kids can sense that.

Now that you've gotten smarter and stronger and learned more, you can advocate better for your child.

I really wish there was like a *UNION* of parents of kids with autism and asperger's. It seems like every parent is fighting pretty much the same battle to get their kids the services they're entitled to and to get the education that they **NEED**, while at the same time, making sure that no one with a hidden agenda harms your child.

It's a tough row to hoe. I admire the strength and commitment and perseverance of all of you Moms and Dads that get up and FIGHT every day for your child.

Give yourself a HUG, TG. Forgive yourself. And start from this place and time. Hugs.

Barb

[peglem]

So that whole month, from april 2003 till I wised up and put in a transfer request in May, and never doubted him again, he basically had no one on his side, for that ... i don't think i can forgive myself. :(

And why should you forgive yourself? If only you'd been clairvoiyant enough(like a GOOD mom) to know that the school was doing this and lying to you, then you would have done the right thing! You hold fast to that guilt, girl! No parent should ever make a mistake- whaddya think you are, human or something? I know that sounds harsh, but I'm only giving it to you straight because I consider you a friend!


Oh, yeah- thanks for the LIFE spinner. It arrived Wednesday, but I'm back to work partime, so wasn't home when she opened it. But we've been playing with it. Not sure she makes the agitator connection, but loves anything that spins! But, you know what? She's not doing it compulsively anymore!:D

[Mother's Heart]

bummer! lost my post.

Isabelle, bodysox pic

sorry link didn't work. I'll pull it up later.

[Mother's Heart]

fun: my DD once actually 'wore' our bright orange bodysox as her costume to an Autism ctr halloween party. She enviioned herself the Cingular logo orange blob dude. :) She looked like him too.

[Isabelle]

bummer! lost my post.

Isabelle, bodysox pic

sorry link didn't work. I'll pull it up later.

Thank you ! I got it !!! So it supposed to be fun, but, I assume, that the teachers use it with anger and, I assume, in a dark room ???? to scare the child. Besides restraining the child...? My son had a fractured collarbone, but I didn't understand what entailed "physically restrained" until we saw one, horrible! At home we never did that, i hold his hand to cross the streets, usually warning him of waiting for me at the curb and to give me his hand, after drugs he would run unexpectedly, so i would warn him and hold on to his arm, i was told that was "physically restraint"... so that has another name that gwyn explained. After Risperdal caused his headbangs to become chronic my dlh used a much gentle restraint that looked more like an embrace while saying soothing words.ok,I learning.

[Isabelle]

But I do remember I was not on his side at the time, I got called to the school so many times per week I lost my job. I hated that he was becoming agressive, I even spanked him one time because I had to pick him up because of a suspension written up as agression toward another student, then was told two days later by one of the teachers that she wasn't sure what happened, but one of the other students said he was only feeling the fabric on another student's shirt. That ws shocking enough to question why i should believe the admistrator's story over my son's ever again.
I should have questioned why the terrible behaviors at school, but not at home. Yes, he had problems at home with resisting participation (still does) but was not agressive or a 'bully'.
So that whole month, from april 2003 till I wised up and put in a transfer request in May, and never doubted him again, he basically had no one on his side, for that ... i don't think i can forgive myself. :(

join the club !!!! we were so stupidly trusting of those so called "experts", i also didn't "listen" to my poor boy, we were sooo stupid!!! if i could live my life again... :mad: :mad: :mad: my husband died unhappily regretting....:mad:

[tgrimes]

And why should you forgive yourself? If only you'd been clairvoiyant enough(like a GOOD mom) to know that the school was doing this and lying to you, then you would have done the right thing! You hold fast to that guilt, girl! No parent should ever make a mistake- whaddya think you are, human or something? I know that sounds harsh, but I'm only giving it to you straight because I consider you a friend!


Oh, yeah- thanks for the LIFE spinner. It arrived Wednesday, but I'm back to work partime, so wasn't home when she opened it. But we've been playing with it. Not sure she makes the agitator connection, but loves anything that spins! But, you know what? She's not doing it compulsively anymore!:D

You're right peglem. And I need to forgive myself before I can forgive others, I think. But then after that happens... I take action with gwyn's group!

Well, good allie didn't freak out over the spinner. Did she ever put it back in the white box? time to send her a miniature washing machine! :)

[tgrimes]

join the club !!!! we were so stupidly trusting of those so called "experts", i also didn't "listen" to my poor boy, we were sooo stupid!!! if i could live my life again... :mad: :mad: :mad: my husband died unhappily regretting....:mad:

You're right... I need not go to the grave mad in this life, lest I be reincarnated with that anger or something terrible like that. :)
(that's what one of my friends who is into 'new age' books would tell me)

[tgrimes]

Mili just wondering....
I remember one of the things that helped me back then, when this was first going on, was when YOU got really mad about it, and you posted something like
"Oh, Now I am really pissed... why would some trained therapist put her FACE right in front of the FEET of an angry autistic child.??? Soundes like it is her fault!!!
and I really thought about it, and it helped me get on theo's side...
do you remember that?
You may have been instrumental in changing the outcome of his situation. Who knows how long I would have gone on being on the school's side and not my son's.
I was seriously stronger when the next school showed they couldn't handle him. I should feel now, like some bad things happen for a good reason.

[milivica]

Wow I do actually remember that!

When you speak the volume of words I do, that's pretty amazing, pat on my own back, hee hee.

Kids need a framework they can succeed within and joyful memories to generalize or relate to what they're doing especially new experiences, they need resilience so they will be willing to try try again when success does not come immediately, they need to feel competent so they will want to try try again, they need the tools to self regulate be the tools internal (nt's) or external like a sensory item to twist or chew, kids need to reference, get information from referencing, they need to be able to pace, to borrow the perspective of their peers and teachers, to have a internal understood teacher/student or master/apprentice way of thinking to be able to comply functionally not cause they know they'll get locked in the closet if they don't, etc etc etc.... hello, you are teaching kids, you need to know what they need to succeed. I bet Peglem and Lisa6 does. I mean this isn't rocket science - though that seems to be much more easily understood. Now with asd kids, they need the same things, but you have to know how to manually give them that - once they get the same foundation nt kids have (the stuff I have above) everything else will come as naturally to them as nt kids. The compliance, the eagerness to devour a new topic of interest, the willingness to grumble but do the topics not of so much interest.

Ya know, of all the things I've ever done in my life, what gives me guilt is when I think the times I treated Vince like a crappy aid would, and the YEARS I agreed to school putting him in that damn closet cause 'he' was so violent - I identified with the position the adult was in - feeling so incompetent to 'deal with' Vince myself.

Though I'm not sure I'll ever forgive myself, probably cause I don't feel I deserve it, those feelings are part of what fuels me now to do all the good and positive things I did not in the past. I was so lost and overwhelmed, at all times then. RDI says people on the spectrum feel incompetent, and I agree. What RDI doesn't say and should is that feeling of incompetence is shared by the mother as well. It's crushing.

I know, if you or I knew better at the time, we'd have done better by our kids. Now we know better, than to say "oh poor school staff". Understanding school staff and hearing them and treating them with respect is all good and fine cause many deserve it, but 'siding' with them cause as adults we can imagine how hard it would be to be with our child or other's children at school...no. By virtue that your child is at school, they are agreeing that they can and are providing FAPE, yes? And ya know what, the staff we sided with, the special education staff with the extra letters after their names, that claimed to be autism specialists should have told us, educated us, but they didn't cause they did not have the expertise - though I DID have one, that used to tell me often, that 'we' are not finding what works for Vince and that's why he is not succeeding. Brilliant woman. I still email her, she's at a different school now. Her younger brother is in residential, she grew up in a special needs home so to speak, and saw the effects this had on her mother. She tended to identify with both the children, and the mother, she's one of a kind.

So, the bad mothering I did in the past, that I cannot erase. You neither. But we CAN use that regret and guilt to add nitro to the fuel we already have, to do positive and right for our kids. Ya know? And who knows, maybe MLK will give me a way to forgive myself, would be nice. If that happens you'll want to know the name of that book after all aye? Seriously, I know you think I'm MLK bonkers, but his words bring me an inner clarity, peace, and when I have clarity and peace it's sure a lot easier to find my own way, my own direction.

I sure would have loved a 'hindsight' pill or shot, the moment my kids were born.

[tgrimes]

I don't know, if I can lose the guilt I will be better off... I remember all of gatlin's 'treatments' were really not so much necessary for him, just something I HAD to do, to be constantly relieveing myself of the guilt of 'giving' him autism.

[milivica]

Well, I'm pretty darn sure Vince is autistic on account of me, my being on the spectrum...or all the tuna I ate, etc....

I will say overall, I've never felt guilty for giving him autism (other than a rare bout or two of the guilts) cause I know good and well I never did anything knowingly to harm him when inside me, or as a baby, or toddler. I never though "this could make him autistic but so what". So that guilt I don't have.

As far as the reason you did the 'treatments', well I think you're not telling yourself the whole truth, no way would you do something to your kid just to relieve your guilt, you'd do something hoping and praying it would help him, with his life and happiness at the center and your primary concern. If it helped relieve guilt too that would be secondary.

Were he happy and joyful with a future full of his dreams ahead of him, would you have done the 'treatments'? See?

[peglem]

Here's how you get rid of the guilt- Its your husband's fault!

[tgrimes]

As far as the reason you did the 'treatments', well I think you're not telling yourself the whole truth, no way would you do something to your kid just to relieve your guilt, you'd do something hoping and praying it would help him, with his life and happiness at the center and your primary concern. If it helped relieve guilt too that would be secondary.

Were he happy and joyful with a future full of his dreams ahead of him, would you have done the 'treatments'? See?

Yes, I think I do things for all the kids that are motivated by guilt all the time. It's usually stuff they don't need, when I look back on it.

[tgrimes]

Here's how you get rid of the guilt- Its your husband's fault!

Ha ha ha! That's an idea....