cannabis withdrawal recovery..need help

[kaylish]

Hiya..Has anyone come off the weed after many years of use and suffered sleep deprivation? I am into my 15th week and it's so frustating. I cannot go back but I'm not really going forward either. I came off sleeping tablets 6 weeks ago (addicted after 6 weeks and only 3 hours sleep a night) and 3 weeks ago I had 5 natural sleeps in a row (totally awesome). However I havent had it again and I still am having more bad sleeps than good. Will going back onto sleep medication (maybe 2-3 nights a week)interfere with the process of getting back to sleeping naturally and can anyone tell me how long it has taken them for sleep to sort itself out through recovery. I do feel as though I can't cope with these continual sleepless nights and might need to go back onto medication for a time.Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[JAVISI]

Kaylish,
My daughter had a drug raid at her house. She had been using weed but her boyfriend was using other things. They got their son taken away from them!:( So she quit completely, I guess wanting her son back is a great motivator. She has been clean for a month:) .

She has not had any complaints in fact she says she feels so much better, better than she has in a long, long time. I am proud of her, she has kept a positive attitude through all of this. :D

Now if I could get her away from her other addiction, her boyfriend! He does love his son, I will give him that but he has never really had a job. Occasionally working for his mom at her Tobbaco Store. His mom has paid for everything for him. He is nspoiled at the age of 29!:eek:

My daughter, has applied for housing, and a lot of jobs, he has applied for none!:mad: .

I hope you get into a good sleep pattern soon!
Best wishes, Javisi;)

[kaylish]

Thanks for your reply Javisi. I guess the difference is in the length of time one has been using cannabis and I have done it for 18 years. I do feel much better within myself despite the sleep problem and this is the only problem I have had to contend with but its hitting me very hard. I can understand your situation with your Daughter. No mother wants to see her daughter in a relationship like that. Your daughter is definitely the motivated one here and one can only hope that one day she will be motivated enough to view this relationship differently.

[houghchrst]

Kaylish hi there and congratulations on getting clean. I smoked pot for about 20 years and for me getting into a good sleep cycle was a real pain. I would sleep good for a few nights then have a few nights where I tossed and turn. Maybe a month of good sleep then a week or two of tossing and turning and quite frankly for me it took a couple years of this. Now don't let that freak you everybody is different I just wanted to let you know that I know what you are going through. I have other things going on now and use a sleep aid which I am real sick of and am considering trying to wean myself off of before school starts up again for my kids. You might want to try creating a bedtime routine so that your body knows that it is time to go to sleep. Do the same thing every night before bed and if you wake up make sure you don't get up and turn on the tv or do anything like that because you will get into a habit and you will start waking about the same time every night. You really do need your sleep so you might want to slowly wean off of the sleep aids. Or if you don't work right now you might want to just quit them and eventually you will be so tired that you will sleep. I know doesn't sound pleasant. Good luck.

[kaylish]

Thankyou so much for your reply. It has really given me some insight as to what I might be in for and yes I was a little freaked out with the amount of time it has taken you to come right. I cant beleive I did this for so long and totally stuffed up my sleep pattern....its a little too late for regrets however...lol. I am going to see my Doctor on Monday to see what he can do for me. I do need a sleep aid for sure.I thought I could do the hard yards but I cant...not without some help..its just too hard!! I have read that smoking depletes the brain of serotonin which plays an important part in sleep and mood. I have developed tinnitus of late and low serotonin levels can contribute to that as well . It is a battle for sure but I am not going to give in to the weed as its a drug free life I want to live. I have been so very lucky in that I havent 'hung out' for it once since I gave up.Did you go onto sleep aids because of giving up the weed?Could I ask what you went onto? After my awful experience with sleeping pills my Doctor gave me phenergan which is quite ineffective and I feel so groggy next day.It will be interesting to see what he says on Monday. Once again thankyou. What I hate the most is that lack of sleep is ageing me faster.....lol.

[houghchrst]

I know exactly what you mean. I absolutely love my sleep and do not do well without it. This may sound kind of nosy but have you been diagnosed with any other mental issues? I ask because a lot of addicts self medicate because of underlying mental issues that usually are undiagnosed. Not everybody but most. You may want to see a psychiatrist about taking something to balance out your serotonin levels until your brain can do it on its own if you have no problems. For something like that you would be better off with a pdoc rather than a regular physician because they are more educated about brain levels and the meds that work. Truthfully I am Bipolar Type 2 which wasn't diagnosed until 2005. Suffer from severe depression mostly but a couple of other things added in there. Anyway, I take Restoril and Ambien CR. The Restoril leaves me feeling a little out of sorts the next day but helps with sleep. I trade off with the Ambien CR. I love the Ambien CR because it does not leave me feeling yucky the next day and the CR works better for me because the regular Ambien would help me fall asleep but only worked for about 4-5 hours. Now you may want to research the Ambien because there can be some really weird side effects like sleep walking. Anyway, stay in touch and let me know how it goes. You should be very proud of yourself, sounds like you are doing a great job.

[kaylish]

Thankyou for your second reply. Its great for me to be intouch with someone who has been through this and I so much thankyou for that. You just dont know how much I appreciate it :)))I am what you call a difficult customer because I am not the norm or so it seems. I have a complicated health disorder which the medical authorities just love and now it seems I am also a very interesting case with the drug and alcohol clinic. My medication and health prevent me from taking certain things.After I received your email I rung the drug and alcohol clinic and told them about you and was told " I have never counselled anyone who has taken 2 years for their sleep to come right " She also told me she would have expected even a slight improvement in my sleep in 4 months. "please keep in touch with us Viv as you are a very interesting case"...yeah right !!! I have infact had no improvement in my sleep in 4 months.It has been soooo hard on me and I have no quality of life anymore.Yet I have stuck it through and god knows how.I have tried many different remedies but to no avail. For the first 6 weeks I was on sleeping pills and had a really bad time. My Doctor then put me onto Amitryptiline with sedative properties and I had an adverse reaction. He then gave me phenergan and that is totally ineffective. So here I am 4 months later and can no longer see the light at the end of the tunnel. My Doctor will not give me anymore sleeping pills and will not give me another tricylic antidepressant with sedative properties. It is humanely impossible to expect anyone to go through these withdrawals without some form of medical help to assist them through the worst of it. My help is now running to an end. I went to the Doctor today and he can offer me one more option...melatonin. Even this is debatable with my health so he needs to consult my hemotologist first to see if it is safe for me to take.If this does not work then I will have no other option but to go back to cannabis and use it for medicinal purposes only ie sleep. A life without sleep is a useless life.There are no mental health issues whatsoever and I have tried 5htp serotonin manager to no avail. Have developed tinniitus in the last few weeks which really doesnt help my situation God help me I need a decent sleep.

[Laura]

Has anybody suggested desyrel (trazadone)? It is an older antidepressant but not a tricyclic, or even related to the one you took before. It is commonly used as a sleep aid for drug addicts and alcoholics in recovery because it is not addictive. It is rarely used as an antidepressant anymore because it is not very effective for that. It doesn't work for everyone, but for those it does (about half), it works really, really well and no tolerance ever develops. It will work for years if necessary. My two sisters have been using it for about 13 and 20 years. Within 45 minutes or less of taking it, they HAVE to be in bed.

[houghchrst]

Laura is right, I have used the Desyrel and Seroquel (not so much maybe for you) both. They will help you sleep. Quite a few people use them and like them. I didn't mention them because for me they are very strong and I didn't like the next day grogginess and grumpiness so I chose to stop taking them. They may work for you perfectly. Just remember that whatever you take you will feel out of sorts if you do not get the full amount of sleep. They say at least 7 but for me it was more like at least eight. One of the main reasons that I have trouble sleeping now is because I suffer from chronic pain, that wakes me often, and depression and anxiety, as I said I am BiPolar II so that and the meds I am taking contributes to my inability to sleep without the sleep aid. I was told during outpatient rehab that everybody is different and will get their own sleep cycles back in their own time. Everybody is different and as I said before a lot of addicts have underlying mental health issues that are undiagnosed so for them sleep may always be a problem.

I sympathize with you. I hate not being able to sleep. At times it seems that that is all you can focus on all day, like an obsession, will I be able to sleep tonight. Have you been to a sleep study yet? You may want to have your doc recommend one. There are also a lot of little tricks you can learn to help you get prepared for bed, routines you can do every night before bed so that you can get your mind and body prepared. Good luck.

Another thing I wanted to ask is do you take naps?

[kaylish]

Hey thanks people for your ongoing support. I have discussed the Trazadone meds with my Doctor after researching it a while ago but it is unavailable in New Zealand.Over a 16 week period I have tried everything as you can imagine from relaxation to affirmation to meditation, many natural remedies, baths with epsom salts, unwinding two hours before bed, regular exercise during the day, cutting out caffeine and on it goes. I have searched the internet so much I know it like the back of my hand...lol and no I dont nap during the day. I am still waiting to hear from my Doctor on the melatonin.I have vasculitis which was diagnosed almost 3 years ago. This disorder in itself can cause sleep disturbance and I was told I have probably had it for much longer than I think. It is possible that by smoking the weed I have masqued the problem and that my sleep problem is not soley connected to withdrawal...if that makes any sense.I dont know about the sleep clinic as my Doctor has never mentioned it. I think if it were a viable option knowing my cicumstances he would have but I will ask him. I do know there is a private sleep clinic 3 hours from where I live but it is expensive and to add you have the cost of getting there. Unfortunately I live on a very low income as I am unable to work.Not all is lost yet but I have to do something soon because with my existing health condition it is taking a heavy toll after 16 weeks. Just great to have your continuing feedback and I so much appreciate all your help.

[houghchrst]

I know what you mean about the drugs masking other problems. I didn't have problems sleeping until I got off the drugs and then I didn't find out about my mental issues until I had been clean for about five years. Oddly enough even though I had trouble sleeping through the night when I did sleep I would sleep as though seriously drugged, for like 12 hours at a time. My doc said it was my brain trying to recover from everything I had done to it. Yeah well I feel as though my brain is still trying to recover LOL. Well I hope you find something that works for you soon. Keep up the fight :D.

[kaylish]

Hiya. The plot thickens and it seems the Medics are really questioning my sleep problem now.The melatonin has been approved by my Hemotologist which is great but he wants to check me out for Lupus. Its a possibility as I have discord lupus on my skin and the butterfly rash on my cheeks. I have also very recently developed joint problems. I was checked for it a couple of years back but it was negative and I understand it can take a couple of years to kick in properly. I will spend the next two days at the Hospital having intravenous antibodies for an exisiting health problem and my Doctor today gave me 7 sleeping tablets so I can be rested and ready for my treatment...bless him. I will start the melatonin at the weekend and hope for the best.Last night I had a good sleep.... the first in 10 days but I felt very fatigued to day despite it. I am going to drop a pill tonight so I know I will sleep ok tonight as well. Will keep you informed of my progress and meantime I battle on doing everything in my power to stay off the weed.

[houghchrst]

Wow, I hope everything is okay. Keep us posted. I will keep you in my thoughts.

[zoso a.k.a Neil]

>>>>>>Greetings<<<<<<
Try a natural med called 5htp.It helps with serotonin levels and should help you sleep. Try and Google it .
And i should add i think it far worse to go back on sleeping tablets than too have a joint of a pipe before bedtime.
I wish you luck and good health in abundant measure.
P.S i you don't already meditate get a book and start meditating to go to sleep.
It has worked for me for twenty years.
Farewell and remember to always be good to yourself at least once a day.:)
)))))))))Be seeing you(((((((((
)))))Zoso(((((

[kaylish]

Hiya. I just wanted to touch base as its been a few weeks since I posted my question.I have had my blood test done but waiting for my Hemotologist to interpret the results.The result I was told was way out of kilter and my Doctor doesnt know how to read it properly. I went off the melatonin as I didnt think it was very helpful not to mention quite expensive however I have gone back onto it to give it a second chance.Last week in desperation I tried some cannabis.Its the first smoke I have had for 4 months and I am sure my poor nervous system didnt know what the hell was happening.My heart raced and my tinnitus was much worse.To add the cannabis did not put me to sleep infact it had the opposite effect. So after 18 years of smoking it and 4 months without, something has changed within.I felt as though I was truly letting myself down but felt if it would be this that would help me sleep then so be it.My salvation became my damnation..lol.I have tried the 5htp...great at reducing any anxiety but didnt put me to sleep. Meditation is something I have been wanting to learn so that is the next step.Thanks for the advice Neil. I do agree with you about the cannabis versus sleeping pills.There is nothing worse than a chemically controlled sleep. ******

[houghchrst]

When I was doing outpatient rehab there was a therapist there that made a couple of meditation tapes for me. I used them regularly. It has been a long time but I still have them. Maybe I should get them out for other problems I am having. Don't beat yourself up about the slip. It happens. And desperation for a good nights sleep can be overwhelming. I know. I am sick of taking sleeping meds and anti anxiety meds and pain meds and have considered the pros and cons of going back to smoking pot in comparison to what all the other meds do to my body. I know better. Yes after four months your body has started to clean itself up but it can take up to two years for your body to completely get back to it's prepot self. Thanks for keeping us updated and continue to do so. Good luck with the test results.

[kaylish]

Yes well you do have to hang a question mark over the pharmaceutical drugs sometimes. They are chemicals and are designed to treat the symptoms . I have had two adverse reactions to drugs but no adverse reaction to cannabis. People have died from adverse reactions to drugs yet I dont know anyone that has died from cannabis smoking..unless of course they were unfortunate enough to get lung cancer. In the wee small hours, I did a lot of researching insomnia on the internet. Cannabis is renowned for insomnia.Its the very thing I was trying to move away from yet is beneficial for the very problem I have. I am going to try the melatonin for a little longer (3mg) and without the help of cannabis. My weeks supply is just about over and I dont want to get anymore. It has been a good combination and I have had good sleeps for the last 5 days. I dont even remember falling alseep but it has happened relatively quickly. Usually I am up again an hour after going to bed with the 'cant sleep syndrome'. Maybe taking the weed for a week has broken the cycle of how my nights have been or maybe I am kidding myself...lol lol.

[houghchrst]

One adverse reaction is enough to make someone want to quit with the meds. I have had twelve to fifteen. I am BIPolar type II, supposedly, and I have had an adverse reaction to every mood stabilizer they tried. I finally got fed up and told her to stop, I need a break to recover. This was back to back to back these meds. Now I just take an anti depressant and I have anxiety meds and sleep meds and pain meds, I feel like a frickin pharmacy but I try to take them sparingly. Except anti depressant, that is regular. I asked the Psych doc if there was a chance that taking the mood stabilizers one after another would mess up my brain chemistry and she kind of smiled and wouldn't look at me and said it has never been documented. For all I know my brain could be permanently altered even worse from that. Now pot never would have done that. I may have been dumb as a stump most of the time but it only alters my brain in one way while I know that each med had a slightly different way of working. So yes it is something to consider and I am all for the legalization of Marijuana but not for me. Pot wasn't my drug of choice. It just started that way. I am glad that you are getting some sleep. I am sorry I kind of turned this into a post about me.

As for insomnia I never really had any trouble sleeping when I smoked but I imagine that the type of sleep you get is different than the type you get if you don't smoke. Just like drinking, if you get drunk and go to sleep most of the sleep you get is your body trying to recover from what you just did to it so it is not a natural sleep.

What other kinds of things have you tried for sleep?

[kaylish]

I have tried many things to help with the sleep and have had the odd natural sleep which was wonderful..just not enough of it and never consistent. I would have 24 good sleeps out of 63......the rest were medicated in some way or just hellish nights where I wouldnt sleep until 4-5 am.Sometimes the med worked and sometimes it didnt.My body tolerated them very quickly so the effect I would get at the beginning didnt last...Sleeping pills, anti depressant with a sedative effect ( had an adverse reaction)5htp,a homeopathic remedy, valerian,acupuncture,a little cognitive behavioural therapy,phenergan (ineffective),relaxation exercises, melatonin and cannabis.I have stuffed so many sleep aids into my body in 4 months it doesnt know whats what anymore...lol. I have also tried to do the hard yards and take nothing...certainly not beneficial and not something I would recommend...lol .Alcohol does a good job at putting you to sleep but I am awake again 3-4 hours later.The battle becomes extremely tiring and after 4 months of it you just want to take something and sleep.The cannabis is now gone.Last night after several good nights it was like my body said to me 'hang on a minute you have got a sleep problem " and it took me ages to go to sleep despite the cannabis and melatonin. So tonight I am just on the melatonin and it will be interesting to see what happens