cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin(vb12)

[bigdrig840]

umm i hav vitamin b-12 but its cyanocobalamin sublingual 30seconds under the tongue and swallow, nature's bounty, but its not methylcobalamin. is there much of a difference? i take it for myoclonus, as well as depression and stress.

[rose]

Yes, there's a big difference. The methylcobalamin is ready for the body to use. And there has been research showing that some people are helped tremendously even though they don't have an ordinary B12 deficiency.

The cyanocobalamin must be converted by your body into a smaller amount of methylcobalamin before it can be used. People who are in countries where it is not available will likely benefit from cyanocobalamin. But those who can get methylcobalamin will probably want the best.

http://roseannster.googlepages.com/home


rose

[bigdrig840]

oh and where can i get this methylcobalamin? ive been looking all over the web at cvs.com, at my local cvs, and even drugstore.com all have cyancobalamin but not methylcobalamin. I also have to be wary about bacteria, as I am very sensitive towards mold. so I don't want to end up with eosinophilia, which people have gotten thru taking L-trytophan and other natural substances awhile ago. dont even get me started on mold, as my cellar gets water where my laundry machines are.

[glenntaj]

--have a brand or two of methylcobalamin.

Try looking at:

www.iherb.com
www.swansonvitamins.com
www.vitacost.com

--to start.

[bigdrig840]

rose hav u ever had anyone hav any bad side effects to cyanco instead of methyl? i mean i hear all the crazy side effects that people hav had with methyl, but i never mentioned them taking cyanoco and having problems

[rose]

Side effects with cyanocobalamin are very rare, and the better medical references have no problem stating that it is safe.

Occasionally with any type there might be acne, again very rare, and it appears that another nutrient is in short supply while the body is using all to the max for repair work.

Also, very rarely someone is sensitive to another ingredient in the cyanocobalamin preparation.

There used to be a concern about cyanocobalamin use by people with Leber's. But that concern seems to have abated.

In my experience, and of course after years of reading medical literature regarding B12 for years, it appears that when people have an unpleasant reaction to methylcobalamin they are having a positive response, but repairs can be quicker in some cases with the larger dose and so the repair process can be frightening in some cases. Temporary worsening of symptoms does not mean that the body isn't reacting in a positive way. Temporary worsening of symptoms often comes before huge improvement.

One reason for temporary worsening of symptoms when the body is reparing: the central nervous system has to relearn how to interpret the changed signals sent by improving nerves.

rose

[bigdrig840]

rose hav u ever had anyone hav any bad side effects to cyanco instead of methyl? i mean i hear all the crazy side effects that people hav had with methyl, but i never mentioned them taking cyanoco and having problems

[rose]

SiSide effects with cyanocobalamin are very rare, and the better medical references have no problem stating that it is safe.

Occasionally with any type there might be acne, again very rare, and it appears that another nutrient is in short supply while the body is using all to the max for repair work.

Also, very rarely someone is sensitive to another ingredient in the cyanocobalamin preparation.

There used to be a concern about cyanocobalamin use by people with Leber's. But that concern seems to have abated.

In my experience, and of course after years of reading medical literature regarding B12 for years, it appears that when people have an unpleasant reaction to methylcobalamin they are having a positive response, but repairs can be quicker in some cases with the larger dose and so the repair process can be frightening in some cases. Temporary worsening of symptoms does not mean that the body isn't reacting in a positive way. Temporary worsening of symptoms often comes before huge improvement.

One reason for temporary worsening of symptoms when the body is reparing: the central nervous system has to relearn how to interpret the changed signals sent by improving nerves.

rose

I have not. A very few I know have, but nothing serious as far as I know.

rose

[Hege]

Has anybody already used Wonderlabs B12 product? Any opinion, experience?
http://www.wonderlabs.com/sublingual-b12/index.html

[rose]

I wouldn't pay that price for a product that contains the old type of B6 (useless to many).

rose

[Hege]

Hello Rose and everyone else!

I am glad to found this site, because I have read many interesting and important informations.
I would like to write down my problems, trust in that, you could help me.

My story has started at about 6 years ago.

One day I have felt tingling sensition horizontally on the middle of my forehead. That time I didn't care really, I thought it will stop. Not.
First time, doctors thought it was inflammation of the frontal sinus. My head was examined by x-ray minimum two times. Nothing.
I was seen by three neurologist. One of them said that it is only paralysis and it was caused by stress and she just smiled . After that I was an MRI. Negative. I had allergy test, too. Negative. It was about 3 yeary ago.

Later I felt new things besides tingling. For example: numness in my tounge and cheek, tingling in my left hand, arm and foot and muscle twitching above my eyebrows. I started to care about these things again about 1 year ago. I mean, try to find what it could cause these symptoms.

Because of that "normal" doctors couldn't say anything to my symptoms I turned to non-medical practitioners.
They said so many things and I paid for everything belived in that it is the solution. ( Homeopathy, Bach-flower therapy, Bemer SLT, about for 5 months I watch what I eat, chiropractor ). Nothing. I didn't stop searching... About 2 months ago I have read about B12 deficiency or B12 absorption problem. I was so happy. It may my problem - I thought. I still believe in it.
I have taken sublingual cyanocobalamin and B-complex for 5 weeks. I don't feel anything. Not better not worse. I read about methylcobalamin. I tried to buy, but I didn't find anywhere in my country. So I have ordered from abroad and now I wait for it. I believe in that it will be the solution for my problems.

If anybody has any opinion, comment I will be happy.


Thank you.

[theresej]

Hege - did you get your methylcobalamin?

If you haven't started taking it yet, have your B12 level checked before you start.

But in addition it is important to know what your homocysteine and MMA levels are as these can provide a baseline for you.

The MMA is specific to B12, but the homocysteine is a very important value to know, as elevated homocysteine can wreck havoc on your cardiovacular system among other things, so it is really the more valuable of the two tests IMHO.

If your homocysteine is high, it refelcts a problem somewhere in the utilization of 3 B vitamins, B12, Folic Acid, and/or B6.

Homocysteine needs to be "methylated" - this is where the methylcobalamin and folic acid come in, or it needs to be "transulfated" - this is where the B6 comes in.

The most common problem in regards to elevated homocysteine is with the B12 in its methylcobalamin form.

If homocysteine is elevated in the presence of a normal B12, and it comes down with taking the methyB12, you can be sure you have a functional deficiency where your body is unable to convert the cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin, or is unable to utilize the methylcobalamin well, and the mega doses of methycoabalamin overcome this.

In my case, we didn't check the MMA before supplementation.

But my homocysteine and B12 and B6 had been checked after a neurological event (I had to ask for the B12 and B6 to be checked).

My homocysteine was high, my B12 in the upper range of normal, and my B6 was high. Nothing really indcated a B12 deficiency except an unexplained reason for my homocysteine being elevated. that was the summer of 06.

Taking usual B12 supplements (cyanocobalamin), folic acid and B6 did not budge my homocysteine much.

A month ago I discovered I should be looking at taking mega doses of methylcobalamin sublingually.

Within a week of starting methylcobalamin sublingals 6,000 mcg/day, my homocysteine dropped suddenly to within the normal ranage.

This demonstrated that even though my B12 was well within normal limits, my body wasn't converting the cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin well.

My symptoms are aslo improving. But since my symptoms were hard for doctors to classify, witha tendency to say it is "anxiety" or in my head being dismissive of my symptoms and me, by having hard evidence of lab value changes due to this supplementation I am able to show something indeed real and concrete is going on.

Hence, my recommendation to have these tests done before and after starting supplementation.

For me, it looks like I will be on methylcobalamin for life.

[Hege]

Dear theresej!

Thank you for your reply.

My methylcobalamin form (http://www.wonderlabs.com/sublingual-b12/index.html) has arrived last Wednesday.

I started to take it 2 pieces per day. First in the morning, second in the evening.
I haven't had any kind of tests what you mentioned (homocysteine and MMA and B12 level). What is MMA?
I can not sure 100% B12 deficiency is my problem, but I "hope". I wrote my symptoms. I woluld like to hope this is the solution for my problems. I'm 26 years old and my symptoms has started 6 years before.
Otherwise, may I have any kind of problem because of taking these vitamins, in that case I don't have B12 deficiency?
When can I experience any improvement? Now I have taken it for six days. Until now I don't experience anything.

I wait any comments, suggestions, opinions.

Thank you.

[theresej]

It can take a month or more for some people to start to experience beneift.

MMA is Methylmalonic Acid, a very specific test for B12 deficienciy as it is raised when B12 is somehow deficient. It would have been really good to have those lab tests as those are objective pieces of information that can show you that this is effective long before you might experience symptomatic benefit. :) You would have to go off of the supplementation for a while to know what those levels really are, and establisha valid baseline. I just don't know how long that would be.

Let us knnow how your symptoms are comming along.

[rose]

Hege,

Most people can convert cyanocobalamin and use it, and in very rare cases people go for months (up to 18 months documented in one especially good medical textbook) before seeing results. The body can do a whole lot before we see it.

But when methylcobalamin is available, it is a better choice.

No problem with extra, but lots of problems with too little.

MMA is definitely better than the B12 test alone, and as long as there is not a kidney problem elevated MMA does indicate B12 deficiency. It does not elevate in all cases, but it will catch a whole lot more cases than B12 serum.

rose

[Proton Soup]

Hege,

Most people can convert cyanocobalamin and use it, and in very rare cases people go for months (up to 18 months documented in one especially good medical textbook) before seeing results. The body can do a whole lot before we see it.


does anyone know why some people have trouble converting cyanocobalamin? is it a genetic mutation similar to the MTHFR polymorphisms or something else entirely. i suspect i'll run across it eventually, but if someone could point me in the right direction it would sure save a lot of time.

[CathyE]

How do you get your levels tested ?
A regular doctor or a Naturopath or who?
I guess it could vary by country?
I live in Canada.

Also, do you know if once opened the B12 goes bad faster than the expiry date? (In case I start & stop for some reason, then want to try again.)

Thanks,
Cathy
diagnosed with Hydrocephalus at age 50, shunted 8 months later, not doing as well as I did earlier especially with memory and concentration.

[Naominjw]

How do you get your levels tested ?

My daughter's endocrinologist ordered the first B vitamin test - most any lab will do it. Lab Corp, Quest, Lab One, etc. Then her GP ordered another set of lab tests for Vitamin B.

The GP ordered some genetic tests.

And you can even order tests on-line and get the blood draw at most any ab... or genetic tests often you can get the swab done yourself at home... they'll send you a kit to get a cheek sample and you mail it back.

[CathyE]

Interesting! I have a feeling this is not the case in Canada, but I will have to investigate.

I am always afraid my family Dr. will tell me it is an unnecessary test (since we have public health care) to keep costs down! Don't get me wrong, he is a very good doctor! Maybe he will surprise me or refer me to an Endocrinologist or a neurologist (? or not?)
Thanks,
Cathy

[lesadarn]

A month ago I discovered I should be looking at taking mega doses of methylcobalamin sublingually.

Within a week of starting methylcobalamin sublingals 6,000 mcg/day, my homocysteine dropped suddenly to within the normal ranage.

This demonstrated that even though my B12 was well within normal limits, my body wasn't converting the cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin well.

My symptoms are aslo improving. But since my symptoms were hard for doctors to classify, witha tendency to say it is "anxiety" or in my head being dismissive of my symptoms and me, by having hard evidence of lab value changes due to this supplementation I am able to show something indeed real and concrete is going on.



Hi :) I know this is an old thread but I was wondering if you continued to have positive results and if you decreased your original starting dosage? I have been taking Cyanocobalamin injectible for a year and also don't see any significant improvement. If you get this, please let me know how you are doing. Thank you

[uncommon]

Rose,

I'm trying to persuade my doctor to give me a script to injectable Methylcobalamin.

She is arguing, not so much because she doesn't like Methyl, more because she knows not much about it.

She's asked me to produce studies that show Methyl would be an advantage over Cyanocobalamin for a 59 year old male with pernicious anemia.

Any chance you could point me toward any useful information?



brendan (atlanta)

[mrsdoubtfyre]

I don't think you need an injection at all. At 5mg oral methyl B12 would cost you about .30 cents or less a day OTC, and you will absorb enough, if taken on an empty stomach to help yourself.

There are medical studies showing oral treatment as good as injectable.

Methylcobalamin is the ACTIVE form your body uses ultimately. Why take an antiquated cyanide based form that needs conversion, when you can have what you need for pennies a day?

There is an RX form, called Metanx. (it has only 2mg in it however)

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20030301/979.html
Because most clinicians are generally unaware that oral vitamin B12 therapy is effective,17 the traditional treatment for B12 deficiency has been intramuscular injections. However, since as early as 1968, oral vitamin B12 has been shown to have an efficacy equal to that of injections in the treatment of pernicious anemia and other B12 deficiency states.9,17-19 Although the majority of dietary vitamin B12 is absorbed in the terminal ileum through a complex with intrinsic factor, evidence for the previously mentioned alternate transport system is mounting.

In one study,18 38 patients with vitamin B12 deficiency were randomized to receive oral or parenteral therapy. Patients in the parenteral therapy group received 1,000 mcg of vitamin B12 intramuscularly on days 1, 3, 7, 10, 14, 21, 30, 60, and 90, while those in the oral treatment group received 2,000 mcg daily for 120 days. At the end of 120 days, patients who received oral therapy had significantly higher serum vitamin B12 levels and lower methylmalonic acid levels than those in the parenteral therapy group. The actual transport mechanism used in this pathway remains unproved, but vitamin B12 is thought to be absorbed "en masse" in high doses. Surprisingly, one study20 showed that even in patients who had undergone gastrectomy, vitamin B12 deficiency could be easily reversed with oral supplementation.

Your doctor SHOULD look this up herself. She is the professional after all.
This laziness is just typical of many doctors today.
She is just balking because she doesn't keep up.

So why don't YOU take control of your health, and just do it yourself?
You will save money and invasive shots, and still get better. And she will lose money when you don't need her anymore. (She'd make money giving you the shots, and having office visits to refill the RXs.)

Much of the new research and use of methycobalamin is being done in the autism community:
http://www.autism.com/ari/editorials/ed_b12.htm

High oral doses are needed in pernicious anemia, because these patients lack intrinsic factor, which enables tiny amounts of cobalamin into the blood stream. When pernicious anemia exists, then HIGH oral doses are needed to be passively absorbed in the gut. Only about 10% maximum orally is absorbed this way. After several months at 5mg orally, you may be able to maintain at 1 or 2mg daily after that. But some people remain at 5mg daily forever. B12 has no known toxicity and is very benign to take.

[Ted Hutchinson]

Methylcobalamin (http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/3/6/461.pdf)
Evidence indicates methylcobalamin is utilized more efficiently than cyanocobalamin to increase levels of one of the coenzyme forms of vitamin B12. ...............Human urinary excretion of methylcobalamin is aboutone-third that of a similar dose of cyanocobalamin, indicating substantially greater tissue retention.................Methylcobalamin has been administered orally, intramuscularly, and intravenously; however, positive clinical results have been reported irrespective of the method of administration. It is not clear whether any therapeutic advantage is gained from the non-oral methods of administration

If there is NO CLEAR THERAPEUTIC ADVANTAGE why pay more?