Daughter w' alcoholism

[Cry Tears]

Hi all...Gosh...I pray she NEVER see's this site...I'm leary of writting my saga here for eyes to see...
but I'm needing help from those who've been down this path.
We adopted a 10 year old girll from a mexican orphanage back in 1981 (?).
I'll not use her real name...so I'll call her "Cindy".
~~~
She'd been abandoned by her entire family...left alone to rot in that horrid place.
Her real mother died of Luekemia when she was only 3...her father died right in front of her when she was 8, from drug/alcohol overdose.
She was very traumatized by this...she has a younger sister and brother.
They were passed from family to family...never staying in one place longer than few months.
Finally adopted by an American couple...were picked up by Social Services in school one day,
was in 2nd grade...was told the adovpitve family had been killed in auto accident and they all needed to be sent back to Mexico.
So once again...life handed her a rotten deal.
~~~
They were living with her maternal g'mother and Cindy burned their house down to the ground.
That was the last straw so they packed her and her one brother up, put them into the orphanage.
Her brother ran away next day, went right back to g'mas house...But she was only 9 years old...
the orphanage was 3 miles from her g'mas house and very far from town. Her family never wnt to see her, ever!
They totally abaondoned her...she never saw her brother or younger sister ever again.
She was abused , raped and beatin while in the orphanage.
~~~
My husband and I spent 2 years trying to get her out of there as we knew the children were all being abused.
We spent nearly every Saturday at the orphanage and became like family to the many children there...usually about 30 kids.
Cindy was forced to play "Mother" to the youngest children, 2 babies in cribs and about 10 toddlers.
She also washed piles of dishes and helped cood.
Cindy is/was a very hard worker who was very grown up for her age.
The moment I laid eyes on her, my heart borke and we changed our mind about wanting to adopt a baby.
We asked to adopt her that very day...but sadly the orphanage operator only wanted the money
we'd spend as she strung us along for 2 very long years.
We ended up having to kidnap Cindy out of there when Mrs Prado was off premises. We knew we'd be arrested,
but we saw no other way of getting her out. We did have her grandmothers permission as
she gave us temporary custody and we removed Cindy from that H3LL hole.
Days after we'd gotten Cindy into the US we alerted authorities of what had been taking place in that orphanage...
was nothing more than a front for Pediphiles/molesters...All in the name of "God".
children were systmactically molested, raped, beaten...even a few children killed and buried on the grounds there.
We upset the entire community with this story...as the operator was "Woman of the Year" and the town "idol".
They investigated and all 30 children told the same story of being molested, beaten, raped....
more horror stories than you could imagine.
~~~
Everyone connected with that orphanage were arrested, imprisoned and all have died since being incarcerated.
We moved away from San Diego to Oregon one yaer after Cindys adoption and US mimmigration....a very long drawn out and costly ordeal.
Cindy always worried she'd end up getting sent back to Mexico...but I NEVER ever made any such threats...
she just never felt "comfortable"...and rightly so as everyone failed her.
She shunned my affection...and insisted on speaking spanish to my husband.
She veiwed me as her rival...to her a woman only meant an abusive authority.
I tried everything I could to earn her love...but she always "pushed" me away.
I was disappointed at myself...for not feeling the same love I'd experienced with my natural born son...
I berated myself for not having these feelings.
We moved into our home here in Oregon Christmas Eve 1984.
The very next summer my 36 year old husband had deadly mouth cancer.
Was given only 10% chance to live...had a very traumatic surgery and radiation treatment.
Cindy began running away right when he came home from the hospital.
His mouth was wired shut as they'd removed half his tongue and part of his floor of mouth.
It was horrible! Down right traumatic for entire family.
My inlaws detested me for bringing these girls into our familhy...
Oh..we'd also gotten another child from there as well...she was 5 yo then....
Cindy used to care for her while in that orphanage.
So here I was...my husband very ill, my son 12 yo, Cindy now 11, and 5 yo Alice.
My inlaws tried paying me big sum of $ if I'd leave thier son alone.
That I was the cause of his cancer because I'd forced him to adopt those hideous mexicans!
They're white, blue eyes and somewhat wealthy.
I refused their offer...my husband was too ill to fight with them...but wanted to stay with me...we'd been married 13+ years.
Cindy felt this all her fault...the turmoil in our family...my husbands illness scared her and she ran away...began drinking.
I'd put Morphine down Larrys nasal tube, put him to bed, then search the streets for Cindy...
worried sick she'd been killed...she was gone nearly a week, then I found her 4 am one morning.
I was working full time, we had all 3 children in Christian school, money was tight.
My husband, Larry, works for Motorola 12+ years then and they continued paying him even tho was off half year for cancer treatments.
We tried convincing Cindy, this was NOT her fault...never mind what those evil inlaws said to her...
AND we were committed to keep her and would never send her back...but she never felt "safe"...and continued running away and drinking.
~~~
Any time she drank, she's go into a coma.
Shes been hospitlailzed too many tmies...lost count.
We've put her in In house hospital treatments...AA meetings 6 nites week.
We tried every program we could...not covered by insurance...but we cashed in more Motorola Stock to pay for this.
We only allowed our kids to drive after their 17th and half BD.
We purchased a nicer car for Cindy....to drive to college as she'd graduated hi school.
The second day she drove....she was DUI!...I took her blood, was a 2.5 blood acohol...
and this was 4 hours after finding her dead drunk alseep in her car. I took her in to DMV,
handed them her drivers lic, told them I'd caught her DUI.
When she turned 18 she moved in with her boyfreinds parants home.
They felt we were too strict in having her go to AA meetings and we had mislabled her as ALcoholic by putting her in treatment.
She became totally out of control....even went as far as doing nude dancing for several years.
Many DUI's....arrested many times...lost her Driver Lic AGAIN...this time for years...
she lost contact with us for several years, but we'd heard from her former freinds the saga life she'd been living...always drunk.
She'd been banned from many bars and dance places because of her drinking, passing out all the time.
Several times she'd been hospitlaized in coma...blood alco 4.0 and higher.
One doctor told me she may not make it thru the nite she was that drunk.
We NEVER played the "Christian Values card" with her...but part of our religeous convictions do not include drinking or smoking.
We never tried shaming or blaming her....we just wanted to see her live a life without drinking and always being drunk.
She married a man who felt her drinking was "OK"...but now is a serious problem with them.
After she married she moved away and once again lost touch with us till 6 months ago...
she called us, told us she's wanting to repair our relationship and wanted us to meet her 3 children.
She came up to visit us last month and we had a wonderful 3 hour talk,
meeting the children and catching up on the 5 years we'd been apart.
~~~
Now...here's my problem.
She tells me she's in AA, seeing a councelor and wanting to make ammends, part of 12 steps in doing this.
She's told us how sorry she was for putting us thru so much, that we were doing our best....
WE NEVER told her how much $ we'd spent on her, adopting her, immigrations,
getting her citenzenship and putting her thru Christian school...it cost us soooo much...
and for years I've been regretful for spending so much...for what?
a girl who did nothing but cause us pain and suffering during our own tradgedies?!
Continuing on next post....

[Cry Tears]

Half my husbands retirement was spent on just her alone! We're now poor, when we had a lot of $ in Motorola stocks...
I'm bitter, disappointed and feel very used and down right foolish for throwing so much away on her,
for what we've gotten in return is nothing but heartache.
It made our family a terribly disfunctional home.
We once had a very quiet home...a beautiful new home, nice motorhome too and did lots of traveling.
After we got the girls...we spent the money and energies on them and their constant acting out.
These girls were damaged goods, big time...we had no idea what we were doing in adopting 2 orphanes from Mexico!
My onw sone turned against me now...said his life was ruined all by me...for bringing those horrid girls into our once perfect home.
He said he will NEVER forgive me for "f'ing up his life...he tells me he hates me, wishes I were dead!
~~~
Cindy has been calling me...talks for hours...sometimes 3 hours long.
I can hear her children crying and whining in the back ground...AND she sounds drunk!
Some of her conversation has been downright inappropriate and tacky, somewhat sexual in nature.
Because I'm a victim of sexual abuse....I "freeze"...like a scared deer in headlights..
I don't know what to do, say when ever anyone is inappropriate with me...
I am definatly no prude either...but is clear that Cindy has been drinking when she's so "loose" with her talk.
I'm afraid to confront her with her drinking...that I know she's been drinking when she calls me...
she claims she's staying sober...but got very defensive when I asked her if she has a sponser.
Because her first language was not English,...she does have a very strong accednt...
so sometimes is hard to distinguish if she has been drinking.
I really want to help her...but I know...this is wrong thinking as well.
I'd love to have a daughter, and be able to have grandchildren and a normal family life like I'd so dreamt of years ago.
My son is very bitter and angry about us adopting the girls...he has no contact with either of them...
and veiws them as only wanting an inheritance.
The girls ahve asked for money when they married...and we were foolish in our giving....
we're not wealthy...but we were once very comfortable, but not any more...we spent it all on them!
I don't know what to do...Cindy calls me sometimes 5 times in one day!:eek:
I'm not well...I've had a very hard time with my health the last 10 years.
But I made a promise to God...long ago...if he would bless me with children, t
hat I'd do my best...but sadly...I failed...I became abusive to the girls, slapping them when they lied, stole...
always acting out...I was constantly upset...they were always acting out...
while my son stood by shaking his head at the huge mess our family was in...My in laws....well...they were right.
The girls would only bring us pain and suffering....and our once happy home became nothing more than a terribly disfunctional mess...
with Cindy alwys drinking, running away...
and the other one became a pathelogical liar who'll do ANYTHING and say ANYTHING for attention...OMG!
She's just as bad and now she too is drinking herself silly...while claiiming her child is dealthy ill,
but we clearly see she's making this up, for attention...she thrives on the attention she gets having an ill child...
but no one has ever withnessed the seziures she claims he has...allergies, phobias...
all imagined by this girl, she claims is wrong with her son...She has Munchausen by Proxy...for sure!'
What a sad mess this is....and I just don't know what to do.
I want a good relationship with Cindy...but not the way its going now.
What should I do now?
I can't confront her...tell/ask her if she's drunk....OMG!:eek:
What was I thinking....I felt sorry for this child...and now...I feel sorry for me!
My husband lived...and he's had another serious bout with mouth cancer 10 years ago...
but he's OK...and working towards retirement...but our moneys' all gone...spent on a drunk who could care less about us!
But now is sorry for all she'd done...but is a little late..but then again, I don't know...I'm very confused.
Everyone in her life has failed her...I promised God that I wouldn't...and now I'm wanting to run away...****n, like she did.
Why did I ever go down to Mexico!
My husband wrote a book...is still in manuscript form...great awesome book.
Theres lots more to that orphanage ordeal that I've written. Was huge news story back in 83.....
Thanks for reading this very long thread.
Blessings, cheryl
PS....PM me if you'd like a copy of the manuscript...."The Orphanage".

[houghchrst]

Oh god crytears. I can't imagine. You must be anguished. I am a recovering addict and the only advice I can give you is to let them go. For your sake and the sake of your family, and I am not talking about your snooty inlaws, I mean you and your husband. Let them go. There is nothing you can do for them except pray for them to find a way out of their own mess. I would call protective services and see that something is done about your grandchildren. It must be hard to think of them that way but if you still care for the girls then their children are your grandchildren. You may be the only one who can save them before they get too old and turn out like their mother. I am not saying take custody but get them out of their situation. I am so sorry that you are going through this. You had such good intentions and opened your heart and life but had no idea that things could turn out like this. I know you have heard of tough love and it is time to practice it. It will be hard, there will be a lot of tears, for what has happened and for what is lost. I really believe that you can only save yourself, sounds harsh I know but that is the way it is. I wish you the best.

[Cry Tears]

[Hi...thanks for your input.
I'm not really sure Cindy IS drunk at times when she calls...and her husband is a prison gaurd...he's pretty much "together"....so I doubt the children are in danger...except when she has talked for so long, the kids get cranky, whiney wanting mama's attention.
I've only seen the grandkids recently...met the 2 girls first time ever and the 6 YO boy...last time I saw him he was 1.
Cindy is wanting to make repairs to our relationship...so I must at least try.
But then I wonder if she's drunk because of her "loose" talk about very sensitve things to me AND her slurred speach...but I'm not 100% sure.
I'm not wanting to finger point and upset her where she clams up and will be another 5 years before we hear from her again.
Whats really been heartbreaking on top of all this...is my sons horrid reaction to them and ugly jealousy.
When he was 13 a church memember molested/raped him...he kept this silent for 8 years...said he didn't want to tell about it, then have it on the news like the orphanage ordeal.
He is downright livid and angry with me...when he speaks to me, its with much disguist and hatred....then' he'll withhold my grand daughter from me. He uses her as a pawn.
I'm feeling very bitter about this entire ordeal....we were good Samaratins, who got very injured while helping them.
I wish to God I could go back and do things differently.
There'd be two less US citizens here, and 2 very unhappy females living in Mexico!
My advice to anyone considering adopting older kids....FORGET IT!
Unless you want to have your savings drained and heart stomped on!
I'm very bitter and angry...does it show? Ha!
Thanks, crytears

[Buttons2]

About the phone calls, you aren't 100% positive she is drunk. Well let's face some facts here OK?

1) she calls 5 times in one day,trust me she is drinking!
2) she talks for 3 hrs while her kids are being ignored,trust me she's drinking!
3) she won't dicuss her AA sponsor,trust me she doesn't have one cause she's not following the AA rules,she's drinking!

I go through with with my sister all the time (or at least I used to,now we're not speaking). sometimes it would take me awhile to "get smart" about whether she was drinking or not, I'd hear the clink of ice cubes over the phone,she'd claim she was drinking Coke. Then she'd say something that finally clued me in......did I feel stupid? Yes!

I used to think if I was on the phone with my sister early in the day that she would be sober.....took me a long time to figure out she begins her day with a drink!

One big tip off: they keep saying the same stuff over & over. The pity me party. Everything in their life has been the fault of someone else. Nobody ever loved them. They need "just to hear your voice". Well, trust me on this, what they need is an enabler! And she's found one with you & Larry!

If you think back to how rotten the past has been-double that up for the future if you continue to communicate with her!

You & Larry did more than your fair share. In fact you did everything you possibly could for her & her sister,at the risk of your own son's happiness.

Let her go,get own with your own life. You cannot help her @ this point.

You mention her husband is a prison guard,does this mean he's not clueless? No,it sure doesn't! Sometimes the people closest to the drunk will be in denial forever. Various reasons for this. Sense of failure is one.

The family members that displaced the blame are just plain ignorant! I see this in my own family all the time. Everyone is in the wrong except my sister!

Drunks will lie through their teeth. I cannot stress this enough! By this time Cindy has poisoned her brain with the alcohol. She's literally lost brain cells that will never come back. She's just playing you along for a sucker!

I realize this is not something you can handle right now, you want to see the happy ending,you still have hope for the future. Cindy is burning her bridges,people in her life are backing off,so then she connects with you,uses the kids to "get to you". She has no shame.

You have to reach these conclusions on your own. Nobody can do it for you. And I'm just NOW seeing how toxic my sister is to my life. She finally did something I cannot accept. This is hard for me,but I cannot keep on "being there for her" when she lies through her teeth about me!

Alcoholics will suck the life out of everyone they encounter. they will use whatever methods they must to get what they feel they deserve. they are NOT capable of honesty or guilt as long as they are still drinking.

Now you say she contacted you to apologize,well that's a good thing. And one of the must-do's in AA. But in this case she's lying. She's not one bit sorry or she would not be dragging you & Larry into her current situation. Which I might add would not be so bad if she'd get sober & remain sober!

You have 2 choices,let her back into your life & accept the destruction she will cause,or let her go......there is no in between. Trust me on this,if she were sober when on the phone-you would never have to wonder!

I've been fooled too many times myself,there comes a time when you will learn the last lesson.....letting go.

HUGS Buttons

[mama sue]

wow! I am so sorry you are going through this. I have no words of advice other than pray. You took on a responsibility with those children just as you did your son. I will be the odd one out here because I feel that whether it is your biological child or adopted, God doesn't give a guarantee of a bed of roses. I understand the feelings of being used, angry etc.., but they are your children. If the tables were reversed and it was your son who was having such troubles, would you feel the same way?

I'm not trying to make any waves here, please know that. If your children are that destructive, maybe you should break ties with them and pray they can get their life together. There is only so much you and your husband can do.

Again, PLEASE know that my words are not of condemnation, just another point of view. Hang in there and know that are many who will lift you and your family up in prayer.

[Buttons2]

Sue, I don't want you to think I consider adopted children any different than those we give birth to, I just happen to know far too much about the situation from PM's. And I'm hoping some more people will chime in here......we all have to follow our own heart in these matters.

Alcohol destroys lives. Crytears & her husband have more than their share to deal with right now. Everything I know about "Cindy" is a big RED warning! As always,there is alot more to the story,just want crytears to not feel quilty if she decides to shun this gal unless she can get sober!

We have a tendency to want to help an alcoholic,we want to reach out in any way possible,we feel sorry for them-that's what they count on!And nobody wants to let go of a family member,I only have one sister. I may be coming across as cold about all this,that's not my intention,I'm trying to spare crytears alot more grief-but only she can make the decision in the end.

glad you replied here,she knows what you have been through,we all are in awe of your courage & pray for your future.

HUGS,Buttons

[mama sue]

Sweet Buttons~
I was afraid my post would sound "that" way. :( I too understand all to well what it means to protect, cover up, etc for an alcoholic and know how easy it is to get your heart broken. I surely didn't intend to sound........well, anyway............I hope you all know how very important you are to me and how much I appreciate you.

Crytears,
Hang in there dear. I know this can't be easy for you. You have suffered much heartache and I will keep you and your family in my heart and prayers. I really do care and want to be here for support. I hope I didn't sound harsh. {{{HUGS}}}

[Cry Tears]

Hi all...I can take what you say, not feel I'm being "beat up"...hey, what I've been thru in life! Ha!
I'm not looking for just pats on the back and someone to join my pity party.
Don't lie....Tell it like you see this! I'm a grown up girl now.
The reason I posted this sad saga is I NEED help from those who're knowledgable in alcoholism.
So what ever you write...beleive me....I need every word and will consider and use the advice wisely.
We spent months going to AA with Cindy...when she was "IN house" program.
We went to her evening metting every single nite for several weeks...6 nites a week!
Was very hard work, especially while working full time, having big house, family...no outside help...
just opposite...had outside terrorist (My inlaws...OMG...talk about evil mineions of satan!)
They tried paying me off with large sum of $...to leave their son, take my adopted kids and leave ...
that I was direct cause of his mouth cancer! Talk about a stab in the heart...and whats really sad...
I BELIVED them, felt I was such a damaged horrid person!
They were down right cold and distant from MY children...no gramma grampa relationship with my kids...

MY kids were never any part of their family, not considered grandchildren, ever!
And they were terribly prejudice.
MY "ugly" mexican children were not beautiful white people like them.
Larrys very wealthy brothers child, their one and ONLY grandchild!
She's gorgeous tall blonde, is nurse practitioner in Hollywood, works for famous plastic surgeon and
NEVER EVER gave any problems while growing up.
MY kids, were always compared to her...she was/is the perfect daughter in all ways.
One day she'll find a rich doctor to marry her...maybe another perfect guy...Ken and Barbie in real life!
She's holding out for one...she's 30+ YO...hmmmm.
How stupid...I shoulda taken that money, then just gone back!

I do feel terribly guilty about the way I treated Cindy...I really didn't love her. I'm sorry...
but thats the way it is...I just couldn't force myself to love her like I did my own son, flesh and blood.
I feel terribly guilt because I didn't have those huggy, kissy baby love for the girls...
I was terribly disappointed, heartbroken at the fact I could never bare my husbands child...
I had infertility after my teenage pregnancy...I was 17+ when I had my son...all alone.
..everyone shunned me, turned away from my very shamed family...how could I have done this to THEM?
But they'd turned me out of the home right after my 17th BD.
Our home was totally destroyed by a freak flood..nothing left...nada!
I had a paper bag half filled with new clothing...I'd gotten a check from Salvation Army for basics.
My folks moved into a 2 bedroom apt....room for them and my 2 younger sisters...
was "invited" to sleep on the couch till I found someone to take me in as I was no longer welcome at home.
I was NOT a bad girl, was not out of control or disrespectful...my father just hated me...
My mother no longer needed a housekeeper/babysitter, so was done using me...she blamed ME for the flood.
..that I had a satanic poster in my BR...yeah"? was a flower that said "Groovy"...
My fanatically "religeous" mom told me was God punishing the family for my having it...what????
My RN mother to me was gods gospel....

Broken hearted, desperatly lonely, paper bag in hand I wandered the streets till I found someone to take me in.
HE was much older than I...but at least it was SOMEONE to stay with.
That lasted till my first pregnancy test...then on ot home for unwed mothers.
I refused to give my baby away...but my family abandonded and shunned me.
I had no one to turn to...at least my baby would love me!
I'd been molested as a child, then @ 14 was kidnapped drugged and raped by a 45 yo man...
My mother said I deserved it...that I was a w---re anyway.
Yeah mom...you kept taking me to Howards house AFTER I told you he' was always molesting me!...
when I told her...I got slapped on the face.
So I had it about as hard as the girls did in growing up...not as bad as they've had, but still...
I did NOT have a family that loved and cherished me.
But I didn't get into drugs, alcohol or bad relationships.
I marraied a very wonderful guy...he's very educated, works for same co since 1974...so unlike my family.
He accepted my son as his own, but saddest part of our lives was not having a child of our own.
We felt lead by God to the orpahage, where was filled with pediphiles and we did something about it!
All of them died in prison...perhaps they put some curse on us?!? Is scary.
They dabbled in satanism with the children...made threats using dead animals,
made symbols on the walls with blood...terrfying the children.
So is perahps Gods will WE were the ones to adopt the girls from there.
They'd gotten away with all this over 30 years till we stepped in.
I'm wondering if is right to turn my back on them now.
If Cindy is sincere in stopping her drinking...how can I turn away from her?
Perhaps I'll ask her when was her last drink...if she tells me months...
then I'll know she's still drinking, with no intentions of stopping.
She's also in counceling, wants me to go down there so can meet with him and talk about issues and past.
I have no problem doing this, have nothing to hide.

I'm not going to lie and say I was mother of the year...I am sorry I was such a nasty "mother".
But then...I don't want to be beat up, dragged thru manure piles for what I did or didn't do....
she wasn't daughter of the year either! and her drinking caused our home to be terribly disfunctiona.
They're both pretty Dmd lucky we didin't give them one way tickets so the border like EVERYONE urged...
including my Psychologist sister and the several councelors we'd been seeing...but I didn't want to fail the girls.
I thought God, a mom and dad, family togetherness, Christian Edu could fix them...had no idea the came with such bagage!
~~~
Now we're poor...we used half Larrys retirment fund to pay for all that immigration, US citezen-ship, adoption stuff...
I'm talking a LOT of $ was spent!
We were forced to do adoptions in both countrys...Mexican lawyers...what a joke...
Kept getting ripped off...sometimes $10,000 spent just on papers that mysteriously got lost...pay more!
What a sicko joke that was...but we had NO choice.

Most all those Motorola CD's are gone! Was supposed to have a very nice pile of $ in the bank for retirement...ha!
We'll be lucky to afford TV dinners!...and Larry can't retire now as planned...
Will cost us $800 a month JUST for health care insurance. We cannot rely on Madicare.

AND we're having more medical nightmares with him. He has another CA sore under his tongue...
Wednesdays the big day up at Med school....this NEVER ends...
Larry does NOT deserve what he's gotten by marrying me....
A sickly wife, messy house and 3 very damaged children who're hateful towards us.
Been years since he's gotten a BD or fathers day card...this man deserves it if ANY man does...
He made breakfast every single day for the kids, drove them to private school, read to them, bedtime prayers, stories,
we had family worshil every nite too....
And just about every single weekend was spent doing stuff with/for them!....OMG!
We tried our hardest...but that wasn't good enough!
The youngest girl...Deanna...is the worst of all of them...
now she's wrtting on a web page that I molested her whenever I changed her diaper!
She was 4 when she came to us! So thats a lie! I've offered to take polygraph testing!
Everyone called her "Lie-anna" when growing up...she ALWAYS told anything to gain attention.
Cindy has been talking to her...thinks Deanna has gone off the deep end, is always drunk too!
Hey...maybe just have the girls talk to eachother, tell lies and rage about what wicked people we were!
Anyway...thanks for your input...I know this post is sooo lenghty...but there's so much to all this.
Blessings, cheryl
PS...Mamasue...I know you're having your own 'living h3LL" right now, losing your husband and your two boys too!
OMG...how much can one soul take?
I've read your recent postings and threads...it made me cry...I felt very ashamed for crying about self....
I just want to reach out to you as well and give YOU a big hug....God BLESS YOU dear!...
are you still in Oregon...I'm over by Sandy...eagle creek...maybe we can get together...
I've been wanting to meet my long-time BT PM freind too! Maybe, soon!
the pics of me and my granmonkey...and kitty Bitty=boo!
I'm totally in love with my granmonkey...but son doesn't let me see her sometimes...
his way of hurting me...his pawn!

[mama sue]

Crytears~
Bless your heart for all that you are going through. My heart hurts for you and I can't imagine the pain you have experienced. Yes, i am in Oregon. Coos Bay. Do you know where that is? I have no idea where Sandy is :)

I hope that you know I will always be here to listen. You are a very strong woman and I bellieve that no matter what decision you must make regarding your kids, will be the right one for you. Follow your heart friend and pray much. Many {{{HUGS}}}

[Buttons2]

Suggestion: continue to talk with Cindy on the phone but keep it short! Cut her off when she begins to drag up the past. Set a timer if you must,in fact you can use the timer as an excuse to get off the phone. These long dragging phone conversations will get you nowhere.

Sorry but I see no benefit to asking her how long since her last drink,why? cause then she's forced to lie. And I want to point out that she doesn't WANT her life to be this way,but YOU are not the way out of her dilemna.

Just keep in mind you have NO control over this situation. The alcohol has control right now.

I didn't realize you've been to AA meetings. Do you still have an AA book? If so maybe you need to read it again. As I recall there are sections just for the people dealing with the alcoholic?

HUGS & prayers for some relief soon!
Buttons

[Laura]

Hi all...I can take what you say, not feel I'm being "beat up"...hey, what I've been thru in life! Ha!
I'm not looking for just pats on the back and someone to join my pity party.
Don't lie....Tell it like you see this! I'm a grown up girl now.
The reason I posted this sad saga is I NEED help from those who're knowledgable in alcoholism.

Dear Crytears,
I don't know as much about your situation as some of the other posters here, only what you have posted on this thread. Therefore that is only what I can respond to.

I don't know if your daughter is still drinking or not. If she is or not is beyond your control though. What I have learned is that, particularly with our adult alcoholics, we have zero control over their choice to drink or not. We have zero control over their behavior in general. The only thing we have control over is our own choices and our own lives. If we want to help the alcoholics in our lives, the best thing we can do is to clean up our own side of the street.

I read a lot of resentment in your post. Us family members, myself included, are really good at harboring resentments. However those same resentments hurt us, not them. Having a resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. You blame your adopted children for your current financial problems. You also seem to blame them for your estranged relationship with your son. These children never asked you to adopt them. These children never asked you to spend your life's savings on them. These were YOUR choices. I am not saying they were bad choices, perhaps they were, perhaps not, only that you are accountable for them, not your adopted children. If keeping them in your home harmed your relationship with your son, again that was your choice. If you physically abused your daughter, that was your choice. There are consequences to the choices we make. What I don't see in your posts is accountability on your part. Us family members really like to play the role of the victim. Ask me how I know this.

My point is not to stir up a bunch of guilt here. This all happened in the past, and nothing can be done now to change the past. Guilt is only useful in as much as it helps us to learn from our mistakes. I am really not trying to beat you up here. I believe that you did the best you could with the knowledge and skills that you had, as all of us mothers do. I have two children of my own and have made more than my share of mistakes (and my children were pieces of cake compared to your two). Being a mother to any child is a difficult job, and the children you took on would be very challenging to Mother Teresa. They came prepackaged with all kinds of emotional trauma and baggage. I would be surprised if they hadn't turned out messed up. But it isn't their fault, anymore than it is your fault. However, it is now up to them whether or not they can get their lives together.

I strongly urge you to consider attending AlAnon. It is a great place for support for those of us who have family members who are alcoholics or addicts. It has helped provide me with the tools to cope with my sick family members. And you know what? As I got healthier, so did my family members. I was able to recognize my part in the sick dance and change the steps. Just as your daughter needs to make amends if healing is to occur, so must we........... but we can't do that until we recognize our part. Asking for forgiveness is very different than asking for pity. Alanon also teaches about detachment, a skill I think you will find quite helpful if Cindy is still drinking.

Best of luck to you and your family. May God bless you all.

Laura

[Cry Tears]

Laura...you really hit home when you say you see no accountability in what I wrote...I thought by in writting I WAS wrong and admitting I was abusive to her and saying I had a part in all this,,,, WAS being accountable...I didn't try to pass myself off as mother of the year when I wrote this.
There's not enough room here to convey all my thoughts, feelings...so perhaps that part got left out.
But you're so right...I do need to be held accountable for my pairt in this.
Yes...I am sooo full of resentment, anger, guilt, Ill ever go as far as admit down right hatred for the way my "life" has turned out by having these girls in our home.
I know they did NOT ask to be adopted or live in our home or in the US for that matter.
I'm terribly disappointed in all this because I desperatly wanted their love and acceptance. I had no idea what we were getting into adopting these kids.
No one told us, doubt we would have listened if they had...except my inlaws hatred towards all this...but then they always hated everyone who isn't white, rich and pretty!

My mother hurt me deeply, betrayed me, allowed me to be injured beyond imaginable...
She treated me far worse than I ever did them...No even close to way I was abused.
But I've managed to forgive my mom even tho she never ever asked for.
If anyone is undeserving of Mothers Day card...is her.
But I've never ever treated my mother the way these girls have me.

All we've wanted was 2 girls to love us, maybe just "like us"...I didn't ask for perfection either.

I'm outraged and angered by the youngest one putting up a page full of lies on a web site,
that I about killed her, molested her...just disguisting lies about me.
She was NEVER bruised or battered, ever!
For godsakes...we had them in counciling all the time...they would have told on us then!
She almost got arrested for filing false drugged/rape claims.
Think was claim # 5 of this. Her drinking is also causing problems.
We're all wondering if she has mental issues...but no way did I abuse her like she claims...
Cindy is upset by her lying...she's the one who linked the web page to me.
Yes...I did slap her face for constant pathological lies...yes...that did happen.
But molest her...no way! She saying I did this every time I removed her daiper....odd...
she didn't come to us till was nearly 5...did wear them then!
How sad she's gone this low.
Somehow I just don't know what to do with all this resentment I feel towards all of them....
these are actions they choose to do.

That is what I resent...that they choose to not love us, especially my husband.
He was very VERY good to them, always!
...but then are they capable of loving anyone? ....Including their own children?
But then she'll do/say anything for attention...now its her child she's using to gain attention...
no ones witnessed all those seizure she claims he has. Now the doctors are suspicous.
She's brought him back to life too many times...she's always a hero!

Ciny tells me D has Munchausen by Proxy no doubt and has called the childs doctor to allert of this.
But I find it odd, that Cindy would complain so much about D's drinking and behavior
and telling me so much about D's secret lesbian life and infidelity...just puzzeling...
but I'm thinking she's trying to earn "Brownie" points with us?!
Is D takes this web page any futher...I WILL seek out a lawyer,,,have her stop this.
I've challenged them to polygraphing...that I am open for this...but they too must comply!
But they're too afraid...D knows she's lying...but thats what she always did...everyone called her Lieanna!

I think attedning a meeting would be helpful too...will check into one here in our area.
The reason I feel terribly resentful about the money spent...is the youngest chastised me for not giving her a trust fund...
she had the balls to yell at me for my not being able to shell over $35,000 like her neighbors mother did so could buy a trendy SUV...
so can drive to day care center in style.
Wonder if she's set up trust funds for her kids yet?
When they married, they came to us wanting a nice wedding and honeymoon...of course we gave them all they asked for.
How stupid we were...as soon as they got what they wanted...they turned against us...never again! ever!
But that is only part of the reason.
Thanks for your input...I'm NOT seeking warm fuzzies here.

[Buttons2]

Cher, would it help to clarify the situation with both daughters if you set aside the alcohol issue & just concentrate on the facts? In other words,don't let the disease be an excuse for the bad behavior? (I'm saying this cause sometimes we get too caught up in the alcoholism & forgive behavior that is simply not acceptable). I know I've done this. The fact is that these gals are big time users,liars,etc. And they are NO longer your responsibility. Maybe try to concentrate on the character traits? Even a drunk can be polite @ times,and NOT stir up trouble!

I'm thinking the two of them are out to cause trouble. Why did Cindy see fit to tell you about the website? Sure wasn't to give you a warm fuzzy feeling right? She did it to hurt you!

Somehow you've got to let go of the past. What's done is done. If you allow them back into your life.....do you really believe they will act any different than in the past? What proof do you have for this?

We all must reach our own "breaking point". This is a very emotional issue for you,just try to write out the facts here & perhaps you can see the pattern & conclude the probable outcome.

The big red light I see under the "facts" is Cindy giving you the website info.What was her intention? Doesn't matter if she was drunk or not,she did this to stir up trouble & hurt both you & your husband!

Also, all the sexual content is very inappropriate for any woman to relay to her mother (my opinion).

Anyway,good luck!
Buttons

[Laura]

I think it is dangerous to guess what the intentions of other people are. Cindy might have wanted to hurt you. Or she may feel better about herself when her sister looks bad, perhaps even see this as a way to gain your favor? Dysfunctional people often feel better by putting others down. Who the heck knows.

But it is not always about us. That is a very important lesson I have learned.......... and keep needing refresher courses on. Sick people are too obsessed with their own problems to worry much about anyone else. Ideally, she deserves to be treated with respect and compassion. But that looks very different from enabling or getting sucked into the drama, and we also must treat ourselves with respect and compassion. I found that I had to work through my anger and resentments before I could get to that place of compassionate detachment. It wasn't easy and it took time. And I wasn't able to do it alone. I not only had to forgive my loved one, but more importantly, and more difficult, I had to forgive myself....... for my part. I was used to focusing on what "he did" and never on what "I did". Today I realize I have far more power in my relationships than I ever realized. I have learned how to set boundaries (miracle that I even learned what a boundary was) and separate out what belongs to me from what belongs to other people. I thought I was responsible for far too much, like keeping other people happy for example. Not my job anymore, I quit. And what a huge relief!

I am glad you are considering a meeting. I think you might find them very useful.

P.S. Children who have been molested, esp. by multiple perpetrators, ARE sexually inappropriate....... often into adulthood. Children can not learn proper sexual boundaries when theirs have been repeatedly invaded. Crytears, if her talk makes you uncomfortable, for Pete's sake say something to her. You may need to clarify for her why it is inappropriate. If she continues despite your clear request to not speak that way, then you need to cease the communication. This is an example of setting a boundary.