wife says she has had enough

[Mark N]

My wife has decided she can't live with me any more after 22 years. Of course she wants to wait until she gets her old job back that pays big money, then I can choose to live separately or get a divorce. Right now I don't know if I should let her work through her mental problems or boot her out the door and tell her to have a good life. Not only would she leave me behind but also her teenage son who is just now entering high school. She offers many excuses but the truth of the matter is that I am not up and about enough to cause many problems, most of the time I am in my chair down in the basement where she doesn't have much contact with me, yet her major complaint is we argue all the time - which isn't true of the time we are together but really not true of most of the off hours in her day.

I am not really asking for any help I am just frustrated and hurting needing to let it out. Thanks for being here so I don't say something to her I will regret even though I politely laid it on the line about what she is doing. She has threatened to leave ever since my disability started and I don't really trust what she says. I do know that she has withdrawn from me and does almost nothing for me. She doesn't cook our meals, doesn't care for me on really bad days, doesn't show any affection to me, and all the things you think of th ways to show love she doesn't do much of them. She has suggested home care for me as my disability gets worse. I know she doesn't want to take care of me if I get worse and she has said so several times. Even though I haven't been perfect in my treatment of her I have always seen her as the love of my life and I hate to see that it is gone especially when I gave my best effort to show her she was the love of my life.

[shotspine]

(((((((((((((((((Marc)))))))))))))))) I'm very single so can't offer you any advice, but I can be here to listen.

I'm sorry!! Whatever happens, I hope it is best for everyone, especially the kids. You know how much you are loved and admired here, so you sure aren't alone. Hang in there Marc!!!

[Female Hank 1]

Mark, I am so sorry your wife is putting you thru this. I was afraid that my husband my leave me when I became disabled. I should have known better, but what we all go thru with our constant pain make us very insecure. I have been married 43 and a half years and I became disabled 21 years ago.

I wise I could send you a magic pill that would make everthing better for you. I would send you some words of wisdom if I had them, but guess I am not that wise. I just wanted to let you know that I am thing of you.
Linda

[Mark N]

SS, No real advice needed any more because this has been going on for a long time. Thanks for the support as that is what I need as much as anything right now. The sad part is it would be good for the my son even though he would prefer to put up with his mom's issues than have her leave but he has said in the past it might be better to have her go. When he and his older sister [she is in college and gone]use to come to me to complain, I would try to get them to see the good qualities in her but I pointed out she was my choice and there were other examples of how marriage could be different.

Thanks for letting me let this out and still supporting me here.

Linda, thanks for the thoughtfulness. I have thought for a long time she would leave but knew that she never should, she has just decided she can't care for me as I get worse and it is easier to leave.

[Kathi49]

Mark,

I hate to hear this and my heart goes out to you. I know you don't want advice and are just letting it out as you say. And I can imagine the hurt and frustration. I know just based on past posts of yours that this has been going on for a long time. And I think you have tried everything under the sun to save the marriage. So, you have my empathy and sympathy. I don't have any words of wisdom either as I can't begin to REALLY know what is going on in her mind...other than I guess she just can't handle it. I would say more but it would all be in the form of advice and I know you don't want to hear that right now. But just know I am here to listen and so is everyone else. I wish things could be different for you...I really do.

[tiva]

Mark,

I am so very sorry of the heartache that you're going through. And what a frustrating situation that you can't do anything about. I can say that I would be devastated if my husband were to do this to me. I'm sorry too that it's coming at a time when you're dealing with more health problems and uncertainty with your spine.

[simby]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((mark))))))))))))))))))) ))))

[suede]

(((Mark))))
There are no words to express how sad I am that she continues to use your disability against you.
Please vent here and know how much you are cared about and even though we can't help you as we wish, we all are here for you.
Many hugs,
Linda

[Pharmacist.steve]

The grass on the other side of the fence may be greener ... because there are more cow patties over there! Some people never figure this out until they have already gotten there and the gate has been closed and locked behind them...

[razmataz]

My wife has decided she can't live with me any more after 22 years. Of course she wants to wait until she gets her old job back that pays big money, then I can choose to live separately or get a divorce. Right now I don't know if I should let her work through her mental problems or boot her out the door and tell her to have a good life. Not only would she leave me behind but also her teenage son who is just now entering high school. She offers many excuses but the truth of the matter is that I am not up and about enough to cause many problems, most of the time I am in my chair down in the basement where she doesn't have much contact with me, yet her major complaint is we argue all the time - which isn't true of the time we are together but really not true of most of the off hours in her day.

I am not really asking for any help I am just frustrated and hurting needing to let it out. Thanks for being here so I don't say something to her I will regret even though I politely laid it on the line about what she is doing. She has threatened to leave ever since my disability started and I don't really trust what she says. I do know that she has withdrawn from me and does almost nothing for me. She doesn't cook our meals, doesn't care for me on really bad days, doesn't show any affection to me, and all the things you think of th ways to show love she doesn't do much of them. She has suggested home care for me as my disability gets worse. I know she doesn't want to take care of me if I get worse and she has said so several times. Even though I haven't been perfect in my treatment of her I have always seen her as the love of my life and I hate to see that it is gone especially when I gave my best effort to show her she was the love of my life.

Mark,

I haven't been posting(much) because of caregiving of my two brothers and my chronic pain.

I have been reading posts and when I read yours I felt the need to answer. I've been thru 2 divorces. The latter was for some of the same reasons as you've stated in your post about your wife.

I've had migraines way too long. My second husband detested sick people..partially because he was afraid it might happen to him..and partially because he never matured...I made the decision to divorce because when I was sick...I could see the look of distaste...on his face whenever I needed assistance. I TRULY believe it was a VERY unhealthy environment for me. It took me down, mentally.. not too far, because in spite of my disability...I am and forever will remain a fighter. However...when he was around it was a constant reminder of the friction between us...and how my illness affected us both. I decided honesty was/is the best way to go..and that meant facing the fact the my environment was poisonous...As chronic pain people..we need as much positive influences and people...in our lives as possible...

I am SO happy that you have your children who seem very devoted to you...I have no children. Sometimes it takes awhile in life to "get it right" and then it's never perfect. Often when in the past you posted something your wife had said or done...it was like a knife in my heart...(memories of the past)....My life is and always will be dedicated to compassion for those who are less fortunate than I...Often I can't offer much..but when I've met or been involved with someone they walk away knowing I CARE! ..and in the long run..when all is said and done...what do we have?...our honesty, integrety and ability to grasp the reality of a situation and act on someone's behalf...OR we have the choice not too.

I know you are feeling much emotional pain..and I really do believe you will get beyond it...You have a rare strength of character and it will serve you well..no matter what situation you find yourself in.

We are all here for you and will continue to be...I don't want to give you advice...either...so just know that you have our support!

Razmataz

[BrokenBladder]

(((((((((((Mark))))))))))))
You're in my thoughts and prayers!!

Take Care,

[Mark N]

I was hoping to keep up with each post and thank each of you but know that I appreciating all that you do for me. If this happened several years ago I would have been devastated but as I have become friends with you over the years I know that I am not alone or the rotten person she wants to portray me as. My kids support me and will help me through but your support is greatly appreciated.

I don't know what I will do when she finds out the grass is greener for all the cow patties and decides she wants to climb out of the sh** but I will make a decision based on what is best for my family and not just for her.

[GardeniaGirl]

Mark, I just wanted to say I am sorry that the woman you chose as your life partner isn't someone who could be there for you when you got CP.

The way you describe your wife reminds me a lot of my mom - and based on what I have seen of my mom, that type of person doesn't really have the emotional maturity to deal with something as hard as CP. Its sad to realize that about someone. Its a big let down and disappointment.

I'm glad you feel like you have friends to turn to here on BrainTalk -- you are a great friend to all of us that is for sure.

(((mark)))

GG

[jimac]

Mark,
I am so sorry to hear this. I can not offer any great advise or words of wisdom. You know what is best for your family and for you. You will know in your heart what to do when the time arrives for this decision.
I will say one thing.... Just remember that you can take care of yourself (with the help of the kids) and you need to be happy in order to heal and to deal with CP.

I like the one about the greener pastures and cow patties. If she does leave... tell her not to let the door hit her in the behind as she may fall face first into one of those patties...... did I make you smile??? huh, huh.

Take care dude! (((Mark))) (OK only real men hug)
Jim

[Mark N]

Thanks GG and Jim for the hugs and kind thoughts. GG I told her years ago when she stressed our marriage to the max during my lumbar fusion that it was a good thing I didn't have something terminal as she couldn't love me and care for me if I did. Her big thing then was I stopped loving her because I would lie in bed with her until she went to sleep and then go sleep on the couch as it was the only way to keep from killing my back. I would get up in the morning before she got up for work and lie in bed with her again. Yet she kept harping on me that I didn't love her any more. Counseling finally got her the treatment she needed but her sister [a pharmacist] convinced her she didn't need to be on the medication, along with the weight gain she went of the meds and things went from very good to bad again. Thanks for the support.

[debhun]

((((((((((Mark)))))))))))

I am so sorry to hear that there is new hurt in your life. I can't say I am surprised by this. You had said a few things here and there and I knew one day she was going to do this to you. For that I am sorry. Some people just can't deal with our CP. They just don't want to be in the shadows of our pain. And we just can't be who we were 20 years ago. As we do get older our body's just don't stay the same. She will fine this out the hard way and there will be no one there to hold her hand when it does happen. The kids will be grown and gone by that time.Then she will see what she did to you. I really hope she pays for what she is doing to you. I know how it feel. I have one myself here. But the thing with him is he knows I will not leave the house and spend his money. That is why he stays with me.
Mark I hope you can come to us any time that you have the need too. Cause we are all here for you. The only thing is we can't really give you that Big hug that you really need right now. So this will have to do ((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))). I hope that you fine peace within to get you though these ruff times.
You need us we be here
Deb

[Maggie]

Mark, I can tell by your participation here on the forum that you are a giving and considerate person. Just the fact that your children are so understanding of your situation speaks a lot.
There are so many issues to deal with and no one person can give another person total advise. I know you are not here for that, but, just know that your first step to getting through this either way it goes is to know within your own heart that you are O.K. and have done everything you can to salvage this situation.

Sometimes the stress of hanging on works against your body and you would be better off without it. When I'm hurting, I don't want to deal with anything but just go lay down in a dark room and rest, not worrying about anything else but thinking of the next day or so when relief comes again.
We're thinking of you
Maggie

[Boxerlover]

Mark, I am so sorry. You are such a compassionate and caring person and she doesn't deserve you. I am fairly new here and didn't know of your struggles. I do know how hard it is, after I got sick my husband and I almost split up. Just know I am thinking of you and you are in my prayers.

Melissa

[Mark N]

Melissa, Maggie, and Deb,thanks for the kindness that you give. Deb, like you I was afraid this would happen one day and I knew there was nothing I could do as my disability wasn't going to get better. I knew it was a matter of time when she was on medication and got off it because she gained weight and her sister convinced her she didn't need that medication. It didn't matter to her that the family was doing much better when she was on the medication.

If I really focused on our situation I would really be furious with my SIL for sticking her nose in our business thinking she was doing what was best for her sister. I have too many real problems to waste time thinking about things like my SIL's butting into our business.

I thank the three of you for your consideration and kindness.

[Dodar]

Mark

Just wanted to say am thinking of you through this difficult time...Your children will be a big comfort and enjoyment...

Thank you for all you do here & SD...

Dodar

[photonut]

Hey Mark...I am not going to add a comment only to say I am here for you if you need vent. It is always helpful to know your have friends who understand and care. I am one. You do not stand alone as I am right beside you...Not in front nor behind just right here beside you...Just post and I'll be there.....Allie

[Mark N]

Dodar and Allie, thanks for just being here and letting me talk through this. I know that I have people here willing to listen and stand with me, thanks.

[Bobbi]

Mark, I'm sorry for what you have been "enduring." I won't offer advice since that isn't what you seek.

I can only think, though, that what has been ongoing compounds stress and is not good for anyone with CP.

If me, and if treated as you have been: I'd kick the person's a$$ straight to the curb, though. Living in limbo and under constant "threat" just is not healthful.

But I also wonder: What ever happened to "through sickness and health"? I suppose there are many whom are fickle in "vows" taken :(.

I cannot place myself in your position; I haven't children, etc. I can only say that my first priority would be to my children. I'd ask myself about the mirroring of relationship issues to offspring and what will be the impact on children if in such a situation.

Sometimes it is just better to say: It ain't working, and do one's best for children so that they do not grow up constantly exposed to problems that do not belong a staple of their lives. It can skew their understanding - surrounded by strife and belittling to one parent. I'd not want to perpetuate the cycle.

[Mark N]

Bobbi, thanks for the caring words. I do think about my son [especially since he is home] and daughter. If my wife will not change then she will need to go. She has had many chances and I have been willing to make changes so that time is over. Over the years she has upped the ante to hurt me. She will say things she knows attacks what I care about. Early on it was 'I didn't love her any more" that she used, it became I want to kill myself then I want a divorce to finally I don't love you any more. All the while saying just the opposite when she wasn't upset. She knows that I loved her dearly, am opposed to suicide, opposed to divorce, and that losing her love [if she every really loved me in the first place] would hurt me. The time for her to hurt me is over and if she can't see her problems [yes I have contributed to some of them] that hurt our kids as much as she hurts me then she can go. She just doesn't understand she says things that are very hurtful and then takes offense when there is none intended.

A couple of years ago I was putting down an open rebellion with the kids because of her hurtful comments and actions. I had continued to hope she would see the light when all three of us told her at different times what she was doing but she is more afraid of changing than she is of losing us, I guess.

Once again, thanks Bobbi.

[Bobbi]

Y'know, Mark, I really do understand. Divorce, for many, just doesn't feel as an "option." Millions of people have done as you have and took a vow that truly did mean something.

The most hurtful is: When another just tosses it away or is willing to throw it back in another's face and push and push to trigger a reaction.

But... with the space overcrowded, it restricts the space that could be filled by someone far more caring and compassionate.

If she wants out, say: Go. You're free. That also liberates your space and opens the opportunity for you to move on and, likely, find someone whom will likely love you dearly. This is just not fair to you. It is sucking your lifeblood. You deserve far better.

I don't like to "bash" women, but some can be total b*tch*s.

The roller coaster ride is one that needs to be over. Your life is too precious... and everyone's has a "fixed" rate. I just would not squander time on someone whom is not committed to the relationship. It is damaging in so many ways.

I really feel for you and everyone in such a crappy situation.

I just wouldn't pander to the threats; it'd be "put up or shut up; here's the door."

When in relationships: Here's my philosophy. "You stay out all night? Don't come back." The doors are forever locked. I don't want to risk someone else's STD's, etc. Hard-nosed? Oh, well. I've not contracted anything I don't want (I mean diseases I don't need infecting my life). If someone wants to leave, it ain't my job to convince the person to stay. I haven't the energy for that "game."

[Mark N]

Bobbi, I know what you are saying and once in a while it sucks the blood life out of me but not for long as I am optimistic. I know she has a mental problem just as her mother did so I am willing to wait and see if she can learn from the next lesson. I have told her she can leave and then it gets turned around that I have threatened her that she has to go rather than me saying after she says she wants a divorce. I have asked her what her vows mean and why doesn't she stick with them but her parents always blame others and sees their family as blameless so I know where it comes from. They let her run up to her room and shut everyone out, even though she shared the room with two sisters, whenever there was a conflict instead of dealing with the problem. Her dad was a dictator and even though I have let her make major decisions and included her in all my job choices she thinks she has been repressed by me. It is a complicated problem that I have supported her through out but she can't she that and may never be able to see it. She can choose whatever decision she wants.

[spoiledbeth]

Mark,

My heart breaks for you. I lost a four year relationship to cp, and can't imagine the pain of knowing all this time that it's coming, and knowing the pain your kids are being put through. Don't blame yourself because she can't take the stress of being in a "for worse" relationship, and I will pray your family can make it through this with as few scars as possible.

Beth in MO *butterfly

[Mark N]

Thanks Beth, don't worry about the pain as we aren't going through much since my wife has put us through all of this for years. The kids have been prepared and so have I and I don't know that she has the guts to go through with it. I really appreciate the concern and I don't blame myself although for a while she had me wondering what I had done to cause it and I have contributed a small part to this but have said I wa wrong and sorry but this something she can't do herself. My hope is the God finally gets through to her but she doesn't even listen to him right now although she goes through the motions right now.

[suede]

(((Mark)))

Sorry for the long emotional post, I hope that today is a better day and that all will work out for you the way you want.

Linda

[debhun]

Good Morning Mark, Hope you have a good day. Hang in there

[jane2]

I'm sorry and you seem like a nice guy. Like everybody else I have no advice, just here to say I'm sorry.


We just can't control how other people feel about us. The worst is the hurtful words and once they are said they can never be taken back. I don't say things that are hurtful, if I can help it. This makes it very hard to fight with people who do.

If she's not prepared to deal with your illness and all that comes with it, know that anybody you meet from now on, will know what the situation is, so they will come into it eyes wide open.

Good luck to you.

[Mark N]

Thanks Deb and Jane, I am doing okay as this isn't the first time she has done this. I will just have to see if she follows through and if she does then she has prepared me and the kids for this. Jane, i don't get into the public enough any more for there to be any after her if it works out that way. My disability, at least right now, doesn't allow me to get out often. That is okay though as I am not needing anyone else in my life. I married for life and that is what I plan to do. That doesn't mean I won't change down the road but I don't think it will.

Thanks for the support and Deb thanks for checking on me. How is your recovery going? Are you still in as much pain as before?

[houghchrst]

Mark I am truly sorry about your situation. I am newer here so am not quite as familiar to what has been going on but I get the general idea just reading back through this thread alone. I will admit that this is one of my fears and it is one of the reasons I am still in a long engagement. Been ten years but he is younger than I and i am of the mind that not being married is an easy way out for him as I get worse. He is a wonderful caregiver though.

I really hope that you take the initiative and make the decision that is healthiest for you and for your children, show them that there is a healthier, saner way to live. (I don't mean to make light with the saner comment, BiPolar is my home forum) I think it is wonderful that everyone here has been so supportive. You have a great set of friends.

[Mark N]

Thanks for the kind words Christina.

[curiousforever]

I'm so sorry Mark. I wish I could help you....hugs...

[Mark N]

CF, thanks it isn't too different than any other days we have had lately. I am going to talk to her tonight and get some things straightened out. I don't mind giving her some space and time to figure things out as long as she treats me and my son like she is a wife and mother. If she can't do that then she doesn't need to wait around until the good job opens up.

[Bobbi]

I hope that everything works out well, Mark, for you and for your son and daughter. Whatever you need to do or decide, y'know, you have a ton of support, including mine. Just hang in there :cool:.

[Boxerlover]

Mark, I hope your conversation went well and you are doing ok. I was just thinkng about you and am so impressed by your resilence. Make sure you take care of you.((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))).

Melissa

[Mark N]

Melissa, the conversation didn't go very well. It is shocking to see how hateful my wife is towards me and the horrible twist she puts on her memories. She is a woman that has a devoted husband, yes I make mistakes, has great kids that stay out of trouble and do well in school, along with finances that are under control and so many things in her favor yet she feels she is the most mistreated woman around. Her concept of reality is bizarre to say the least.

After listening to her describe me in the vilest ways I told her she needs to call one of her friends and find someplace to go. Of course she backtracked to staying married and living apart seeing each other occasionally. That just isn't going to cut it any longer. I don't mind her taking the other job when it comes up but if she can't see her description of me isn't rational then she needs to leave and find happiness somewhere else. I am tired of not being ____________fill in the blank, good enough for her because that is the way I have felt over the years. I am good enough for her and I don't need to prove it any more.

Thanks for the well wishes but it is clear she hates me and she is unwilling to see me any other way right now.

[razmataz]

Mark...

So sorry you are having to go thru this right now...but I understand..as I have been there...to me it was emotional abuse...and I flat out would not tolerate it...

In spite of everything...and I KNOW you are hurting...you have a clear head and are remaining strong.

Please take care of yourself FIRST...

Razmataz

[Mark N]

Razmataz, thanks for understanding. If I could generate the hate for her she has for me it would be easy but then I would be out of touch with reality too.

[razmataz]

...and more importantly reacting to peoples' negativity..puts THEM in control...I remember the pain I felt...but I refused to give my ex. that control...I also know what it's like to be in a bad "space" mentally...but we all have choices...I worked in psychiatry at a teaching hospital for about 10 years and witnessed a lot a damage done and in action...it's very complex...would your wife consider counseling?

Razmataz

[Mark N]

No, we have been through counseling three times and it helped out except for the unfortunate counselor the last time. now my wife thinks they do no good and it is a waste of time. I wish she would just because of her distortion of past memories and the way she relates to our kids. She is generally nice to people around her but has real problems with people in close relationships with her.

[Sara1979]

I am so incredibly sorry, Mark. You are alway so kind and supportive on the board. Your wife will have a great loss in the end. Hugs.

[Mark N]

Thanks Sara:)

[suede]

You know Mark, when you I read that you say she is nice to people around her but it's the people she is in a close relationship with that she isn't, strikes me as if something happened to her at sometime in her life that has caused her to cut off from the people that love her and she is close to, out of fear of being hurt.

I have seen this often in my life and was even that way for a time and now I find I have to work at not being that way. It sounds as if she has a fear of rejection and abandonment.

From what you tell us it seems to me that she attacks the ones close to her as a way of hurting them before they can her, it seems to me that if she can control this and not treat other people this way and just her loved ones that it is less of a mental illness and more a very deep wound and insecurity that may be causing this.

If being on medication has helped her at times it is most likely because it has helped relieve some of the tension she lives with daily. I know from my own personal experience that living the way she is, tears a person up inside and the more she behaves this way the less she likes herself and the more hateful and hurtful she becomes to the ones close to her.

I may be way off base and it won't be the first time but I never really noticed before how much you say she isn't this way with others and of course that would be because they don't have the ability to hurt her like you and her children.

Just my thoughts again and doesn't really matter because it still doesn't change anything if she isn't willing to get help, but it would also explain why she has quit therapy before and doesn't want to start again as whatever it is she is holding back probably comes closer to surfacing at certain points in therapy and she doesn't feel strong enough to handle it.

Over all though you still need to protect your self and your children as this is no way for anyone to live, whatever the reason just know this you and your loved ones remain in my heart and thoughts.

LInda

[Mark N]

Linda, you have said what I see as the biggest issue with her. It is just sad she has pushed it so far she is willing to give up a family that loves her and only sees it as our fault. I wish she could admit to what you are saying and try to receive help for it but I just can't get her to get help or recognize she needs it and I only make it worse any more if I dare raise that issue.

It is one of the main issues I have put up with the problems that have cropped up from this for so long. She is now upping the ante to the point she will cut off her nose to spite her face.

[911]

i wasnt going to respond to this i have been lurcking for a while due to my own issues but i have to , my first wife did almost the exact same thing to me when i first got sick , i was working alot of hours because we had just had the twins and she hadnt been working but was going to return to work because she needed out of the house and this i could understand what i didnt know when she was doing this is she was making her plans behind my back to leave me or better yet ask me to leave . anyways in the end she got her job back , stowed away my money i had been making for the family , to suport the family and the money she had made , i wasnt told directly or didnt find out like you how ever i came home from one of my trips ( i traveled to repir and install tv stations) and came home early to suprise her or so i thought i was the one who ended up being suprised i found her in my home with her new boyfreind , that night i left and this triggered what was to be a very bad run for my life for the next ten years , i did not however speak ill of her to my boys as i was not gona have them pay the price for our problems , so my advice to you would be do not do her any favors , take care of your needs first !!! absolutly make sure your taken care of shes not looking out for your interst here , i have a fair idea of how you must feel and i am sorry for that as when we take our vows of marrage the vows "staqte in sickness and in health" till death do us part , well that is or has been thrown out it seems by your wife so please lok after your needs while you have the chance ,,,,,,,,,,, i am sorry your going thru this !! david aka 911

[Mark N]

David, I am sorry for what you have gone through. It is as bad as what I have gone through. The sad part is I understand why she is the way she is, her family is exactly like her. They are always right and the partner is always wrong. In-laws are generally ignored at family gatherings, her parents love one another but never showed that love to any of their kids and the kids didn't learn how to love anyone else. They were kept under their dad's thumb as long as they lived at home no matter how old. Her dad can't deal with any hint of disagreement and that is the way my wife is. My wife denies she is wrong about anything even when the kids side with me and tell her. My daughter dislikes her and wants nothing more to do with her while her younger brother is getting more and more upset with his mom. If she isn't willing to change [and right now she doesn't seem to be] she will be out the door soon.

It is a shame because in spite of the hurt and terrible things she says about me I really do love her and wish the good loving person hiding from all of us would come out and enjoy life. She will be shocked at how much money it will cast her if she chooses divorce and her well paying job may not be so well paying after all.

Dave, I feel really bad for what you went through. I at least get decent behavior from her as long as I don't interact with her or say anything contrary to what she says. You didn't know it was coming and were taken advantage of both emotionally and financially. My wife thinks that she will live separately and everything will be fine as long as we don't see each other very often. Too bad that we don't really know what our spouses will do.

[Peter B]

Hi Mark,
My wife and I split up 4 years ago. Yes, it was right when I started to get REALLY sick. It would be easy for me to blame the illness for our break up but that wouldn't be completely honest. It was more like the last straw.

She has the same kind of "make up" psychologically speaking, of course.
As a child she was sexually abused by a brother, her father and while a freshman in HS, a teacher had his way with her. No, she did not report it. She was so young and who would she tell? Her father?

Oh, her mother abandoned my wife and 3 siblings when she was about 7 years old. And to top it off, her father was an alcoholic. He was also an unreasonable, nasty, vindictive *******. I know this because I met him just a few months before he kicked the bucket. Cirrohsis, what else? Good riddance.

So, this explains the fact that she 'pushes' people away. Not regular people, just family. She isn't always pleasant to strangers either. God knows she pushed me. After I lost my job of 22 years (my boss said my leg looked like a war zone), I couldn't pay my mortgage so the house was put up. At that point I suggested that this is the perfect time for the two of us to go our separate ways. She became very upset but got over it quickly.

Sorry for the digression. Anyway, it explains WHY she is the way she is. It, of course, does not EXCUSE it in any way. The woman has some very heavy
baggage.

So Mark (and others), I completely understand where you're coming from.

Pain free days,
Pete

[Bobbi]

Y'know what strikes me as so sad, but... not unexpected: How downright cruel some women can be. Why I say not unexpected is because I've worked with men whom have been victims of domestic violence. It still hurts - whether it is a male or a female whom has subjected another to abuse (and belittling, verbal and emotional abuse... fall into the classification of abuse).

As a female, it's so hard to see.

To me? women, as the birth-givers should be nurturing and protective, willing to do whatever it takes to shield one's loved ones from as much pain as possible. Why I think this way? Who knows? I don't. Maybe it's that women go through so much (months and months of carrying a fetus to life and then... do what? Be mean? I just don't get that. It is such a disconnect for my brain and for my heart, particularly when there are women within the forum I've "met" who have hearts of gold).

But: I know better. My own mother turned her back on her children and...

It still doesn't make it easier to know that women can be so cruel.

I am sorry for the men here whom have suffered as have women: abuse. It hurts to know and to think about (and even with or minus my own associations I bring to the subject).

I would never treat an animal as I have seen some have been treated here; it's not that I love animals less or more so than humans. It's that an entity with a beating heart and pulse is inherently worthy of respect, love and compassion.

My hope is that for anyone treated unkindly: You know that not everyone will treat you the same. There is another, a better journey awaiting - whether it is with a partner whom may benefit also from counseling or making a break and making Life without abuse a priority.

No matter: You have support. But it doesn't lessen the pain of knowing what you are going through.

[Mark N]

Bobbi, you are right about what you post. Can you believe the minister's wife from TN that killed him is out of jail already. If that had been a man killing a woman.....

My wife worried about being a mother from the start and sure enough she turned on my daughter while babying our son. Even that hasn't stopped him from being disgusted with the things she does and says. One time he wanted to be with nus and have a family conference and he told his mother to her face how mean she was to tell me I had a drunken mind, that I was senile, etc and how I didn't say things like that to her. She has said that I am worthless to society since I can't work any more even though my disability pay is more than her income. I feel for her and understand she has a tortured soul because of her upbringing. She will not acknowledge that her parents are the cause of her trouble even though the truly mean things in her life were caused by them so I am the scapegoat instead.

I wish all the people that torment others could switch roles for a short time to see what it is like.

[911]

thanks mark , i am thru that pain mostly i will always carry part of it but thats ok i have accepted it i guess my point was just this look out for yourself its that imporrtant !!!

[curiousforever]

And I bet if you got a parade of people you coached telling her how much you helped them - she'd still feel that way....it's not you - it's her.

And I'm sorry she's doing that to you...

[Mark N]

CF, I have understood it is her for a while now. She had me doubting myself because when there is a problem I look to what I am doing first. It finally dawned on me that it was her and no mater who she was married to would be dealing with this. I am willing to work through this with her but there are limits and I have to reestablish them.

[Leeaelle]

Dear Mark ~ I just saw this, as I haven't been online in a few days! Gosh, I'm so very very sorry! I just don't get some people.

You say that you think alot of her problems are from her upbringing. Well, there comes a time when we have to grow up, face our demons, and stop using our parents as an 'alibi' for our rotten behavior. Many many of us have had traumatic childhoods but learned to deal with it without hurting the people we care for the most. She's either going thru a mid~life crisis or she needs some counseling desperately! For her to say the the things she did to you and your children proves that point.

You certainly don't need to be going thru all of this my friend. You've been going thru plenty already without all this emotional trauma too! I wish there was something I could say that would help ~ but I hope you know that MOST women are not like that! ;)

My prayers are with you Mark and will continue to be. God bless! Hugs, Lee

[Mark N]

Lee, thanks for the kindness. Yes she is going through a midlife crisis and needs counseling for long term issues. We have been having a much better time the past three nights but you can never know what will set her off and we have some ground to cover if things will get better. She still plans on leaving as far as I know but she is finding out things don't always work out the way she planned it. The job has opened up but she isn't as sure about getting it now as she was lead to believe.

[Kathi49]

Mark,

I just wanted to let you know I have been thinking about you and your situation. And I do agree with what Lee just said. But so far she hasn't confronted any of her demons. How do you propose to get her to do so? You said you needed to re-establish some guidelines or boundaries. Do you think that will work? I am not trying to be mean here or negative. I just know that you cannot change a person. It seems to me that if she leaves of course it will be rough. But it may be even worse if she stays. I can just see the resentment or whatever it is compounding because she will probably feel forced in more ways than one. And trust me, I am NOT taking her side. But I just haven't heard you say that she is willing to do one darn thing to help herself. I know you are hoping that she will "see the light" but it may not turn out that way. Love is great and so is faith...but it CANNOT be one sided.

And I wasn't going to air my own laundry but you know as well as I do that I had my own crisis moments...make that about 5 years worth! And that was BEFORE CP hit me. I need not go into it as you already know what I am speaking of. But...I did sit down and asked myself...what was I getting out of all of this? And the answer was...grief, hurt, torment, fear and self esteem that was bottoming out fast! And if you don't think my nerves were shot...they were! The worst I have ever been. And then it FINALLY occured to me...I don't need this nor do I want it!!! I could still love the man I married or for who he used to be. But sorry, I love me too and had to take care of myself and my daughter. Love be damned! At least that is how I felt at that time. At that point it was self preservation. And I am not speaking of physical abuse...there was never any of that. More emotional and verbal but abuse all the same.

Sooo...off to the attorney I went....I was done...plain and simple. I got my facts lined up, legal rights in order, plan in place. And I was ready. Honestly, by then, I wasn't even mad anymore. I was just ready to move on and to stop the insanity. That's when I came home and laid the law down. I very calmly told him precisely what was what. I don't think I even cried...I had already spent all the tears I had had.

But, boy, that is when the tables turned. That is when he cried and carried on...about how much he loved me and didn't want to lose me. I was a stone...sorry...but I was. I spent too many exhausting nights worrying and crying myself....again, 5 years worth of it! Anyway, he was the one then that was BEGGING to go to counseling. I said, why, why should we, I have already asked over and over and over that we go and you would have none of it. So, I had gone by myself...just to cope. It was the counseling many, many times that helped me to just get by that and some darn Zoloft! Plus I had my support in place and my job kept me busy.

Anyway, after about a week of his pleading, I told him okay, you have just ONE more chance; YOU find the counselor...and he better be a good one. Furthermore, I told him...and you better speak the truth or I am walking right out of that office. So, we went. I was completely amazed at how much he really did open up and he spoke the truth at each and every session. And I know he was telling the truth because I also had evidence. And we went two days a week for about a year. With each session things got better and better...even though there was a lot of emotionalism in there. But...darn good counselor! :)

I have to say that it was the counseling that turned things around. He did everything the counselor asked him to do; read books, talked to me about certain things that he had kept quiet before...things of that nature. He went to meetings and just did everything he was asked to do. And, really, it helped.

I will say it took a long time for me to get past the hurt and to regain trust again. And things have been much, much better the last few years. Sure, there are times he gets edgy but he has learned how to communicate much better. Things aren't perfect but I never expected them to be. But I do and have seen a lot of changes and all for the better. And when the spinal disorders hit, he was there by my side at all times. The thing is...he just didn't have his priorities in the right place. I am not making excuses...but I have seen such a change when I got so sick.

Anyway, all I am really saying is that I think it took a "hit" to get him to understand that I wasn't going to put up with it anymore. No amount of begging and pleading worked. Had he not tried or made an attempt to turn things around I definitely would have left. And putting guidelines or boundaries in place would NOT have worked with him. He needed a counselor to get inside his head and I needed to understand and find out where all this crap had been coming from. And believe me, I did not cause this. That is what hurt so much. I never knew what was going on inside his mind...not until counseling. Most of the time I wondered where all of his anger was coming from...now I know...and it was not me. I think sometimes too we wonder what WE did wrong. I had to stop the self blame because honestly, I couldn't think of a thing that I had done to cause a lot of this. And, nope, in the long run...it was not even about me.

Sometimes, I guess, it takes a baseball bat (figuratively speaking) to get them to realize what they do have and what they could lose. But more importantly, we do NOT or did NOT deserve this. A person that really loves you will NOT put you through the torment. And that's the conclusion I had to come to.

[BrokenBladder]

Mark I know how devoted you are to your wife, but Kathi speaks the truth in her post to you. There is no way you can fix your wife, she has to see the problem and make the effort.

Kathi your post moved me as your words are that of wisdom and truth.

[suede]

Mark,

I hope that you are doing better.

Kathi,
I only want to add to your heartfelt post how fortunate your DH and you were that to much damage hadn't already been done, often by the time things get this far out of control the damage is so great on ones side that it is beyond repair.
I want to say to you that your a very forgiving, loving person to be able to forgive and let go of so much pain, that makes it even more fortunate for your DH.
Also I know that it took one heck of a lot of hard work on your part to get beyond so much anguish and pain, your one heck of a person !!

Mark,
Your a very fortunate man to have so many loving and caring friends to open themselves up to you as they have so while your wife is beating you up emotionally just remember this.
Also know that you will handle things in the manner that is best for you and there is nothing wrong with that it is the way it is meant to be, so don't beat yourself up even more then she already is, until you feel comfortable with what ever choice you make in this relationship it is just as it is intended for whatever reasons.
I've no doubt that when the time is right you will do what is right for you and everyone involved.

Many hugs,
Linda

[Mark N]

Let me say how thankful I am for all the friends and support I have here. Kathi, the situation you described that turned your husband around we had about 11 years ago. I stood my ground and said counseling or we were done [after years of her insecurity and attacks on my integrity]. Her parents got involved and sided with her until one day my MIL called to talk to me. Nothing had been going on that morning between my wife and I but once I started talking to her mother and explaining I didn't want a divorce but my wife had promised three times previously to see a counselor but backed out when things calmed down so this time she had to go with me. My wife had been upstairs so she got on the extension and started cussing and swearing at me saying horrible things with her mother hearing for the first time what I was going through. She convinced my wife to go to counseling to save her marriage, it worked very good as we both went. It became a complete focus on her problem so it was set up for me to stay home so she could open up more and come back with her when they were ready to start on the marriage counseling. She started on some strong medicine - AD plus anti-psychotic and things improved greatly. I gave up my career goal to go from the top ten football program to a top 5A [largest] program to move to a small school/town program so my wife would be comfortable with her living atmosphere and I wouldn't have to commute 50 minutes each way which had caused some problems for us.

Things are very good for about three years and finally my wife was convinced by her pharmacist sister she shouldn't be on the medicine she was taking because she didn't need it, "it was for senile old people" and my wife didn't like the weight she gained. We went to her psychiatrist to talk about going off the meds and my wife promised to go back on the meds if I saw her reverting back to her distortion of past events and accusations of the family again. I should also point out she was starting to rebuild her relationship with our daughter. It has been down hill ever since she went off the medication and she refused to go back on it because she didn't need it and the rest of us needed to get better.

So it was like the early part of our marriage and it has now been the same length of time as the first long episode [11 years each time] so we are back to setting the limits once again letting the consequences be what she chooses. Kathi, Lisa, and Linda know that I will do what gives us a chance but there is a line I won't go past because I still love her and it isn't right to go along with her acting in a destructive way. Thank you for your support and help when things have been very tough for me. I also want to thank all the others that have done so much to help me get through this.

[Kathi49]

Lisa and Linda,

Thank you very much for the kind words. :) I truly did not want to air my laundry on here. I was just on a roll this morning. And, yes, it really did take a lot of hard work on both of our parts. The bottom line is...it takes both parties willing to do whatever it takes to get the marriage back on track. If not, it is over. And that is just my own personal opinion of the whole mess...at least as far as I was concerned. Anyway, I thank you guys...I am little :o that I said as much as I did.

Mark,

You know what I think of all this. But I have no doubt you will do what is best for you. I DO hope you can get this resolved.

[Mark N]

Thanks to the three of you, things have improved the past week and I can see her trying to do better. I am trying to fight the pain and sit with her more. I was able to talk with her today and establish some standards, if she couldn't live with them I told her we will divorce because it isn't fair to her to hang around people she doesn't respect.


I just can't say thanks enough to everyone so I will say it again, THANKS!

[suede]

Mark,

I so hope that this is the first step in a healing direction for you all, i will keep positive thoughts and energy coming your way!!


Kathi,

I'm sure it wasn't easy exposing yourself the way you did, I'm glad though that you found it in yourself to share such an intimate time with Mark as often it takes hearing about others personal experiences to give us the courage and energy to take the steps necessary to move forward.
I also believe that if we as individuals can use the experiences in our lives to help others then it gives purpose to what we had to go through.

Linda

[BrokenBladder]

You're Welcome!!!!!

[Kathi49]

Mark,

You are welcome. And I am glad to hear that you were able to talk with her. As Linda said, it is a step in the right direction. I am just glad you spoke up. Hopefully, she will continue to keep getting better. :)

Linda,

Thanks. I know some of us here have issues with our spouses from time to time. I also know people handle things very differently. That's kind of why I hesitate to say too much...although I did yesterday. :eek: :o