Calling an emergency IEP, already....*sigh*

[froggy]

Mili,

I was glad to read the new school meeting went fairly well. I think having at least one person (speech) trying to understand Vince and 'get' rdi is really important.
As far as pursuing what is fair and right for our kids and the schools, you know I'm right there. I'm able to be one step further, most likely, because I have witnesses who were directly involved AND willing to come forward with information. If it was just me, with nearly identical issues as you and Vince, we'd have no ability to go forward. They like to paint us parents of sp.ed. students as a bit off kilter ourselves and certainly we don't have the understanding of how these situations come up where the closet is a necessary educational tool. They see no part, in themselves, of how the child got to the closet, how they could have diffused a situation, how they could have used compassion instead of control. Adolf has an army, a giant machine that takes in complaints and spews them out all purified and 'ok'. Sanitize the accusations, turn the blame on the kid, never the teacher's fault- they are the dedicated ones who work tirelessly with 'those' kids. I can't believe the amount of unethical behavior I've come across and the higher up it goes, the worse it is. If only there were others brave enough to come forward.

[milivica]

She's unable to borrow your or Vince's perspective.

Exactly. The part that upsets me though is that she is unwilling. Or worse, she can borrow it and acts like she does anyhow.

[milivica]

I can't believe the amount of unethical behavior I've come across and the higher up it goes, the worse it is.

YES, very very true. I'm getting a grasp of this. Adolf is just one small wheel in a much larger 'machine'. If admin told her to jump she'd ask how high.

Anyhow, I need to really summarize as well as I can, the story of Vincent in that school. Spread the word amongst other parents, they can take it or leave it, that I can't do anything about. I suspect when their child's behavior plummets, I'll have parents trickling in waves on and off to my door for help - which of course I will as well as I can. These will be the same ones that are not effected so feel 'safe' and feel that would never happen to their child, so aren't real interested at the moment in what Vince has experienced. They think what is done to him, they'd never let that happen to their kid. Like I thought.

[tgrimes]

Because I didn't go down the right paths, and didn't exhaust all reasonable options such as hunting for a pro bono. Because I drop my daughter off at that school every day, and wonder what's happening to who. Cause if no one tries to make something happen that seems impossible, for sure it never will. Cause other mom's are as overstressed, hopeless feeling and depressed as I was, and are believing it's ok to let school staff have carte blanche with their kid - or - has no idea what is being done to their kid, and shaking their head at their child's behavior (but not the staff causing it).

.

I am shaking my head too, just wondering how when they have a restraining order against you, you got arrested because of this school, you are still saying you haven't exhausted your options?:eek: What DOES it take?
How do you even get through continuing with Carmen at this school... are there no other elementary schools in the area you can transfer to or this is a rural area?

[milivica]

Well, Carmen's school and Vincent's school is totally separate in my head, as though they were two different schools. I can't change Carmen's school, cause she's doing so well there, knows everyone there....is making progress there as they are working well with her LD. I don't like going into Carmen's school, but Carmen loves her school, and I have been way more 'positive' in attitude around her, like she has no idea I harbor all these feelings I post here. A bit like a mom does in a bad divorce, you want the child to love her father even if he was a jerk to you. What school did to me as a caring parent, was deplorable. But that isn't how they do Carmen, I want her to love that school. Her experience with it has been very different than mine. It hasn't all be gravy for her there, cause peers can be tough for her, she's kinda like a Wisconsin Bindi Irwin.

Anyhow, she's excited to be a part of 'history' by bailing me out - again - don't ask me how I managed to pull that one off. Also, she felt it was 'progress' cause I showed her how it works:

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win - Mahatma Ghandi

I found that saying out after jail, or else I would have expected it to happen and wouldn't have fallen apart.

So, she's all happy the 'fight' is over (in her mind) and we have won RDI for Vince. I mean, how the heck did Martin Luther King Jr. give his children any assemblence of a normal life, with their house getting bombed and all!!!

Carmen has been exposed to the 'Mili factor' all her life. The endless yapping about Ghandi, MLK Jr., animals, etc etc... She's so SMART, omg, that naturaly nt smartness - she's said stuff like, "they did all that to you mom cause lots of them might get fired if you tell on them". I marvel and her thought process, omg, I mean she is smart, and I let her know it. I can only pray that all she goes through in our family, in her family I mean, builds her character and makes her stronger and gives her a wisdom - instead of tearing her down like say an abusive alcoholic parent, or a parent that has so much illness or issues, they aren't even there for there kids.

But I think a lot of my 'anxiety attack' thing, is over all the feelings I relive, every day and every afternoon when I go there to pick her up, see the 'group' of admin all giving me the evil eye, etc... It's scary, I don't know how to react if approached, never did. And by scary I mean, to me, the possibilities at every social encounter are so infinite, my ability to deal with information given to me on the fly and process it, it's making me a wreck. Cause I know when I get nervous I'm loud. I act and speak as someone being attacked by lions would. So, my game plan for now, is say NOTHING if spoken to, by admin, by any of the staff that claimed to be sooooo terrified of me they needed a restraining order.

Did I tell you one of them, spotted me at Walgreens, I didn't see her she was behind me, she tapped me and SKIPPED away in a sing songy voice, "hellooooo mrssssss. *************." What could I do, I did nothing, though I wanted to chase her down the aisle (once I realized who she was, which I didn't at first) and say, "Gee, thought you were soooo scared of me, then why are you....etc etc..."

If I follow my moral conscious, and some preplanned social situation things like saying NOTHING, well that's my game plan so far, for going to her school.

[tgrimes]

I just gotta say this is making ME uncomfortable, even as far removed fas I am from the situation. The 'divorce' analogy not working for me, because if one spouse hade a restraining order, then the 'drop off' location should be a neutral ground, not the premises where there has been a prior incident, that would be called 'looking for trouble' in jury 101.
Second, MLk Jr. didn't give his kids a normal life, and they suffered because of it. You know a lot about him, so you know how his kids are!
I think no matter the scale of things, activism always has a price.
Haven't you paid enough? Just hoping you will think about that some this year.

Lastly, I want to say you sure handled the walgreens thing impressively, I don't know what would posess a grown woman to go up behind a person and tap them on the shoulder, but I'm pretty sure I'd have wanted to kick her @$$ just for that.

tg

[milivica]

I just gotta say this is making ME uncomfortable, even as far removed fas I am from the situation. The 'divorce' analogy not working for me, because if one spouse hade a restraining order, then the 'drop off' location should be a neutral ground, not the premises where there has been a prior incident, that would be called 'looking for trouble' in jury 101.
Second, MLk Jr. didn't give his kids a normal life, and they suffered because of it. You know a lot about him, so you know how his kids are!
I think no matter the scale of things, activism always has a price.
Haven't you paid enough? Just hoping you will think about that some this year.

Lastly, I want to say you sure handled the walgreens thing impressively, I don't know what would posess a grown woman to go up behind a person and tap them on the shoulder, but I'm pretty sure I'd have wanted to kick her @$$ just for that.

tg

Luckily at Walgreens, I had no idea who she was at first, so I was just kind of in that 'staring' mode where your brain is trying to compute where you've seen this person before. Even had I recognized her right away, 'freezing' is pretty much the way I handle everything that requires processing time. There a fight people, flight people, I'm a freeze person. Trying to 'train' myself to be more 'flight'. Being a freeze person, not on purpose mind you, has gotten me in so much trouble...especially when cops are yelling in your face or asking you things you SHOULD know and DO know but can't say. I've been told many times "you're being despondent" and some other words that mean I'm purposely not complying when asked questions like resisting an officer or something. I seem to have always wound up, bumping into the cops, and it never goes in my favor somehow, especially when I ask for HELP. That's the worst thing I could do based on much experience. Though, I realize now, I often asked for help with really stupid things as a young asd, like, if say my landlord refused to do this or that I'd call a cop, I called them all the time, like a small child would ask a parent for help. *blush* Yet, as wrong as I was, I think they could have been kinder often.

About school, I said this to someone before, I hope this makes more sense. I just can't say 'its' over and walk away and give up. I can't forgive and forget either, that's not even an option. I hope it will be someday. But I can 'let go' once I feel I've fulfilled my obligations to inform. To tell Vincent's story, cause it's the story of other kids. To tell my story cause it's the story of other mothers.

What I cannot do, is make that a priority over the here and now with my kids, my husband, our family. What I cannot continue to do is try and be investigator, and judge and jury and police all at once. What I cannot do is try and make the agencies and people whose job it is to protect the children, actually protect them. I cannot make those whose job it is to teach them, actually teach them. And I see now, that is part of what I was trying to do, and what got me so run down and broken.

What I can do, what I plan to, summarize as well as I can, that year of his life, so needlessly traumatic for him and for me too. Send it to everyone who's job it is to investigate, judge, police the schools. I had intended to volunteer there to sort of be 'big brother' and keep my eyes open, I thought lunch hour would be an especially good time. Now, I'm not so sure...cause I'm not so sure I wouldn't get set up again. And I don't think I'm particularly hard to set up. I don't think I'm stupid, but I'm naive and gullible when it comes to smelling a rat. I'm too blindly trusting, I befriend anyone that seems to need a friend, and other than 3 times (in real life, my two friends in Madison and Pogue) I get screwed.

Does that make more sense?

[gynwhyver]

Yes, Milli, this does make sense. And if you need any help getting your documentation together, don't hesitate to ask.

I'm with you on the whole wanting to volunteer thing....parents who help out in school are harder to overlook than those who don't, but with everything that's happened, I'd expect you to be extra-super-cautious before considering volunteering. Unfortunately, I think they could easily set you up...and I'd hate to see you sent off to jail again. :rolleyes: But if you go into this thinking that you could be set up, you may just be more cautious, and can get an idea of what to be on the look-out for. BUT if you do this, is there any way you could have someone else go with you to volunteer too? To keep an eye on things so that you're not set up?


Gwyn

[milivica]

is there any way you could have someone else go with you to volunteer too? To keep an eye on things so that you're not set up?


I accept your nt hint, so how many frequent flyer miles do ya have, must be a lot hee hee.

I'd love help with what to write and send in, but I seriously think it would be way to unfairly time consuming for anyone else to try. I'm just going to read through this entire gynormo thread, and pick out each fact I felt would not have had he been nt. And pick out each fact that happened to me that denied my parental rights such as being banned from observation, which then also denied HIS rights to have his parent observe - basically everything here, but chronological and summarized.

You can imagine the agony of summarizing for the queen of verbosity!

After I first summarize (and I'm thinking that will be very long accidentally) I might ask for help with what facts are important to tell and not. That's really hard for me.

I do have to get going on this, should only take a day if I'm in the 'zone' - I need to get on with it (after my lovely summer break which totally rocked so I did nothing about it) cause STILL as far as I know, I'm banned from observation, I've never been told otherwise.

[milivica]

This is a message, from my daughter Carmen who just turned 10.

"When I was at school today in the library, this girl came running out of the room in the library they put the autistic kids in...it has games and things...and she was 5 and she had a pony tail and she was running down the hallway crying and screaming "Heeeelp, mommy mommy help me, mommyyyyyy!" over and over. And this lady or teacher caught her, and was carrying this chair with straps on it. They were velcro. The chair was wood and it had wood slats on the back. The girl is whiter than you, with light brown hair."

This is a message from ME...what do I to, since Carmen cannot identify the girl (I asked if she could point her out, no) to make sure her mother finds out this happened. What can I do, that would be productive for this little girl? Carmen can't identify the teacher either, said she was wearing capri pants and a striped shirt and was heavy set with dishwater blond hair - but, knows what room she works in so I'm betting she can show me the teacher.

Carmen also said, "Now I see what you were trying to do last year". So, I hope at least ONE of us is 'over' last year around here. She said she's not going to do anything different at school, but, when she sees things that are wrong she's going to tell me right away so I can tell a judge, she says.

Mili

[peglem]

The only thing I can think of is to go to the press about the way Vince was treated and this incident. That poor little terrified girl! Somebody needs to investigate the goings on at this school, if the government won't do it, then who?

Edited to add: Were there other students in the library that Carmen could ask? Somebody probably knows.

[moose53]

G-d, ((((((Milli)))))) :mad:

Between what was done to you and your son last year -- and now THIS :mad: , it sounds like there's a lot of illegal and abusive stuff going on in that school.

I know you've already got your hands full with your own life and your own child, but ...

I'd file a complaint with the State education board -- that's the agency that accredits the school. Maybe if they're threatened with losing their accreditation, something will change.

I'd file a complaint with the local police department too.

Do you know how many kids are in that school that are in the special ed classes??

Do you have anybody on the inside in that school that could get you the names of all the kids?? (I suppose Carmen could do her "James Bond" imitation, but, I'd be resistant to doing that.)

You have to get the names of the parents of all these kids and get the parents coordinated and activated. All of you will be more powerful once you group together.

G-d. I've just been reading some of the other threads that you've posted in today. G-d. I am so furious.

You've have got to get the parents together.

Barb http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/moose53/MINIS/holding-hands.gif

[peglem]

Mili, don't end up back in jail. I think if the press even just printed your story, other parents would come foward or at least pay more attention to what's happening to their child.

[milivica]

I love the idea of getting parents together, but when I mention it everyone is like "great idea" then when I try and get some dates together everyone is 'busy' that day, and the next, and the rest of that week...etc...

I'm sorry but I have to be honest, since Carmen told me this, I'm in a really bad mood. I mean, for all I know, the parent knows about this and there's a reasonable explanation - doubt it but let's say there is. Well fine, but at least I know, the parent knows.

And yeah, I can't turn Carmie into James Bond, she already said she's just going to do what she's always done, but make sure she tells me what happens at school. She said, other students did see, her whole class was there, then scrunched her nose and said, "But nobody did anything or said anything. The just thought she wasn't listening so should be punished or something."

The only thing at the moment I can think to do, is to print what Carmen saw, and give it to all the special ed parents I know, maybe someone can get word to the mother. I won't put Carmen's name on it, or any identifying type of stuff - even though I'm betting it won't take a rocket scientist to figure out it's me. WTF is it with people, with GROUPS and group mentality, no way no other adults see and know the wrongs being done.

Who I really need, is some sleezebags like Jackson and Sharpton - not that I ever tried to contact them, I'd rather things be like this than stoop to that level - I know it shouldn't matter if they help our kids for the wrong reasons, but our kids are so 'clean' and 'pure', I wouldn't even want autism mixed in or in any way linked to the Jack/Sharp duo.

I'm sorry, I'm really not in a good mood. Which sucks, cause usually I'm practically manic. Well, at least I'm pissed. Depression is worse - it's anger without motivation.

[milivica]

Mili, don't end up back in jail. I think if the press even just printed your story, other parents would come foward or at least pay more attention to what's happening to their child.

NO, I'm not going to push it to that level unless I have so much support behind me like say Rosa Parks did (not that I could ever compare myself to her). Honest, I'd be proud to do it.

[peglem]

The difficult thing about getting parents together as well...the school keeps the information confidential. I read about a lawsuit somewhere:rolleyes: where abuse had been reported to the state oversight committee. It was a case where they were routinely using some kind of consequence (locked room?) w/o parents being informed. The oversight agency wanted the names of all the students it had been used on (lots of parents wanting to know if their child was abused). The school only had to divulge how many students, not the individual names! And this was an agency appointed by the state to oversee special education practices!

[milivica]

... :eek: ..

[tgrimes]

I think it's sad that carmen has to be an activist at ten years of age... again, maybe you could think of moving from that school.
She needs to feel like the world is a good place. It is, right?

[milivica]

There are things Carmen cannot handle, math and reading at age level being two of those things. She seems average for 10, nothing outstanding - until you start hearing her thoughts. She's already an activist, weather I want her to be or not. I'm not going to make a spy out of her, that's out. The world can be a good place, yes - yet simultaneously, the goodest good and baddest bad, happens at the same time.

It was a horrible shock for me discovering things about this world, somehow despite my whacked out childhood I really thought the world was like G rated movies, I really really did. I suppose since no one told me point blank, it's how I saw things. When I did discover 'the world' and all it's injustices, or the ones you know about as a minor anyhow, I was mortified, shocked, traumatized, again and again. The only example I can think of at the moment, was how I constantly ragged on people that ate meat, I might have been around Carmen's age, anyhow as I sat there eating my hamburger my ma finally fed up from me talking my goody two shoes vegetarian politics said, "well what do ya think you're eating, it's a cow." Talk about a blank face...worse than any post you can dish out, hee hee.

Carmen never felt or will feel the disillusion I felt, she's known about the world all along, as she grew. I told her bit by bit, as things came up. Spiritually, emotionally, she's the oldest soul I know. She can handle more, and come up with better answers to most things, than I can. It's crazy. She is not sucked into this mess, she saw an injustice, and has a place to go with it, to her mother. How many kids in that school are numb to seeing how disabled kids are treated? Carmen honest to God, sees no disabilities. She's unable to...like she has no line between nondisabled and disabled people, they're all people to her. It never dawns on her, that ANY child should be strapped to a chair while screaming for her mommy to help her. And that's fine with me.

She was jumping up and down excited, when I told her I was putting what she said on the internet...she asked who would see it, I said, "the whole world baby, who ever wants to look."

Still I just feel so happy, that she said she's not going to do anything different, other than tell me what she sees - she thought it was ok how some kids were treated cause she thought their parents knew. I said I didn't know if the parents knew, that's what I want to make sure of - it's not about getting the school 'in trouble' etc... I'd be RELIEVED to find out the parent knew, and there was some logical explanation. I did not see what happened, I do not know this child, likewise I did not see how she felt - her terror.

I got an email last night, from a parent who has a child in constant pain - he has CP and all kinds of very painful issues, brain damage too, terrible seizures. I have no idea why, but she and moms like her inspire me not to quit. She's been through he!! and back with her school system, and her child doesn't get to enjoy a pain free life - Vince has that for me to be so grateful for. I do what I do for the kids, if I keep that reason clear, not revenge or something negative, then I'll refuel and keep going. I do believe God will send a 'boat' for me with answers. Cause I'm not just sitting around, I'm trying. I just need to be more aware and pace myself. Maybe even create a schedule of how much time I allow myself to spend on this and that.

Carmen's not going anywhere, it's her school. Unless she chooses to go, then yes I'd do that.

Ok, got to figure something to type up quick for the parents, brief (cripe that'll be hard) and accurate. Pretty much, just say what my daughter said, and say my concern is the parent is aware due to so much my child endured last year, of which I was not aware.

[tgrimes]

How are you going to get it to the parents?

[moose53]

Google search for: use of physical restraints middle-school
http://www.medwayschools.org/schoolcomm/restraint_policy/default.htm <<-- this is the policy in MY state.
http://www.cesa7.k12.wi.us/content/rsn/documents/RSNEventCatalogComplete_000.pdf
--------------------
http://www.pacer.org/ebd/
--------------------
EBD:
----
http://dpi.state.wi.us/sped/ed.html
--------------------
USE OF SECLUSION AND PHYSICAL RESTRAINTS:
-----------------------------------------
http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/doc/ldrconboreson-2.doc <<-- !!
http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/doc/secrestrgd.doc <<-- !!
http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/doc/secrestsumm.doc <<-- !!
--------------------
from:
-----
* http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/doc/cee-0507.doc <<-- !! States that reasons for restraints are limited. Also, this one's got names of people at the STATE SUPERINTENDENT'S COUNCIL ON SPECIAL EDUCATION (you need to make these people your new best friends).


Information about the use of seclusion and physical restraint have been sent to all school districts, specifically district administrators, principals and directors of special education. A list of resources related to seclusion and physical restraint available at the department's website http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/doc/secrestrgd.doc were shared.

--------------------

QUESTIONS:
----------
(1) Were the seclusion/restraints of Vincent logged last year??
(2) Were the words "seclusion/restaints" put into Vincent's IEP??
(3) Was the closet locked when Vincent was put into seclusion?? If so, that's a fire hazard (see *).


If you can find out who this girl is (someone at the school who witnessed this should know her), get in touch with her parents and ask them the questions (above), you might be seeing a pattern of abuse plus violation of the law plus (see below).

from: http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/doc/secrestrgd.doc

The use of mechanical or chemical restraint is not appropriate for use in schools without medical authorization and oversight


Also, Carmen said "whiter than you". QUESTIONS: Does this mean the little girl was black girl?? And, were both she and Vincent GOTTEN when they were by themselves -- in other words, are school personnel grabbing the black kids when they have the black kids alone?? Are the school personnel not pulling these kids out of a classroom full of kids; are they only pulling these kids when they can get them alone?? (In other words, no witnesses.)


Barb

[milivica]

Wow thank you...I'm going to look at all these sites (tomorrow morning). Wow, you did a lot of work, thank you!

The little girl Carmen saw was white...I'm white (italian) so she meant like very white probably like the kind of kid that burns easy in the sun.

Though it had not occurred to me, the special ed room in that school was moved to this secluded hallway, out of the main school - there is a regular class next to it though, but other than that one class it is isolated. I can't say if there's a 'black thing' going on, honest I'm not sure I would recognize it - I tend to jump to the automatic conclusion that it's a people problem always, like related to being human, not black. Know what I mean? I've pretty much always lived in areas that were so predominantly white, color was never an issue. When I did see a black person, I gravitated toward them, the less a person was like me, the more I gravitated toward them, cause I felt so unlike people that 'looked like' me or were American like me.

Vince was locked in that room but, there would be an adult on the other side holding the lock - however, just today, Vince said last year (he tells me now :( ) they could not unlock the door, he could not explain if he or anyone was in it, but it sounds like they had to take the door off the hinges. Sadly, it was in his IEP and BIP they could put him in that room, but, it was a new IEP and BIP I had not gone through, and to date I still have not and it is still UNsigned!!! Also though, they were to call me, when he was in that room and did not, not ever, not once - that was THEIR verbiage. Also, when I asked for a log of the times he was in there, I got days and times but not the LENGTH of time each time...see what I mean? And, they copied and sent the daily records I already had, not the record of the 'time out' room they are supposed to keep.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grimey....I'm going to hand it to them before/after school. Actually, before only, after would mean some big mouth by then will have told the admin, and they'll be ready to set me up by the time school is done.

[moose53]

Also, when I asked for a log of the times he was in there, I got days and times but not the LENGTH of time each time...see what I mean? And, they copied and sent the daily records I already had, not the record of the 'time out' room they are supposed to keep.


Yeah, see :mad: They're trying to hide something. There's time limits on restraints -- I think it's 20 minutes. Holding a kid in a closet so long that he needs to use the bathroom sounds WAY OUTSIDE what is allowed.

THE LAW SAYS they are supposed to be logging this stuff.

I would love to be there. I'd be kicking some serious http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/moose53/MINIS/jackass.gif

Hugs.

Barb

[peglem]

Holding a kid in a closet so long that he needs to use the bathroom sounds WAY OUTSIDE what is allowed.

Barb

I think many times the reason for the behaviors is the child needs to use the bathroom. I keep thinking back to that little 6 yo girl who was locked in when she refused to do her reading assignment. Then stayed there for hours, wetting herself and trying to make it through the 5 minutes of complete stillness required to get out. I keep thinking she probably refused the work, because she had to go to the bathroom, but couldn't express it. If only they had tried to find out what she needed.

[milivica]

Peglem, brilliant. I didn't think of that.

[Isabelle]

i need to get out of this world, this world is looking scarier by the second.....:mad: :mad:

[milivica]

Don't get off the world, just find all the scary people and shove them off ;)

[milivica]

Dear Everyone here,

I think if you read these quotes about civil rights, you can see how they are EXACTLY what I've been feeling and saying. You can see how though they were intended as statements for the equality of all races, they apply entirely to our autistic children in the school system, in the world - as well as any person that cannot exercise their own voice and will over their own lives. These quotes (MLK Jr. of course) explains how I feel, who I am - or who I'm hoping and trying to become...cause I just don't know any other way to be, don't want to either. Ok, so below is a few reasons why it's easier for me to be a crazy lady running around trying to be helpful...than only worry about me and mine...


Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood.

I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. That is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant.

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.

Segregation is the adultery of an illicit intercourse between injustice and immorality.

Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it.

All progress is precarious, and the solution of one problem brings us face to face with another problem.

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

[gynwhyver]

Milli:

Could you please PM me with the name of this school (is it the same one Vince went to last year?).

I'm so sleep deprived I can't think straight right now, but I might be able to help you with this when I can think more clearly. (There's a good reason for this, but unfortunately I can't say more until after this coming Thursday, but it relates to this).

I think I've mentioned before MY daughter was physically restrained in school, and I've been advocating ever since for more accountability.

Off the top of my head, you could contact the WI Protection & Advocacy and file a complaint with them. You can share your experiences with Vince and then tell them what Carmen saw. Hopefully that will prompt an investigation.

Some P&A's are wishy washy about helping parents, but legally they HAVE to investigate abuse allegations in schools (I have a copy of the laws), which includes restraints & seclusions. If you contact them and they say they cannot help you, I'll contact them professionally through Families Against Restraint and Seclusion. I would also be willing to call them to file a complaint on behalf of my agency for you, if you'd like. Just let me know what I can do to help.

Take care,

Gwyn

[milivica]

I spent a good chunk of the year working with (or so I thought) Wisconsin's Advocacy place, after months, and emails, and phone interviews, the decided there was no case to pursue. WHAT! When I pushed the issue, the wound up saying they had a full case load at the moment, take the most pressing issues. How this is not pressing, don't even ask. I have all that in email too.

I'll pm you the name of Vincent's OLD school, where Carmen witnessed this - also - I'm going to sort of slip into the library before school, when things are hectic, and take a pic of the chair IF I can locate it - I am concerned there could be some other thing on the chair Carmen 'thought' was velcro straps. As perposterous as that sounds, I don't want to report anything not true and provable. Ya know? It would weaken all the TRUTHS. Vince said there was no chair at his old school with straps, so, I'm not sure what to think....though Vince DID say that one day they had to take the 'time out room' door completely off, it got stuck shut and locked!!!!

I'd love it like crazy if you called them to file a complaint on behalf of your agency for me!!!

This week for sure, I have to get a summary of last year's events. I can't judge what any agency will or won't look at, ya know? So I'm going to try and include it all, without making it too overwhelming to read, cripe that's gonna be hard. I'm too closely involved, ya know? But hey, I'll do it, gotta do it! What makes it a bit hard, so I have to make sure and state this....first NOW some of the events are coming out of Vince. He just cannot 'communicate', he can talk up a storm, he can converse ok, he can recite weather facts great, he cannot tell you what happened if you ask - he'll start punching his legs and yelling "I don't know I don't know I don't know". He can 'see' a video of what happened in his head (me too) but can't turn that into communication. I know EXACTLY how that feels. If only I could get out what I see, man, I really would be a heck of an author.

[moose53]

((((((Milli)))))),

I don't really KNOW what it's like to have autism or asperger's. I "GET" the feeling from your words.

I've also, lately, been getting a 'sick' feeling in my stomach wondering if this has been part of all of what my son was going through. You know how when you go back and look at a puzzle again that used to be too hard to solve and all of a sudden, you see how the pieces fit?? My son is now 39. The thing that gives me the sick feeling in my stomach is when you mention how Vincent can talk for hours and hours about sports and news and a TV show but never really talks about feelings and emotions :(

I wonder something, though. You said that you see *IT* in your head like a movie, but, you can't really put it into words.

I can understand THAT. I've seen movies that I just can't describe 'cause they're too complicated and have too many pieces and too many switches to really be able to verbalize -- sort of like "you just had to *BE* there".

What I'm wondering is, instead of trying to summarize what you see in your head, could you look at it differently -- could you put yourself in the place of a DIRECTOR and say "instead of having this character do this, I would have that character do this instead". Sort of like with the mindset of: instead of just being a passive witness to events, if you saw yourself as being the one that CONTROLLED the events.

Do you understand what I'm saying?? I guess it would be sort of like almost playing a game with events -- pretending that the really complicated PART A is a simpler PART B?? So, instead of using the full, complicated, Latin name of an animal, you'd use the simpler word "tiger". Instead of using the full, complicated chemical description of a drug, you use the common term "aspirin".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thought about converting what's happened in the past year from "IN YOUR HEAD" to "ON THE PAPER" (think bullets -- :D -- not that kind -- the paper kind) :D :

* TITLE OF MAJOR EVENT:
- Date of event.
- Place that event occurred.
- One or two FEELING words that describe the event.
- More FEELING words that describe the event.
- For complete details, see Appendix A.

So the first thing that someone sees is a Summary Page with all the bullets that "highlight" the events. Then at the back, you have sort of an Appendix that goes into full detail about each of the events.

The problem that you run into when you're trying to convey a TON of information to busy people is they start to tune-out 'cause what you're presenting is visually and emotionally too complicated to understand quickly.

So, the bullets get the points across really fast:

* EVENT A:
- Date.
- Place that event occurred.
- Feeling word.
- Feeling word.
- See Appendix A for full details.

* EVENT B:
- Date.
- Place that event occurred.
- Feeling word.
- Feeling word.
- See Appendix B for full details.

Hope I haven't confused you even more http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/moose53/MINIS/friends2.gif

Barb

[milivica]

I've tried EVERYTHING a person can try in 43 years, to communicate as I intend, to translate my pictures into words. When I'm in 'the zone' so to speak, I can. And it's not like I have a video in my head and cannot describe it, it's like I have a video in my head and it never dawns on me to describe it/communicate. If I can at least say "I see Ron Howard directing The Grinch movie" when I read your post, that would tell you SOMETHING. Though it would be devoid of emotion, it's at least something.

Example. A woman that lived above me had two vicious dogs. One bit me as I was leaving my apartment. As her lawyer, who was also her boyfriend was grilling me, one question he asked was, "what is the parking lot at the apt. complex like". What I SAW in my head when he asked me, was a memory of him vacuuming her floor through the patio windows with his shirt off and jeans. What I said was to his question was, "Don't you know?" and he yelled, "No I do not know, answer the question" and then my first thought was how can he not know what the parking lot looks like, you can see it from out her window? But since his WORDS said "No I don't know" I believed he didn't know and it just really confused me, so I described the parking lot. NOW 20 years later, I realize he was trying to influence the judge, that the picture in the judges head was NOT the picture in my head, and I didn't understand anything he was inferring, so I had no way to protect myself against the false pictures he was creating in the judges head. He didn't want me to communicate to the judge, that his client was his long time girlfriend and the two of them had been spitting on and PEEING ON my patio and patio window and harassing me all kinds of ways, and I never told the judge, cause it happened, so to me, the judge 'knew' that - or rather it was known by the universe if it happened, there was no realization I needed to say it - I thought we were there to talk about weather or not her dog bit me, and them paying all my hospital stuff. I did not see how anything else was relevant, or should have been brought up. So I didn't. In the end the judge awarded HER $1,500 and me NOTHING for all my hospital bills, the pants and boots with teeth holes in them, she got money for me for 'punitive' damages aka the emotional stress I caused turning the whole apartment complex against her....it was the OPPOSITE. Everyone was furious at me for taking her to court. You should have seen my leg, I couldn't walk right for over 2 years (achilles tendon).

They made it look like I exagerated my injuries - dunno how I could, I had pictures. True, as they said I didn't even go to the doc for two days - what I didn't say was CAUSE SHE CAME TO MY DOOR AND BEGGED ME NOT TO TELL AND I THOUGHT IF I DID SHE'D BE MAD AT ME SO I TRIED TO BE A GOOD FRIEND. That type of mind, is my mind, it's hard to explain. It makes sense to me. It has been the constant in my life, this kind of injustice. It's how lots of asd's wind up hating all nt's, feeling bitter and sour and depressed and suicidal and with an aloneness only a pacing zoo animal in a tiny enclosure can understand.

Anyhow, I have hindsight quicker now, it doesn't take years, but because of my failure to borrow another's perspective quickly (part of my communication problem) and take for granted they know things they couldn't possibly know, just cause I see them, cause I know them, to me they are fact that does not need to be said. Also, I just don't have the sense of priority, like I have no idea what information is relevant to give, to change the picture in another person's head and show them MY side...what I am good at, is understanding the other person's side once they explain it, what I cannot understand is my own side. Came from years and years and years and years of becoming all 'other' and losing my 'self' by the continual non stop being told what is adversive is good, and visa versa. "Twirling and rocking makes you look like a retard, stop it" so instead I'd sit and pick and bite my nails off bloody, no one saw, so that was 'good'. Causing myself discomfort and pain and fear and all things bad was 'good', causing others to tell me to stop it or angering them was 'bad'...it's like you are put in an upside down world, and it never feels right, something's got to give, so you give up your SELF. Not that I had a good sense of self to begin with being on the spectrum. That's why I love that song by Metalica, Unforgiven:

New blood joins this earth
and quikly he's subdued
through constant pain disgrace
the young boy learns their rules
with time the child draws in
this whipping boy done wrong
deprived of all his thoughts
the young man struggles on and on he's known
a vow unto his own
that never from this day
his will they'll take away

what I've felt
what I've known
never shined through in what I've shown
never be
never see
won't see what might have been
what I've felt
what I've known
never shined through in what I've shown
never free
never me
so I dub thee unforgiven

they dedicate their lives
to running all of his
he tries to please them all
this bitter man he is
throughout his life the same
he's battled constantly
this fight he cannot win
a tired man they see no longer cares
the old man then prepares
to die regretfully
that old man here is me

what I've felt
what I've known
never shined through in what I've shown
never be
never see
won't see what might have been

what I've felt
what I've known
never shined through in what I've shown
never free
never me
so I dub thee unforgiven

you labeled me
I'll label you
so I dub thee unforgiven

Ok, back to communication, I'm off track here....It's really hard to describe. If I could understand better what the other person was thinking, borrow their perspective, everything else would come. If I could understand words don't mean verbatim what words say ('wow it's getting late' means 'I want you to leave') AS it's happening, and understand the body language which is a huger part of communication than words. I can read my daughter, she is the only one in the world. It's like being psychic. She says, "Mommy" and the 'way' she says it, the way she looks on her face, her body, her tone, just the whole picture, I know she's about to create a story to rationalize something she wants, and fears I'll say no about. And that COMMUNICATION and KNOWING I have with her, happens in a nanosecond.

And that is what i'm working on doing with everyone. Cause when you can't communicate, everyone is making choices for you and about you, based on what they think you think, what they think you feel, and it's like you're brain is in a cage inside your head and you can't scream "Noooooo" even if you physically can, it's like it doesn't dawn on you to SHARE the the word, the feeling. And if you can, that's all you can scream. Sure I take forever to 'process', not cause I'm a slow processor like I thought, but because I'm getting such small fragments of communication (words only) of course it takes me longer to process MEANING.

And being aspie or autistic or anything, is no harder or easier, no better or no worse, that the cumulative effect of everyone that influences your life, makes choices in your life. You are pretty much TRAPPED counting on others to make choices for you. Nt's can also experience this, but they can CHOOSE to leave, go out on their own, borrow the perspective of others so survive out there in the world and be a person that influences choices in others. It's so hard to describe. I mean, it is what it is for me, I don't know different - EXCEPT with my daughter. Thank God. Most people on the spectrum NEVER experience, the multifaceted communication I have with her - I 'get' her even before she opens her mouth.

So, all this RDI and so on, it's never been about being nt, it's about having CHOICE. Choice to self regulate cause I know how I feel, instead I know how others will feel if I do this or that. CHOICE is what RDI is all about to me. Choice to know how I feel, how others feel, you can't have choice when you don't have communication, you can't have that invisible emotion sharing exchanged in a 'look'. I've gotten a taste of these things, from time to time in my life. I was so hooked, so addicted, I've spent from childhood till now still searching. RDI is it. RDI would be it even if I were nt! That's the part I think no one understands. And even if RDI didn't work for me or Vince, that would tell me it's not neurological, and entirely biomedical so I'd know where to look!

Now here, on the forum, everyone describes their perspective, so it's easy for me to understand. I'm way more on an even playing field here, than real life. There's not body language or tone or all that stuff. Only words. Well, that's exactly how real life is for me anyhow. Though it's less confusing here.

Now none of what I said is sad, it just is what it is. I will tell you one thing, I am HAPPY, often almost MANIC. I have more choice now, than I've ever had in my life. More ability to sort of 'bookmark' happy events in my head, than only relive the sad and traumatic. Because I feel happiness, contentment, joy, a urgency to give to others, I mean that's a great life! The pay sucks, hee hee.

I just think you're great Moose, I want to give you a big hug and drink huge giant ice coffees with whip cream (without getting a stomach ache) and have the time of our lives doing 'nothing' but hanging out and letting our invisibles have the best time ever.

(if you don't know what I mean by our invisibles, I can find that post)

Ok, I just went on a total rambling ramble before grocery shopping - hopefully it wasn't too scattered.

[moose53]

Oh my God, ((((((Lisa))))))!!

**I GET IT!!**

It's a whole bunch of things. Being told when you're a child that you're not feeling what you're feeling. Not getting that words don't always mean what you think they mean. Not everybody means the same thing when using a word. Men and women mean different things when they use the same word.

All those subtle little differences.

You know I just got a letter from my son. He's in prison for another 5 months. He never even asks me how I am. Just tells me about things that he read in the newspaper -- cats trapped in trees, and picnics at his favorite beach, asks me to look things up on the internet or on a map. He's either got autism or asperger's, doesn't he.

God, I **GET** it :eek: In here :HEART:

I know all about those subtle communications that you get from your parents and your family and your teachers.

By the way: have you ever tried iced coffee with vanilla ice cream :D My Mom used to make that. :HUGE SIGH: and a :PRETTY BIG DROOL:

BIG HUGS (and love). You know I've always had a special place in my heart for Vincent -- he's such a great boy and I **KNOW** that wonderful things can happen for him.

Barb

[milivica]

You're getting it all right!

So, if I met someone at school that said "hi" back after I first said "hi", to me, they were my friend. If I knew where it was, would go to their house, knock on the door, and act like we'd already had a friendship for years, I might pop in and say, "Hi, it's me from school, Lisa! So what are we going to do tonight? We could this or that or this or that", etc etc etc etc etc... and I might say, "I'm so excited, cause no one likes me and I don't have any friends, so I can be your best friend ever. I never lie, I'm loyal, I'm never late....please don't dump me cause I'm a really good friend"

So, after thoroughly freaking out the person, they might say "Yeah, sure, come back some other time" and slam the door in my face. So I think, 'Wow her door is loud", hear no disgust in her tone, and celebrate she said YES (yeah, sure = yes) and try and figure out what time 'some other time' is. I rationalize some other time is any time, other than now....so if it is 3:36 pm, then any time from 3:37 on is fine...although technically one second after she says another time it would be another time, but I"ll wait the whole minute cause I don't want to be pushy. Ding dong.....

Do I need to tell you, that friendship ended as most of mine did, a few minutes after it started. Yet, I never stopped getting manic and excited, when I thought I had a chance to finally get a friend. And I did manage a friend or two, that could handle my verbosity assaults. I can think of three, one became a special ed teacher, one a social worker I believe, and one a doctor.

If you want to know more about communication with people on the spectrum, look into Tony Attwood, he's fantastic at explaining stuff like that.

You know how online, when you first meet someone, you might think they are kind or crass, nice or mean, because of the WORDS they type. Things intended as humor, can be insulting, etc etc... cause you are only looking at words, no body language, facial expression, intonation, volume, just words.

As you get to know people online, you begin to know when they're joking or not because you begin to know intent. Same for me, in person. Probably why, and this is hard to explain, I don't feel aspie online. Not here anyway. I don't post anywhere else.

I've put ice cream in coffee, mmmmm. Hmm, maybe kaluah and cream. Man you got me nostalgic now, I'm ready to get in my car and go for that coffee with you girl!

[milivica]

Ok, Carmen had another story for me today.

"I was doing my math with my partner (she gets pulled out for math and reading) and there was a boy in there, he is a twin, and he said 'No I don't want to my work!' and he was just walking away. A teacher grabbed his upper arm as he walked away, he was defending himself and got his arm away and yelled 'No' again. The teachers said like a threat, "You better come back here right now!". He didn't. The two teachers tried to grab him, he tried to run but they grabbed him, they made him sit in a chair and said "you're going to sit here until you calm down" and he kept screaming "No No No!" so one lady got behind him while he was in the chair, grabbed his arms and crossed them in front of his chest and held her arms over his....the lady was not really a teacher though, she is a volunteer mom. The other lady (an aide) holded his legs down. She knelt in front of him, put his ankles together and held them really tight. When that was happening, my teacher had me and my partner leave the room, she said, "this is too loud we're going to go to the other room" So we went. It was 1/2 hour later, cause my math was done then, I looked in the doorway really quick and they were guarding the door as he was screaming so he couldn't get out. I don't know if he was still stuck in the chair or not. About 15 minutes later, I heard him screaming as he was being taken down the hall, "No please, I don't want to go to the time out room(closet), I'll behave" I didn't see how they were forcing him down the hall, but he got away, and then they caught him again and he was getting drug down the hall with his legs dragging behind. He was so loud and scared, and still yelling "Please, not the time out room" and begging. And one of the grown ups said, "Don't worry you won't miss your recess" and then they put him in the closet so I didn't hear anything. Then I went back to finish my work."

Feedback? How do I create a situation, where school is afraid to treat kids like this, without them knowing Carmen is involved. She's all, "No that's not right, and I don't care if you tell and they get mad at me" which is great, but I'm not willing - were she older, I would let her make a decision like that and support it. She's 10, she hasn't got a prayer if the teachers 'mark' her as a potential loss of their employment.

I'm glad she can talk to me, she said she wanted to before but she was afraid I'd get mad and go to school and get in trouble (yeesh, smart kid, coulda used her insight the night I went to jail). Now that she knows I won't, she wants to know what can be done. I DON'T KNOW. That's why I'm documenting this here.

I'd rather contact an agency than the parent in this case. Is there any way, to 'worry' school about the way they treat kids. I cannot believe it's ok, to restrain a child or put him in the closet for any of the reasons they did today. I want an agency rather than talk to the mother, because her child can speak for himself, and can tell his mother what happened from his side, the mother can do as she needs to but at least the boy can speak, explain, communicate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the positive side, at Vincent's new school, they have again informed me about difficulties with Vince, which is something I appreciate, and need. This time it actually is not their fault - one of his new teachers got a job offer, so left to California, and he is upset, wants her to get fired so she can come back and teach him. That kind of thing. And, they asked for ideas about what to do to make a smooth transition to the new staff, once they hire her. Super information, super questions, I totally know what to do so explained (they can take or leave it).

Also, they have again wanted to meet, this is the fourth time I think, we seem to do so every friday. Wonderful news for me, cripe I couldn't get a meeting in with a crow bar at the last school. The RDI consultant is going there tomorrow to observe and help staff understand what to do, what not to do. They originally agreed to 1-2 hours, she will be there at least 3. I will meet with her for an hour afterward. I couldn't get to even consider letting her come in the other school.

Of course, the down side that they are not ALREADY using RDI, and it's making me crazy. I'm pretty sure they think they are, that happens a lot with RDI, it's a very very new concept, teachers are totally skill oriented, instructional, that's what they do all day. It's their job. And really parents are also skill and instruction oriented, it's our job all day! Understanding function over skill, it gets really confusing.

My friend, the doctor, will also see my consultant - who is now her consultant for her 14 year old daughter, cause though she and her husband (a shrink) love and have easily latched onto RDI in theory, but like most parents who begin the program, it's just really hard to apply it. It all makes sense when the consultant is showing you what to do, then she leaves, and you feel like, "Huh, how do I do this?" You may know your child needs more flexible thinking, but try and create a way to help him gain that function, it's hard. But not doing it is harder.

So, looks like I'll meet at school tomorrow. I grow more and more impressed by his S&L that I liked all along anyway (from the old school, she is still his S&L). I think she is Vincent's brightest hope, for who will 'get' RDI, who will want to 'learn' this whole gaining function thing.

So, that's about it.

[tgrimes]

I don't understand how they expect these little kids to have so much self-discipline. He was suddenly uncomfortable in the chair and had to get out of it so the best thing to do is hold him there? Yeesh.
How difficult would it be to say something like "okay.. how about you get a drink of water, and then come back, see if that makes you feel more refreshed... does that sound like it might work?..."
And big smile, and HOPE like hell that kid is gonna say yes.
And if he doesn't suggest something else...
Yeesh. I know that teacher, she decided this morning she was "gonna teach him a lesson..."
She has no forethought... for tomorrow, he will make her life even more miserable.

[milivica]

Well ya know, the impression I get, they have these aides and parent volunteers, they really do not have the training, probably have nt kids, just do not get the whole 'framing success' and tend to get bent out of shape, and want to establish their absolute authority over the child, kind of like the worst case scenario of nuns in a catholic school. It's like they must keep the kids under 'control', have this sense of silence being good. It's really messed up.

Actually, I shouldn't even try to guess what they're thinking. The only thing stopping me from volunteering there, as I intended to, is my certainty I'd get set up again, and go to jail again.

[tgrimes]

Whoops, I think when I first responded to this I must have only read up till the part where I had something to say, I didn't even see that vince stuff!

I know this is being pesky, but his is the last time.... I beg you to remove carmen from that situation. Whether or not you remove her from the school is a different matter, but you are too emotionally involved in vince's past there, you had a restraining order, you probably CAN'T volunteer there. You need to stop her from becoming your 'spy', you are too into that MLK stuff right now, it's a tender situation, and this could blow itself way out of proportion. Since this is the last time I say it.... GIVE IT A REST!!! I do understand, even if it doesn't sound like I do, someday you will realize that, but for now I have to sound mean. Too bad.
It's not the right time for this 'quest'. You need to advocate for yourself and your family before you move it up a notch.
Prove success first at square 'A'.
That's all. No more words.

(but I do reserve the right to post a video of an activist being tazered.)

[milivica]

Hey Grimey, Carmen is welcome to tell me what ever is on her mind. She's not my spy, if it sounds like that, it's not. She's told me about 2 situations since the start of school a month ago. She says she's glad she can tell me these things now, before she was afraid to, afraid I'd go there and flip out I suppose.

As for what to do with the information she gives me, that I don't know, I know I can't do 'nothing'. MLK or not, I've always been a big underdog sticker upper kind of person, so has Carmen. MLK matches my feelings with his words, and takes them many many levels further. Were he on the spectrum, I do not believe he could have ever achieved what he did, he knew how to forge ********s, not make enemies like me. He was not a wasteful ponderer or words, but knew how to take effective action towards change.

Don't worry, Carmen is not my spy, or anything like that. Carmen is not that kind of kid. If I asked her to do something, that was against her sense of right and wrong, fair and unfair, she'd tell me flat out how she felt, and I wouldn't push it.

I think something about the way I am saying things, is giving you the wrong impression. Trust me as Carmen's mom! I'm ditzy about 'life' but not about being a mom, though I am learning along the way. I won't and can't use Carmen as a weapon to get school busted, or anything like that. I hope any hate or ill feelings I have, would never allow me to go so far as to use my kids. I would use what she tells me, to report school, if I thought it would help the kids involved at all. I won't regret trying, letting her try, even if nothing comes of it. I never have. I didn't ask her to tell me, I never ask her about anything other than her day. It's a good thing for her, to have me more 'stable' with Vince out of that school, so she can tell me what's on her mind, without fearing I'll react. I'm her mother first, her advocate first, an advocate for others second. I am realizing, and starting to get it, that I can't randomly answer Oprah emails and other random things and create any change in the world. I'm being to broad, and need to refocus on my home, and move outward from there. I was just so exuberant and enthusiastic and wanting everyone to feel like I finally did finally knowing what my kids needs. I mean, are autistic moms the most stressed group of women you ever met or what? Revenge really isn't at the core of me, I hope that is evident. If they could 'get' RDI that would be hands down more rewarding and fulfilling than any punishment would be. I don't care about punishment, I care about school staff working with autistic kids 'getting' autism.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm not hearing you, you're not hearing me, or we're both not hearing each other. I really don't understand what you worry about with Carmen telling me what she sees that she feels is wrong. But I'm honored that you say what you feel is best for my child and for me, no matter how wrong you are (hee hee, my little 'shot' at ya).

[milivica]

Ok, well, 'good' news - Vincent's consultant was called by his school, they would like here there even earlier, so 10:30. By 1:00 they will begin a meeting with her, so she can go over everything with them, and help them integrate RDI into his school day. She said receiving a call the day before, is more than most schools do. She's realistic, but not synical or tainted(like me) with school staff, she works well with them, also years ago she worked in schools as aides to kids with autism. She is direct though, I still remember when she told our director of student services she really know what she was talking about when it came to autism, or something like that. It was surreal, the Dir of Student Ser. stammering and choking on her words, "well, why, you, I, you got a lot of nerve". Hee hee. She was just saying it factually, not as a put down. That's why sometimes I don't think I'm aspie, I think maybe I'm just from Chicago, that's how we talk. :D

Ok, so, I'll be out a lot but post later tomorrow. My friend who is doing RDI with her daughter, wants me to come to her house cause the consultant will be there. They are having trouble getting off the ground with RDI, understandable. I don't know anyone that doesn't. So, I hope this means her daughter can 'play' with me over here on a regular basis, or me there. They offered to give me a job working with her, but this kid, I just love her, I think money can make things 'weird', I'm afraid of that, but, made a deal if they'd do RDI I'd do it for free. This is the same friend who put us up in Marco Island for 9 days for free at that condo - what they have to share with us, they have. They might have some money, but they're totally in touch with life, hardships, know what I mean? So I'm anxious and nervous like crazy about tomorrow, what the consultant will observe and think about this school's potential to work properly with Vince, but, then I'm very excited, hoping to start seeing my favorite (and only) niece (she's not really my niece) my friends daughter, also now in RDI.

Ok, so, off I go to clean up, and read my new book Strength to Love by of course, MLK Jr., I felt the need to mention it, to make Grimey a little nuts.

[tgrimes]

. But I'm honored that you say what you feel is best for my child and for me, no matter how wrong you are (hee hee, my little 'shot' at ya).

Just wanted you to think about it, that's all.
Good, i'm glad to to hear i'm dead wrong on that, then.... now I'll stop worrying. :)

[gynwhyver]

Milli:

Please PM me!!! I want to help with this but need to know how you want me to proceed. I can report this to P&A from my agency - but need to know if you want me to be the go between or if they can contact you directly, so long as they keep your information confidential. They should be able to investigate based on what you've shared - because there is enough evidence to indicate abuse may be present - and they have the legal authority to do so (and if they balk, I'll contact the national office and have them jump all over them till they do investigate.) But I'll need your contact information. If it's easier for me to call you, I can call after 9 pm EST Friday if that's convenient for you.

I'll also do some digging. I'm thinking I saw back in this thread your state's regs regarding restraints & seclusions, and will review those. I can also list this school on our agency blog as a school that has been reported to have used restraints & seclusions, but am hesitant to do so until P&A has been contacted & gets involved, as IF by some chance the school would stumble upon it, "evidence" may turn up missing and new "evidence" could be created to cover up what happened.

Take care,

Gwyn

PS In my excitement to respond to you I completely missed your reference to Metallica's Unforgiven. Awesome song!

[milivica]

Woah, sorry, contact info - geez I forgot!

They are welcome to call me since it's confidential. One more bit of info, the other day, Carmen said the chair with the straps folds flat, I forgot to edit and add that to what she'd said.

I'll happily give you all my info, and the school info. If any agency want to talk to me they are welcome to, but it works best if they have questions, q&a type of talking. Not 'conversational'. I am told I talk and talk, I stink really bad at telling a story, I never get to the point, interrupt continually, etc...

If it even matters....for I believe 3 years now, parents have asked the principal to move the wheel chair accessible parking spot to in front of the school doors, the first spot, where it should be....always an excuse. The weather, gonna do it over the summer, etc etc... It is just a very good example, of how admin 'respects' others. We have a husband wife principal 'team' in the district, the wife being the one at Vincent's old school.

Ok, off to pm you, I just know I'll forget if I don't now.

THANK YOU is not enough Gwyn,
thank you
thank you
Mili

[milivica]

Well, got nothing but GOOD news from the consultant. Apparently, staff admitted they didn't know what to do, and wanted to know how to get more RDI training.

See, that totally relieves me, I already knew they didn't know what to do.

She said Vince struts around there like a king, I knew that too - cause a couple weeks ago I sarcastically said to him "who do you think you are there (at school" and he said "King!".

She said it seems to her, they are finally 'getting' the point of RDI, so want to know more, they took notes and asked questions all day. That's the hardest part I think, to get staff to understand the value in such a different method, function over skill.

She said they talked about how basically they are receiving this child (Vince) who did not get what he needed in K-5, so they are bearing that load as well as 6th grade. True. So, they have to do what should have been done 6 years ago, with a now almost 12 year old child. True.

So, time will tell. I'm still having trouble grasping the concept that RDI will be in Vincent's school, just that they were so interested and asked how to get more training, I feel a little hope, but I dunno. Time will tell. I definitely feel BETTER after all the consultant told me. She's been to schools a lot, and said this was a very successful day, they were with her the whole observation asking, writing, questioning and trying to learn. She said some schools, though they let her observe, they just don't bother to find out what she observed. They had a meeting after observation too.

So, well time will tell. Seems they are getting what all the big whoop is about RDI finally, nothing else has worked for Vince - this we all know. Plus THEY are seeing the difference in Vince which is making a mark in their minds.

I have a crying prepuberty kiddo here (Carmen) who's 3 favorite winter outfits from last year, no longer fit - she is seriously INTO fashion. So have to go.

[peglem]

WINTER clothes? Whatever do you mean? We've finally cooled down to the 90s in the daytime here!

Its so nice to hear things going better this year! Be patient with the teachers-remember how hard RDI is at the beginning! Is Mr. Nothreedollarbill involved in the RDI training?

[milivica]

Patient? Holy smokes, ain't I? See, if school says, "wow, we think RDI is exactly what he needs, just like you've been saying. We 'get' it. And even if we didn't what we do get is what we've done, has clearly not worked. But it will take us time to train..." I have no problem with patience.

When they aren't forthcoming with me, then it's hard. I have no problem with Vince being the 'first' RDI kid, some one's got to start, and I am willing for Vince to be that one. A start is far better than not at all. But I want to see school really making an effort to refer to the consultant, ya know? I want them to really utilize her, even if they get billed - see what I mean?

Currently, Vince has no academic or developmental progress at school, that's my problem, and that for sure I have no more patience for. The consultant said academics will have to wait for a while, while they develop the master/apprentice relationship. No problem - but they have to actually develop it competently, no trial and error. If they feel unclear (which they will, everyone does with RDI at first) call the consultant, and get guidance. NO more guessing, trial and error, good intentions minus competence, with my kid - he's had enough years of that.

Also, if they INCLUDE me in the process, so I'm clear what's going on and not in the dark, I have no problem with mistakes they make while referring to the consultant. Cause once they build the M/A relationship, it won't be like pulling teeth to get Vince to do what they say. Right now, omg, he is quite a noncompliant little student he is. If he were my student, I would not know what to do - I'd be emailing the consultant every day. But I wouldn't lock him in a closet, that's for sure. They don't do that there though, and know I'd support them in any way deemed right for Vince by the consultant. She liked my idea that once the M/A is developed, then I can go back to doing what I used to do...if Vince won't work at school, he has to work at home with ME. Trust me, that's not a treat! So, in time, I will 'help' Vince to see doing your work at school is a privilege, or at least a heck of a lot better than doing it with mom. Heh heh. But I can't expect him to listen to teachers when for him, there is no good reason to - they need to develop that with him.

So, I'm hoping, but also feel sort of sick cause this is just not something I can control. They are either going to really commit to doing what Vince has success with at last, or continue 'old school' nonsense that has gotten him no where all these years. And oh, yeah, Mr. $3 man was there, he thought he was already doing what the consultant suggested - that's usually the reaction to RDI. Very hard to grasp function over memorized skills. Also, I think because Vince is so verbal, people forget much of what comes out of his mouth is because of autism, not being a brat. They react 'typically', Vince don't have the 'equipment' to gain anything but a grudge from that.

Ok, off I go, with all my patience!
hee hee
Mili

[milivica]

Well, great meeting today. I hope. Unless I'm being totally snowed again.

School has agreed to, through January at least and starting this month, see Vincent's consultant at least once per month, so she can continue to train them in applying RDI at school. In addition, they expressed frustration there's no quicker way to become trained - which tells me they must actually want training, or why would they be frustrated. Again, hope I'm not being snowed. They want to get rolling with the RDI (master/apprentice stuff) already, more so than they are now, cause they are seeing a difference.

I was really sick the last couple of days, like PTS kind of sick, after hearing this woman with autism speak at a 2 hour conference, for many reasons...last year, the last 43 years of my life, the last 11 of Vincents, the realization that school last year did all they did to me when they KNEW what it would do to my insides, see, till the conference (that school sponsored again) I really thought they were clueless and being cruel, but like, I can't explain I can't explain.

Ok, like you know how a kid can tell a parent "I hate you" and have no idea how that can cut? I thought that's what school was doing to me all last year. Turns out, I was the 'child' and the school was the 'parent' saying "I hate you to me" the child, with all the advantage psychologically and fully KNOWING how it would completely gut me extra deep, and worse, saying "I hate you and your child will bear the brunt". And then, had the 'parental wisdom' to make themselves appear the victims.

See, if I'm stupid, I'd rather be stupid than be that hateful or mean. I'm not a 'nice' person per say, not in an altruistic way anyhow, I'm a nice or good person cause I'd feel so crappy if I weren't I couldn't stand it. It's my choice, I want to be good, I did try to be 'mean' once in my life, and to my shock, it was the one and only time people were interested in being my friend....but it scared me so I had to get back to normal, well my normal. Which is FINE with me. What scared me, was I recall watching a commercial with kids starving, big bellies, flies in the corners of their eyes, and I though, "well that's what you get, I didn't tell you to be born there" and thinking that cold thought, scared me, like scared me of myself if that's possible.

So anyhow, I really am 'recovering' from that conference, and all it brought back in memory, and mostly what it brought to me in realization. That last year was not the unfortunate set of circumstances, with devoted but inept staff. Last year, staff was inept true enough, but their devotion was not to my child, not misguided, they had a problem - me - and had to get rid of it. Honestly, even if they explained to me, exactly what was up, I'd never understand it. So maybe I am stupid, and let me stress, if not understanding meanness is stupid than I'm happy to be just that. There are FAR more important ways to be smart, than in IQ, or understanding meanness or being able to perpetrate it well.

Ya know I don't even want anyone to try and explain anymore, cause words are really my enemy - I try, really do, to use them, to explain what is inside my head. But, when I am always in the process of figuring out, never at an end, how can I ever do that, ever really explain. And that's frustrating.

So, well this post didn't turn out like I hoped, which is celebratory. Cause today was a celebration of sorts. School is going along with RDI, though still they believe they are already doing it - cripe I caught non-RDI in every story they told, and when I'd say, "Well, you could even try..." and tell them to do it the RDI way it was cool they'd write it down, and I do think they are eager, I just hope they get how much they don't get, soon. Cause honestly, the theory is so easy, so sensible, but application is a BEAR at first.

Another thing I never thought I'd feel, is what a good thing it actually is, that Vince is so very far behind (maybe mid second grade education, in junior high school) cause really, what argument would I have for RDI, if the academics were decent? None really.

But, I just find it very hard to believe in or trust school. Even the lady I like most.

I can't call my life at all worth while, if BOTH my children don't end up happy in life, that means the CHOICE that comes with social skills, a job with substance, serving others in need (I mean serving in a Buddhist kind of way, not a waitress), a close group of true friends, a loving family.

I'll keep you all posted with school things, might as well finally write that whole thing about last year, since I seem to be beginning to relive it. I knew that would happen eventually, things that are traumatic like hit me waaaay later, then I can be done with it at last. But not till I tell Vincent's story and mine.

So I'll keep you all posted! And every time I come here, remember the support from all of you that kept me sane and afloat in all that unhappiness and desperation and confusion last year.

The RDI system is up, I am loving the e-learning stuff, and am passing the quizzes at the end easily - which I better be after all this time in RDI!!! So that's a nice confidence boost. Also there are webinars, I need to do those too.

So again, the real focus I meant to post, was school is not only 'allowing' rdi in the curriculum, but met with the consultant, she observed and advised them, wrote goals, it will now be written with the IEP - I forgot what they called it, but I asked how we are going to measure the Master/Apprentice and other RDI goals, and they said it was a good question and anyhow, all the RDI stuff including monthly visits from Vincent's consultant will be written into the IEP on some kind of attachment. We'll see, I've seen a lot in writing, didn't materialize into anything for Vincent. They will have to truly apply, what they are taught, be willing to be taught and learn so be willing to feel 'vulnerable' in that sense. I keep telling them, it's no biggie, I need a consultant to be his MOTHER, at least they way I want to be. So, anyhow, we'll see how things go. As always, I'm hoping for the best, but I dunno, it's not possible for me to believe it will happen so in that way I'm scared. But hey, even if rather stagnant so far, school is at least now enjoyable for Vince, barring several bloopers a day from some staff that need to learn how to be less bossy and more subtly authoritative with confidence, not threats no matter how small.

So, who here thinks I'll ever learn to be brief? Yeah ok, I really DON'T want an honest answer this time!

Mili

[peglem]

So, who here thinks I'll ever learn to be brief? Yeah ok, I really DON'T want an honest answer this time!

Mili

I can help you with this one. I truly, honestly believe you will learn to be brief!


But seriously- wish I could make you feel less lousy about last school year, and all the rest of that. Small consolation that you're the better person here-refusing to be mean and nasty.

Anyway, congratulations on at least getting the school to recognize that RDI exists- that puts them way ahead of where they were last year. I know they're still not where you want them to be with it and need them to be, but, YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE!!!! This, in time, will change the way this school approaches education for autistic kids/ kids with autism. MLK would be proud!

[milivica]

Feeling lousy about last year is totally fine, as long as I truly 'learn' and am able to apply it in many different situations. Cause that's part of life, ya know?

I'm almost done with my first MLK book, the next supposedly tells me how to create CHANGE, not just talk about it.

I have now, and for quite a while, wanted to become an ordained minister, but honestly the only things I find are online, push this button and you're ordained! That might be 'legal' but it wouldn't feel legitimate.

I'm unable to find any church that upholds his standards, to even ask the way they ordain, but it's have to be legitimate. Sure would be nice to have sort of a Girl Scout Boy Scout type troop for spirituality that revolves around actions, not words so much. I'd love to be trained to be that person. I don't care if the kids are Jewish, Catholic, Hindu, Muslem, not that parents would likely allow a gathering like that. I think it would be lovely to combine all the 'goods' in our collective man taught religions, with our spirits of 'good', show adults how people of different religions are supposed to act together, only kids could teach lessons like that!

But that would be a way down the road idea.

[frogmama]

One more thing we have in common Lisa, lol. I got ordained last year to perform my sisters wedding after their offiiciant backed out at the last minute and I thought that would be the end of it. Since then though I've done 3 other weddings, co-workers & friends (all 2nd marriages), who wanted to do something non-traditional. Like get married in the woods (well, one was at Applebees :)that's pretty NON-tradional!), or write unusual vows. Since the fancy church weddings didn't "take", they wanted to do something different. I've done a couple of "vow renewal" services too. I felt kind of weird (sacreligious, sorta) when the first person asked me to do her wedding, but it was such a great experience and her now DH was so happy he finally got her to marry him!

Now I've decided it doesn't really have anything to do with religion, after all, you can go to the Justice of the Peace and have a Civil Ceremony. So I'm goung to have fun with it and make people happy! At work I get called the "Not-Quite-Right Reverend".

[milivica]

Oh wow. So how did you become ordained?

Cause there are sites I could go to and 'click' and become ordained instantly, I want to actually learn something, ya know? Like if I wanted to do weddings, no I wouldn't worry about learning anything. But all this MLK stuff I read, he has this 'wisdom' that is timeless and ageless, colorless, religionless so to speak. Anyhow, it's really cool.

[milivica]

Well, feels nice to finally write (and post) a positive letter to school...even more amazing I managed to be brief:

Great, the first appointment with the RDI consultant will be Nov 1.

I see November and December in your email, but not January, that was ok too right? Just want to make sure, 4 all together for now, Oct (or rather nov 1), Nov, Dec, Jan. Plus in between any questions you or **** have you will be able to call the consultant.

I feel Vince has been on 'hold' forever, as other autistic kids...there was just nothing out there. Then this fantastic intervention comes along (RDI) to finally allow him to develop and grow in the same areas all other kids do. To learn without all the behaviors that hampered him. And I want to thank you from the bottom of my mother's heart, for taking my son off 'hold'. My husband feels the same. We just can't imagine, his future education or chances for meaningful employment, without what you and the staff are incorporating.

Thank You,
**** and Lisa ******, Carmen Rose too
(autism effects the whole family)

[peglem]

That should make them feel good about it. And that's important- teacher's get a lot of crap and it so helps you feel good about what you're doing when somebody appreciates your efforts. Being successful with your students is a great high- but when people complain about stuff w/o noticing how successful you've been- kinda bums you out. You feel like...gee, I did this great thing and all they noticed is some little mistake I made. Geez, I'm digressing, but- keep on giving them some positive feedback and encouragement and let them know their efforts are noticed and appreciated.

[milivica]

Overall through the years, I've given staff great kudos more than anything, told them I didn't know what I'd do without them, and meant it at the time. But once I found RDI, wanted my child to progress above a second grade education, not be only babysat and entertained at school and stop being punished for having autism, that's when the 'war' started.

I still don't get the big 'war', I can't believe staff would pick being unsuccessful with Vince, over finally being successful. Tells me their bar is incredibly low for my son. Also tells me their ego was more important than his life. They (in the last school) could have made all the difference in the world to his life, to our family, in a positive way. They chose the opposite of everything right and ethical. I'll never understand it.

So anyhow, feels good to finally have a reason to say positive things. Now I feel like a clock is ticking, will they 'get' RDI before January?

I will say, even with what little they've been doing (not much, cause they are soooo new to it and not realizing all the missed opportunities) Vince has been coming home cheerful and positive consistently. I really believe that is due to school implementing RDI, instead of it only happening at home.

As long as they 'get it' and then really try, I'm satisfied. That's all I expect, try. I totally understand this is a very new concept. It's got to be very strange, for a teacher especially, to not be 'instructional'. I struggle enough with changing my objectives in our usual activities, so I understand. Some child has to 'start' what I know will be common someday, for autistic kids in the school system. Just like the first kids that attended public schools under the IDEA Act, ya know?

[milivica]

Hey all! Been super busy here (in a GOOD way though)

I'm going to copy some of a pm, to update you all about all this trouble I've had with court and the cops and so on. You know, the 'justice' system. Then an update too on Vince and Carmen.

Hey good news....2 days before my last court date (which would be tomorrow) for civil charges the police department filed against me after the D.A. dropped the case (which Pogue knows cause she were there) the atty. for the city called and asked if we could make a deal to avoid court. Before I could tell her "No way" like I did last time she asked, she had her secretary tell me she's dropped the case. So aside from my arrest record and restraining order record, it's finally all OVER (for me). However, I have a long list of places to begin trying, to ever so slightly, change the world for the better. IF I don't get lazy and say 'not my problem I have enough to do' which I doubt I will.

Bad enough, it's 'tradition' that those with the least amount of voice get treated like crap, but disabled kids being abused by staff in our school system, wtf. So, I will finally now, go to the media. I need to finally prepare sort of a summary (do I need to mention brief is NOT my strong point) and send it to everyone from the recommendations given to me, by the president of a place called Families Against Restraint and Seclusion. Getting the letter in a form that isn't a novel, will be the trick. I'm afraid I'll slack, since I haven't done it yet. It's like, things are happy now, and when I try to, I just feel like I'm back 'there' again. Vince is still so traumatized by it all, more info keeps coming from him. I'm so focused and pleased and happy with the RDI, I don't want to do anything else. But hey, someday when my kids get older and say "what did you do about it" I want to be able to say I did my all. I'm finding out, from the MLK Jr. stuff I'm reading, you really really have to get a group, not just one voice. So that's been a huge thing I've done that just gave me frustration and no results.

Gwyn thank you SO MUCH for giving me a starting place, the woman I spoke to was great. It was so different, telling Vincent's story to someone who's heard it, been there, done that, like I didn't need to explain the emotional toll it's taken on our family, him especially.

I have since speaking to her, found another mother I hope will at least provide her experiences with the same school, the same staff including Adolf. When she did a surprise visit to Vincent's old school, they refused to take her to her daughter, physically blocked her from getting to her daughter when she followed her ears to her screams, this mother forced her way into the restraint closet I complained so much about they'd stick Vince in constantly. Her daughter was hysterical, naked and bleeding. She had ripped her clothing off she assumes, because she did not have and was not offered her asthma inhaler. I know this girl, she doesn't have a mean or aggressive bone in her body. Two years later, she is still seeing a shrink for post traumatic stress, as is Vincent. But, in her new school (she is on Vincent's bus actually!) she is in band and all kinds of activities. Funny how kids are suddenly so aggressive under Adolf's 'care', need to be shut in a closet, then magically are fine once out of that school and away from Adolf. This mom went to the principal, the whole shot, got no where.

Dunno if it's more scary that she continued to send her child there, or more scary that I really understand being so overwhelmed and confused with a presumption of competence or good intentions in the teaching staff, that common sense is replaced by desperation and a sort of insanity only a parent with a 'voiceless' child can understand. Though her child can at least speak words, as can Vince, she never told what school was doing to her, just like Vince couldn't tell me he was being locked in a closet with a bucket for a bathroom till he'd fall asleep.

If there's one thing I've learned so far, it's to never assume an adult who is with your child is innocent until they prove it so. Never assume there is a good explanation, or good intentions. That faith has to be earned, a teaching certificate is not a humanitarian or ethics certificate. I think I held teachers in such high esteem, I wasn't getting it just how rotten they can be, they are people, not necessarily righteous, not always accidental in their wrong doings, they can be angry and mean even. I think Peglem and Lisa tried to get me to understand that it is possible teachers don't understand stuff, just cause they're teachers. That it is possible I 'get' things they don't. I mean, I think Lisa and Peglem tried to explain lots that went over my head, from the point of view of a teacher and a mother. Ya know how folks used to think priests were 'above' all kinds of things, they were godlike and stuff, I never understood that cause I was raised around priests, one tried to rape my ma even and ripped her nylons to shreds climbing all over her in our kitchen. I guess I kept thinking there had to be a good reason for what was done to Vince, no matter what I said here, I think I didn't get it that teachers are just people, as stupid and obvious as that sounds, I think I didn't get that. But hey, I got time to learn, I'm not in the ground yet, but I think if I learn much more about bureaucracy my brain is going to rupture.

Ok, so that was a very long post, I've been missing you all here. Vince is still doing absolutely great at his new school. IEP tomorrow, nothing new we have little meetings continually which is fine by me. Going to finally get his progress worded so it is measurable, and not the same IEP goals rewritten so I get all confused and think I see progress when it's stagnant in reality. They are still meeting with the RDI consultant, and are proactive about incorporating it into his day. He listens to staff now, without resentment even. Most of the staff have established the Master/Apprentice relationship with him that comes so naturally for the NT kids. He made a cute Thanksgiving thing in Boy Scouts (a spec needs troop I just love) and one of the 5 things he listed that he is thankful for, was SCHOOL. I'm grateful, but far from 'done'. Lots to do...got a lot of development to gain her, chop chop!!!

And Carmen, the 'forgotten' child (so to speak), she is doing great. I swear that summer camp really did something for her. She hasn't been the same since. She grew emotionally, she's getting over so many of the petty things she harped on, it's like she 'grew', there's no other words to explain it. She even quit biting her nails, which, I can't hardly believe. She and I and dh and Vince, all die hard nail biters. She has quit, me too(mostly) I have no idea how but hope it's a sign of a less stressful family life.

I love you all and miss you all too.
Mili-poo

[milivica]

I'm trying to keep all my info about Carmen's school (Vincent's old school) in the same place, so am posting here rather than starting a new thread.

A few times on this thread I've posted about a child at Carmen's school that is on a daily basis in that f-ing closet Vince was thrown in. He looks to be a first grader, I've seen the drag him down the hall 'Jesus Christ' style sobbing, begging, then his twin brother also crying UNcomforted cause he's upset to see his brother treated so badly. I have no idea what the child is like, from what Carmen says I imagine major ADHD that is made 100 times worse by staff that acts like the teacher in Pink Floyd the Wall. Ok, well, today, Carmen said this child who is maybe all of 3 1/2 feet tall and 45 pounds was removed from school by the police. And, the same assoc prin who WAS my friend and completely betrayed me in the end was smiling and waving to the students watching, I asked Carmen why she was doing that and Carmen said to act like everything was fine. She said a child from her class was distressed by this and asked the teacher what they were going to do to the boy and she was told it was none of her business what so ever and not to talk about it.

Carmen then told me, that she has been telling her friends how school sent me to jail cause of me yelling about not wanting staff to put disabled students in that closet, including her own brother with autism. I can't say as I know how to process that information, I'm glad she feels proud I took a stand, hope she suffers no teasing because of what she's saying. She told me she's told kids that for a long time now, and they all think I'm 'brave'. (ok, sometimes being misunderstood is a good thing!)

So, I really have to make sure I contact the mother of that child, I want to be absolutely certain she has not been convinced by doctors or they school or the 'system' that her child is a bad boy and that's what the problem is. Can you even imagine developing a pattern of trusting your teachers with these experiences at such a young age. I mean, these memories will be with this child his entire life. Unless children enter my daughters school with blind compliance, it's like they try to 'break' them like a spirited horse.

I think of the story another mom wrote that I posted on the current thread about RDI, about the peanut butter sandwich. How would school staff react, if a child say threw the bread in the sink as this child did - they'd throw him in the isolation room aka closet!!! Ya know how the man on Planet of the Apes had a freak out moment and was screaming "It's a madhouse, a madhouuuuuse!". I feel just like that about this school. I really do.

Since when has FEAR or PUNISHMENT built TRUST? What is the objective staff has? I really think, it's to 'break' him to comply, and nothing more.

[peglem]

Do you know who the parent is? I'm so outraged, but also feel totally helpless to do anything about it. The only thing I can think of is to take it to the press and hope the general public is outraged as well. This is so sickening. You know, if a parent was doing that in the home the child would be removed and the parents charged with child abuse. This is so sickening-and them putting on their stupid smiles, pretending that everything is just fine and they're only doing what's in the best interest of the child.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I'm SOOOOOO with Pegs...Call the F'n media! This is...I'm going to vomit!

I could tell from your response to the other thread something was up...

OMG! I'm going to puke!

Mili, I'll call if you don't want to...do you still have my number? I'll call you tomorrow if you want!

I need a minute..........

[milivica]

Maybe it is time for the media then. At least now, I have THREE blatent abuse cases, not just Vince.

Worst case scenario, I'm sued for defamation of character, sent back to jail (only for a year this time) for 'harassment' which the judge warned me about next time it would be straight to jail.

Today I was thinking about how when staff and their lawyer got that restraining order against me, the very first thing the judge said before any of us spoke, was that the IEP was not to be brought up, and that was the LEGAL DOCUMENT I intended to use to make my case.

So all things considered, hell yes. Media time. I mean if that's what it takes. I just don't see how you can FORCE the people working with these children to care, to want to learn what to do for them, to want to do right by them, to listen to that inner voice of ethics, ya know?

I bet you any money that assoc prin and the cops were 'together' in an idea to scare and intimidate that boy into obeying - albeit blindly, with no sense of trust or security, which feels like exposing your guts to hungry lions all day every day 5 days a week.

Let me feel out the mother first, make sure they haven't convinced her this is somehow the boys fault. Sound crazy? Well, once upon a time I felt 'sorry' for school and blamed Vince. God forgive me, but I sure did.

I'll post here again after contacting the mother of the boy, and the mother of the girl who the teacher silenced cause that mom and I know one another.

Ok, peace out!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Mili, I definately DO think it would be VERY nice for you to reach out to the mom in support & all.

But I'm afraid for you to get involved in this! PARTICULARLY since you've been warned.

Last night I just sat on the couch completley numb by this! How in the world can they take a child that has developmental or learning issues and treat them like some sort of common criminal or POW??? It makes NO NO NO sense!

I know I don't need to convince you of this, but I jsut can't make sense of this in anyway! And beyond that, logic tells me that this is not an isolated policy...it MUST be happening else where too...WTF!!!!

I DO think that the public would be outraged by this, and I think they should know!

And another thing that wasd really troubling me is how all the other kids felt...I mean of course siblings would be FREAKED out...but what about the others that witnessed this or that hear about it...what happens to their sense of safety while at school? This is just wrong on SO many levels and I honestly cannot understand how ANY person dealing with kids (no matter what the probelm) could think that this is productive in ANY way!

Crikie, the only thing that I could see as potentially justifyable is a kid that brings a weapon to school or something. Short of that they are simply damaging the kids morale...how the hell does that promote education?

Ok...vent vent vent ...pointless here I know...

I don't know what the best course is though because (and they probably stand on this) I'm sure that the police and court records for the kids are not available for the public, so it'll be as if it doesn't happen to anyone looking for it...like a reporter.

And I'm sure that all the parents have been threatened to keep it zipped, as you were.

This feels like the box me & DH were in at the ER...you've got to be careful and so do the others because you don't want a worse reaction in return.

I wish I could think of someone to contact to help...I wonder if a lawyer might be able to suggest something????

[rbear4]

OMG in the age of positive behavioral supports it just sickens me that they are doing this to a child. Particularly one so young.

I hope you can find the mom. I hope she pulls the boy out of that school and something is done.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Mili, not sure this helps..just trying to google up something, ya know...

thought these might have something in there to generate an idea or info on who may be helpful!

http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_cosa.asp?TRACKID=&CID=442&DID=32918

http://susanohanian.org/atrocity_fetch.php?id=1562

http://www.nbc11.com/news/15183731/detail.html?rss=bay&psp=lifestyle

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/12295456.html

http://www.nospank.net/n-q08r.htm

http://www.autismvox.com/4-hours-in-a-school-closet/

http://www.bridges4kids.org/articles/1-06/WALB1-11-06.html (http://www.bridges4kids.org/articles/1-06/WALB1-11-06.html)

http://familiesagainstrestraintandseclusion.blogspot.com/

http://www.wftv.com/news/3896108/detail.html

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Autism-1010/PDD-NOS-MCD-boy-1.htm

http://www.wrongplanet.net/article208.html (http://www.wrongplanet.net/article208.html)

http://www.ehow.com/how_2093926_protect-civil-rights-autistic-person.html

[milivica]

I'd actually gotten some great leads on where to go with this info from a woman from Families against restraints and seclusion...that I have still to follow up on. I fear retaliation against Vincent, who is still in the same school district. Yet, feel an absolute obligation - and am frustrated cause a few other moms feel the same obligation but I seem to be the only one that wants to take action. I know now that alone, I can't do anything.

Also, just so everyone knows this boy does not have autism - my total guess is he has major adhd now complicated by the total lack of trust and joy he has with staff, that "do what I say or you'll go to jail" they have now made him fear.

I got up late today, still plan to contact the mom. Think it's a GREAT idea for someone other than me to contact the media - or for me to contact them like say on one of those radio shows posing as a naive parent asking what to do about the pst my son now suffers from that school, and what my daughter still sees at the same school. Like put myself in a position to be asked questions, rather than try and tell what happened. Seems to make others more interested when they have to dig for information in my experience. Ya know?

Thanks for the links...but I still have to file an ethics complaint WITH other parents. Send a copy of that to ACLU and the United STates office of civil rights (not the one in chicago that came out, investigated, and said all was well).

If someone here really feels like doing me a favor in this, find what the laws are for restraint and seclusion in schools in Wisconsin - I'm starting to think there aren't ANY AT ALL which is possible. That's something that would be very helpful for any complaints 'we' file. I still have to get the other moms to be willing to be part of this 'we', so far I'm a solo 'we'. Not good.

[milivica]

wow this is good info Kristen, I'll have to read them all later:

school administrators have intentionally misinterpreted the 1997 amendment to IDEA allowing schools to report crimes committed by behaviorally disabled students as a license to call police into the classroom whenever a disabled student misbehaves. Advocates for the disabled claim that school officials call in the police to avoid having to comply with expensive and time-consuming procedures mandated by federal and state laws governing disciplining behaviorally disabled students. At times school district police have expressed reluctance to become involved, believing that teachers call them as a substitute for good classroom management. From the school administrator’s point of view, dealing with behaviorally disabled students involves decisions that are often second-guessed. One school administrator said, “It's complex when you get a student who breaks the law but, because of their disability, they truly do not understand." She recommends that in such situations school officials ask the following questions: (1) Has the student's condition been assessed; (2) Is his educational plan being followed; (3) Does he understand what he did; and (4) Was he able to control his behavior?

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Here's a good question:

SHOULD WE CALL THE PARENTS TO COME PICK HIM UP RATHER THAN THE F"N POLICE?!


Mili, just from my limited experience...he's a twin? Then likely a preemie.

Preemies are notorious for having sensory issues, and self-regulatory problems. There are LOADS of studies about it...but there could be some neurological damages too...

Preemies OFTEN present early on like an ASD kid because of things like this along with common eating challenges which can stunt their growth in many directions.

There is a common belief that Preemies 'catch-up' because as time goes on they find ways to manage their issues, like many kids with disabilities...but what more recent studies are showing is that their learning and developmental difficulties persist into adulthood but manifest is other ways, unique to preemies, and not as easily 'bucketed' into a category such as 'ASD'...

How old is this kid? Carmen's age? But is only 3.5'??????

It's not easy to generalize a preemie because SO many scanarios are possible...but a small kid tells me he's still got a lot of preemie issues: sensory, attention, behavioral...and likely a LOT of spoiledness...preemies parents tend to be on the protective side due to their fragility...

This likely doesn't change too much...but I'd be willing to bet that the mom is frustrated with no real info on how to manage her son's issues and probably getting no where...a familiar thing!!!

Hope I didn't offend any preemie moms...just trying to be REALLY general to give a bit of perspective!!!

I've got a busy day a head of me, but will try to do some googling when I can!

[Nana4&cntn]

Hi All,

I am very late to this forum, I didn't realize until today that there were several other posts behind the forum names. I feel like an idiot!!
The "Emergency IEP" caught my eye and I have tried to read a years worth of posts and just need the need to scream "Where in you f***g Case worker?" From all I have read you may need a lawyer, A Child Protective Agency Investigation. And a huge bat for the Superintendant of schools. They may throw you in jail again for that.

Can I say I am so appalled? I thought we, here in Nebraska were behind, Wisconsin sounds like the middle ages.

I will go back and read the many pages I have missed, I have to tell you my bloodpressure is up, How are you doing Mili? How is Vince? How are all of you?
This is an atrocity, I have to say when I first saw the name Adolf, I honestly thought "Hitler".

You have said you live in a small town, is it possible to have an investigative reporter interview all sides of the equation, including Vincent? The school system would probably give some **** n bull story, I a teacher would be interviewed they could protect them, that is if this is a district policy,

I can't believe the police are being called for 45lb children. And the poor twin. (I have twin grandsons #6) I would come unglued!!

Who is incharge here? What about other parents? Poor Carmen?

I am so sorry to just blow like this I am overwhelmed.

My best to all, you are in my prayers.

I will be calling some of my old co workers to get an idea of what is going on now here. We are so much better, I am so surprised.

Kathy

[milivica]

Hi Nana, thanks for all you said. When all this was going on last year, I really felt I left no stone unturned. I did the best I could without a lawyer which is not someone I'm willing to invest in when I can't know if they are any more vested in my child's welfare than the school was. Ya know? If I find someone I can have faith in, I'd gladly get a third mortgage (if that's possible). I see now besides a lawyer, the big thing I was missing was more moms stepping up to the plate - most of whom do not cause they have no idea what happens to their children at school. And those that finally find out like me, have no idea what to do. I did everything I thought I was supposed to and pretty much was blown off by every person and agency who's job it is to make sure school follows the law. Schools are like some last of the wild west frontier, pretty much have carte blanche. I don't get it. There are so many parent volunteers. I guess people are too willing to believe the child is bad rather than the teacher or the approach the teacher is using. Dunno. But thank you for posting, hearing others shocked actually helps me - sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that finds this shocking - I mean actually I don't find it shocking anymore, short of killing your child schools seem relatively exempt from the law. I don't know how these people live with themselves.

[peglem]

posted by Nana4:
This is an atrocity, I have to say when I first saw the name Adolf, I honestly thought "Hitler".
Just wanted to be sure you understand that Adolf is just what we nicknamed her (not using real names here) on this thread.

[milivica]

Yeah, her real name would be Nurse Ratchet :mad:

Ok, so, I found the boy's name - didn't realize I took a picture of a picture of the boy at school with his name.

Anyhow, I contacted the mother. Thank God (thank you God) she was on the same page as me. She is his and his twin's foster mother, the adoption is about to go through.

She's been refused the opportunity to visit or observe or volunteer at school, just like me. They called children and family services on her just like me - ohhh his behavior is so bad (when we drag him down the hall to the closet) we are concerned about what his mother is doing to him at home.

She said they have put her child in 'that room' since the second week of September, that the reason the cop was there was because the boy for the second time this week had been having severe chest pains and labored breathing. That an ambulance wound up coming - that school wanted to go into the ER with the boy but she had to insist she was going to.

She didn't know what an FBA or BIP was, it's never been offered to her, her child doesn't have one in place...what happens she said is after school starts they tell her he 'talks too much' in class, so they have to remove him cause he distracts the other students. So, since 2 weeks after school has begun, he is isolated and traumatized and physically injured, cause he 'talks in class too much'.

We also talked about how it traumatizes his twin, to see him treated this way. They are extremely close. She has no behavioral issues with either at home. She was a lovely lady to talk to, sounded like sort of 'southern grandma' type of loving mom. I asked if it was ok to call her next week, that I'd like us to meet. I want to show her my plan to file an ethics complaint AS A GROUP (of 3). I want to send all the details to the ACLU, and the U.S. (not the state) Office of Civil Rights. I still have to find the laws against restraint and seclusion for Wisconsin (I have no idea why I'm unable to do that, just cannot find them) as well as school policy which will be easy enough. I also want to go to the media. I am certain now - though am scared to death it will compromise what has been a totally fantastic year for Vincent at school. But what can I do? Say it's not my problem? What will I tell Vince when he's grown, or Carmen, when they say "so what did you DO about how that school treated children mom?"

I feel very relieved, this mom is a whole lot smarter than I was. She didn't fall for the 'bad boy' thing they convinced me Vince was. She totally gets it that her child is getting no where in this school, not learning for sure. She doesn't know anything about the IDEA act or FAPE or anything - though everything I learned about it didn't amount to squat. She told me that who else but 'Adolf' is his case manager. I was already pretty sure of that given the way he is treated.

Now just have to contact the other mom about my wish to file complaints as a group. The one that had 'Adolf' the year before Vince (Adolf has been there three years now with a perfect 3 for 3 victim rate). She was the mom that came to school unannounced, was physically restrained by staff from seeing her daughter who she heard screaming down the hall. When she threw open the door to the seclusion room her child was sobbing, gasping, bleeding and naked - most likely she said, from tearing her own clothes off trying to breathe since they did not allow her use of her asthma medication.

Pray for me to always try and keep my eye on doing what is right, never revenge or anything. Sometimes it's hard not to feel hopeful these horrible school people get what they deserve for all they did to my son and others. I feel the staff has opted to harden their hearts - can you explain what's going on Peg or Lisa6? It's like, this is how we teach, and you the student must mold yourself to our way of teaching, or go sit in a closet. We have the experience and knowledge to avoid getting in legal trouble, and can easily group up to pick off pesky mom's one by one. I just can't stop believing they care about kids, like I can't seem to believe anyone in a job of children, wouldn't care despite all evidence to the contrary...but it's like they only care about the kids that fit their mold, the others are 'trouble' and who cares about them. Gotta sacrifice a few for the many. And it doesn't have to be that way, there need not be any sacrifices for God sakes, these are little children. Is it possible to actually feel ok about how they treated my son, doesn't Adolf know on some level she is a wicked b!tch destroying young lives, getting her rocks off on seeing them beg, getting her rocks off on 'control'. WHAT IS IT that I'm seeing, I don't understand. I really don't.

[MaryEvelyn]

http://www.wifamilyties.org/WFT%20newsletter%2005-05.pdf


Milli second page.

"As a result of numerous cases of inappropriate
use of seclusion and restraint of
children in many school districts in
Wisconsin, the Wisconsin Coalition for
Advocacy (WCA), working with parents and
other advocacy organizations, put together a
bill in the last legislative session, which
reflected a combination of the best elements
of other states' statutes and regulations which
govern this area. Most recently, a two-part
series on Madison's Channel 27 News featured
a time out room in use at the Abraham
Lincoln Elementary School in Monroe,
which was locked and had no adult supervision.
WCA is currently investigating that
case. The Department of Public Instruction
investigated the case and found numerous
violations of both building safety codes and
special education law.
Despite these investigations,Wisconsin
currently has no laws or regulations which
specifically govern the use of seclusion and
restraint in our public schools, although the
Depart-ment of Public Instruction (DPI) has
issued draft guidelines on this topic. To view
the guidelines, you may access them on the
web at: www.dvi.state.wi.us/dvi/dlsea/een/doc/
secrestrgd.doc."

[MaryEvelyn]

What do you know the link for the guidlines does not work. However there is a link to contact the Governor wonder what would hapen if we all emailed him?????? do we feel up to it Moms, mass e-mail freedom fighters :eek:

To contact the Governor
Room 115 East, Capitol
Madison, WI 53702
608-266-1212
or email from: www.wisgov.state.wi.us/contact.asp

[peglem]

Mili, I have no explanation. But, dang, if Wisconsin has no restaint laws, surely they have child abuse laws! How dare they make laws requiring parents to send these children to school and refusing to make school a safe place for them to be. I hope you and these other parents can kick some serious arse! And maybe its petty of me, but I'd get a lot of satisfaction out of revenge on this group of a$$holes.

[peglem]

I've got no problem emailing the governor, but Mili'd have to PM me the name of the school or he wouldn't know what I was talking about.

[milivica]

http://www.wifamilyties.org/WFT%20newsletter%2005-05.pdf


Milli second page.

"As a result of numerous cases of inappropriate
use of seclusion and restraint of
children in many school districts in
Wisconsin, the Wisconsin Coalition for
Advocacy (WCA), working with parents and
other advocacy organizations, put together a
bill in the last legislative session, which
reflected a combination of the best elements
of other states' statutes and regulations which
govern this area. Most recently, a two-part
series on Madison's Channel 27 News featured
a time out room in use at the Abraham
Lincoln Elementary School in Monroe,
which was locked and had no adult supervision.
WCA is currently investigating that
case. The Department of Public Instruction
investigated the case and found numerous
violations of both building safety codes and
special education law.
Despite these investigations,Wisconsin
currently has no laws or regulations which
specifically govern the use of seclusion and
restraint in our public schools, although the
Depart-ment of Public Instruction (DPI) has
issued draft guidelines on this topic. To view
the guidelines, you may access them on the
web at: www.dvi.state.wi.us/dvi/dlsea/een/doc/
secrestrgd.doc."

Wow. Thank you for this information...that explains why I couldn't find any laws, there aren't any.

The Wisconsin Coalition for Advocacy, was the one place I thought would help, they went through all the motions with me...in fact the woman working with me has a 17 and 7 year old on the spectrum. She was probably lying, who knows...I just know that in the end, despite all I told them, they ASKED my son's school if they could send a person to see if they could sort of help with the FBA or BIP, someone qualified, the school said no cause they knew what to do or whatever, and poof WCA told me they cannot investigate, cause there is no case. HELLO!!!! Is no case??? It's all posted in this thread somewhere.

I also tried to work with DPI, the Dir of Student Services was contacted by them, I dunno what she told them but after they spoke to her they were absolutely unwilling to help but were willing to advise me that maybe I should contact a lawyer, and all the places I already contacted.

The advocate with an aspie lawyer for a daughter was so comforting at first, then just sort of blew me off. She was part of SEPTA.

Office of Civil Rights found no laws being broken, or some such thing.

Superintendent of schools told me go back to the Prin and Dir of Student services cause he doesn't know about Special Ed.

I forgot just how many ways I tried to SCREAAAAAM about what was going on, all the while still wondering if I was the one that was wrong somehow, wasn't seeing something that was clear to everyone else. Ya know?

Thanks Mar!!! Seriously, I was like 'woah' when I read that post. Gotta get going, I'm going to re-contact the mom I spoke to today, on Monday. I want to try and see if I can figure out someone that knows what kind of questions to ask, that she can talk with but I'm doubting that'll happen.

Also I'm going to contact the mom who first had Adolf as her girl's case manager tomorrow.

[milivica]

Since groups of moms have had to fight our Governer tooth and nail after he removed ALL funding for kids with autism, I don't consider him a potential ally. But I do live a stones throw from the capitol, so could deliver some experiences we moms have had straight to our, geez I don't even know the titles, our senators or what ever. Who ever is the governers bosses so to speak. However, I do think a mass email is a great idea - maybe better to a tv station? Try and find out if there are any media folks here in Madison with children with a disability? So their heart will be in it. Another idea I was given was to find a chat room of Wisconsin moms who's children have experienced abuse at schools.

All the steps I plan to take and advice I received was from a mother who is now the President of her state's Families Against Restraint and Seclusion. When I get the three statements together from myself and the two other moms, I think I'll email her again. She was really knowledgeable, and I seem to remember she 'been there done that' with her child.

I think Gwyn here is also super smart about this kind of thing.

I feel like this is the first real step I've been able to take, since last year. I can't tell you how honest to God traumatized I still am about it. Just seeing this thread title makes me feel so sick, I can't describe the sickness, like knowing your child was violated in multiple ways - the worst being spiritually, I feel disgusted as if I were violated and participated in his violation by doing nothing about it to stop it....well first I didn't even REALIZE it. How oh how I let my son down. And don't get me wrong, I'm not 'blaming' myself, I'm glad at least now I know better, what I mean is for some reason this is one subject that absolutely sucks me into the past as if it were the here and now. I think that's why I haven't taken more action yet, I can't 'function' when I'm mentally back there instead of here.

Ok, so, deep breath, forget last year for now - while taking statements from other moms about their kids going through what mine did, with the same people at the same school.

What a sh!tty time for my mirror neurons to work aye?

Ok, another breath, I can do this. I have to. It's my UNenforecable obligation (MLK).

I do have a fantastic inspiration to focus on, Carmen telling me last friday that she's proud of me for trying to help stop this, so much so she bragged to a few kids that I went to jail when I tried to make the teachers stop. As worried as I am she will suffer some kind of teasing for this, apparently so far it's more of a 'cool' mark on me. Anyhow, nothing more driving than feeling like doing this will make my children proud of me, helps get me over the hump of the feelings I feel about 'then'.

I'm babbling.

[Nana4&cntn]

Mili,

I am having a major brain prob today, can't figure how to get this web page to you so here goes,

Well I still can't get it to work. I went to the Federal level.

started at www.us.gov , then to the health and human services, then to DD program guidance. Then went through the acts themselves, there is specific speech regarding abuse, neglect, restraints etc.

I ususally, just stumble upon things, then cant figure out how to save or transfer links. I am not very computer savy, we only had 3 for 60 workers way back when. Any advice would be helpful to me,

I am still searching,

Take care all of you, I am cheering you on and will continue to find more info. By the way Wisconin Web Page is just no info at all.
Kathy

[milivica]

Thank you Kathy, I'll try that when the kids are back to school. I'm not puter savy either...back 'in the day' I was in accounting as a clerk so did all the boring figure work, I didn't even have a CALCULATOR at first let alone a puter.

I really have to get back to this book that explains how people like Martin Luther King, Jr. (who I admire more than I can say) got change to happen. Generally, my unintentionally strategy has been to get myself all wound up, drive myself insane spinning my wheels getting no where, and in the end I'm the irritant or bad guy, not the people at school. I have to educate myself (gawwwwd when does the learning end, yeesh!!!) as to how to be EFFECTIVE. I'm pretty sure one of the best tools for change is 'numbers', you can't be one you have to be many.

Also, if you don't know I have aspergers, so I could really really use some people fighting with me that can read body language and nonverbal cues and so on. I hear words, but can't hear the things not being said. I'm sure that's been a bad hindrance, along with my bull in a china shop demeaner.

[milivica]

Ok, the mother who was physically restrained from seeing her child, when she made a pop visit - only to find her locked in the closet, bleeding and sobbing and naked from ripping her clothes off trying to breathe without her asthma inhaler, is in. She is going to look up her records, she kept notes from each and every conversation with Adolf!

Also, my good friend who was treated very well by staff, even Adolf, got 30 minute meetings every week, was never banned from visiting etc... was not excluded from creating the BIP and in fact created it and explained how they all needed to comply with it. She is going to write about her starkly different experience, however, the thing she has in common with us is that Adolf screwed her child's behavior up so badly, she made no progress at all.

Again, I really do feel Adolf is the 'puppet', far from the only criminal in this. If I as a principal know I hire a semi-sociopath to work with kids, see what I'm saying?

Funny thing was, when the mom I spoke to tonight asked me how things were going for Vince and Carmen now, I said GREAT, I couldn't ask for better at the moment. Then I paused, I said, "So I guess I really can't tell you why I'm pursuing this, I guess I don't want to feel like I'm saying everything they did to my kid and other kids is ok now, cause now I'm getting what I want". Like selling out on my own kid - ya know? I mean, the school he is in now, have the same admin as last year. Why the 'royal' treatment this year? If me selling out knowingly (not sure if that's why things are going so well this year) is the reason things are right now, who says they won't up and pull the plug on Vincent weather or not I follow my conscious?

So anyhow, I'm sorry, but I can't help imagining the kid at school now being put in the closet for 'talking too much' during class, within the first 10 minutes of class every day, imagining him skipping happily down the hall for some morning OT to help him stay more focused. Or what ever will help him to do that. Ya know?

I feel like I'm doing something stubborn and unwise by pursuing this, but that's better than feeling I'm doing something cold or unethical. I think if Vincent wasn't still so scarred by this, I could drop it. I want to drop it! Do I need the additional work or hassle or reliving of negative memories, no! But it's like I can't drop it. So please pray for strength for me not to woose out, and to be brave and ethical and righteous, and especially for nothing I do to negatively effect my kids. Then again, if filing a complaint about such blatant abuse would cause negative effects on my kids (revenge) then it was only a matter of time till they were treated badly anyhow I figure. Maybe my actions will prevent future abuse for not only kids in our old school, but for my own kids in their current school.

Ok, so that's it for now. I'm going to hash through this giant thread, all the zillions of emails, create a time line that I can prove. One mom and I will meet tomorrow, when we all three get our stories on paper we'll meet together and share, and I'll do the 'footwork' getting our children's stories sent to all places that I was told to. Also, the mom I talked to today thought our local Channel 27 News was a great idea. I believe the mom I spoke to yesterday liked the media idea too. That might be a great start, to get other parents to write their stories, so the three of us would be greater in number.

I just want this to go to the right place, so others with higher powers will make those accountable that are accountable, and create positive change. Ya know? Sure would be cool if some disgruntled teachers came forward too, aye? I no way can believe, all the staff there is okay with what goes on, they just may be unable to do anything about it, or unwilling?

[peglem]

If it hits the news, the school staff will be instructed to refer all inquiries to whoever handles that for the district- its like an unofficial gag order. However, some may speak if their name is kept out of it. I'm so glad you have the strength and support of other parents here. I'll be praying for the three of you to be successful in this effort.

I think Adolf is at the core of the problem (which is why Vince is doing so much better w/o her), although why the district would continue to employ, support and defend her when she is so obviously dangerous is something they should have to account for. Honestly, if that mom had not shown up, her daughter could have died from asthma problems...scary stuff!

[Nana4&cntn]

Hi All,

Okay so I worked with adults and can understand dealing with folks who have been institunalized. Oh, the Horror Stories!:( I am pretty good at hunting and thought I was a good advocate. You ladies put me to shame:o

I read for hours today, and am so amazed at what you have accomplished.
I am ashamed to say I have some learning to do on terms and initials for things.

I was reading about rcr and if the word weren't spelled out I would not have known what it was. Here we would call it shaping or engaging. The other initials I am in the dark. If ant of you have a spare minute in your incredibly busy schedule, I would be interested to know.

Mili, these are some Email address' I found wifacts@execpc.com. wroblbm@dhfs.state.wi.us and this is the biggest, but I would say to leave for last Stephanie.petska@dpi.state.wi.us. I am sorry I couldn't figure out how to make them links. These are from a site I found, and I cant even tell you how. NorthCentralRegionalRecourceCenter You probably know this already tho. It is funny tho I typed in something somewhere and was referred to Lincoln Nebraska. Wisconsin isn't in this region.
I will try in the future to keep try to track of where I go.

Again, My hat is off to you all.:cool:

tootles
kathy

[milivica]

Thank you for the time you took to post those links, but Stephanie at DPI...that's the one that blew me off after the Director of Student Services spoke to her. She kept asking me "were you recording your conversations?" with sort of anger in her voice. I finally asked her exactly what was her job there, what exactly does she do, why exactly am I speaking to her...she never did answer me, did say though that she couldn't do anything for me and gave me an email of some guy. He never responded.

DPI doesn't do squat - been there done that. I have to go through the U.S. Dept of Education, siting things like 'failure to thrive' believe it or not. I have this stuff written down, it was from the judge in my town that threw out my case when school arrested me. I called him prior to knowing I'd wind up in his court (which I didn't since he threw it out).

Wisconsin facets, forget it - good luck getting help from them. Years back I did get an advocate from them, who was on the same track as school, when I didn't agree with some things at the IEP, she totally sided with school, it was really weird. Cause before the meeting I thought we were on the same page. She kept telling me I was 'lucky' cause her school apparently was so terrible to her and her child she felt my school was 'nice'. Or something.

Office of Civil Rights came out from Chicago, IL and investigated school, only to send a ton of documentation stating how everything I claimed was contradicted by school staff. Duh, ya think? So that was a waste.

Don't eeeeeeven want to try Due Process, cause school continually suggested it. I'm sure that's an area they know how to navigate, plus have lawyers. No thanks. Ya know?

You have to understand, fighting your school and asking for help doing so is pretty much like being the last human in Invasion of the Body Snatchers. You're really truly alone, the worst thing is your child is really truly alone. I guess that's why I stalled out. I put so much effort into this, and got no where, nada, zero, zip.

Peg, if Adolf is really the core of the problem, then how come the prin and admin and other staff so totally advocate everything she does? I mean, I get the whole staff sticking up for staff thing, the nt social stuff. But the prin and admin tell HER what to do, not the other way around. OH and btw, did I tell you the Prin's husband is the Prin in another school, so they're like a husband and wife Prin team. Eek.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Mili,

I need to read all that's been posted since my last post...I just briefly skimmed, which only made me more confused! But looks like you are getting loads of good info, tips and advice!

I've got another busy day today, but tomorrow should be better. I just wanted to ask you what you still need at this point. I'm happy to do whatever I can...

gotta fly for now...

[milivica]

A summary of this entire thread with important points said, and unimportant points left out so I can start sending it with what ever the other moms statements will be.

Well, you asked :o

Ummm, one of them lawyers that sues people and doesn't charge me or the other mothers. Civil rights lawyer or Mr. & Mrs. Wright being my first choice ;)

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

hee hee hee!

Would you like me to research lawyers????? Or is that a joke too?

I know here, in MA, many of the law schools take work for the students that is backed by the law school credentials...I think there is a fee, but it's minimal...with something like that, if available in your area you'd actually be getting VERY enthusiastic attention and probably several minds being put on it at once, including of course the professors. Not sure they have anything like that in your state though...

Also, I would imagine that an advocacy group might have some recommendations, perhaps even someone already working on a case like this????

And for the record, I don't think that your idea to contact...oh crap can't think straight, what's his name???? The guy that was involved with the Jena 6 kid????...well, I don't think that's such an off beat idea! I know that your issue is more about his Autism and less about his ethnicity, but you could EASILY twist that if you wanted to...and frankly I'm thinking whatever it takes to get the support and attention....go for it!

Ok, seriously, in your reply after my post you asked for some laws to be looked up...I think you're all set with that now?????? But if there is anything you need help researching, seriously let me know....just didn't want to scour through those posts...k?

ok, gotta go get ready for our appointment this afternoon...

[milivica]

Who was joking (it was completely unreasonable, but hey if you're on a bipolar high and bored by your second night awake, go for it!)

Do you mean Al Sharpton, cause both he and Jessie Jackson - wow I don't know them personally of course but I think they are anything but altruistic. I did consider the consequence of contacting them, I just feel like I'd be working with the devil's advocate. I hate to say that, but I just don't understand them at all by comparison to MLK, Jr. who spoke of love and equality for EVERYONE.

Martin Luther King III was there at that Jena 6, I definitely would love to contact him.

It does 'just so happen' that all the kids who are thrown in this closet are black. One was hispanic and one italian. No whites in a predominantly white school with no black teachers either. The other white students Adolf has, do not get thrown in there. Mind you, the little twin is not even autistic so is able to benefit from nt strategies of teaching and behavior.

It's just really hard for me to believe it's a black thing, I mean a child is a child. I think more likely it's a matter of who they know can and can't afford legal help. But who knows, aye?

I tried high and low to find a lawyer last time around (last year) but maybe with 3 moms, someone would be interested.

What do you think would be the best way is to let other moms who's children went to that school know about what I want to do...in case they want to add their child's experience?

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I think you're just gonna have to poke around to see if you can dig up some more incidents. The only other way I can think of would be if the media could generate it...

Mili, I just don't know what to say right now...I can't even express my shock...I probably shouldn't be, but I'm even more outraged if that is at all possible...I REALLY don't want to learn that this is racially motivated, but it sounds like just when you thought it couldn't get anymore disgusting, it DID!

Alright...I just wasted a TON of time watching Eli Stone...I gotta get some snacks & things ready before we head out...I'll see what I can google up for legal support.

See if you can google up MLK III's e-mail. My mom talks about MLK Jr & JFK and I went to MLK Jr School...I've been raised on a lot of his philosphy...I don't know a lot about his son, but if he's anything like his dad, well...it's certainly worth a shot I think, can't hurt right?

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

This is the best I could do on the fly...

http://www.realizingthedream.org/

Gotta go...

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Sorry for the formating...got this here: http://www.asw4autism.org/wiresorc.htm

ADVOCACY

FACETS (Wisconsin Family Assistance Center for Education, Training and Support), 2714 N. Dr. Martin Luther King Dr., Suite E, Milwaukee, WI, 1-(877)-374-4677, 1-(414)-374-4645, Fax: 1-(414)-374-4655, TDD 1-(414)-374-4635. FACETS, a Parent Training and Information Center funded by the U.S. Dept. of Education/OSEP, provides information and referral, individual support and training about special education to Wisconsin families of children with disabilities. Workshops include: IDEA Rights and Responsibilities; IEP; IFSP; Mediation; Transition from High School; Self-Advocacy; Effective Communicaton and Challenging Behaviors. FACETS serves families from 6 regional offices: Central (Wausau), Fox Valley (ASW office), Milwaukee, Northern (Minocqua), Racine/Kenosha, Southern (Madison). www.wifacets.org (http://www.wifacets.org)


Wisconsin Mediation Project, 1-(414)-288-5535, provides information about using Wisconsin's Mediation System to solve disagreements about special education between parents and schools.

Special Education Advocacy and Consulting ********, P.O. Box 557, Portage, WI 53901, www.sped********.com, is a new fee-for-service source of assistance for parents of children with disabilities having difficulties with their child's school. Donna Hedrich, a former PEP advocate for this area, offers e-mail and phone consultations. To access the service, go to the web site or write to the address given above.

Wisconsin Coalition For Advocacy, 1-(608)-267-0214 Provides free advocacy and legal assistance for people with disabilities. When WCA is unable to take a case, it is often able to find an attorney who will take the case for full fee, partial fee, or pro bono (free of charge). WCA also participates in systems advocacy to minimize the need for individual advocacy or litigation.

Client Assistance Program (CAP), 1 West Wilson St., Madison, 1-(800)-362-1290 or 1-(608)-267-7422 (Madison), assists if you are having a conflict with DVR regarding services or lack thereof.
Advocacy and Benefits Counseling for Health (ABC for Health), 152 W. Johnson St., Suite 206, Madison, 53703, 1-(800)-585-4222, or 1-(608)-261-6939, info@safetyweb.org, is a non-profit law firm that helps you locate health care financing, offers counseling on the application or appeals process, and advocates for you when a conflict arises with an insurer, public benefit program, or a provider's billing department. You are eligible for services if you have children up to 19 years old and are unable to obtain or afford health care, or if you have a child with a chronic illness or disability. www.safetynet.org
Parent Education Project of Wisconsin, Inc., 2192 South 60th St., West Allis, 53219, 1-(414)-328-5520. Provides workshops for parents on special education and parents' rights, the IEP, the transition from school to adulthood, school inclusion, and advocacy skills. Also provides telephone assistance and individual advocacy.
Legal Action of SE Wisconsin/ PatD'Alessio (educational attorney), 1-(414)-278-7722 ext.3069 (Milwaukee), 1-(414)-654- 0114 (Kenosha).
Marquette University Children with Special Health Care Needs Law Project Professor Jay Grenig 1-(414)-228-7090.
Stadler, Ron (good educational law attorney), 16655 W. Bluemound Rd. 1-(414)-827-1700, Brookfield, WI
Wisconsin Council on Developmental Disabilities 1-(608)-266-7826, 722 Williamson St., P.O. Box 7851, Madison, WI 53707. Full Citizenship Initiative 1-(414)-272-4500, 230 W. Wells St. Suite 502, Milwaukee, WI 53202.

[milivica]

Hey Kristen you crazy research woman you! Thank you so much, I hate to say I already tried all but the last 2 you listed. Wisc. Co. for Advocacy was especially disappointing, they're the ones that after taking tons of info and my time, said there was 'no case' - I think mostly cause school would not let them send in their autism professional. Gee, didn't know they had to get permission. But hey I will check the last two I haven't yet.

Ok, so talked with the mom of the twin. She's a calming kind of personality, good match for me hyper-anal leap before ya look personality. We're going to meet and talk on Wednesday, try and get some idea what to do next. I left a message for the other mom, we'll see if she can come that day, let's hope so! I told them both I'll bring the really nice colored graphs Vince now has that actually measure his progress, or nonprogress.

While I was talking to the mom, I got a hair brained idea about the twin that keeps getting locked in the closet for 'talking too much'. Here's the thing, he just went to the ER from school for chest pains and labored breathing. School called her, "Ohhh we were soooo worried, is he ok? What did the doctor say" cause I'm sure they're like oh crap what did the child tell the doctor. The mom said the doc said there was nothing 'physically' wrong with him. I asked the mom what she thought of getting a note from the ER doctor or her family doctor to give to school telling them he is not permitted to be isolated or in the closet. Even school CAN'T go against a doctor's note, right? I also told her in seven years I sure never got a call from school when my child was sick or hurt, hmmm - she was like "yeah, they must be nervous". Man, she's smart.

Also, she confirmed to me that her child who every day gets locked up, had NO behavioral problems at his old school. His old school is a stones throw from this one, wonder if when this gets rolling, his old school records could be a big help to show how it is the staff that is 'bad' not the child.

What are the odds that some teachers will speak out, can teachers do that without identifying themselves and losing their job? I assume this is why this goes on.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Here's something I stumbled on, just an interesting tid-bit: http://heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18459

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WisconsinOrganizing4AutismRightsNow/
Wisconsin Organizing 4 Autism Rights Now, or WOARN is an organization for people with autism, their families, friends and professionals to come together to work towards the following: 1. End the wait list so that there is full funding of appropriate levels of treatment for autism spectrum disorders (ASD) 2. Funding for services for individuals with ASD throughout their lifespan at appropriate levels 3. Tax credits for families who need someone to stay home to care for someone with ASD 4. Funding for research into ASD 5. Funding for respite care for families who need such services WOARN will serve as a clearinghouse for legislative information, will distribute calls to action to members who can then act on those calls, and will work with other autism organizations to advance these goals. We are used to fighting for services and our needs, WOARN will make these efforts concerted, thus making them more effective. A squeaky wheel gets the grease, and a lot of squeaky wheels together will make such a loud noise they will be unable to put off the grease! If WE do not use the wheels of democracy that have been designed to help the citizens benefit from their government, then we will be run over! TOGETHER WE CAN!

It doesn't look very active but wonder if there isn't something helpful in there...

This link looks as though it has many of the same groups as listed above, but there is a section of parent support groups...just wondering how many parents there may have had similar experiences: http://www.autismmadison.org/directory/documents/Resource_Directory_2005_001.pdf

http://www.wisbar.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=ProBono

http://www.milwaukeeyounglawyers.com/AboutMYLA/probonolinks.htm

http://www.ncsconline.org/WC/CourTopics/ResourceGuide.asp?topic=ProBon

ok, it's bed time...

[peglem]

From Mili:What are the odds that some teachers will speak out, can teachers do that without identifying themselves and losing their job? I assume this is why this goes on.

Usually news reporters will keep their sources anonymous if the person does not want to be identified. I think, technically, teachers cannot be fired for talking to the press, however, you know there are ways for the school to deliver unofficial reprecussions. I'm thinking staff who has been having a tough time with this policy and have been afraid to speak out may do so if they are assured that they will not be identified.

[FabTXMomma]

I know I've read articles online about teachers that were fired for speaking up for the rights of special needs kids.

How's that for making a claim without a backup source?

If I remember correctly, she sued the school district over it and won. I'll have to see if I can find anything on it again.

There can definitely be repercussions for teachers speaking out, even if they are not outright fired for it. All schools are political machines at heart. My mom and mil are both teachers. My dh was a teacher for 4 years. They stay out of the cliques and popularity contests that the other teachers participate in. It always amazes me that no one seems to understand that maybe high schoolers act the way they do b/c MOST of their teachers and administrators do too.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I wonder if you could find a teachers group online...you may be able to get some insider perspective...

just dropped in to say, after I posted my last post, I walked into the living room where the TV was pn, there was an ad for LivingtheDream! How's that for weird! I know it's February...but until today I've never heard of that group...and there it was!

I'll do a little googling now...

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

http://www.wi-rsn.org/meetfiles/meetminmar04-05.htm

Guidelines for Use of Timeout & Physical Restraint are available on the DPI website at http://www.dpi.state.wi.us/dpi/dlsea/een/doc/secrestrgd.doc, and should be shared with all staff. Remove any locks from timeout or sensory rooms, as this is a fire code issue. A lock that must be held to be functional is acceptable. Some schools have wired all locked doors into the fire alarm system so that they are released when a fire alarm goes off, which is another option. All areas of a timeout room need to be visible from the outside. Be sure that people supervising the room are set up to view it when a child is in the room. It is important for building staff to have a method/policy for dealing with the news media when they come into the school. The building principal was caught off guard in the recent case and it resulted in a distorted portrayal of the situation.


http://teachers.net/states/wi/topic32/6.24.02.20.10.53.html

http://dpi.state.wi.us/sped/com06001.html (http://dpi.state.wi.us/sped/com06001.html)

http://dpi.state.wi.us/sped/doc/secrestrgd.doc

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nfpb=true&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED427272&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&_pageLabel=RecordDetails&accno=EJ778109&_nfls=false&objectId=0900019b802215c1


http://www.wi-rsn.org/meetfiles/meetjan07-08.htm

http://farsnewsarticles.blogspot.com/

[Isabelle]

any act of cruelty or abuse on children has to be reported and spoke about it no matter the consequences, that's the only way to stop it, bring it forward to the light.... good luck!
protect carmen, but hopefully you join together with parents of children that have witnessed abuse like carmen did.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Mili, I've been reading this forum for over an hour!

http://www.teach-nology.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8&order=desc

I didn't find anything that applied directly, just got sucked into the conversations...there is one guy who's a total jerk..chocolate man or something...ignore him!

Aside form that, its'a teaching forum that includes parents and students!

There is a section for special needs...I would post there to see if you can generate some insight or something from the teachers, and perhaps some students too!

Cna't decide though if it would be better to pose as an appauled teacher or an upset parent...I guess an upset student would work too...anyway, there it is...

[milivica]

Carmen was eating lunch, she was sitting alone cause her friend had left...Carmen told me that the Assoc Prin (the one that was my best support at school, till I wanted RDI, then called the cops on me and played victim and completely supported Adolf) she has asked Carmen when dh goes to work, when he comes home, what is his schedule.

Carmen being nt, somehow knew how to avoid and answer, and give a nonanswer answer.

I'm ready to confront her and explode. Not just for this, but for all the things I never got to confront her about for an entire year. So I'm not even going to send an email or contact her in any way. I've learned on thing this year, shutting up is a pretty good strategy for me, especially when I'm very emotional. So I'm just recording this incident here and will add it to the growing list.

What do you all think of this? My inclination is to file a police incident report, just to have it on record. I take this as a threat, especially since school knows the kids and I are here alone all night.

Dh says she just said this to Carmen knowing she would tell me, and I would react.

I will react, that's for sure - but I want react in a productive way. Second choice, get her and the rest of that staff in a ring and unload....grrrrr....be nice if I really did feel that way, be easy. I really just want to understand WTF went on last year, and why she'd ask a question like that?

I'm sooooo proud of Carmen. She's not only nt but she is wise. I've questioned the level of awareness I've given her in this mess. Of course, when your child has to use her savings to bail you out of jail, after she's watched mommy taken away sobbing in cuffs - what choice did I have? She was already involved, and confused. Now she's proud of me cause of it, no longer fears it will happen - and says if it does that 'I' shouldn't worry about 'her' cause she'll be fine, and knows I'll just come right back home. I like that better. And she now feels FREE to tell me the things that bother her that she sees at school, even when the teachers try and intimidate the kids into not telling their parents "when so and so goes to the time out room it is NONE of your BUSINESS and you are not to talk about it!!!" is what the teachers tell them. Carmen knows she can tell me, and seems to have grown increasingly LESS anxious all this year, and I've heard no more upsetting stories about how the 'in' crowd treats her. In fact the 'leader' has been being nice to her for several months, and, she's come to forgive and understand another girl in the 'in' crowd, she 'sees' how sad she really is and why she treated her badly, now they even get along. So Carmen is really growing.

Ok, babbling, trying to give myself relief - point is why the hell is any staff member there let alone the one who called the cops and had me arrested (for yelling, after school, at my sons abusive case manager) why is she asking my husband's hours? She could find that out from the other school Vince is in, they know.

What do you all think? I don't do 'games'. But I'd like to grasp this motive. I don't like it. How can I 'cover' myself and my kids when dh is gone all night, 'cover' my kids at school, and make this totally inappropriate questioning of my daughter known, and make sure it doesn't happen again? I did tell Carmen she has my total permission and support, that when anyone asks her a question she does not feel comfortable answering, she can tell them it's her personal business and they shouldn't be asking...or she can say "you have my home number, you can call my mommy or daddy".

I need advice, I'm really sick of my bad habit of leaping then looking. I want to act more wisely.

[Mother's Heart]

Did this interrogation of Carmen just happen this week?

[milivica]

She said within the last 2 weeks. She smiled and told me, "I meant to tell you that day, but I'm real forgetful - I get that from you mommy!" Honestly, I am pleased she forgot about it, because that tells me it's not bothering her, messing up her head at school, do you know what I mean? Be nice had she told me that day, sure. But I'm glad she's not getting messed up by any of this, this is not what I want her to recall about her school days someday.

She also said she seems to smile at her a lot and ask her how she's doing. To me, that means she is trying to find 'dirt' to 'use' in some way in the future should she need it.

Or, she might just ask how she is and smile a lot, to overcompensate for her feelings about me, or maybe she feels some guilt.

I dunno. I don't like games or game players - most especially when it's an adult playing with my child.

[moose53]

((((((Lisa)))))),

You're right -- that's NOT an appropriate question to ask ANY kid, let anyone one whose parent you had arrested :mad:

That all smiley-smiley 'thing' sounds, to me, like she's feeling quilty and trying to make up for it.

Given the circumstances of the past year, *I* would let the police know that she's been questioning my child as to when I (and my children) are going to be alone. It just doesn't SOUND RIGHT to me. It gives me a real creepy feeling. I rely on my instincts a lot -- they're usually right.

Hugs.

Barb

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I agree! I think you are right to be upset. And BIG kudos to Carmen for being so sharp!

I thin I would document this somewhere too...but I (probably due to recent events) didn't come to the conclusion that she was being inquisitive to come by and harm you when DH isn't there to protect you...I came to the conclusion she was looking to dig up dirt to report you somehow...

That's probably trauma talking though and not logic...

This is VERY worrisome! Without making a thing out of it... cuz I agree that Carmen needs to NOT be concerned about this crap...I'd see if you could find out if it was before or after the most recent school incident. Carmen withnessed this right? How many know that she did, like were there a ton of kids that saw it, or just a single class...

And for the record I totally think your directions to Carmen were great! Try to make sure she doesn't have attitude though...just nicely ask, "why do you need to know that, how is that your concern?" Or "I'm not comfortable answering that, can you call my Daddy for his work hours?"

Great Job! Cuz I know my initial reaction would not have been so level headed!

Totally CREEPY! Be careful Mili...I'm even wondering about your posts here, I'm so unnerved about this!

[milivica]

Moose, I hear you about reporting it to the cops, at least to have something in writing - but - you have to remember I live in a relatively small town and the cops here know me and can't stand me. I'm sort of the 'Roman' of my town (no offense Roman!) so I worry how that could be contorted. Which, is why I posted it here, and to my two friends here who would do the right thing versus the popular thing should anything weird happen. Luckily for my family, if someone came in here while dh was gone I wouldn't hurt them I'd kill them. I know myself well enough to know, if I was in a position like that I couldn't go half way, I'd probably black out and kill them. When I'm in extreme fear, when I wind up safe I can't remember how I got there or what happened. It happened twice in my life. Once I posted here, when I thought a huge shark was under my float when a rip tide had carried me out.

Ok, Kristen...I'm trying not to be creeped out, cause that's the last thing I need to do to myself, but yes it is creepy. But again, I know if push came to shove I'd protect my family without hesitation. Anyone that would try to come in here better kill me if they plan to stay alive themselves. I don't know a mother who isn't like that then again. At least every mother here is for sure, so you know what I'm saying. Plus my ma's dh is an ex-homicide cop of 30 years, I'll make sure she tells him, he is connected in Chicago from past working relationships (I don't mean connected like the mob or something, I mean professionally) so I feel we are 'safe'. Though I've considered my posts here, and some school lawyer cut/paste and editing to make a case against me, I'd feel just plain wrong deleting this, some parent(s) someday will read and benefit from all the stuff here, gain experience without making my mistakes when they try and get help for their child. Basically, I just feel this stubbornness, beyond that really, that if I'm trying to do right even if I'm scared, like hell if I'm going to woose out, it would kill me to cave in to any cowardly feelings I have. I was so fearful as a child with aspergers, scared of everyone and everything. I'll never go back to that now that I finally got me some balls (bravery or what ever). I like to do what's right, often I don't, but when I do I'm not backing down cause that's the part of 'me' I have always been no matter how aspie, that's the part of 'me' I like.

Ok, back to business:
this won't do much for Vincent since last year is gone...but it may well help the child who now has Adolf, or some of you:

http://www.wrightslaw.com/heath/state.advisory.panel.htm

[peglem]

Knowing your history with the local cops, I would not go to them. It sounds like this administrator is either trying to get in good with your daughter to get her to confide personal stuff or wants to be certain her a$$ is covered in case she is acused of mistreating Carmen because of last year's travesty. The first thing I thought of when you said she questioned Carmen @ when dad is home is that she was trying to find out when she could call to talk w/o you answering the phone...wants to deal with dad instead? But, then that makes no sense, it would be up to Carmen's teacher to contact you regarding anything about Carmen's progress or behavior. I wonder if some adult at school overheard Carmen bragging about her brave, jailbird momma and reported it to admin? Or, maybe another student asked her about it? I can just hear some little kid: "Ms. Stabbinthebacker? Why did you have Carmen's mommy thrown in jail?" You can bet these kids are going home and telling parents, too- so maybe some of them have asked about it.

What I don't think is that this woman feels guilty about last year- seems inconsistent w/ everything else you've said about her. She justifies her actions to herself to live with them. From her perspective, she probably believes she has "reason to be concerned" about Carmen's well being, since she's living with that horrible mother.

This crap would sure make me paranoid!

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Pegs, I bet you are right about the rumors...but I bet she DOES want to talk to Mili since she knows she can ruffle her feathers easily!

And that's the creepy feeling I got too...Mili, seriously, be REALLY careful!

[milivica]

I wonder if some adult at school overheard Carmen bragging about her brave, jailbird momma...

Hmmm, the way Carmen says this has a much nicer ring to it somehow (lol)

I hear you both, I'm not afraid so much as aware. I mean, if someone is planning something, be it my school admin or a common criminal (ironic I see no difference) I can't do anything about that, ya know? What will be will be, I wouldn't get stupid about my actions, leave doors open all night etc, but I don't do that anyway. That comment only freaks me out in terms of what that could mean for my kids, ya know? I do have an IEP Thursday, dunno if that could have anything to do with it, but then again school has always flat out asked if dh would be there, so that wouldn't raise any flags with me, where as this did.

Well, I have told dh, you guys here, my two friends, my ma for her to tell her dh. Admin hardly needs to harm or kill me, I blew the whistle far and wide an no one whose job it was to protect my child listened anyhow. I really pose no threat, ya know? And truthfully, if school was to call home, they would prefer dh answer, trust me.

HEY, actually, one of the 'dirty half dozen' that tried to pursue charges and court and all, DID call here regarding Carmen, might have been the same day the admin questioned her about her dad's hours. I dunno. When she called here, she totally was not the person that should have called....I was waiting for a call from the staff person I was speaking to about Carmen's new IEP, the phone rang and when I said 'hello' one of the dirty half dozen launched into yapping and yapping (and she had me on speaker phone) like nothing had happened last year, took me a few seconds to grasp this whole thing....when I did I interrupted her and told her this was awkward and totally inappropriate for her to call me, she asked why, I said considering the fact she called the cops on me and had me thrown in jail then filed a restraining order cause she's sooooo scared of me - then before I could say more I heard the phone make lots of noise like she scrambled to pick it up. Then I talked to the staff who I originally asked the question to.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Well that puts my mind at ease BIGTIME!

I think I'd just wanna somehow see if it was roughly the same time...but that would make perfect sense!

[milivica]

It was around the same time. I really hate when an adult is such a wimp, they go through my kid. Well, guess that's what happens when you jail and file a restraining order against someone, you sort of put yourself in a position to not be able to contact them.

Like I told her way back when, Karma is really something. I do believe for sure what comes around goes around. You send out positive energy, then positive energy is attracted to you. You send out negatives, others that send out negative vibes are attracted to you.

I've always been ready and willing to work things out no matter how badly I felt I was treated, I'm more interested in keeping the bridge from burning for my kids' sakes. But this bridge is ash. She's not used to that. Probably can't believe I haven't spoken to any of them to date - I figure if I do, what can I gain but more trouble? I GET IT, they really don't want to do right by my kids, there was no misunderstanding or misfiring of mirror neurons when they called the cops, ya know? That was deliberate.

Well, I can't meet that other mom today cause we're having a blizzard...I think. Hard to tell, I went to the window but can't see anything, everything's just white. Hee hee.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

EXACTLY Mili...you've got enough to deal with...why bother if the aren't doing anything for you???

And frankly, why would you want that sort of malignant negativity in your day anyway?!

Oh well! their loss!!!! They could have really learned somthing from you & your devotion!

[milivica]

I got solution today I felt very comfortable with. Carmen's new IEP will be done by next week, where I get to write parent concerns, one of my concerns will be the Assoc Prin approached my daughter when she was alone at lunch asking her a series of questions about her dad's work schedule, when he's home, when he leaves...when we're alone. Due to her awareness that Carmen would certainly inform us of this combined with her previous history with our family, we understand this as a threat at most, very inappropriate at least. Carmen felt incredibly awkward, all conversation with Carmen should be of appropriate school related content.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

That sounds reasonable to me. But I'm no expert on how stuff like that can come back to bite someone, so I'm gonna reserve judgement.

Just say that you could maybe work on the wording a bit...

"the Assoc Prin approached Carmen when she was alone at lunch asking her a series of questions about her dad's work schedule (when he's home, when he leaves, when we're alone, etc). Due to the inappropriate nature of these questions Carmen felt extremely uncomfortable and informed us of this. Combined with the APs previous history with our family she interpreted this as a threat. All conversations, particularly with the AP, and Carmen WILL be of appropriate school related content and specific to Carmen."

Your wording made it sound like Carmen IS awkward and that conversations shouldn't be had with her for that reason...

[Mother's Heart]

okay:
I think it's good that you stated in there that conversations with Carmen should be school related. But, I can't shake the thought that this might not fit under the parental concerns heading on the IEP. Only if you can make it about her education since that section is put in there for you to present "Concerns of the parent for enhancing the education of the child". Your statement seems to be too specific...like it's reporting/documenting a complaint about a past occurrence, instead of simply expressing a need that Carmen has for her education. I wonder if it will fly.

[peglem]

I agree with Mother's Heart here, that section of the IEP is really for you to state your concerns about either things on the IEP or issues that would influence the success of the IEP goals. I also think this may result in some backlash, but gosh, these people are so unpredictable that who knows what that might be. Ms. Stabinthebacker is using bullying tactics here, in that she is being intimidating w/o any behavior that could be specifically identified as aggressive. So, she can always do the "But I was only...." poor innocent me act.

If Ms. Stabinthebacker's crap is not bothering Carmen too much, you may just want to let it go, especially since Carmen is reporting it back to you- you may be actually gaining insight as to what's going on at school.

[milivica]

Ok, I'll listen to ya Peg. Being as you're a teacher and all. I hoped this would expose her and the dirty half dozen enough to trump any future 'games' like this that USE my kids.

[milivica]

FYI...Great IEP today (Vincent's) but will need another meeting to finish up.

[milivica]

Well, as you can see from my other thread where I need a lawyer, obviously your worries were correct, and I am now officially scared to death about why school wants to know when dh is gone.

[milivica]

The assoc prin asking my daughter what her dad's work schedule is, when we will be alone...coupled with the recent letter from the district's legal team, is enough for me. I really can't handle it no more. So I'm doing the only thing I know to do with bullies, expose them. I will be going to a law conference in a couple of weeks, I need to wrap up summarizing this mega-thread so I can take it with me, and so I can send this also to ACLU, U.S. Dept of Education, U.S. Department of Civil Rights, Martin Luther King III, and any other agencies/persons who's job it is to protect my child. I want to keep it at 10 pages max. Here is my cover letter and ending, which are 3 pages (three short pages, not three margin to margin top to bottom pages).

(cover letter)
Hello, my name is Lisa and I am a parent of a child with autism. I too am on the autistic spectrum. I would very much appreciate your guidance, and if you are able - your professional legal help. It was an ongoing spirit draining process to attempt to get FAPE for my son in his school system, they seem ‘exempt’ from Civil Rights and ADA laws, and, as much of the 1975 IDEA Act as they so choose. I am still stunned at what school staff can do without accountability, things for which any parent or guardian or 13 year old babysitter would be arrested; things that would be a crime if done to a non-disabled child.

My story...The person I most admire is Martin Luther King, Jr., please read my plea for help not as a request for vengeance but a plea for Civil Rights for my son and for all children in the special education system who may not have a ’voice’. I am more than willing to be a ’Rosa Parks’ for autism, and need a genuine ethical intelligent articulate ’King’ to guide me, this is my obligation - please be my ‘voice‘.

My son's story…on 10/17/06, I called an emergency IEP. My son was starting 5th grade. Though in the same school since kindergarten he now was angry, struggling and in anguish and tears daily. His new case manager was making significant decisions, though misguided I assumed she was well intentioned.

The IEP that day was the beginning of a chain of events that lead to my discovery that my 10 year old son was being mentally and physically abused daily by his case manager; to my discovery she has a history (amongst parents) of abuse with other children entrusted to her previously; my discovery that there isn‘t much parents can do about it. The more my child became able to describe the things done to him (shut in a closet for hours with a bucket for his bathroom, until he fell asleep), the more administration and staff supported not my son but the case manager. It began to feel like I took a crazy pill every time I tried to sort out what my son had told me and what the staff avoided telling me. The more desperate and adamant I became, the worse her treatment of my son and the more support she got, the more frantically I cried out for answers; then the greater the intimidation and threat I received from the school district and their legal staff.

I did the worst thing I could have done for my child, assumed his new case manager and staff I’d known so long shared with me a common set of morals and ethics about children, trusted they felt a dedication to my child; I made an almost fatal presumption, a presumption of competence.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chronological events:
(this will be 7 pages long or less - since I'm so verbose chronologically will be the shortest way. Anyone that wants to do that for me, please do, go ahead, by all means go for it - that is a vague 'hint' aspie style, not sure if ya get it but I'm trying to get out of doing this part, hee hee)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(below is the second to last page)
Back in November of 2007, I sent this email with the name of my school district to Families Against Restraint and Seclusion along with pictures of the seclusion rooms, and a restraint chair. My email said:

Just an update...I'm looking forward to what ever communication is supposed to take place with myself, and who ever can do something about these seclusion rooms.

Also, I have spoken with a mother, who the year before my son had the same case manager as my son - like my son all her daughters 'behavioral' problems began with getting this case manager *** ***, and ended when she no longer was her case manager. Like me also, this mom pleaded with the higher staff in the school, the principal, dir of student services, to give her child another case manager. She was not successful, and despite coming to school unannounced, and finding her daughter NAKED AND BLEEDING AND WITHOUT HER INHALER in the seclusion room with a concrete floor where she'd banged her head, her child remained under the 'care' of *** *** for the rest of the year.

We are a bunch of very desperate parents, who have really lost our way between what we would have ever guessed we would have tolerated for our kids, and what we wound up tolerating. Looking back, it's hard to explain, how we become so blind to what should be common sense - the behavior problem's our children bear the brunt for, belong to the teaching and administrative staff.

Please contact me asap.
***********
***-***-**** *****@yahoo.com
Thank you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(page 10)
On 2/07/08 I got an envelope delivered by the police to my home. In it, was a copy of my private email (page 9) so I assumed the organization sent it to school. They said they did not, the only possibility was they sent it to another organization for help or advise, and from there it was forwarded. Just as when I tried to get help from Office of Civil Rights and WI Coalition for Advocacy and anyplace else, I (as requested) gave the name of the school and staff.

So, the letter from the lawyer is below, I do not know what the school told the lawyer of course:

Dear Ms.****,

As you know from previous litigation, my firm represents the ****School District (the "District"). I am writing on behalf of the District to demand that you immediately cease and desist from defamatory conduct on the internet aimed at both the District and (teacher's name).

So that you understand the basis for this demand, I have attached the text of one of your false and defamatory communications uncovered by our investigation. This is your one and only warning. If any additional defamatory activity takes place -- on the internet, in conversations or in writing--the District will file a lawsuit against you to see injunctive relief, compensatory damages and punitive damages.

At this time I am also notifying you of your obligation to preserve all electronic mail, computers, hard drives, electronic files, diskettes, backup takes, CD-ROMSs, DVDs, USB or thumb drives and any other electronic storage media, as well, of course, as all printed material in your possession or control related to the District and any of its employees. This obligation arises from the likelihood of litigation due to your conduct and your failure to preserve evidence may result in a trial court sanctioning you for such misconduct. If litigation is commenced, the District will have computer forensic experts analyze all of your computers, electronic mail accounts and storage media for evidence. Any attempt to destroy such evidence prior to litigation will also be uncovered by those experts.

Govern your conduct accordingly.

[The Pogue]

Don't say a word about the case of the little girl, whose parents are alleging they found her naked and bleeding in a cement-floored timeout room. If they are pursuing that claim, they need to be the ones who attest that it happened. Everything they have told you is hearsay, and not repeatable or admissible. If they recant, or it comes about there's some inaccuracies in their story, your whole case with Vince is apt to be thrown out because of it. You need to focus only on what has transpired with Vince.

Second, it's not enough to say Vince was locked up for hours. You need exact dates, with estimated beginning and ending times of his confinement. If Vince gave specifics, such as "I was there for all of art and music time", or "I didn't have speech today because they put me in the closet", document that.

[milivica]

Pogue, I hear you about not bringing the other child into this, I hear you about here say. I agree, but...

The letter from the District's attorney to me (page 10) is what prompted me to pursue legal action and create a summarized version of this thread. The letter (page 9) I'd sent to Families Against Restraint and Seclusion is only being sent because it was enclosed in the school lawyer's last letter to me, he refers to it in his letter to me where he threatens all that suing of me...see? The other child's story will be written and pursued by the mother who told me this, she said she kept meticulous records. It will be one of 4 stories we mother's are telling, about the treatment of our children, by 'Adolf' and our school district. So I'm not 'reporting' the treatment of the other child, it so happens to be enclosed and referred to as defamatory in the Districts attorney letter to me. The most recent letter, that prompted me to pursue legal action finally (so this can be OVER for Vince, for other kids currently in seclusion, for me).

As for the dates and times, I will document that on the pages between the cover page and the last 2 pages. I have school records - so I have what school documented he was in the seclusion room, which, in the last few months of school was several times daily. :( Naturally, it says only what Vincent's 'violent' actions were, never who did what to get him so upset.

I'm also going to get and include a copy of the police report, the report by the prosecuting attorney for my city that states I was not arrested (hello, I was held and questioned for hours, cuffed, fingerprinted, mug shots, in a jail cell...ummm that's arrested) since I hope to pursue police misconduct which most certainly it was - not just cause they never read me my rights, but cause you don't lock up a mom for yelling and call it felony disorderly conduct - after telling my husband that you didn't forget about that complaint (I filed a complaint 2 years ago against the cop there, he got in trouble over it). What really prompted me to try and get legal help with police misconduct though, is not just the suggestion by a veteran cop, but cause when the assoc prin asked Carmen all those questions about when her dad works and when we're home alone, I have NO ONE to report this to...I can't call the police department in my own town. I need to make sure I can do that.

So, ending the fear and damage done to kids at school, ending my state of fear of being sued and losing our home (the only thing we got) and fear of my police department, ending all that is where I'm coming from. As for the ongoing memories Vincent has, I take that still day by day, that is something I have to MAKE SURE doesn't happen again in this district.

Did that make sense?

[RDeyes]

Just wondering if you or the other moms ever filed due process, that would be the first step for most complaints, not the doj or ocr.

[milivica]

When I was going to file, and speaking with DPI, they made it crystal clear they knew and were on the side of the Dir. of Student Services so I didn't wind up doing that. Also during every IEP they kept telling me over and over to file for Due Process if I had a problem with anything, they seemed eager to have me file, that made me suspicious, ya know? They all know how to navigate Due Process and have attorneys too, I wouldn't. Neither would these moms.

Also, this is a matter of Civil Rights first. Dunno if legally it is, but to me it is.

Oh also, I seem to recall I could not file in more than one place, by filing with OCR I could not file for Due Process or OCR would have to drop it. By the time OCR completely wasted the year, it was too late to file Due Process anyhow. Plus, why bother once they make it clear they're ALREADY against me and on the school's side so clearly even I could read between those lines.

[peglem]

I just don't see how they can claim you were never arrested if you had to post bail. Can they just pick people off the streets and not let them go until they get some cash out of them? (That actually wouldn't surprise me.)

[Mother's Heart]

arrested vs charged? is the same thinig?

i wonder if the other moms got letters?

[milivica]

Mother's heart, since I too was unsure of the lingo I said, "well I was in a jail cell with other inmates, that's arrested right?" and the city attorney was flipping through all kinds of paperwork, like somehow that little fact was left off of everything - don't ask me how.

Peglem, I hear ya. And I have the receipt for the bail we paid when it was returned, so it's not like anyone can explain that. Not to mention I can describe every inch of the cell I was in with the other inmates (ladies, they were just regular folks not scary or criminal or something). I'm guessing the reason there is now so many problems with what is on file and what happened, is cause none of it was legal to do to me, everyone was making up the law as they went along cause they could, and cause I couldn't do anything about it. So now it will just make me look truer and them look more corrupt.

Oh, bummer, the lawyers wrote me back and said they don't do my kind of case. The made recommendations and gave me a number so that was nice. I think they thought I was looking for a School Law person, I'll send my final copy of what all happened because they do Police Misconduct and Civil Rights, the second has always been my main concern anyhow. With Civil Rights, everything else (school law, police misconduct) falls into place and doesn't exist.

[Keggy]

I am mostly just replying cause I saw 622 replies and wanted to get my two cents in on this post (again).
Arrested is not the same as brought in or held.
However if you paid bail you were arrested.
Were you photgraphed and fingerprinted?
If you paid a fine then you paid a fine, not the same as bail.

[Keggy]

Read your last few posts... sounds like you were arrested.

[Keggy]

You need to call your local bar association for help....

[milivica]

YES. And the lawyers that can't take my case gave me the number of the Bar and all. So that's what I'll do next.

Don't try and read all this, I'm going to post a summary of it all as soon as I finish. Then you and others here can tell me the necessary and not necessary parts as I verbosely struggle to be brief!

[milivica]

Ok, I really don't think I have another edit left in me, this is it:

Hello, my name is Lisa and I am a parent of a child with autism. I too am on the autistic spectrum. Please read my letter with patience, and excuse all my poor communication skills.

It’s been an ongoing spirit draining process to attempt to get FAPE for my son in his school system, to get myself included in his IEP process especially as a parent on the autistic spectrum. His school seems ‘exempt’ from Civil Rights and ADA laws, and, as much of the 1975 IDEA Act as they so choose.

My problems primarily began when I wanted to observe my child at school. I had previously been told not to by the principal (I have it in writing) and had obeyed her for years. I then found out the law according to the IDEA act and NCLB says I can observe, participate and volunteer in my child’s class. After quoting the law in my emails and in person (I have all documentation) I received something called an M-1 by the Director of Student Services, banning both myself and my husband (though he had never once observed) from observing - no reason, just BANNED. It was in effect from October 2006 - until currently. I contacted the Superintendent, who did nothing.

I have recorded IEP’s where the Director of Student Services interrupts me quoting IDEA Law, telling me that a little information about the law can be dangerous for me. I have emails pleading to no avail, that school and parent work together as per the law. My son was going downhill there - and no one argued he was regressing academically and behaviorally - but did not want me ‘interfering‘…”you are the parent so parent, we are the teachers so let us teach“. I continually asked to be allowed to observe, explained I could not be a fully participating member of the IEP team without observing. Didn’t matter, they even held the IEP without me there. Refused to give him his related services. What good are any laws, that cannot be enforced????

Part of the problem was, that after all these years, I came to see how ineffective school was with my son. Progress written on IEP’s looks impressive cause of the verbiage, and it’s hard for a parent, to realize just how low the expectations have been and how little progress was made especially when school does it’s utmost to keep the parent uninformed and in the dark. As long as I was telling school what a great job they were doing, as long as I was confused, everything between us seemed fine. But as soon as I found what worked for my son, and asked school to implement it - the trouble really began. “It sounds great, but where are we supposed to get the money for that?“ said the school psychologist. I found that so strange, because school had sent 3 staff (though one left early to see her kid play a soccer game) to a 2 day workshop I also attended, that clearly explains how to eleviate the behaviors that impede the learning of children with autism, including my child.

After this 2 day workshop, at home we started the intervention or remediation (called RDI) for my son. It produced so much progress everyone noticed his growth, and it continues to work wonders for him. It works on ALL the behaviors that had impeded him. Myself, my son’s state case manager, and his autism consultant all tried to work with school at the IEP’s to get them to incorporate the techniques that work for him in the school environment. School was the only place, he was not only doing poorly, but was becoming increasingly aggressive and out of control. School agreed and said they would implement the RDI program and even wrote it into the IEP…but they never did. I was so told by the case manager, and have in her own words in writing as well…they only put what they did on the IEP cause I wanted it there, they had no intention of implementing it, didn‘t know how to, and weren‘t going to learn (that would involve time and money).

I have emails from both Wisconsin Coalition for advocacy and Office of Civil Rights (both agencies emailed me) stating school said they were implementing the techniques on the IEP. The more I reported them, the more they simply lied and ‘poof’ they were out of complying with the IEP or any laws they broke. Even DPI gave me the run around, refusing to help at all once the Director of Student services got in touch with them…I don’t know what she said, but DPI was very angry at me, wanting to know if I was recording our conversations…I wasn’t, but why would they even ask?

In time I learned the reason my son was so violent at school - the discipline of choice, locking him in a small room for such lengths of time that he’d fall asleep, and, giving him a bucket rather than letting him out to use the bathroom. All under the authority of his new case manager. The new case manager, who had a teaching philosophy in which…you must fit into her style autistic or not, and if you don‘t you are locked in seclusion until you comply. And I don’t understand this, how this can be done to a child. I tried to get school to understand what they were doing was detrimental and counterproductive to my son, and to my shame for some time believed my son was the ‘bad guy’, I had no idea his noncompliance or violence was the end product of the total lack of competence by his new case manager. The more I tried to explain where she was going wrong, the more she got angry…eventually though she is my contact on the IEP, my emails were routed automatically to be bounced from her school email. I have all this in writing from the Associate Principal, who rigged it so they‘d bounce.

I don’t even know where to begin, with all the laws under IDEA, Civil Rights and ADA the school broke for not only my son but for me, his mother and his advocate - so he had no advocate, school wouldn‘t allow it. I have a note that goes clean back to kindergarten, that’s how long this has been going on. We can’t even get our school to put the wheel chair parking in the spot nearest the door…it is absolutely impossible. See, this is a rich school district, could it be sheer coincidence that every parent who’s child has been abused and is currently abused at the school is not wealthy and nonwhite - and has my son‘s case manager? All those I have seen and whose parents I’ve spoken to are anyhow.

Eventually I had no option remaining but to remove him from school. It was the day after they called the police on me for telling the case manager she was incompetent, and a detriment to my child. It was she and I and another teacher, no children were present of course. I was reading his IEP I the car, waiting for him after school in the parking lot. I was till banned from observation, stayed as far away as I could for fear of more legal trouble. It was April 2007 now. Once again my son came to the car sobbing and couldn‘t tell me what was wrong. I went to her room with him, asked why my son was so upset, I had to do her ’dog tricks’ in order for her to talk to me. My son had to sit ’here’ and I had to stand ’there’ and she had to talk first, etc… , fine. I tried to explain to her what went wrong and how to better treat my son, I was till holding the IEP I’d been reading in the car, I asked why she wasn’t following it? Mind you, I had all year asked for a different case manager, had not been permitted to communicate with her by phone or email for months plus banned from observation, and, the IEP‘s I did attend were run by the Director of Student Services, who did all the talking while everyone stared at her…one meeting was so bad, even a staff member cried and told me in the hall, “I feel so bad about how they‘re treating you“. Ok, back to my arrest…with my son still in educational limbo, as he had been all year, with what I thought was finally the roadmap for her to follow on the IEP to save him - she told me she did not know how to follow the IEP, was not trained to and would not be following the IEP - and the wonderful thing is, since they called the police on me, they took the case managers statement - and she states exactly what I’m saying to the cops, so I have it in writing from the cops on the police report! Finally, some proof for my son.

But proof of what? Of what I cannot get help with, him getting FAPE or LRE (he is not with his class all day long and was even not allowed recess for over a year till I found out - when he was finally able to tell me).

The down side was I went to jail. So, the cop interrogated me in a room for 1-2 hours, no tissue or phone or nothing, answer his questions or go to jail, that’s what he ordered me. I kept saying my 9 year old daughter was alone in the car in the school parking lot - didn’t matter to him, I couldn’t leave or call. He promised me if I kept answering him, I wouldn’t go to jail. So I did what he said. He verified the teachers even stated I did not throw anything, or threaten to, or threaten to harm them, or even so much as swear. He kept asking me if I knew why so many squads were there, I was in a room so couldn’t see how many were there, so kept saying no. I have no idea what the teachers told the cops, but would love to hear the 911 call…according to the cop, the associate principal compared me to Cho! Considering I didn’t threaten violence, do violence even after the case manager hurt me, considering I didn’t even swear, I’m not understanding why 911 was called, but do understand why I went to jail.

Believing I was going home since I did my all to answer the way I thought the cop wanted - mind you, during my interrogation, my son was let in often to see me falling apart…it was horrible, I didn’t know how to not look like I was crying, I feared he would think he had to protect me and get violent, I didn’t know what to do so I‘d tell my son the cops were good and mommy was wrong, to hopefully keep him from freaking out. The cops had taken him elsewhere in the school, who knows what was said…the cop kept telling me I was really lucky to have such a ‘nice’ school if they chose to file a complaint against my son (that day he had bitten his case manager…she was refusing to let him eat his lunch, he could see his tray, she would not let him out of the seclusion room until he performed some of her ‘dog tricks’ I call them, so in my son’s words, “I was hungry, so I bite her”…anyhow due to that and since he had been violent in the past they could take him and lock him in a juvenile facility. I can’t emphasize enough what it’s like to have autism, and try and navigate through this.

So, I was supposed to leave and go home, but wound up in jail. Why? My husband later told me when he bailed me out that a cop I previously filed a complaint on, showed up outside school, he was now a lieutenant - when he saw my husband in the parking lot he told my husband in front of another cop “I didn’t forget about that complaint” then he pointed his thumb back like a hitchhiker and said, “She’s going to jail”.

Eventually I found out my charges, they were felony disorderly conduct…never did go to trial cause the DA dropped it. My bail was refunded (yes I have the receipt). Then my city tried to file charges against me, oddly they were unaware I was arrested and the city attorney argued that I was not arrested…I said, “what do you call handcuffed, fingerprinted, mug shots taken, held in a cell for hours with inmates and refused medical attention or a bathroom?“ then the city dropped it’s case against me so that didn‘t go to trial either which is good. I was injured by both the case manager and the cuffs, but my physical wounds are healed. Not the memories or fears. Actually it’s getting worse. Cause it goes on and on, not just for me but other children and parents in my district.

The last day my son went to school, was the day after I was in jail in 4/2007. As crazy as it sounds, it never occurred to me I could simply not take him back. Please don’t judge me, but at the time I thought school would be satisfied they had me arrested, and they’d feel ’monitored’ and treat my son with accountability now. After that day, my son told me he’d been locked in the ‘paws room’ (they have 2, one is the size of a large closet, one is like a double phone booth) until he fell asleep again, and again given a bucket rather than allowed to use the bathroom. So I never took him back. And it wasn’t the whole school, but just his case manager that made me fear for him there…I was afraid she’d orchestrate it so he’d hurt her, it would have been easy at that point, he was already over what he could endure, and I didn’t realize the extent of her abuse until months later when he could tell me. But I did know if he made one more violent act, albeit instigated by his case manager, he could be taken away. The cop made that clear. It was useless to contact the cops about what they did to my son, they knew about it the day before after all, and did nothing but warn me my son could be taken away.

He is 12 now and in 6th grade, this all happened last year. I am still stunned at what school staff can do without accountability, and parent’s total lack of ability for help for their disabled children for things that seem clearly illegal. As time passes, I have found our story is not at all unique. I am not the only parent in our district wanting help, just the only one that hasn’t given up since it seems so futile. He sees a psychiatrist still who can verify the trauma he still lives with, it’s till so raw. It‘s so unfair, it‘s wrong. It was supposed to be his 5th grade, not his Viet Nam. My son is still traumatized, as are other children I know, as am I. Other children whose parents hit the same dead ends as me, but who want to pursue help for their children (currently at the school) or justice for what was previously done. Where is the accountability? The help or law to go to, for us parents to help our children? The principal and staff are simply exempt from the law it seems. I have a non-autistic daughter that goes there, she tells me stories of how the disabled children are treated, the stories always center around this new case manager every single time…and poor nonwhite kids, every single time. The other mom’s and I speak about our experiences being threatened and intimidated there, our children’s traumas there - and we have no one to go to that can make school stop abusing our disabled children, provide FAPE…and honestly it seems a nationwide epidemic, hardly isolated to our school.

As I said, this started in October of 2006, yet any documentation I send or help I try to get, just gets me in more trouble. For example, here is the last plea for help I sent in November of 2007 to Families Against Restraint and Seclusion…it was a private email in which I also explained what another child went through with this case manager, with the mother’s permission of course. My email said:

Just an update...I'm looking forward to what ever communication is supposed to take place with myself, and who ever can do something about these seclusion rooms.

Also, I have spoken with a mother, who the year before my son had the same case manager as my son - like my son all her daughters 'behavioral' problems began with getting this case manager *** ***, and ended when she no longer was her case manager. Like me also, this mom pleaded with the higher staff in the school, the principal, dir of student services, to give her child another case manager. She was not successful, and despite coming to school unannounced, and finding her daughter NAKED AND BLEEDING AND WITHOUT HER INHALER in the seclusion room with a concrete floor where she'd banged her head, her child remained under the 'care' of *** *** for the rest of the year.

We are a bunch of very desperate parents, who have really lost our way between what we would have ever guessed we would have tolerated for our kids, and what we wound up tolerating. Looking back, it's hard to explain, how we become so blind to what should be common sense - the behavior problem's our children bear the brunt for, belong to the teaching and administrative staff.

Please contact me asap.
Lisa ****
***-****-****
Thank you.

I used *‘s in place of the names, cause on 2/07/08 I got an envelope delivered by a cop. In it, was the letter I’d emailed to Families Against Restraint and Seclusion (above) and a letter from the school District’s lawyer.

Dear Ms. ***,

As you know from previous litigation, my firm represents the **** School District (the "District"). I am writing on behalf of the District to demand that you immediately cease and desist from defamatory conduct on the internet aimed at both the District and ****.

So that you understand the basis for this demand, I have attached the text of one of your false and defamatory communications uncovered by our investigation. This is your one and only warning. If any additional defamatory activity takes place -- on the internet, in conversations or in writing--the District will file a lawsuit against you to see injunctive relief, compensatory damages and punitive damages.

At this time I am also notifying you of your obligation to preserve all electronic mail, computers, hard drives, electronic files, diskettes, backup takes, CD-ROMSs, DVDs, USB or thumb drives and any other electronic storage media, as well, of course, as all printed material in your possession or control related to the District and any of its employees. This obligation arises from the likelihood of litigation due to your conduct and your failure to preserve evidence may result in a trial court sanctioning you for such misconduct. If litigation is commenced, the District will have computer forensic experts analyze all of your computers, electronic mail accounts and storage media for evidence. Any attempt to destroy such evidence prior to litigation will also be uncovered by those experts.

Govern your conduct accordingly.

I don’t get if the lawyer knows about what the school does and wants to stop me from telling, of if school is lying to him. I don’t get why I’m getting a letter from the lawyer, didn’t know they were investigating me, how they got my private email.

I cannot imagine how to cut and paste our story in a manageable size - but have recorded it all since day one. (I’m terribly verbose I’m told). I hope I’ve given you information that is relative, but have so much more I‘m not telling you. Everything I will state has proof in letters, emails, paper trails and witnesses. You can’t imagine the volume of emails I sent trying to work with school. I thought for years school knew what they were doing with my son, was acting in his best interests, was practicing all the ethics and morals they preach to kids, I had a blind trust just cause they were teachers I guess. Most IEP’s were recorded, and had my son’s State Case Manager there at my request, her interests are my son and my son only, that’s why I wanted her there. Most IEP’s also had my son’s autism expert there via conference call.

I have paper trails and witnesses and proof, of police misconduct, failure of school to abide by the IDEA Act for my son (or even the handicapped parking spot laws!) and Civil Rights, and ADA. I thought some staff there were really good people, how can they do or say nothing, about what they see happening?

Why I mention my arrest and police misconduct/revenge…the associate principle recently approached my 10 year old daughter at lunch and questioned her about what her dad's work schedule is, when we will be alone...that coupled with the recent letter from the district's lawyer is enough for me. I really can't handle it no more. So I'm doing the only thing I know to do with bullies, expose them. If I can’t find help from the words I’ve written here, I just don’t know what more I can do. I can‘t even go to my police department. Please help.
A little about me. I am a parent on the autistic spectrum, the person I most admire is Martin Luther King, Jr., please read my plea for help not as a request for vengeance but a plea for Civil Rights for my son and for all children in the special education system who may not have a ’voice’. I am more than willing to be a ’Rosa Parks’ for autism, and need a genuine ethical intelligent articulate ’King’ to guide me, this is my obligation - please be my ‘voice‘. I will not tire or quit ever, if I have guidance. Having autism I usually don’t have the sense to know when I’m not in the ‘in’ crowd or being given dirty looks, so I have no problem with doing what is not popular, as long as I do what is right. If you invest in me, to change a foul system of Jim Crow for autistic and disabled kids, I’ll stand strong. I can forever when I’m standing for what is right.

Thank you for taking the time to read my verbose letter,
Lisa *****
phone number
email

[milivica]

Ok, so that's it (above) that's the best I can do. I'm drained. Hope it hits on enough, hope it wasn't mind bendingly long. At least it fit in one post...quite a feat for me. Printed it's 7 pages long...and that includes the 2 pages from the school's lawyer.

[peglem]

Very nice. Who are you sending it to?

[milivica]

REally, it's ok...I mean I'm sure it could be better, but every time I try to shorten it, it gets longer.

I'm bringing tons of copies to the legal conference I'm going to this friday, that's why I have no names on it but my own. Also, to the ACLU, the U.S. Department of Education, hopefully Martin King III, and the lawyers office that previously turned me down last week - and I'll call the Wisconsin Bar like they told me and see where that leads too.

I'll read this again in a day or two, to hopefully shorten the part with the cops and lengthen the part about what Vince went through. I'm just spent on this. And figure enough was said, to get the point across. I count on folks knowing what to ASK me so I don't have to try and assess and disclose main points, not my forte...only rambling side topics are.

ANYONE feel free to edit my post even better, and I'll use your letter - I done all I can do though. So, glad it's done.

this week I want to get letters from the mother I wrote about who found her daughter bleeding in the isolation room alone, and the mom who is just getting started trying to help her child - though not autistic, young poor and black, a foster child, she can't understand why not having had problems in the past why he now under the 'care' of Adolf is punished in isolation daily...for 'talking too much' she was told by 'Adolf' when I spoke with her. That was the child I saw being dragged Jesus Christ style down the hall, what a nightmare.

[JungleWoman]

Lisa, Im coming into this 64 pages late-- but I cried-- I seriously had no idea the depth of this... HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN??? HOW???

I dont understand! How can someone look at another human and treat them in such a horrible way???

I dont have much to say but if you were right here Id want to hug you and Vince and not let you go for a good while.

[milivica]

So then my post, the long one where I try and summarize it all, it made enough feeling in you, and sense to you, that you think when the agencies who are supposed to protect kids read it, they'll investigate and make them stop. Yes?

[RDeyes]

Mili - Like it. And yes, it is concise, given the volume of info you had to cover.
Please also send one copy to your local representative, and another one to a representative who is on the education committee.

http://www.house.gov/

[milivica]

Really...you like it, it's concise? I felt like I left off soooooooo much. But I just want it to be good enough that I get my points across and someone can then take this case and ask all the stuff I didn't mention. Ya know?

Thank you for the additional place to send this.