How much gluten = GF?

[annelb]

Does Spain use Codex guidelines? This abstract seems to recommend lowering the standard of GF from 200 to 100 for products rendered GF and 20ppm for products that are naturally GF.

What I have not seen addressed is how much of something that contains 200ppm is safe to eat. What happens if you eat 3-5 servings of this sort of product? Do people on a GF diet need to keep a running total of the amount of possible gluten exposure?

I know on the old forum we had someone post the conversion of ppm to grams of gluten - at least I think that was the conversion. I need to try to find that again.
Anne

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17033440&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Eur J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2006 Nov;18(11):1187-95.
Consumption of gluten-free products: should the threshold value for trace amounts of gluten be at 20, 100 or 200 p.p.m.?

* Gibert A,
* Espadaler M,
* Angel Canela M,
* Sanchez A,
* Vaque C,
* Rafecas M.

aSMAP Celiacs de Catalunya, Coeliac Society Departments of bApplied Mathematics and Analysis cNutrition and Food Science-CeRTA, University of Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain.

OBJECTIVE: The threshold of gluten contamination in gluten-free products of both dietary and normal consumption is under debate. The objective of this study was to gather information on consumption of gluten-free products intended for dietary use of people under a gluten-free diet. This information is essential to ascertain the exposure of coeliac patients to gluten through their diet and deduce the maximum gluten content that these products should contain to guarantee a safe diet. METHODS: A diet diary of consumption of gluten-free products intended for dietary use was distributed to the coeliac societies of two typical Mediterranean countries (Italy and Spain) and two Northern countries (Norway and Germany). The diet diary included a self-weigh table of the selected food items and a 10-day consumption table. Results were reported in percentiles as distributions were clearly right skewed. RESULTS: The respondents included in the study accounted for 1359 in Italy, 273 in Spain, 226 in Norway and 56 in Germany. Gluten-free products intended for dietary use contributed significantly to the diet of coeliac patients in Italy, Germany and Norway and to a lesser degree in Spain. The most consumed gluten-free product in all countries was bread, and it was double consumed in the Northern countries (P<0.001). Mediterranean countries showed consumption of a wider variety of gluten-free foods and pasta was eaten to a large degree in Italy. CONCLUSIONS: The differences between Northern and Mediterranean countries were not in the total amount of gluten-free products but in the type of products consumed. The observed daily consumption of gluten-free products results in the exposure to rather large amounts of gluten, thus the limit of 200 p.p.m. should be revised. A limit of 20 p.p.m. for products naturally gluten-free and of 100 p.p.m. for products rendered gluten-free is proposed to guarantee a safe diet and to enable coeliac patients to make an informed choice. These limits should be revised as new data become available.

PMID: 17033440 [PubMed - in process]

[aklap]

Hi,

Make sure you go to Dr. Fasano's presentation on "How much gluten is safe" at the conference, I susupect much will be covered there. I suspect the Codex will be dropping the level from 200ppm as well.

[annelb]

:mad: Dr. Fasano is speaking at the doctor's meeting. I am scheduled for the other meeting. Maybe I can sneak in :rolleyes:
Anne

[aklap]

Yup - just wear your work outfit...you'll fit right in!!!

[halsgluten]

This article discusses how 1mg/day in the communion wafer prevented healing in this case:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3624/is_200409/ai_n9411757

I thought I had another link about the 1mg/day limit but have misplaced it.

Hal

[annelb]

Good article - don't think I have come across that before.

Too bad that the woman who was taking communion every day would not give up her low gluten host to see that made a difference. It is so easy to get hidden gluten from non-obvious sources. Interesting though is that her antibodies remained low.

Is it possible that even after 18mos complete healing had not taken place. Here is a recent article that says if a person is over 30 when diagnosed with CD damage histological damage can persist as long as 2 years. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16810593&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum

Anne

[diamondheart]

My husband was trying brands of rice milk, and we agreed that the Rice Dream rice milk was less sweet and tasted better than the Lundenberg's. But when I went to purchase it, I noticed that the label said it had equal to 0.002% of gluten from barley enzyme. What am I supposed to think of that :confused: ? I decided not to buy it, but I'm confused and bummed.

Claire

[annelb]

Rice Dream says that the amount of gluten is less than 20ppm. That would make it GF in Canada and Europe. Is Rice Dream Gluten Free?

All the ingredients in Rice Dream are gluten free. It is possible, however, that the finished product may contain minute residual traces of gluten from an enzyme used during processing. The enzyme derived from barley protein, and although the amount involved is very small -- less than 20 parts per million -- those with an extreme gluten sensitivity are advised to consult their health care practitioner about the suitability of Rice Dream for them

http://www.imaginefoods.com/europe/products/index.php

There is no test for 0ppm of gluten. The Gluten Free Certification Organization guarentees the products tested are less than 10ppm. Rice Dream would not pass their test. http://www.gfco.org/

Tough decisions when eating grains. Do you eat stuff made on shared lines? When a product is marked GF in the US do you ever call to find out the company definition of GF? Currently,there is no standard definition of GF in the US.

I would find it difficult to buy something that says "may contain gluten". I even stay away from many products that say "produces in a facility with wheat". That may be too cautious. When we get a definition of GF, all these products may get the GF stamp of approval. I guess that is why I don't eat much processed food.

Have you tried Pacific Rice drink? It is marked GF. http://www.pacificfoods.com/products-nut-grain.php
Anne

[halsgluten]

What am I supposed to think of that?
Claire

In Kansas, we use Naturally Preferred rice milk.

Shoot, in old BT, y'all had your pictures up.

Hal

[annelb]

Shoot, in old BT, y'all had your pictures up.

Hal
I will get a picture up as soon as I reread how to make an avatar out of a picture. I have been lazy.
Anne

[diamondheart]

Shoot, in old BT, y'all had your pictures up.

Hal

Ok, I put my picture up. I really like my green hair. Instead of a green thumb, I have green hair! It fits with my job cuz I plant stuff. It's not easy being green :D

Claire

[jcc]

I like the green hair, Claire...it's really you...lol :D ! It actually looks very nice with this blue background :).

I've been slow on getting my avatar back up, too, but I'll get on it one of these days!

Cara

[aklap]

Consumption of gluten-free products: should the threshold value for trace amounts of gluten be at 20, 100 or 200 p.p.m.? (Nov 2006)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17033440&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

1: Eur J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2006 Nov;18(11):1187-95. Links

Gibert A,
Espadaler M,
Angel Canela M,
Sanchez A,
Vaque C,
Rafecas M.
aSMAP Celiacs de Catalunya, Coeliac Society Departments of bApplied Mathematics and Analysis cNutrition and Food Science-CeRTA, University of Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain.

OBJECTIVE: The threshold of gluten contamination in gluten-free products of both dietary and normal consumption is under debate. The objective of this study was to gather information on consumption of gluten-free products intended for dietary use of people under a gluten-free diet. This information is essential to ascertain the exposure of coeliac patients to gluten through their diet and deduce the maximum gluten content that these products should contain to guarantee a safe diet.

METHODS: A diet diary of consumption of gluten-free products intended for dietary use was distributed to the coeliac societies of two typical Mediterranean countries (Italy and Spain) and two Northern countries (Norway and Germany). The diet diary included a self-weigh table of the selected food items and a 10-day consumption table. Results were reported in percentiles as distributions were clearly right skewed.

RESULTS: The respondents included in the study accounted for 1359 in Italy, 273 in Spain, 226 in Norway and 56 in Germany. Gluten-free products intended for dietary use contributed significantly to the diet of coeliac patients in Italy, Germany and Norway and to a lesser degree in Spain. The most consumed gluten-free product in all countries was bread, and it was double consumed in the Northern countries (P<0.001). Mediterranean countries showed consumption of a wider variety of gluten-free foods and pasta was eaten to a large degree in Italy.

CONCLUSIONS: The differences between Northern and Mediterranean countries were not in the total amount of gluten-free products but in the type of products consumed. The observed daily consumption of gluten-free products results in the exposure to rather large amounts of gluten, thus the limit of 200 p.p.m. should be revised. A limit of 20 p.p.m. for products naturally gluten-free and of 100 p.p.m. for products rendered gluten-free is proposed to guarantee a safe diet and to enable coeliac patients to make an informed choice. These limits should be revised as new data become available.

PMID: 17033440 [PubMed - in process]


I would venture to guess we'll be seeing something similar when it comes time for GF labeling in 2008.

[annelb]

But how much can one eat? How many servings of 20ppm or 200ppm is too much.

I see this as the same sort of question for trans fat. If the "safe" limit of transfat is 2mg (actually there is NO safe amount). and you eat 6 servings of items marked 0 trans fat, have you exceded the safe limit? The items marked 0 can have up to .5gm of trans fat and still be labeled "0". Then 8 servings of this "0" product might actually give you 2.4 gms of trans fat. Now you are over the limit of "safe" trans fat.

Am I making any sense :confused: I cannot imagine that one could eat a large amount of a product with 20ppm and not have a problem.
Anne

[aklap]

You are making sense..."How many servings of 20 ppms can you eat before it catches up to you".

Since everyone reacts differently, I'm guessing it'd be pretty hard to nail down a hard & fast number.

[NancyM]

And what does react mean? React with an autoimmune response we can't see or feel? Or react with violent explosive diarrhea. :p There's just so little known about this disease.

[aklap]

This might be the answer you are looking for.

http://www.benedictinesisters.org/english/site.php?use=low_gluten

The Celiac community’s response to us... Since we began selling these breads we have served over 2000 celiac sufferers. We have had only positive feedback from those who have tried them. Our low gluten altar breads were featured in an article in the magazine Gluten-Free Living. The editorial and accompanying write-up cited data from the Center for Celiac Research that showed that the 0.01% gluten content of our breads would be perfectly safe for most celiacs. The article states:

The measurement cited here, 0.01%, represents 10 PPMs (parts per million). But the more important number is 37 micrograms, because it is daily exposure to gluten that counts. The best current information shows that 10 milligrams a day should be safe.
Ten milligrams is the same as 10,000 micrograms. If you divide 37 micrograms into 10,000 micrograms, you will find that you would have to eat 270 wafers every day to reach the danger point. At most, celiacs would consume one wafer per day or about 0.04% (four tenths of one percent) of the amount considered dangerous.

[annelb]

The best current information shows that 10 milligrams a day should be safe.

In other words - nobody really knows. If they are looking for blood test to become positive or biopsies to show flattening, then, IMHO, the true "safe" amount limit is way below what can do that.

I recentlly had an Enterolab test that showed rising antibody levels after being on a GF diet for over 2 years. My blood tests were negative. I was having frequent symptoms of contamination. I think the source of my gluten was wild bird seed. I won't know until my yearly Enterolab test next spring. I wonder how many mg's of gluten I was getting from the bird seed dust once a week? Of course maybe there was something more than bird seed :confused:
Anne

[halsgluten]

bird seed dust once a week?
Anne

Inhalation?

About the rising st**l antibody levels after being on a GF diet for over 2 years.

Anti-gliadin antibodies, I presume. Something I've been thinking about.

In one theory, Anti-gliadin antibodies should fall off after removal of gliadin from the diet. OK, if you have depressed levels of IgG and IgG, then they may come up a bit after starting the diet as your immune system recovers but before all the gliadin amyloid is cleared out.

Ask Dr. Fine about it, I think he likes to chat a little.

But I wonder about the cerebral cross-reactivity to anti-gliadin antibodies, why wouldn't that perpetuate the anti-gliadin antibodies? But how could that affect st**l levels?

Dangerous wondering?

Hal

"LeFou, I'm afraid I've been thinking." "A dangerous pastime!" "I know."

[annelb]

Inhalation?



I could taste the birdseed from the dust cloud so I am sure that some dust was swallowed. My mouth must have been open.

As far as antibodies, I had a bunch of antibody tests run years ago when they were checking out my peripheral neuropathy and they were all "normal". I will have to dig then out to see exactly what was run.
Anne

[halsgluten]

I could taste the birdseed from the dust cloud so I am sure that some dust was swallowed.
Anne

s'ah! :rolleyes: I forgot that almost all of the dust we breath, we end up swallowing, after a while, we hope.

Still, B.R.O.W. in bird seed?

Hal

[annelb]

s'ah! :rolleyes: I forgot that almost all of the dust we breath, we end up swallowing, after a while, we hope.

Still, B.R.O.W. in bird seed?

Hal

I contacted the company, Morning Song, and yes there is wheat in the mix I was using.
Anne

[halsgluten]

yes there is wheat in the mix I was using.
Anne

:eek: Wow, still that would be a fraction of a smidgeon in a dusting. How many mg is that?

That reminds me, another research quest. I know wheat will flat out kill a steer if you feed it a lot of wheat the way you would corn or milo (sorghum), but you can get away with adding *some* wheat to cattle feed (wheat is much cheaper than corn or milo).

I wonder if it is much more likely that pigs, chickens, catfish, salmon, tilapia, etc. are fed wheat. I’m sure Tyson would flat out refuse the question. Any help would be appreciated.

There could also be mold in the bird seed dust.

Hal

[annelb]

:eek: Wow, still that would be a fraction of a smidgeon in a dusting. How many mg is that?

That reminds me, another research quest. I know wheat will flat out kill a steer if you feed it a lot of wheat the way you would corn or milo (sorghum), but you can get away with adding *some* wheat to cattle feed (wheat is much cheaper than corn or milo).

I wonder if it is much more likely that pigs, chickens, catfish, salmon, tilapia, etc. are fed wheat. I’m sure Tyson would flat out refuse the question. Any help would be appreciated.

There could also be mold in the bird seed dust.

Hal

My enterolab tests were worse than they were 3 years before. I am hoping the birdseed was my only source of contamination. Will find out this spring.

I think most animal feeds include wheat. On the old forum there was a thread about wheat in fish food. I could not find it with a google search. :(
Anne

[NancyM]

I remember reading an experiment they conducted on cattle. They fed them either an all wheat or an all corn diet. The wheat fed ones got REALLY sick. I think I read that on wikipedia.