Are they allowed to ask this on a job application???

[ErinENj]

At an interview last week at a daily newspaper, I was asked to fill out some paperwork, including an application and some other miscellaneous stuff. I still have no clue why, since I haven't heard anything back from them, but whatever. That's not the important part.

One of the forms had an interesting question on it. The top 1/4 of the page was all the basic information, name, phone, address, etc. But the bottom 3/4 of the page were three paragraphs with boxes to check next to them if you fit into that category. Now, two I can kind of see why they'd ask. One was if you're a veteran or a disabled veteran. Not sure if the disabled veteran is 100% kosher, but I'm not sure and could easily be wrong. The one that really bothered me was the first of the three listed (the above were two and three). It said "Disabled" and talked about if you're disabled and your disability has an effect on any major parts of your life and if you've suffered for an extended period of time. I don't remember it exactly, but it was completely and utterly biased.

I didn't check the box, because I didn't think it was neccessary. I could do the job, with or without my disability, and they have absolutely no right to ask me if it effects major areas of my life.

Am I wrong?? Isn't that illegal? Are they able to ask that? I thought that by asking that question, I have the ability to sue them, saying that I didn't get the job because I checked that little box. Everyone I've told about it has agreed that it is illegal for them to ask me such a question, but I just wonder if anyone else has seen it on a job application or anything of that nature. I just can't get over thinking that it is illegal for them to ask that of anyone. And that no one should be required to answer that type of question like it was required of me (on some areas of the application, they ask "demographic" questions like race, age, etc. and those are clearly marked as optional. Also on other areas of the forms, they ask about the veteran issue or even one area there was a question that asked if I was disabled in a way that would interfere with my ability to do the job. That I can understand a little bit. It's the question about the rest of my life that bother me.). Am I off on this?? :confused:

[CanRelate]

You are NOT off on this; the disabled questions are Illegal!!

Technically, they shouldn't have any questions about age OR sex!! Asking if over 16 (or whatever legal limit for certain occupations/environments...) is ok....asking if over anything else can end up being used discriminatorily

I went to a conference that touched on this.... I don't have the regulations/citations handy right now, otherwise I would link to the official stuff. I think the Department of Labor might have links which connect to the info I am thinking about.

The questions about "disabled in any way as to prevent performance of job" is a legitimate question........although the wording might be a problem.

Too many applications STILL have illegal questions; and some interviewers ask questions which seem ok, but.......are not actually legal. I personally don't see how one can be in a hiring position (large company or small) and not know the regulations which apply to their work!!!! :eek:

I don't know about collecting demographics on applications....since the demographics on the application you mention touch on some of the areas of discrimination. Sometimes, there is a veteran's preference in hiring, so I can see that question being ok.......However I am NOT A PROFESSIONAL IN THIS AREA.

Regards,
CanRelate

At an interview last week at a daily newspaper, I was asked to fill out some paperwork, including an application and some other miscellaneous stuff. I still have no clue why, since I haven't heard anything back from them, but whatever. That's not the important part.

One of the forms had an interesting question on it. The top 1/4 of the page was all the basic information, name, phone, address, etc. But the bottom 3/4 of the page were three paragraphs with boxes to check next to them if you fit into that category. Now, two I can kind of see why they'd ask. One was if you're a veteran or a disabled veteran. Not sure if the disabled veteran is 100% kosher, but I'm not sure and could easily be wrong. The one that really bothered me was the first of the three listed (the above were two and three). It said "Disabled" and talked about if you're disabled and your disability has an effect on any major parts of your life and if you've suffered for an extended period of time. I don't remember it exactly, but it was completely and utterly biased.

I didn't check the box, because I didn't think it was neccessary. I could do the job, with or without my disability, and they have absolutely no right to ask me if it effects major areas of my life.

Am I wrong?? Isn't that illegal? Are they able to ask that? I thought that by asking that question, I have the ability to sue them, saying that I didn't get the job because I checked that little box. Everyone I've told about it has agreed that it is illegal for them to ask me such a question, but I just wonder if anyone else has seen it on a job application or anything of that nature. I just can't get over thinking that it is illegal for them to ask that of anyone. And that no one should be required to answer that type of question like it was required of me (on some areas of the application, they ask "demographic" questions like race, age, etc. and those are clearly marked as optional. Also on other areas of the forms, they ask about the veteran issue or even one area there was a question that asked if I was disabled in a way that would interfere with my ability to do the job. That I can understand a little bit. It's the question about the rest of my life that bother me.). Am I off on this?? :confused:

[Mark N]

Erin, I am not sure what the limitations are but CanRelate is right about looking it up at the Dept of Labor or the EEOC site. There are many applications that aren't correct and have discriminatory questions on them.

[Kathi49]

Erin,

As a former federal employee I can tell you that the Veteran's questions are there for a reason. The Veteran's automatically receive "points" or preference. As well they should, in my opinion. It is based on a numbering system when hiring and I am not certain if they still use it or not...but I think they do. As for a Vet with disabilities, the government also hires a lot of them and probably asks the question so that there is reasonable accomodation for them. In other words I don't think the question is asked in a negative or discriminatory light at all. I might add...and maybe Mark N. can back me up. But if you were to see a Top Security questionnaire, you would die! :) The questions on those are unbelievable...but there are reasons for them. I can remember and I am still laughing, when I was dating a Major he was filling one of these out one day. One of the questions was...name six of your closest friends who know you well. He busted out laughing and said, "I don't even have six friends!" Anyway, beside the point I know. And I won't even go there on the FBI applications. OMG! I helped my daughter complete that one and it took us both weeks!

Okay enough of that...

I do think the disability questions are legal though...just my own opinion. I am just not sure about it in the private sector though. I believe it is as canrelate said...it is all in the wording. The key is...they can't use anything to discriminate against you...that is where it is illegal. But how do you prove it...ya know?

If it were me though, and this is just me, I WOULD answer those questions. I just know that any falsification on your application can come back and slap you in the face or come back to haunt you. It NEVER happened to me but I ALWAYS answered any and all of the questions. If I were rehired today, I would probably be asked those disability and/or health questions, and I would have to disclose them. And again, I am just speaking from the Federal standpoint. I also know that since 9/11 it is taking MONTHS for a new hire to clear security. So...they are checking...and I mean EVERYTHING...even driving records and/or past tickets. And, I would think, and just guessing here, that by leaving something blank just sends them a red flag and might even cause them to ask you things point blank. All I am really saying is just be honest unless you really feel that it is an illegal question.

I would check on the DOL or EEOC websites though. Or, you could even call and tell them about your concerns, etc.

[mcdan]

I do recall for federal jobs or Govmt positions usually a disabled VET will get preference ....

[suede]

I don't know about legal or not, but as Kathi mentioned about the goverment getting points or something for hiring vets or disabled vets.

I do know that in many of the private companies that I worked for through out the years that they got some kind of Federal benifit or tax deduction(something ) for every person that they hired with a disability.

Linda

[CanRelate]

Kathi makes some good points about security clearances and preferences. And federal and military being a different animal in many cases. Many of these "borderline-seeming" questions are notated with why they are being asked (preferences, etc.) on the government applications so it is to the applicant's advantage to disclose in many cases.

My experience (before 9/11) was that intense background process began after they put you into the strong candidate pile....kind of like advancing to the next level in the process. And of course, security is critical in the performance of some (especially federal or interacting with federal) jobs. These advanced clearances are labor and dollar intensive, so it seems wasteful to begin the process on the ENTIRE pool of applicants. I remember being one of those questioned when my on-site landlord back then was looking for a promotion within Customs. As Kathi said, an hilarious process! The other renter and I teased what we were going to say to the security investigators.....made for much levity in the house....in the end we gave serious answers, and he got the promotion since his history was mostly clean, and he was totally honest and upfront about embarrassing past (inhaling 6 times, and a paternity suit which was ugly and in the courts... all in the far past).

My dad applied for some part-time FEMA work recently, and the disability questions were on a separate sheet, and even clearly marked that it was a self disclosure, so optional to some extent. I think the checklist they provided outlining the application process indicated that these advanced requests/forms were given at the interview..... yet he got them all in the mail!! The veteran's questions were on the main application form, and did not mention disability. My gut is more suspect of, say, a local newspaper asking anything beyond "do you have a disability which would prevent you from performing the requirements of the job..." type of question. This type of question can be truthfully answered by those with disabilities as a NO. If isn't whether we have disability; it is does it prevent full performance. THis is a part memory/part gut answer on my part.

I also know a small business owner who has been in business for 9 years, and employed some developmentally disabled workers. Once both eventually left, she did not replace them with other developmentally disabled workers. She is "home occupation" meaning she can work out of residential legally under zoning regulations....as long as she has under a certain number of employees (and some other stipulations). Her current staff are all needed to be serious multi-taskers in terms of the functions they can perform and slide in and out of as needed. (She didn't fire her DD workers, by the way....) I remember seeing something in IRS forms where that "perk" (if you will) is not the same as it was in the past, and perhaps is not available tax-wise any more, phased out. Again, this is from my recollection:rolleyes: so you would do well to look at IRS business area, and Department of Labor, and EEOC to confirm all our answers, to the extent that you need more authorative information on the issues in your situation.

Thanks for posting this thread.....it is an important topic to be aware of and investigate, in general and specifically as some of us wish to return (if possible) to some type employment.

Regards,
CanRelate

[Kathi49]

Or, as my husband said earlier...check with LEGAL! And whatever that constitutes; could be an attorney, or the legal department of the company. I know the agency I worked for did have a legal department.

And CanRelate...I CAN relate LOL! And Erin just for you...

When completing my daughter's FBI application she was asked if she had any relatives that had traveled to foreign countries to work...something to that effect anyway. Well, yes she had. I think I told you before that her aunt is a very well known reporter. But...we had to get a special statement from her explaining everything she had done. Plus, any and all information on everyone she had ever lived with and on and on and on it went. That's why I said it took weeks to complete. My daughter was working and researching one end of it while I was plugging it in...just to get it all completed asap! Anyway, she ended up passing security with flying colors. And I believe it has helped with the job she has now even though she had to have a background check done with them too. But at least she is in the system so to speak. It didn't take long for her to get cleared which is why I say that.

But, again, as for the private sector...I am just unsure. I see places where it says it is legal and than I see others that say it is not. I guess it is all in the wording. And my gut reaction is surely these companies or HR departments won't ask questions if they thought they knew they were illegal. But I could be very wrong too.

[Pharmacist.steve]

Most of the "delicate questions" - age - kids - pregnant - married - disability accommodations... etc .. etc CANNOT be asked until AFTER the OFFER OF THE JOB IS MADE

[Bobbi]

I just asked my boss; the answer is no - not in California and not for the type of job you're seeking, Erin. It cannot be asked on a job application the same as one cannot be asked about race or age, since those things can be used by some meanies as a premise for discrimination and "setting aside" an application.

You need check with your state's EED or employment office; laws vary from state-to-state and California, from what I'm told, "is not employer-friendly but applicant-friendly."

If asked, leave it blank. The reason is: Some will latch onto whatever to discriminate and "dismiss" the application.

A potential employer, however, can ask certain questions during pre-hiring stages of the interview process such as: Based on the job description, is there anything you can think of that would mean you cannot perform what the job requires? (Not the exact wording but to that effect, and for the purpose of making reasonable accommodations.)

If, like me, you show up for an interview with a cane or wheelchair, it will be rather apparent that you have some type of physical condition (whether temporary or permanent).

In that situation, it is legal for a prospective employer to ask about your condition because it is visible to the interviewer.


P.S.: I didn't see Steve's response until after I posted; his understanding is the same as was relayed to me this morning. As well, my boss said this, and it is only opinion: If a disabled person goes for an interview and that first interview lasts for less than 30 minutes, the person is being discriminated against and isn't going to be hired. A "power interview" (done in mass numbers like at a job fair) is the type that is done fast and screening is done quickly (and not to discriminate against any one person; it's just rapid screening).

[DiMarie]

Most of the "delicate questions" - age - kids - pregnant - married - disability accommodations... etc .. etc CANNOT be asked until AFTER the OFFER OF THE JOB IS MADE


Web site for the ADA Erin
http://lawzilla.com/content/fed-emp-403.shtml

ALSO:
* May an employer ask applicants about their lawful drug use?

No, if the question is likely to elicit information about disability.
Employers should know that many questions about current or prior lawful
drug use are likely to elicit information about a disability, and are
therefore impermissible at the pre-offer stage. For example, questions
like, "What medications are you currently taking?" or "Have you ever
taken AZT?" certainly elicit information about whether an applicant has
a disability.

However, some innocuous questions about lawful drug use are not likely
to elicit information about disability.

Example: During her interview, an applicant volunteers to the
interviewer that she is coughing and wheezing because her allergies are
acting up as a result of pollen in the air. The interviewer, who also
has allergies, tells the applicant that he finds "Lemebreathe" (an over-
the-counter antihistamine) to be effective, and asks the applicant if
she has tried it. There are many reasons why someone might have tried
"Lemebreathe" which have nothing to do with disability. Therefore, this
question is not likely to elicit information about a disability.

* May an employer ask applicants about their lawful drug use if the
employer is administering a test for illegal use of drugs?

Yes, if an applicant tests positive for illegal drug use. In that case,
the employer may validate the test results by asking about lawful drug
use or possible explanations for the positive result other than the
illegal use of drugs.

Example: If an applicant tests positive for use of a controlled
substance, the employer may lawfully ask questions such as, "What
medications have you taken that might have resulted in this positive
test result? Are you taking this medication under a lawful
prescription?"

* May an employer ask applicants about their prior illegal drug use?

Yes, provided that the particular question is not likely to elicit
information about a disability. It is important to remember that past
addiction to illegal drugs or controlled substances is a covered
disability under the ADA (as long as the person is not a current illegal
drug user), but past casual use is not a covered disability. Therefore,
the question is fine as long as it does not go to past drug addiction.

Example: An employer may ask, "Have you ever used illegal drugs?" "When
is the last time you used illegal drugs?" or "Have you used illegal
drugs in the last six months?" These questions are not likely to tell
the employer anything about whether the applicant was addicted to drugs.

However, questions that ask how much the applicant used drugs in the
past are likely to elicit information about whether the applicant was a
past drug addict. These questions are therefore impermissible at the
pre-offer stage.

Example: At the pre-offer stage, an employer may not ask an applicant
questions such as, "How often did you use illegal drugs in the past?"
"Have you ever been addicted to drugs?" "Have you ever been treated for
drug addiction?" or "Have you ever been treated for drug abuse?"

* May an employer ask applicants about their drinking habits?

Yes, unless the particular question is likely to elicit information
about alcoholism, which is a disability. An employer may ask an
applicant whether s/he drinks alcohol, or whether s/he has been arrested
for driving under the influence, because these questions do not reveal
whether someone has alcoholism. However, questions asking how much
alcohol an applicant drinks or whether s/he has participated in an
alcohol rehabilitation program are likely to elicit information about
whether the applicant has alcoholism.

* May an employer ask applicants to "self-identify" as individuals with
disabilities for purposes of the employer's affirmative action program?

Yes. An employer may invite applicants to voluntarily self-identify for
purposes of the employer's affirmative action program if:

* the employer is undertaking affirmative action because of a federal,
state, or local law (including a veterans' preference law) that requires
affirmative action for individuals with disabilities (that is, the law
requires some action to be taken on behalf of such individuals); or

* the employer is voluntarily using the information to benefit
individuals with disabilities.

Employers should remember that state or local laws sometimes permit or
encourage affirmative action. In those cases, an employer may invite
voluntary self-identification only if the employer uses the information
to benefit individuals with disabilities.

* Are there any special steps an employer should take if it asks
applicants to "self-identify" for purposes of the employer's affirmative
action program?

Yes. If the employer invites applicants to voluntarily self-identify in
connection with providing affirmative action, the employer must do the
following:

* state clearly on any written questionnaire, or state clearly orally
(if no written questionnaire is used), that the information requested is
used solely in connection with its affirmative action obligations or
efforts; and

* state clearly that the information is being requested on a voluntary
basis, that it will be kept confidential in accordance with the ADA,
that refusal to provide it will not subject the applicant to any adverse
treatment, and that it will be used only in accordance with the ADA. In
order to ensure that the self-identification information is kept
confidential, the information must be on a form that is kept separate
from the application.

* May an employer ask third parties questions it could not ask the
applicant directly?

No. An employer may not ask a third party (such as a service that
provides information about workers' compensation claims, a state agency,
or an applicant's friends, family, or former employers) any questions
that it could not directly ask the applicant.

[CanRelate]

DiMarie:

Nice synopsis in the link you provided.

I noticed two things:
---- The article was 1995 so HIPPA rules might alter some of the personnel file stuff.

---- The second thing is that article says to check EEOC site directly for updates. It is important that readers here notice that and do so to get the most up-to-date regulations.

All in all, it seemed to track the posts of most here......we are quite the "Brainy" ;) group here.....and resourceful/good at research.

Regards,
CanRelate




Web site for the ADA Erin
http://lawzilla.com/content/fed-emp-403.shtml

.......edited for length...see original post for full response....

[algosdoc]

From http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/employmt.htm

Q. When can an employer ask an applicant to "self-identify" as having a disability?
A. Federal contractors and subcontractors who are covered by the affirmative action requirements of section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 may invite individuals with disabilities to identify themselves on a job application form or by other pre-employment inquiry, to satisfy the section 503 affirmative action requirements. Employers who request such information must observe section 503 requirements regarding the manner in which such information is requested and used, and the procedures for maintaining such information as a separate, confidential record, apart from regular personnel records.

A pre-employment inquiry about a disability is allowed if required by another Federal law or regulation such as those applicable to disabled veterans and veterans of the Vietnam era. Pre-employment inquiries about disabilities may be necessary under such laws to identify applicants or clients with disabilities in order to provide them with required special services.

Q. What limitations does the ADA impose on medical examinations and inquiries about disability?

A. An employer may not ask or require a job applicant to take a medical examination before making a job offer. It cannot make any pre-employment inquiry about a disability or the nature or severity of a disability. An employer may, however, ask questions about the ability to perform specific job functions and may, with certain limitations, ask an individual with a disability to describe or demonstrate how s/he would perform these functions.

An employer may condition a job offer on the satisfactory result of a post-offer medical examination or medical inquiry if this is required of all entering employees in the same job category. A post-offer examination or inquiry does not have to be job-related and consistent with business necessity.

However, if an individual is not hired because a post-offer medical examination or inquiry reveals a disability, the reason(s) for not hiring must be job-related and consistent with business necessity. The employer also must show that no reasonable accommodation was available that would enable the individual to perform the essential job functions, or that accommodation would impose an undue hardship. A post-offer medical examination may disqualify an individual if the employer can demonstrate that the individual would pose a "direct threat" in the workplace (i.e., a significant risk of substantial harm to the health or safety of the individual or others) that cannot be eliminated or reduced below the oedirect threat* level through reasonable accommodation. Such a disqualification is job-related and consistent with business necessity. A post-offer medical examination may not disqualify an individual with a disability who is currently able to perform essential job functions because of speculation that the disability may cause a risk of future injury.

After a person starts work, a medical examination or inquiry of an employee must be job-related and consistent with business necessity. Employers may conduct employee medical examinations where there is evidence of a job performance or safety problem, examinations required by other Federal laws, examinations to determine current oefitness* to perform a particular job, and voluntary examinations that are part of employee health programs.

Information from all medical examinations and inquiries must be kept apart from general personnel files as a separate, confidential medical record, available only under limited conditions.

Tests for illegal use of drugs are not medical examinations under the ADA and are not subject to the restrictions of such examinations.

[Bobbi]

Erin, a thought that came to mind (and I am, in no stretch of thinking trying to rationalize the Q.-check box you saw):

Is it possible that the application was simply, way out-of-date?

Sometimes, and by a total mistake, some times older materials might be used during interviews. And, the only way a company becomes aware is by people such as yourself, saying: Hey, this isn't right.

I thought of this because, after a recent vaca. trip where I could not get into businesses, no matter how I might try, I was given quite a bit of a freebie education, which I did appreciate (from a lawyer whom represents disabled).

I am not saying that the paper was not aware of what it asked, only: Some times people make mistakes and pull from older files that should have been discarded and were meant to be but... someone made a boo boo.

Are you wanting to sue?

Personally, when I've spoken with attys., that has never, ever been a goal of mine. About the ADA stuff on my vaca? I only wanted to bring it to some agency's attention that disabled cannot get into some businesses; it's not mind over matter. It is just impossible.

With starting out on a career course, suing? Likely it would be a class action and then? the resulting effect? You won't be hired by a newspaper. Your name will carry a scarlet letter. You don't want to hurt yourself. That, again, is not making any excuse for what you were asked. It's just the reality.

A negotiated settlement from a class action will result in: still looking for employment but carting baggage that employers dare not ever mention to you (for fear of also being sued) but being used as a "silent" reasoning for not hiring.

If an interviewer were asking for sexual favors, I'd rush my a$$ to Fair Employment and file a complaint.

I'd want to rise above the "Q" over disability also. That is a state of mind - crippling themselves by the constraints of their thinking.

If you want to find yourself entangled in litigation, I wish you luck, but... my focus would be on finding a company with an open mind and a position that has room for growth.

I don't think anyone else has stated as I have, so... I have.

You're young, and don't need excess baggage.

[Kathi49]

Thanks for clearing that up doc. :)

[DiMarie]

Seems we are danged if we do and danged if we don;t identify.

If we identify, our potential employer may receive benefits for hiring us.But, if he thinks we have issues why hire and how could we prove that is why they didn;t hire.

Then if we don;t identify, we miss on accomadations that could be offered. Also, for example if you are bipolar and go through a time of problem, if you had self identified you are protected.
We have a woman near us in PA that did not identify as bipolar prior to hire, missed days and then the employer fired her...she is still fighting them years later.

I did not, and do not identify myself. I seek only hours and work sedentary no computer work to say of that will cause me flares. I have Dragon prefered, and ;laptop too. Omnipage, OCR recognitions software for forms I use.

Just thinking out loud,
Di

[ErinENj]

Let me start by saying that, No, there's no thought of a lawsuit. I was just using the example that someone easily could bring this company up on a discrimination lawsuit. I have absolutely no intention to sue this company. I was just really surprised to see this on an application form, filled out before I was even hired or honestly, I think, before I was really even seriously considerd by the company for the position.

I didn't think they could ask that in the way they asked it. It was not marked as "optional" or even "you should fill this out but if you don't feel comfortable doing so, you can opt not to. It was right there, in the midst of all of these forms, and it was obviously a form made up to ask that specific question and that question only. And, Bobbi, nope, it was most definately a newer form. It had a date on the bottom of the form, I think something like 10/05, to show the last time the form was updated, so that form has been looked at and edited in the past few years since the ADA and anti-discriminatory laws were passed. That's why it was doubly surprising, because obviously someone looked at that and actually thought it was completely kosher to ask that question.

I just find it beyond amazing that they can ask the question and no one raises issue with it. It seems like every idiot, especially those invovled in human resources and hiring, etc, knows that you can't ask questions about disabilities, sexual preference, and race. I can see if it is optional for informative purposes, etc, and especially for the affirmative action (I wouldn't entirely mind being hired for the AA laws/ratios, but I would hope that it would turn from the AA into 'she's really talented and can really do this job and aren't we glad we hired her because she really knows what she's doing' situation.) BUT, say that on the form. Make it clear. Show me that this isn't going to be held against me if I do check it off.

My biggest concern is actually checking off that box and then having someone assume that since I am disabled, I can't do the job. Reporting isn't all sitting behind a desk making phone calls. It's a somewhat physical job. You have to get out there, go to the car accident, fire, or bake sale (I covered one as a try-out situation for a paper I interviewed for last week. It came out okay, but made two stupid, idiotic mistakes, and I'm terrified that it completely screwed me. Because of my computer issues, all of the work I had done was gone because I couldn't access it. So I had to write it all again, and in a short period of time because I was hoping my computer would start working again. I kept trying and trying, focusing on getting my computer running so I could get it off of there, and ended up on Sunday running around trying to get it done at the last minute, and made two stupid mistakes because of it. I don't know how to explain that to the editor, so I'm afraid I completely screwed up the chances of getting the job. And it was my dream job too. I have another interview on Friday with another paper, but as I learned more about the job, I really don't think it is even close to being right for me. I dunno. I just want a job where I can be content and not completely kill msyself trying to do it.) get on scene to see it with your own eyes in order to write strongly and competently and to be able to communicate to your readers about the incident in a way that they can see it when they read it. Descriptive writing. So I can see, to a certain extent, them double checking to make sure you can be depended upon to get out there and do the job so that you can cover the story appropriately. There's no "But I'm in a lot of pain right now". But I refuse to let that stop me. If I'm hurting, yeah, that's going to suck, but I'm still going to do my job. It never stopped me in school, so it won't stop me in work.

I was just really surprised by that. I'm kinda glad I posted this simply because it seems to have gotten some great reactions and I know I've learned a lot more about what they can and can't ask or do on an application or in an interview. Thank you so much everyone for such a fantastic response and all of the work you put into your posts!! I really do appreciate it! I'm actually going to print this out so I have it for reference, and am working on getting through all of the sites you posted or recommended so I have them if needed in the future!

Now here's an issue I'm wrestling with that's actually tied right into this. I'm having some real issues with my pain, as you know from my absence as of late. So I need to have an epidural done before I can really start working. As the majority of you know, an epidural means two weeks of recovery. I take those two weeks very seriously, since I know it makes a big difference for me and for how long the shots last. I had one the last week of August last year before school started. But my best and oldest college friend's wedding was the next week. I had to have the shot done and I wouldn't have missed the wedding if I had to go in a wheelchair with my mother. So I only had a week to recover from the shot. I took the week, and did as little as possible for that time. Then I went to the wedding and it really kicked my butt because the hotel was the second worse roach-motel I had every seen where the beds were like lying on a sheet of plywood, and I think the plywood would probably had more give than this bed.

ANYWAYS.... on to the point...

So those beds completely ruined any hopes for the shot working in time for the start of school the next week. And that shot didn't last me the entire semester like they usually do. Most of the time, the one in the fall would last me to at least the beginning of the spring semester, but I would get one in the winter because I knew it'd run out in the midst of the semester when taking two weeks off wasn't an option.

I need two weeks for this shot to be the most effective it can be. Here's the problem. Hypothetically speaking, say I get offered a job next week. What do I tell them?? I have an epidural scheduled for the 20th, so that's like 12 days just until I can get the shot, and then another two weeks to recover. So that's nearly a month before I can start working. How do I explain that? I was thinking of saying something like "I have to have a very minor spinal procedure done with two weeks of recovery, but I'm more than happy to work from home during that time, making phone calls, all of that, writing stories, etc. I just can't come into an office and work all day. Then after those two weeks, I'm all your's." But how do I do that without making it seem like I have CP? After I'm offered the job, should I give the hire-er some details about my back, so he/she knows and it doesn't come as a surprise if my back goes out one day and I need some time off? Do I have to explain at all? Should I play it as a 'need to know' basis? How do I explain that I need a month before I can start working? But keep in mind, this is all hypothetical. I don't have anything that even seems close to a job offer, but two possibilities as distant as they may be.

How do I talk about this? I don't want to lie to them. I don't want to have to lie and not tell them about my back. I'm not ashamed of it. And I know that I will not allow it to have any type of major effect on my job. But I don't know how to make them believe that. They're going to notice that something it wrong with me. I have days like today where I just can't stop sweating. I was at my grandma's house for dinner with my grandmother's side of the family to talk about the funeral and viewing tomorrow and Thursday (my great-aunt died on Friday. I haven't seen her in years since she moved to Wisconsin to be with her daughter, who I've only met three or four times in my life, so it's kind of hard. She didn't even get to know that I graduated or anything like that, so I kind of wish I had had some time to talk to her, as I know the rest of my family does.) and I was drenched. I brought two washcloths with me, which I use kind of as sweat-rags to mop up my face to make sure it doesn't start pouring off of me, and both of them were soaked within 45 minutes. I just couldn't stop sweating until I came home and laid down for awhile with my room's air conditioner set at 68 degrees. And that's not all that unusual. It's very rare to have it that obscenely bad (I've never had it that bad in an AC'd house when I really wasn't doing anything all that active.) and it was actually kind of scary because I'd never had that happen before. But I do sweat from the pain. And it's obvious. There's no hiding it. So someone's gonna notice. What do I do?

I guess what I'm asking is, when is it time to tell something and when is it time to keep my mouth shut? How much do I reveal? All at once or as needed? I don't want them to think that I'm lying to them or that I've been withholding something they need to know from them. I haven't had a job since this all started nearly five years ago, so I haven't ever had to deal with these issues. How do I go about working with CP?

[GardeniaGirl]

Hi Erin - I am not going to pretend I am any type of expert on this stuff - but I will just share what I did when I was in a similar situation.

I applied for a 20-hour per week job in my field in 2000. I had severe fatigue for almost 4 years plus a lot of headaches, joint pain, etc. I was still undiagnosed and without any good medications at that time.

I didn't say anything about my health in the interview or when I was hired.

I decided I would just see if I could handle the workload and hours and if I reached a point where I couldn't, I would bring it up with my employer at that time. The worst case scenario I figured was they would fire me or I would quit, so I decided to take the risk and accept the job.

I ended up making it 3 more years until I reached a point where I needed some accommodations in order to do the job duties.

I hired an employment attorney to consult with for a few hours before I approached my employer, so I was in a good position to know what was reasonable and what was not, legally.

One of the key things I learned about disability accommodations is that the employer is allowed to define the "core" job responsibilities. If a person cannot perform the core responsibilities, then the employer is not obligated to accommodate him or her.

But, if the employee could perform the core responsibilities with accommodations, then the employer will need to attempt to provide those.

Back in 2003, I was in a different position than I am now, but a couple of the accommodations they were able to make me were that I did not have to carry my files with me to off-site locations (I could leave them at the office and work on them there), and I would only have to work in one location per day rather than 2. This cut down on driving and physical exertion.

In that position, those were the only changes they could reasonably make. They helped, but eventually they weren't enough, and eventually I had to take a totally different position because I could not handle the demands of the one I got hired for.

My current position has "easier" core job functions. I can complete the core functions and work from home as needed, as much of my work just involves a computer and phone. I can meet core responsibilities and set my own hours.

I think you should look very closely at the core responsibilities and then see if you think you can handle those.

Or, what reasonable accommodations could be made that would allow you to complete them?

I went through a phase at work where I worked a longer day but I spent one hour in the afternoon laying on a couch for a nap. It meant I stayed later, but I could get all my work done - I just needed a long break with a couch in order to do it.

Here is an excellent resource for ideas for job accommodations for various disabilites:

http://www.jan.wvu.edu/soar/disabilities.html


It says they offer a free consulting service to help people with accommodation issues:

http://www.jan.wvu.edu/ (http://www.jan.wvu.edu/)


hopefully that is helpful - just wanted to give you a picture of how it worked for me.

I think its great that you are educating yourself and becoming informed - I think that is the best way to approach this topic, personally. The more you know, the more options you will have.

Good luck!

[Bobbi]

I do think there is so much we all encounter on daily basis. Who - in their "right mind" - would even want to deal with a snippet of what we have to face and resolve? It's not as if disabled are looking for some "easy street," but I would hope we are given fair review of our applications. It's also that we have to reach the point of someone wanting to conduct the interviews.

If filling out an application and it is asking for info that just is not setting right, take the application home. Photocopy that baby and share it with boards that do oversight. C'mon: If it does not feel right, trust those feelings. Those feelings are often right on target.

My pref. is not suing just for suing and some lawyer getting off on it; it is to effect lasting change... and it's not an easy process. Been there, done that.

You don't have to think of some larger issues: But not let people walk on you. Keep a copy of the app. It's sad that you were even asked, but, thank goodness you were not also asked to perform sexual favors. I am not discounting what you faced, only... keep records.

Life? At times? It just simply bites.

Being disabled? Prove oneself. Being blonde (and not out of a box)? Prove yourself even more.

I am sorry for what you have experienced. I anticipate it will take around 40 more years before people will "truly" see through their own superficial deficits.

Welcome to the hell so many have lived through.

P.S.: Because I cannot walk into an inteview setting and not appear visually as if not a prob. in the world, I have had to address my health right away. I say a little as possible, but, if more is asked, I have been quite open about it. (HR - after all is said and done - will have its hands on everything anyway with my okay.) My goal has always been present an iron-clad portfolio and sell myself based on ability not disability. I've had to "overwork" to assure that I would not be tossed aside for some other applicant. It's: "Do what one has to do and nail it." It is a ton of work and effort and never letting on to any sign of weakness. We have to prove ourselves. Unfair? Maybe but... when someone takes confidence in us, we ain't gonna disappoint. Just hold up and do what we assure we can. It isn't easy, I know that, but don't sell yourself short.

I just thought of another thing: While in college, Erin, I interviewed the "man" whom was responsible for hiring personnel for the campus. He was so gracious about elaborating on the applicant review steps taken. It was a "blind" process. It was also to lessen any potential for unwitting discrimination: There were no questions about age, race, orientiation, marital status, disability. What he was seeking? Qualified applicants. It was a "fair" process of review.

[Mark N]

Erin, there are no absolute rules about some of these questions and you are going to have to work out how you answer them. Just don't do anything that the company can come back and say you lied on the application and fire you over it. I dealt with extreme pain and surgeries every three years but didn't see myself as disabled so I didn't mark the box, why? I didn't ask for any accomidations and knew I would make the accomidations not the school district hiring me. I was able to do this for 15 years but during face to face interviews if the question came up I would talk about my pain and how it impacted me. I didn't let it impact my job performance and would deal with the consequences at home on my own time. It wasn't until the last job where my pain was a big enough problem that I claimed I was disabled. The school really wanted me because of my track record and I wanted to be up front about the chance they were taking. When I could only work for 1.5 years before going out on disability I felt comfortable because I could live with the disclosure I made.

To sum it up, if your pain isn't going to interfere any more than an average person taking sick days then you are not disabled under the law and can choose not to check the box. If on the other hand, your pain does interfere and you don't check it off you open yourself up to being fired for lying on your application. Decisions like this are the work world choices you are going to have to make. You need to been sure of your ethos that you can live by and let it guide you in your decisions. We always have to live with the consequences of our choices. I know I missed out on coaching jobs because I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear 'what a great place it was to work or we will win a championship in three years' [even though I had already coached my previous teams to state championships]. I couldn't tell them things I couldn't guarantee so I would talk about what I would do about the way I treat players, programs I put in to emphasize academics. etc. You will lose some jobs by sticking with your ethos but you will love the jobs you get by standing by your ethos. You will gain experience and these things will get easier but if you are true to your beliefs then you will always be able to live with yourself.

[Kathi49]

I echo your sentiments Mark.

Erin,

I have no doubt in my mind that you are motivated to work and work hard. :) But what I picked up on was when you said you needed an ESI and then be off for two weeks....and then...would be "all theirs". Nothing wrong with saying that. But...remember...chances are you will need further procedures, still take meds and probably still have ongoing pain. I would really be upfront with it all personally. I was like Mark and dealt with it...not as long as he did though. But long enough. And I was honest and upfront from the get go as to what was happening. But...I also was already in the position. So, I know you are kind of between a rock and a hard place right now in finding a job. Even so, I would not lie or rather, hide anything. I am trying to put myself in your shoes and since I have the CP issues, I know I would disclose it. I would just hate for something to come back and haunt me later knowing that I would probably have to miss work for various procedures and appointments. And I know if I were advising my own daughter and if she were in the same shape as you or I, I WOULD recommend that she let an employer know. The thing is...and probably like most everyone, we can have bad days or good days. But when the bad days hit I can just about guarantee an employer is going to want to know what the issues are. And remember too...sometimes they ask for doctor's statements.

And Mark has a great point about "ethos". It's a fact! And who knows, maybe a potential employer will appreciate you much more for being honest. I know mine did when this hit me and they worked with me a great deal and even donating leave which was very nice. And, this is kind of beside the point really...but I remember the day I just finally broke down and told them all...I couldn't do it anymore. They knew of my conditions...they just didn't know how severe the pain was because I desperately tried to hide it. But...that's precisely when they all rallied behind me. So, with their help...I managed...at least for another two-three years. But I also know if I had called in sick time and time again with no excuse other than I was sick, there would have been all heck to pay. So, yep, I think honesty is critical and only fair to the employer and yourself.

It is all up to you of course. But as Mark said...hold true to your own beliefs and I really think you will be much better off. :)