<edited title>

[Isabelle]

I am reading the court proceedings of US vs Cedillos in reference of how measles vaccine or MMR vaccine affected the children and you can read the game those professionals are playing skirting the main issue as best as they can. I just can't believe it that parents of autistics children in the US are not "raising up in arms" (speaking in protest) <Editted> At all events if you care to hear or read the acrobatics dances that these doctors do or play hear/read them in action. It's outrageous!

At all events is highly educative.

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/OSM/OSMAutism.htm

Thanks Mrs. Jerome!

[mc4_a]

Care to supply examples?

[LIZARD]

Frankly, I find it at least as much of an outrage that so many kids have been found to have Chiari and other brain structure abnormailities in addition to autism, but few members of the medical community have paid it any attention at all and in fact believe it has nothing to do with the autism. Who the H3LL do they think they're kidding?!! :mad: It also begs mentioning that when you ask most parents who are convinced that vaccines are to blame if they have ever had MRIs done on the kids, the retort is always, "WHY??" Unless medical tests conclude that a child has high levels of metals in his body, there is no way to prove that vacs are the cause for all of our kids, or even most. Not to mention: Thimerasol was removed from vacs years ago, yet the rate of autism dx has skyrocketed. This mentality has resulted in an anti-vaccine school of thought that has become hysteria.

I personally feel for the Cedillos and think they have a fairly compelling argument, as may some others, but we are doing ourselves and especially our kids a severe disservice if we take our eyes off the ball (looking high and low for causes, prevention, and better, more effective treatment) and insist on obsessing over a possible cause for a mere handful of the kids.


LIZARD, leaving soapbox (for the moment :rolleyes: )

[mrsjerome]

Thimerasal has not been removed from all vaccines. It is still made in the flu vaccines. Although the manufacture was discontinued doesn’t mean it is still not in the other vaccines. It was not out-lawed for there are still vials in use to this day. That is why one should look at the vaccine insert to check the ingredients. Thimerasal being a preservative has a long long shelf life. There are supplies of it that are still being used Because there is no law banning the use or distribution of the left over supplies containing this preservative. Some of these vaccines are shipped to 3rd world countries as well. Clearly from what some of the people on this forum say there can be other causes of autism that should be addressed. All of us have different situations and different ideas. The vaccine trial that just concluded is just a test trial to allow parents to access the fund set up for people harmed by vaccines. It will be a while before we know what the results will be in this regard. To get a clearer picture one just has to read some of the testimony and draw their own conclusions. Is there a correlation, only time will tell. Right now you take care of your children the best you can with what treatment you know. My son was diagnosed with autism over 40 years ago. Times and views have changed a lot during those years. In those days there were not very many children like my son. Today it is much more common. In another 40 years (I won’t be around) views might be a lot different than they are today . They may think they really thought that back then.

[MomOTwins]

If you want a perspective on this whole case, take a look at Autism Diva's blog (www.autismdiva.blogspot.com). She mentioned testimony the other day by a gastroenterologist who I know personally and would trust wholeheartedly with my familys' guts - Dr. Stephen Hanauer.

He is a sensible, trustworthy, intelligent, well-respected individual who understands the basic and complicated science of the gut (including the upper intestine, lower intestine, etc.). This guy is smart as can be and will not sell his reputation to make BIG PHARMA sigh with relief.

C'mon folks, PLEASE try to understand that some physicians and scientists have ethics and morals and will NOT say anything that someone else wants them to say just to make a big buck! Yes, this goes for people in ALL industries, not just medicine, so I'm not showing favoritism to my former industry, but I AM showing favoritism to people that I KNOW do good science and are reputable and trustworthy human beings.

I realize that I'm doing a lot of shouting here, but despite the fact that I refuse to get into the vaccine debate on this site, I do feel strongly about the issue and have been following the discussion. As a scientist, I research the data and develop my own opinions. As a mother, I do EXACTLY the same thing. My children were NOT affected by vaccines. The spectrum disorder that appears in my family was NOT due to vaccination. Please respect my opinion and that of other parents/caregivers who post on this board with the same opinions. We do not try to talk you out of your beliefs, so please grant us the same courtesy.

Kim

[LIZARD]

Please respect my opinion and that of other parents/caregivers who post on this board with the same opinions. We do not try to talk you out of your beliefs, so please grant us the same courtesy.

Kim

Agreed. That's all we want, too (parents of kids who have brain structure issues and autism), to be heard and taken seriously about our concerns. Let's face it; the whole vaccine issue has overshadowed every other possible cause. We who have kids with dual dxs can't even be heard by our doctors!! How sad is that?? What if the surgery cold mean the difference between my son being independent some day (even if it's at 30) and my having to worry every day that my own condition may render me unable to look after him in 10...5...even 1 years?? Even if I weren't up against such an uncertain health future, it would be terrifying, especially since something can be done to lessen the effects, and it's not because "he doesn't need it" and "one has nothing to do with the other." SAYS WHO?!! :mad:


LIZARD :(

[Isabelle]

that's my intention. there are tests to see how are you or your children are going to react to vaccines. doctors have to be careful who they vaccinate, because is not only the possibility of developing autism there is the chance of severe allergies, asthma and many, many "horrific" (doctor Ward word) immune disorders down the road. It might take two or three generations to see the genetic changes brought by over hundred years of vaccinations.
some people has strong immune system or their families haven't been vaccinate long enough, some others like myself have already a delicate, susceptible to overreact, immune system and from there to genetic disorders is a very short step.
If doctors knows so much about the measles wild or in vaccine I am for tests and more tests, all the tests, to be used, to use all the science resources can provide, immune system tests, metabolic tests,mytochondria tests, genetic tests, MRI, endoscopies tests, so many children autistic suffer from gastrointestinal disorders and the measles presence is found.
Since when a harmless childhood disease like measles has become the most devastating immune suppressing disease???? now second to HIV?
I would rather see money used in tests, not "wasted", to prevent "wasting" taxpayers dollars in bad education and on institutional care with expensive psychiatric care that make the autistic crazy violent or force them to sleep 20 hours. And on lawyers to defend themselves.
A Neurologist Dr. Witnizer "recruited" autistic children for "pharmacokinetics" to use Risperdal on them to see how the body handles and metabolizes a drug, how it absorbs, how it runs through the bloodstream, how is eliminated.....Outrageous!
Just read and educated yourselves. WE don't need to fight among ourselves if your child was vaccine damaged or thimerosal damaged or made crazy with psychiatric drugs or if has a genetic disorder or chiari malformation. Just read and see what interests/agendas are at game.
EDUCATION.

[Jamies Mommy]

Besides the Vaccines Thimersol is in many other medicines our children are given. Eye drops, ear drops, Demerol, Saline Solution to name a few.

I believe that the amount of Mercury in the vaccines contributed to Jamies Autism however just prior to him regressing he was on an ear drop containing thimersol for 8 weeks, and an antibiodic which inhibited Mercury from being excreted from his body. He was also on a Saline IV drip 6 times during that time and given a Demerol Cocktail 8 times.

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

I don't know what the answer is here...obviously is a very debatable issue.

But what I do know, is that there are a a lot of other things in those vaccinations besides mercury...

Now, like many of you, I saw first hand how things changed or spiraled after a vaccination...it'd have been hard to convince me that there wasn't a link.

But what I know now is that it was a 'harmless' ingredient that compromised my son's thought process, led to his seizures, and contributed greatly to his depression and delays....

sucrose.


I strongly believe that it is a similar case for others...but likely that there are different ingredients that trigger it for different individuals. In my son's case (and for others with metabolic issues) it's all about compounding. It may be enough with the first vaccination, maybe the second, toss in a few rounds of OTC meds, maybe an expanded diet or some other expose, then blam it's the 'N-th vaccination that does it.

Coincidently the chicken-pox/MMR combo was my son's worst reaction...coincidently they have mercury, but they also contain the largest amounts of sucrose. By then 15 months...he was well into solids...fruits and veggies, yogurt, etc...it was all too much for him and his system couldn't metabolize it.

I find myself screaming at the TV on this issue all the time...

So what, maybe it's not mercury, here are 2 indesputable facts:

1. Vaccines have hurt some kids...
2. Mercury isn't a good thing for the body

Uhmmm, what's the problem????

In my mind, unless you are immune deficient, you should need to have these things forced on your kid! For the generally healthy child, in my opinion, the risk does NOT outweigh the benefit! There are just too many unknowns with all the crap in those things...I don't think we ought to be conducting clinically trials and labeling them a health initiative!

Ok, jumping off the soap box now...

[gynwhyver]

Kristen:

How did you find out about the sucrose? Was it through genetic testing?

My dd had her first seizure shortly after the MMR. She had a very low grade fever coupled with an ear infection, which led to a 20 minute seizure. It took years to get her seizures under some semblence of control. We've had PET scans done that showed metabolic slowing in the right hemisphere of her brain, and some genetic testing, (ruled out brain surgery as well), but still no definitive answers.

Thanks in advance!

Gwyn

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

A very smart metabolic Dr FINALLY figured out why Coley was having such a problem eating. At that point he was already being treated for seizures and had been dxd w/ PDD just a few months earlier.

The combination was enough for her to speculate on Fructose Intolerance. To confirm it requires a liver biopsy...not something any Dr would recommend for diagnostic purposes never mind for a 2.5 yo.

We were told to restrict his diet, not easy...basically if it grows from the ground, he can't have it...to 'confirm'

within 3 days Coley was alert, social, interacting, imagiative, creative, out-going, happy and sleeping through the night....

and we began weaning off the anti-convulsants

I still find it ironic that the GFCF, the SCD, the ketogenic, and the fructose-free (or low fructose) diets are all so similar and have produced HUGE results for some. Things that make make you go hmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!

I suggested it before, and I will again: 3 days - that's it! It's the same for others I've met with similar Dxs...painful, yes....but not if you see the results we did...and even better - Coley doesn't want all those things back either...at first he did, he went through MAJOR withdrawal...once he was 'clean' - not a care in the world!!!


ok...done preaching....

[gynwhyver]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. My daughter has always been a "picky" eater. She prefers steak over anything, and eats tons of meat. She doesn't eat many fruits or vegetables, doesn't really like pasta, and goes through long periods when she won't eat bread of any type. Occasionally, she'll eat bread with butter or sometimes just mustard. She loves yogurt and goes through spurts where it's practically all she'll eat. A few weeks ago, she was on an oatmeal kick, now it's eggs. It's like her body craves certain foods to satisfy some sort of deficiency, so she eats tons of it (especially proteins). She also doen't like cakes or eat alot of sweets. Very interesting.

With three other little girls in the house (two of whom LOVE fruit), I'm not sure I'll be able to restrict her, which is why the keto diet or GFCF isn't recommended for us. But we explored those options. I'll have to talk to her neuro about this again though, now that the kids are a little older (youngest is 6 now, oldest is 12), and see what she thinks.

Again, thanks for the info.

Take care,

Gwyn

[LIZARD]

I still find it ironic that the GFCF, the SCD, the ketogenic, and the fructose-free (or low fructose) diets are all so similar and have produced HUGE results for some. Things that make make you go hmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!

This says to me that not all autism is "created equal." I have believed for years that there are several different types--not just degrees--of autism, each with its own cause(s), which is why our kids' behaviors, their degree of severity, and how well they respond to various interventions will vary greatly. There is no one--or even combo--that will work well for all kids. We need to keep that in mind. Drew has shown amazing improvement with home-based behavioral therapy, and I know he'd starve if I tried to put him on any of the diets. I suspect his improvement would be negligible, too, as the kids who respond well to them seem to have certain behavioral and physical issues (that he doesn't). (This is illustrated very eloquently in George and Sam, by Charlotte Moore: http://tinyurl.com/3y59xo)


LIZARD :)

[Kristen (ColeysMom)]

Oh I agree completey Lizard!!!!

But I do think that the effects of a metabolic condition on his mind is what caused the 'autistic behaviors.' And from what I've learned, it basically amounted to junk clogging up the engine - so to speak. He simply was unable to make connections and maintain them.

Course I'm no neuro or even close - but I would suspect that this same type of issue would reflect differently in every individual. Although, it's really interesting that there are similar type behaviors in the ASD 'spectrum' (I think you are right about there being different types as well!!).

And another interesting thing, I can see now how those 'connections' matter. When this was explained to us by the neuro...it was all about intellect, or remembering things...I, we, can see him react now to exposure and understand precisely how that relates to him lining things up, why he screamed incentently, why he had OCD tendencies, why he couldn't communicate his needs, why he couldn't sleep, and all those other 'typical' ASD tendencies.

Please don't misinterpret my rantings as an attempt to put everyone in a cure-all box...I just mean to say that there may be something here that might help...try it, if it helps it's WAY worth the try! And beyond fructose intolerance there is a HUGE list of metabolic intolerances...I think any child experiencing seizures could explore the possibility of a metabolic disorder.

I was oblivious to these things, and just want to share...that's all...