my dealings with melatonin and negative side effects

[bigdrig840]

I just wanna start off with Im so grateful for this site, and any answers or suggestions for the problem im having. im so grateful for this site as that in my experience it has been much more helpful than other sites. I think I had another username but forgot the password, and my college email account was closed oh well on to my question.

I recently have been taking melatonin 1-3 mg at night to help me sleep. And for me it created more harm than good. It basically made my mental illness 10 times worse than it should have been. It created in me mood changes, decreased blood flow, fatigue, irritability, vivid dreams, and stagnant breathing. Not to mention the possible hormonal effects that it may have had on me. It did not create any noticeable effects in my thyroid test. But it definitley messed with me hormonally.
Is there anything out there that counterracts the negative effects of melatonin? I mean the most I found was that melatonin decreases the negative effects from inderal. So I figured the reverse would also be true in that inderal could help me. As it also is a drug that helps tremors/anxiety, and people with PTSD. I also have dyspnea due to chest restriction due to scoliosis. :eek: :confused: ;)

[annelb]

How long ago did you stop taking Melatonin? The half life of melatonin is only 30 minutes - that means it only takes 30 minutes for the peak plasma concentration it to decline by half. Have you noticed any improvement since stopping the melatonin? Is it possible something else is going on?
Anne

[bigdrig840]

well i stopped taking it awhile ago, but hormonal effects are longer lasting. and I still have a hard time breathing, specifically breathing in. I feel like I breathe but it never really feels like im breathing correctly. Even after a long jog, I have hard time breathing in. I use albuterol inhaler sometimes due to that, and in college I had bronchitis of some sort for a whole two months. Incidentally right after I smoked pot for the first time. Of course I no longer smoke pot. I couldn't fall asleep at night due to these constant coughs or bronchitis.

And I don't visit an endocrinologist because my general physician think it's an unneccesary procedure. Why do they even have these endocrinologists anyways? maybe I should go to another doctor perhaps. today for the first time in awhile I felt like I actually exercised and blood was flowing up my neck. Yet it's a constant struggle as I feel so weak sometimes. Supposedly I read if you're under 35 you're not even supposed to take melatonin.

As for something else going on I mean I hav had moments of myoclonic jerks at night. And I'm only 22 years old. So I could possibly have Panencephalitis or brain damage, but I wouldn't know because my doctors(my psychiatrist and GP) are both against me having an MRI or catscan. But I haven't asked them about EMG or EEG.

[CanRelate]

I find your post very interesting. I have had insomnia pretty much all my life---early awakenings as well as problems getting to sleep --- although once I am "out" I am pretty much out until my body (not the environment) says so...

I have thought about melatonin; and brought up the subject with my psych MD -- although I have not yet persued it. I am instead working on better "sleep hygiene" -- moving laptop to living room, being more regular about time of getting to bed (whether I want to or not!!), using aromatherapy, etc., etc. I know these things are not a cure-all.....but if they help even a little they are worth doing in my book.

I have had myoclonic jerks in the past (usually big and singular) in the day or as I am drifting to sleep. They seemed to be moreso when on certain psych meds.

I have consistently abnormal EEGs, and throughout my life (at least from age 8...) have had episodes which fit different seizure types. It is less obvious from the outside that these episodes are happening; while I have had a few obvious (to me) ones in the day out in public, many probably come during sleep. We are also beginning to see extreme fatigue as a possible precursor to this activity, so when I have the "non-negotiable nap" feeling, even while in public(!), I am likely getting that as an aura of sorts, and based on how I ALWAYS feel after one of these "naps", I think everyone of them has been followed by seizure activity in my brain. I never had inkling of needing an eeg until around 2001. Done at Indiana University Medical School, and then another one at teaching hospitals connected with Harvard University. It is only looking back thru my life that I realize how long these different things have been going on, and how I just considered it normal for me (and for all I knew for the rest of the world too (WRONG!!)).

Ok, now I am finally getting to my main point:rolleyes: ; My seizure activity and the cognitive issues resulting after are tied to monthly hormone fluctuations. BIG TIME. At the moment I have lost the one week a month when I seemed to be able to "catch-up" some of the issues which have slid between the seizure activity/depression/insomnia. You know like chores, paying bills, social contacts, etc. While we may not find any problem nor solution, we feel it warrants referral to Endocrinologist to do a thorough hormone/chemical workup on the off chance that I can recapture greater functioning over a greater part of every month.

Sounds like at the very least you could benefit from a sleep study and EEG.
Maybe push for the sleep study first as the symptoms you have discussed here seem to be sleep/breathing related.

Are you rural, or near teaching hospitals (in bigger cities or attached to medical schools...)?

Depending on your insurance, you might be able to make appointment without getting a referal from your other docs. Ask your docs specifically WHY they believe these tests are not warranted, and what options they have in mind to help you get better functioning/quality of life. You are not challenging them with these questions as much as you are seeking to become more informed about your care/options/prognosis.

What leads you to saying you might have brain damage?

All the best with this....I absolutely can relate:p !!

Regards,
CanRelate




well i stopped taking it awhile ago, but hormonal effects are longer lasting. and I still have a hard time breathing, specifically breathing in. I feel like I breathe but it never really feels like im breathing correctly. Even after a long jog, I have hard time breathing in. I use albuterol inhaler sometimes due to that, and in college I had bronchitis of some sort for a whole two months. Incidentally right after I smoked pot for the first time. Of course I no longer smoke pot. I couldn't fall asleep at night due to these constant coughs or bronchitis.

And I don't visit an endocrinologist because my general physician think it's an unneccesary procedure. Why do they even have these endocrinologists anyways? maybe I should go to another doctor perhaps. today for the first time in awhile I felt like I actually exercised and blood was flowing up my neck. Yet it's a constant struggle as I feel so weak sometimes. Supposedly I read if you're under 35 you're not even supposed to take melatonin.

As for something else going on I mean I hav had moments of myoclonic jerks at night. And I'm only 22 years old. So I could possibly have Panencephalitis or brain damage, but I wouldn't know because my doctors(my psychiatrist and GP) are both against me having an MRI or catscan. But I haven't asked them about EMG or EEG.

[bigdrig840]

I think I may have spine damage moreover than brain damage, because of the frequency of these myoclonic jerks, and from what I've read on myoclonus, I would think a possibility maybe spinal damage or brain damage. Most often at the beginning of my mental illness I did have moments where I was very tired and fatigued alot, and sometimes suppressing these feelings in some way led me to have these myoclonic jerks and subsequent clickings and poppings in my spine. My ear also pops like I'm changing altitude in a plane or something. This suppression of sleep reminds me of your 'non-negotiable nap feeling.' Which I assume u mean as "if I could find a place to lie down on I'd fall asleep, but I have to keep going", or as was in my case, put on a front of not being tired so I could get stuff done.

I did get a sleep study before, so when dealing with my parents they are more than likely to say no, as I had a hard enough time getting them to do one in the first place. Plus I feel I am a burden for my parents with all the copays for therapist sessions etc. They also have a hard time thinking that my mental illness is just a little more than all mental(which they do have a point in that most illnesses could all be related to the mind in some way.) Or even some symptoms I have due to the stress of depression, they blow off as it's a side effect of your medication blah blah blah. What exactly is an EEG?

[CanRelate]

The "non-negotiable naps" mean just that....I *have* to get to a safe place where I can fall asleep!! I feel (physically....not thinking) that I cannot take another step without falling into a heap on the sidewalk I am SUDDENLY so
fatigued. I do not have the option of pushing through these episodes!

So I find a safe place (hospital lobby (NOT emergency room) was the usual because it was handy when I had these sensations). Usually out for about 45 minutes, awoke with bad taste in my mouth (and sometimes drool <yuck>). I have to assume I showed no signs of jerking/convulsing as someone would have approached me if that were the case as I was in the populated lobby of a hospital. I occasionally get these at home....with pretty much the same details, but I can collapse on my own couch or bed (whichever is closer!!). I am "out" instantaneously.....

Years ago I often had a different version of the above; I would be sharing dinner with lovely friends and we would be laughing and enjoying the meal and each other. I would get the overwhelming feeling that my face was about to land in my plate(!). I would excuse myself, and collapse face down on the couch in the other room. It became a bit of a joke because I would awake (about 45 minutes later...) and my SHOES WOULD BE OFF!! They wouldn't reveal who had done it, and I had no sense that my shoes were being removed or that anyone was in the room.

The sensation comes on fast, and has no relationship (apparently) to how groggy or sleep deprived I feel when I wake up at the start of the day. Also, the nature of the situation I am in when it happens is different than situations which are emotionally draining (like if I were having dinner with my entire FAMILY! <grin>). Believe me, I have been in emotionally draining/negative situations, and have moved thorough days/weeks/months with some level of sleep deprivation.....and these "naps" appear to be outside/beyond the tiredness of either emotional/negative situations or general sleep deprivation.

I have also had the type you mention, and I have had to push thru those as best as I could on days when I just could not put off what was scheduled. Those are VERY hard; but survivable with a cost.....

My diagnosis is Major Depression (Severe, Recurrent). At its worst, I feel as though I am slogging through thick oatmeal while wearing that lead vest they used to use at the dentist when taking xrays. It draped over your shoulders and down the front of your body. Standing up straight was an effort with the vest on........for me, same sensation during severe episode of depression. As well as other physical sensations and problems with concentration, and a host of other things I won't detail here....already too wordy!! Happy to share in another thread it it would help.

The depression preceded any tramatic events in my life pretty much, and so is biological in its origin, as opposed to being provoked by life events. I have had many years of therapy (and VERY GOOD therapy methods in the last 5 years...) and whatever those issues were have been worked on. I only make this distinction because my brain will likely continue (after 20+ years of treatment --therapy and/or meds...)to be *unable* to balance the different necessary chemicals/neurotransmitters without external intervention (Rx, supplements, maybe even light therapy, etc.). I take "med holidays" from time to time, and have so far always had to return to meds. It is what it is....


I am positive, optimistic, and have learned to be gentle with myself in terms of expectations when I truly cannot accomplish at that moment. It is quite a challenge to stretch myself and not cross that ever moving boundary of "pushing self beyond my limits". Nor limit my life by keeping it small and not attempting activities/dreams that are outside my daily routine (comfort zone as some call it). Acceptance is not the same as complacence. I accept my challenges; and then I scheme another way to get what/where I want....and I finally accept that I probably cannot control the timeframe. I am sure others here can identily with this......


EEG is the abbreviation for electro-encephlo-gram.(The dashes are just for clarity....it really is all one word). It is a procedure that measures and records electrical activity in the brain. Abnormalities can often be seen. Whether you knew it or not, you had an abbreviated EEG when you had your sleep study. The electronic leads which they glued to your head were recording brain waves.....essentially to see what level of sleep your brain was at and for how long over the course of the study.

With the usual EEG, you have many more leads than in the sleep study; they also add a few tricks with lights to see the reactions in your brain. And sometimes they request that you come to the procedure sleep deprived, so they can capture some data on how quickly/deeply you brainwaves change during your brief nap.

Sometimes people have an obvious seizure when being tested, yet the EEG fails to record it. SOmetimes this is due to the location of the start/spread/magnitude of the electrical seizure activity...too deep and it won't show. So, EEG is a tool, but is not a definitive rule in/rule out type of thing in many cases. Sometimes, it just provides info for further things to try....

For me, it ended up being validation that my struggles were NOT "all in my head" but are in my brain.

If you don't mind sharing, what were findings from your sleep study? You don't mention it. Are your various docs fully aware of the frequency/extent of your jerks? Do you keep a diary of them, and the conditions surrounding them? (sleep/environment/stressors....)

Also, if I knew what state you were in (if you are even in the USA) I might be able to find resources for you to pursue regarding affordable treatment, etc., etc. If you are in the USA, you could indicate the closest metropolitan area to you...I don't need your actual city to find some resources...

Feel free to PM (private message) that information if you would rather not post it here.

Sorry this was so long... hope it helps clarify...

Regards,
CanRelate

p.s. You mention spinal injury...did you have a motor vehicle or sports or other accident...?

[bigdrig840]

dont worry about being long-winded as I am also, because I pay attention to details(perhaps sometimes to my detriment.) Seems like some of your symptoms resemble narcolepsy, but you and I know both your not that. but jokingly I could say that was u being narcoleptic. I also have that vest sensation to the degree that I find it hard to stand up straight(like im an old man or something-lol) in addition my physical sensations are more like my spine/chest area is frozen, and my head/neck feels disconnected from my body. this feeling is probably what inhibits me from feeling one with the world(as the yogis would say) instead of always thinking about myself, like my my ego is too strong. This also makes my thinking seems like it's through a filter to some degree or there's a missing link in my brain, which is creating broken thoughts in which thoughts dont just flow, or go easily from one thought to another. That can explain why my concentration is really good(almost too good, like overconcentrated)

My findings from the sleep study were relatively normal, even tho I couldnt fall asleep for the longest time, and only slept for around 2 hours. and the sleep study started at quarter to 12 which isnt even my bedtime and the leads kept falling off of me as I sleep on my stomach, so he kept coming in and reapplying them. They insisted that I fell asleep earlier than i did even tho i know i didnt.

I dont mind at all giving you the city I live in, as I know that no one knows my name on this site. So the city is Quincy, MA the closest metropolitan area of course is boston.

I dont have a spinal injury persay, but I do have scoliosis. I also have this weird aura feeling that comes about when I feel insecure or something, and my spine clicks and cracks in response. Its like my anxiety automatically turns into a physical conversion disorder of the spine. Recently tho Ive been using vicks vapor rub on my throat and it helps me breathe better as it has cleared up alot of the phlegm caught in my throat. THanks for all ur help! btw what is an emg? i heard of that when speaking of myoclonus and was wondering.:)

[CanRelate]

HA....I am within 9 miles of Boston...so it will be MUCH easier to give you leads/resources as most will be from my own personal research!!

I will have to investigate EMG. I have seen the abbreviation, but have no personal knowledge/experience at this point. Maybe in the meantime someone else will come along with the full scoop on EMGs.

I'm off to bed (or at least off the computer :rolleyes: ) so I will add more sometime tomorrow.

Regards,
CanRelate

p.s. funny about the narcalepsy comment....(although the ailment is not funny). One doc thought for a minute I was having drop seizures or some such.....she didn't realize I saw/felt the "must lay down" coming...... she breathed a sigh of relief once she got a clearer picture of what I was trying to recount...!

[bigdrig840]

yah my bad. I mean narcolepsy seems funny to a person that has trouble sleeping.

[Mozzz]

Yes, I bought some Melatonin the other day. Took a 2.5mg dose about 4 days ago and no lies I'm still badly fatigued due to it. I took it in the hope to prevent me from waking up at my usual 4am, I have noooo issues falling asleep but always wake up very early two years now must sleeeeeeep, also has made me noticeably irratable....

[bigdrig840]

yah sometimes melatonin with vitamin b6 causes even more problems, vitamin b6 is added to m ake it more absorbable. but that creates vivid nightmares, and possibility irrritability.

but so yes i think that omelatonin can mess with yo u