Jena 6....is it just me?

[milivica]

Is it just me, or do you all feel with the intensity I do, how every day in every way in the school system (for starters), practices Jim Crow for autistic students constantly, that for most of our children's civil rights are violated, it is accepted, it is encouraged - teachers are taught and encouraged to discriminate and isolate and treat our children with indifference, with inhumanity, as though they were UNpersons (silentmiaow), actually worse than with indifference, with a feeling of validation that they are doing what is RIGHT that they are HELPING....wtf?...(for example, by putting them in the closet to 'help' extinguish behaviors).

I know there are plenty of worthy causes, but honestly I'm sick to death of our civil rights leaders (and sorry but with Jessy Jackson especially I use that term 'leader' more like 'instigator') only taking high profile causes, creating more animosity, grrrr.... Civil Rights means just that, it has no color, it has no gender, no neurology...CIVIL rights. So 1 in 150 isn't high profile enough.

Really it's infuriating, like what I gotta teach my kid to beat other kids with his shoes and run illegal dog fights, so wow, he could get support and marches and attention on HIS civil rights. Our kids DIE from lack of civil rights, suffer daily, needlessly, in school, in health care, where are their civil rights observed? Where the fruck is the 'march' with banners and posters for the civil rights of our children by these civil rights leaders?

What am I missing here, please tell me, "Mili, you're a dingbat, you are missing........"

I mean so much more, than what I said. I'm just scratching the surface.

[peglem]

Guess I'm clueless here. I know what you're talking about as far as rights for our kids. But, the J. Jackson stuff and Jena6- huh? Dog fights and beating w/ shoes? Is this something in the news? I really haven't seen news in awhile...Could you fill me in?

[moose53]

((((((Milli)))))),

First of all you are NOT nuts.

This country (this world) is running a whole entire "war on terror" and yet I see/read about kids in Boston getting shot every week. That's terror too. The worst kind :(

What you're 'complaining' about, Milli -- it's that way for everybody that doesn't "fit in".

I've been reading a book about autism -- can't remember the name of it. It's under something :p somewhere around here. The Dad is an anthropologist and the grandfather was in the very beginnings of discovering about autism.

Their little girl is brilliant -- when she's in the right environment -- which is NOT school. Museums, traveling -- she's brilliant.

The Dad's been fighting the school systems -- same as you, Milli.

Sharpton and Jackson do some good. They speak for a lot of important causes. But, they usually don't speak in private. If it's not loud and visible,it doesn't get talked about.

I hate to think what it would be like if they weren't speaking up at all. But, it could be better.

The only way that parents of special ed kids are going to change 'things' is to be aggressive and forceful (without ending up in jail :rolleyes: ). Special ed was bad 20+ years ago when my son was in school. It hasn't really changed that much. Special ed kids take a lot of work and a lot of time -- neither of which the schools have. Once in awhile, you'll run into someone that will spend the time and the energy. But, not like a parent.

The education system in this country is abysmal. You become a robot. Prove on a test that you learned what "they wanted you to learn". Never mind, proving that you've learned HOW to learn and proved that you're HUNGRY to learn.

Personally, myself, I've learned more in the past 10 years about history -- just by doing my family genealogy and by reading historical romance novels :p

That speaks volumes about our schools. I never even learned about the Holocaust until I was 21 years old.

Abysmal.

Don't doubt your sanity, Milli. Take breaks when you need to, but, you're in this for the L-O-N-G haul :D Just my humble opinion.

BIG HUGS (and love).

Barb

[tgrimes]

?? yes, al sharpton is an idiot.

[milivica]

OMG - Sharpton, from what little I have listened to him speak...I know enough to have died of laughter when Wanda Sykes (awesome comedian) totally gave it to him. They were on some talk show, there were 4 people, Sharpton and Sykes were two of them, I forget what they were discussing - Imus I think. Well, when it was Wanda Sykes turn to speak (she's a black say it like it is type comedian) she says out of the blue to Sharpton, something like, "Well you gotta understand, I see you up on the tv and I'm thinking Oh Lord, please don't say nothing crazy this time that's gonna embarrass all the black folks" and omg, Sharpton just stared at her, didn't say a word or even blink for I have no idea how long. Cripe, I looked on YouTube, too bad no video of it...I could never describe it, as hysterical as it was. Dh and I, we were rolling.

[tgrimes]

Oh, that's too funny, I wish I had seen that. I see him on cnn a lot, and every time I think, if I was black, I would be cringing every time he presented himself as a race advocate.

[tgrimes]

I love the Jim crow autism parallel... but the jena 6 thing, just no correlation. That definitely is a race thing, and shouldn't be equated with the other argument. If I didn't knwo better, I'd think you were keyword spamming.
Anyway, the segtretion issue, yes, definitely, yes, BUT parents do have a role in this when they allow their children in a segregated classroom. If you don't vehemently refuse it, then you are talking the talk but not walking the walk.

[milivica]

I didn't mean that - actually I refrained from any opinion about Jenna 6, cause that wasn't what was causing my sense of frustration.

Weather Jenna 6 or any other civil rights issue, weather racially related or not, these civil rights 'leaders' aren't doing squat and never have that I'm aware of, for the civil rights of 1 in 150 autistic children, or the multitudes of elderly in bad nursing homes, or ANY of the people weather children or adult, weather autistic or not, that are unable to speak for their own civil rights, rights which are being stomped on daily. Where were these guys when autistic kids were killed on buses coming home from school or at school itself, when they suffocated from restraint - actually I don't even recall any hoopla or signs or marching, when that young black boy with autism was killed by that so called church minister or pastor, during his 'exorcism'.

No doubt the Jenna 6 thing is about racial inequality, civil rights, so on. No doubt, a good cause, but WHO stands for our kids - who with any pull or leverage or weight I mean.

See what I mean now? Weather the Jenna 6 or ANYTHING these civil rights leaders advocate for, I'm like, how come I about drove myself nuts all last year, never got so much as an email back from NAACP or anywhere - were my son black and NOT autistic in a predominately white school, and locked in a closet and treated as he has been, I'd have no shortage of support from these guys. I would call that Jim Crow civil rights, for autistics (in other words, NONE, no civil rights). Civil rights isn't about showing how rotten whites are to blacks, how prejudice, etc... but that seems to be their only focus.

Hope that makes more sense. Not about how valid, right or wrong Jenna 6 is or isn't - actually think that one is darn obvious.

Now young lady, you better stop misinterpreting me....even when I say the wrong words, listen to what I mean and not to what I say for Pete sakes, makes it so much easier for me.
:p
(being sarcastic!)
:D

Plus, I'm 'over it' so to speak, was just venting this morning. I get it that this is the way the world is. Sometimes I randomly feel frustrated at what is so obviously unfair, unright (if that were a word).

[milivica]

Oh I forgot why I came back...I searched and searched, couldn't find anything about Sykes statement to Sharpton other than on one site:

I think the “so-called” black leaders a la Al Sharpton are just creating more conflicts that resolving issues.

Funnily, comedienne Wanda Sykes said that everytime she sees Sharpton on TV, she worries (paraphrasing what she said on a talk show) “oh my God, what is he gonna say this time, Please don’t embarrass us”

I was laughing out loud because I say the same thing whenever I see them on TV.

So, that's a quote from someone similar to what I said, but nothing could possibly explain the look on Sharpton's face. Gawd it was priceless.

[tgrimes]

I remember a few years back in our district a little girl in kdg or even pre-k maybe, had a tantrum, not even a big one, and then refused to get down off a table, the teachers kept asking and she ignored them, but then somehow, the situation escalated to them calling the cops and they actually handcuffed her and put her in the patrol car, not sure if they drove her to a 'jail' before the parent came. Anyway, this girl was black and you would think the NAACP would have jumped on something like that too, like at least use some money to pay for legal counsel against school or especially the police department, who should have been penalized for involving themselves in a preschooler's tantrum.
I don't know the out come of that, but that poor mom, the school called her and because she didn't come to get her 'unruly child' fast enough because she was working, they just figured oh, well, call the cops.
Now, can you imagine if a parent called law enforcement every time their kid ignored a request, and the police happily intervened by hancuffing the kid to cart them off?

[milivica]

That wasn't too long ago, and yes, that's the type of thing I mean too - and actually I'm surprised the JackSharp duo didn't get involved in that. I'm traumatized enough from being taken from school in cuffs...I can't imagine how this child felt then, or for the rest of her life as she recalls it. The mom as well.

[tgrimes]

My niece was cuffed at school and jailed for some belt buckle that my sister bought her on ebay.. because it looked like a fake brass knuckles. My sis was so horrified because she had given it to her for Christmas, not thinking that would be against code at the high school.
Now this is starting to fire me up. Here, another instance of law enforcement getting involved in school conduct. I can see if they are breaking real laws at school, then they are doing something 'unlawful'. If they are doing or wering something that would not be considered 'unlawful' across the stret, for instance, then law enforcement needs to stay out.

[tgrimes]

You know, there is something we can work on that we both feel passionate about and that is the school closet.
If you would be willing to help work on a 'closet standards', if they can't completely eliminate them, I will work on sending it to as many congressmen as I can.
I remember back when someone was giving a tour of the new school gatlin was going to several years ago, and they showed me this plexiglass closet that looked more like a terrarium than something you would put a kid in.
The teacher said, 'This is where they go for control issues or when they need some time out...'
At first I thought she was joking, and I was laughing, albeit uncomfortably, at her rather inappropriate joke, but then when she got quiet. I realized this was not just some storage space under construction.
So I said "I hope that Gatlin doesn't see this room, or there's going to be a problem" and left it at that.
I later told him if someone put him in there, he needed to tell me as soon as he got home. He never did, so I assumed he never visited it.
Three years later, when I was telling dh about a friends child repeatedly put in a closet throughout her entire high school years, Gatlin shared he was put in the closet at the other school.
Best I can gather, he did not want to tell because he would be in trouble over the thing that got him in the closet. I wish I had known then, though. Never got any communication from that school over any incident.

So, that's my reasons, if you mili, or anyone is interested in working on this, let me know.

[Isabelle]

Is it just me, or do you all feel with the intensity I do, how every day in every way in the school system (for starters), practices Jim Crow for autistic students constantly, that for most of our children's civil rights are violated, teachers are taught and encouraged to discriminate and isolate and treat our children with indifference, with inhumanity, as though they were UNpersons (silentmiaow), .

I know there are plenty of worthy causes, but honestly I'm sick to death of our civil rights leaders CIVIL rights. So 1 in 150 isn't high profile enough.

Really it's infuriating

I mean so much more, than what I said. I'm just scratching the surface.

an activist is being born, right in front of our eyes....go mili !!!! very seriously.

[milivica]

The problem for me is, I feel like I'm a forum activist and an 'in my own living room' activist. Ya know? Complaining about change, feeling passionate about it, doesn't get it done. I soooooo totally need a leader - much like I do with my son, I need an Activist Consultant!

Grimey, that is a great idea....let me start a thread though, there's no way I can fairly think of all the angles - my child is physically healthy and strong, verbal, etc.... I might say one thing for him, that would be totally unfair for another. Let me start tomorrow, I'll give some ideas, others can add to it. How can we present anything to anyone, if we cannot agree here, in an environment where we actually like and respect one another, right?

The only idea I have at the moment, is a room like that should never be routine, in a BIP as 'routine' or considered a solution to behavior - should there ever become a circumstance it is used, the parent needs to be notified, the entire incident recorded - need to see cause some kids can't SAY. Ya know? That's just vague, for starters. Ahhhhhh - lots of PAPERWORK needs to be filled out every time, see what I'm saying? All of it or most of it, related to all the things the staff did, and why, prior to such an aggressive suppressive action. Also, consider some parents really do not know what else can be done, they are parents, they don't claim to know - staff working with a child claiming to understand how to give your child an appropriate education, need to know how to do that.

Ok, really want everyone's ideas - especially those that are or were teachers. Well everyones really. Aids too, definitely anyone that actually experienced this in school.

[AKF]

The Jena 6 thing is about some people playing the race card, and trying to get national attention when it isn't like it's being portrayed. This is only about 45 miles from where I live, and we play Jena in sports and stuff. I know lots of people from there.

This was not just one school fight, like the media portrays. It was an ongoing situation of these kids (the Jena 6 group) bullying and harassing kids, and the fight was just the culmination. Every one of them has a prior record of violent crime, from attempted rape to assault and battery to robbery. That gets very little attention in the media.

I agree that the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons in this country need to speak up for the disabled kids that are being denied their rights every day! These kids need a voice and somebody to stand up for them.

[milivica]

Wow. See this is why I never really feel I'm getting the story, from the media. Thanks for the info.

[camey]

I guess where I am from all kids are treated in the schools the same the ones that need a little more attention are shown attention with respect not that they are different and people want to point that out----I guess it is all in the up bringing---- treat people as you want to be treated.... I have a soft spot for the autistic and other handicapped children and adults as I have in the past worked with them.....

[milivica]

I guess where I am from all kids are treated in the schools the same the ones that need a little more attention are shown attention with respect not that they are different and people want to point that out----I guess it is all in the up bringing---- treat people as you want to be treated.... I have a soft spot for the autistic and other handicapped children and adults as I have in the past worked with them.....

If that is true, I'll pack up and move there. I swear it. Where in the world are you from that equal rights exists, for kids on the spectrum, in the school system? I'm gobsmacked, I really did not think it existed.

[milivica]

The Jena 6 thing is about some people playing the race card, and trying to get national attention when it isn't like it's being portrayed. This is only about 45 miles from where I live, and we play Jena in sports and stuff. I know lots of people from there.

This was not just one school fight, like the media portrays. It was an ongoing situation of these kids (the Jena 6 group) bullying and harassing kids, and the fight was just the culmination. Every one of them has a prior record of violent crime, from attempted rape to assault and battery to robbery. That gets very little attention in the media.

I agree that the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons in this country need to speak up for the disabled kids that are being denied their rights every day! These kids need a voice and somebody to stand up for them.

I was soooooo proud of dh. He was unaware of the Jena thing - me too overall, I'm not very familiar with it. Anyhow, everything I posted and also what you posted about standing up for our kids - to be a voice for anyone that cannot speak for themselves, dh was saying.

I do have a question even though I wasn't interested initially in this story, I am on a few counts now.

The whites only tree...what's the deal with that?

The rope hanging from the tree...what's the deal with that - I thought that was dispicable. Would be like making the Twin Towers with planes sticking out of them go ablaze for your science project. No way who ever did that, is not aware of the deeper meanings, representations....too bad someone wasn't creative enough to difuse or weaken the message that gave once seen, to make a joke out of something intended to be dispicable to say to the perpetrator "we don't take you seriously, you're weak" like hanging a pinata or something from it, with candy scattered under - if it was only 1 person I mean, not a group - well this is coming out wrong. Really I don't know how that could be handled, but I'd have liked to know something was done to remove the 'power' that display had, from the person who did it.

The white guy that got beat with shoes...sounds to me, using a shoe, is more of an attempt at humiliation than murder...I'm having trouble picturing 6 grown boys getting together, and deciding to each remove a shoe, and beat someone up...so I'm not getting that really. Though I could see, he was beaten up.

Is the beaten up white guy, the one who hung the rope?

One of the mom's was interviewed, they asked her if she had anything to say to the kid that was beaten, and omg every way in the world she minimized it, never said it was bad or wrong or anything in the way of condolences. In fact, she said she could see he got in a fight...getting in a fight is not the same as being attacked and beaten. I thought her whole demeanor stunk most of anyone interviewed. Made me think her kid was guilty of more than she said, what mother wouldn't express condolences for another kid that was beaten - then go on to explain her child's innocence, ya know?

So, I'm very curious now, and I really can't rely on what the media portrays. Yet, I also can't believe SOME of each side, is true - just can't understand how much. For instance, we have one 'bad' area around here, I don't live in it, so if a problem broke out there, I would not get on camera and say, "well gee, we all get along, we don't have black/white issues" etc... Cause those issues are not just mental, they can be geographical - just cause I don't experience black/white issues don't mean two miles from me, it's not present. So, I was suspicious of a few of the interviewed ladies. Racial tension exists everywhere to one degree or another - as does gender tension, sexual preference tension, the amount of respect given to folks different than you are, that's the thing.

Ok, so tell me AKF since you live around there...what's up with the tree, the rope, the beaten kid was beaten why? Also the news said none of the 6 have records.

Last, I absolutely was 1,000% behind what I heard MLK III say, the march is about justice for everyone including the victim. That's FINE, that's civil rights. Honestly I have no clue with MLK's kids do, I don't know a thing about them. I didn't even realize it was his son, until dh pointed it out from the name thingy on the tv.

[Isabelle]

the attitude is "blame the (victim) autistic", there no fault in the teachers or staff who are uncaring caregivers...get off your living room and out to organize a group of parents to advocate....
hmm, thinking about it, that's how it all started and then the parents' group were conquered (gifts and promises of good care for their children) and divided (as "promises/gifts" were given to some parents, they turned their backs to other parents) and so the soul and spirit of the group was sold for...ok,mostly money :( :mad: that's history and will be repeated.