Helping abused friend

[am I Clearly Me?]

I'm having some problems currently, trying to be supportive of my friend who left her abusive husband of many years, about a month ago. She's been in a pretty good shelter, but has had a problem come up with another resident there who got stinking drunk one night and became very abusive (& threatening) verbally to my friend as well as a few other people. This woman hasn't been kicked-out of the place yet, though there were grounds to do so as she refused to take a breathalyzer test.

My friend was scared to death by the abusive incident at the shelter, and ever since then has been talking about going back to her husband, at least for a while. I'm concerned because she's feeling very beaten-down & is emotionally volatile at the moment. She's also completely exhausted; hasn't been getting much sleep which of course doesn't help. I've been on the phone with her a lot through this, as she's changed her mind back & forth several times.

My difficulty is twofold.

First, my feeling is that the very worst thing she can do, probably, is to go back to him. I know him, I know he resents her leaving and the fact that she's just gotten a bit of financial independence (her Soc. Sec. disability just came through, though the amount is small; she's going to apply for SSI too now), and that he's going to do everything he can to 'punish' her for having left, and for the independence she's gained. And I'm afraid that, in her current mental state, she'll fall back into the old patterns and not get herself back out. Though we're talking about going this coming week to see if we can find her a decent apt. in HUD housing for the disabled. Anyway, I want to be as supportive as possible, but I'm finding myself disagreeing with what she says she wants to do, and having a hard time saying anything to her on the phone. If I said what I wanted, it'd be pretty harsh, and I know (am I right? I think so) that that would be counterproductive. I need to make sure the lines of communication stay open, and that she knows she can count on me.

The other problem is that I'm identifying too much with what she's going through. It brings back so many memories of leaving my husband (3 years ago; it's long over but I have a lot of emotional scars still), and when she talks about going back, in my brain I get myself going back, and what that would have been like (which would have truly been an atrocity). All this in addition to my intense worry about her. I'm having trouble setting emotional boundaries, internally, so that I can handle talking to her and yet maintaining enough emotional distance that it doesn't mess me up (more than I already am right now).

Has anyone been through this, on either side of the situation? What can you tell me that might help me know what she needs that I can provide, and that can help me help myself during this period?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

[suede]

am I Clearly Me,
I believe I can relate very well to what you are going through.
I grew up in a very abusive household and went on to stay in abusive relationships until my early to mid 30's when I finally woke up and came to realize that just because Mom stayed and took it that didn't mean it was right.
One day during a severe beating when my son was in his early teens he got in between us and took some deadly hits and I saw my little girls curled up in balls crying and one having an asthma attack, it was like I was floating above and watching and I thought look at you here you are teaching your children that this is okay that men beat women and women deserve it.
That was the beginning of the end.
He ended up kidnapping my daughters(my son was by a previous marriage)
anyway it took me years to get our lives straight and I married a wonderful man.
I felt so fortunate I wanted to help others to get out of where I had been, I started volunteering at a DV house and was enrolling for classes to work in the DV area.
My counselor had told me he didn't think it would be a good idea as he said it would put me back, of course I just knew I could handle it.
I can't tell you how far back it took, after all those years of fighting not to be killed I ended up trying to take my own life.
Sorry I didn't mean to get in to my history, just wanted to show you how what your going through is not uncommon and it does not make you any less of a friend and person to not be able to handle all this.
As for myself I know all the years I stayed in DV many, many people did everything they could to get me to leave and stay out, I even lost what little family I had left as the couldn't take my bouncing in and out of it anymore.
So please remember and accept that until this friend is completely ready to make the break and stay gone she will always find a excuse to go back.
I'm not saying that the shelter isn't a bad place to be only that when a person wants out they know that there will be a time of adjustment and it won't be easy.
I hope I am making sense here, you can be her friend and you can offer her guidance and friendship but only she can make that choice to stay out.
I wish you and your friend the best of luck and if you need a shoulder, feel free to PM me.
Linda

[Buttons2]

Hi, this is a sad story certainly. But you are reaching out to help yourself now,this shows alot of good sense! She is a fool to think going back to an abusive husband is better than spending some time in a shelter....it's just an excuse. Just as she has excused his behavior many times,now she'd coming up with excuses for her own behavior right?

If the drunken behavior of another woman is more than she can deal with-how will she possibly deal with her husband? Fact is that she won't be able to. She's not strong enough (yet).

It would be easy for me to suggest you pull back from the situation,but I'm not in your shoes! Friendship's are special & very important. But don't risk your own health for her! You have to put yourself first,something it took you years to do in the past. You don't want to lose your own "self" in this mess.

When I say she's looking for excuses-give that some thought. One incident isn't a REASON to go back to her old life. You can't help her if she won't help herself. I think your fears for her are very valid,you can see where this will go,sounds like she's not ready to admit he's the wrong guy for her.

Your friend is using you,that's natural under the circumstances cause she knows she can rely on your help. I see this as a toxic relationship. She asks & you provide. Where does that leave you?

You're very wise to recognize the pitfalls in rooming with her,that would make YOU vulnerable to her husband's actions. Who knows,he may already blame you for her going to a shelter.

I don't have any personal experience with women's shelters so the fact that drug addicts & alcoholics are in these shelters is kind of a shock. Aren't there children there also? Doesn't anyone monitor what goes on? How can any woman feel safe in a place that is allowing this kind of disruptive behavior?

Can we assume your friend is getting some professional counseling? If so,I'd step back & let her listen to what they have to say. You're too involved with this. I'm not being critical of you! Actually I'm thinking of my own situation with my sister. I never hear from her unless she's just been beaten & calls me crying for help. I finally had to give up,she does nothing to help herself. She can come up with more excuses to stay than I can come up with reasons to leave! You simply cannot help someone that won't help themselves.That's a fact. We can love them & be concerned for them,but we cannot change their actions.

I'm being a bit harsh here & I know it. I just want you to think ahead to the future. Always being there for her,always keeping abuse in the front. You've gone on with your own life,she's apparently not ready to make that step. You cannot do it for her!

[JAVISI]

It is a hard road to go down. I think most people that are in an abusive situation, ahve left a few times before we finally are ready to leave. To know that we are capable of living alone. Fear brought me back, embarrassment brought me back, weakness brought me back, thinking that he would change brought me back. I know I hurt my parents by going back to this man that was beating me. It took time for me top realize that what my marraige was, was not love! It was control.
I understand where Tootsie is coming from and I agree with her that she will probably go back, she isn't ready, maybe not quite strong enough, their are many reasons women go back. Try not to be frustrated by it the statistics show that women or men leave a few times and go back before finally leaving fopr good.
I can see her fear when this woman was being abusive, you become so scared! I have been their and still am. I lierally tremble when people argue. It puts me into a panic mode. I know that is not an excuse and it would be very sad if she went back to him. Just try to stay her friend and listen. Tell her as her friend that you know from experience that going back is not an option. Tell her what you want to say but put it in less harsher terms. P0oeple that have never been abused can not understand why she don't just leave. It frustrates me, because they can not understand the fear they put into you! The feelings of worthlessness due to constantly being put down and berated. The emotional abuse to me was worse than the physical. I felt for a while he held my heart and soul in his hands and he was slowly smothering the life out of me!
I hope she leaves, stays strong and take each day one day at a time. She needs help, more help than just you. Like Buttons said, you have to take care of yourself first and foremost!

I don't knoiw if I helped, we all carry our battle scars, Thankfully some of mine are starting to heal. When my best friend from Texas was here she said if you were to die in a year, would you want to be living like this?? What a simple question but it clicked! I knew that because I was sick I would become more vulnerable and I definatly didn't want to live that way the rest of my days. With careful planning I left when he went on a trip. Something was different for this time I didn't cry! I was happy to eave. My divorce becomes final July 1st!

Best of luck to both you and your friend! Love, Javisi;)

[DiMarie]

I'm having some problems currently, trying to be supportive of my friend who left her abusive husband of many years, about a month ago. She's been in a pretty good shelter, but has had a problem come up with another resident there who got stinking drunk one night and became very abusive (& threatening) verbally to my friend as well as a few other people. This woman hasn't been kicked-out of the place yet, though there were grounds to do so as she refused to take a breathalyzer test.

My friend was scared to death by the abusive incident at the shelter, and ever since then has been talking about going back to her husband, at least for a while. I'm concerned because she's feeling very beaten-down & is emotionally volatile at the moment. She's also completely exhausted; hasn't been getting much sleep which of course doesn't help. I've been on the phone with her a lot through this, as she's changed her mind back & forth several times.

My difficulty is twofold.

First, my feeling is that the very worst thing she can do, probably, is to go back to him. I know him, I know he resents her leaving and the fact that she's just gotten a bit of financial independence (her Soc. Sec. disability just came through, though the amount is small; she's going to apply for SSI too now), and that he's going to do everything he can to 'punish' her for having left, and for the independence she's gained. And I'm afraid that, in her current mental state, she'll fall back into the old patterns and not get herself back out. Though we're talking about going this coming week to see if we can find her a decent apt. in HUD housing for the disabled. Anyway, I want to be as supportive as possible, but I'm finding myself disagreeing with what she says she wants to do, and having a hard time saying anything to her on the phone. If I said what I wanted, it'd be pretty harsh, and I know (am I right? I think so) that that would be counterproductive. I need to make sure the lines of communication stay open, and that she knows she can count on me.

The other problem is that I'm identifying too much with what she's going through. It brings back so many memories of leaving my husband (3 years ago; it's long over but I have a lot of emotional scars still), and when she talks about going back, in my brain I get myself going back, and what that would have been like (which would have truly been an atrocity). All this in addition to my intense worry about her. I'm having trouble setting emotional boundaries, internally, so that I can handle talking to her and yet maintaining enough emotional distance that it doesn't mess me up (more than I already am right now).

Has anyone been through this, on either side of the situation? What can you tell me that might help me know what she needs that I can provide, and that can help me help myself during this period?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

The violation of the woman refusing a breathalyzer is enough to get her thrown out. Any acts of violence to another is enough to have her thrown out. Or should I say she violated the rules and must leave.

Your friends safety and that of other families there are the priority.
She should contact the Domestic violence center that referred her there; the district attorney's off and if there is a community help-line. She must have an advocate that is a councilor at the DVS center too.

For one thing, centers are short term, she should think of filing for shelter assistance, as section 8, subsidized housing, and even file for child and spouse support; Alimony pendenta'. THe disabled are placed at the top of the list...Unless she needs a handicap/wheelchair accessable and thereis a wait for that?

She can qualify for funds for transpoftation/ride program, training, child care assistance, even additional medical assistance.

I was in my parents’ rental home; my husband had to leave, but I could not afford the rent and moved into a nice section of low income homes. They were women as I was needed each other too.

Sometimes even the professionals with all the training fail to help those that choose not to help their self. It is a difficult situation. We only see abuse, but as women in crisis, there is baggage from everywhere and so hard to deal with it.

On the average a woman leaves 7 times before she finally leaves.
My prayers to your friend be a supportive listener, but her advice should come from helping herself and professionals.
You don't want to alienate her when all is said and done.
My prayers,
Dianne

[am I Clearly Me?]

First I want to thank you all for your caring & sensitive replies - straightforward can be those things too and I know it!

I'm sorry to report she left the shelter last night & went back to him. Partly she feels unready/unable to really take care of herself, partly she's still dependent on him for some things & doesn't want to give that up. It's partly money, as well. Her Soc. Sec. is considerably less than she expected, and things (when & if she permanently leaves) will definitely be tight for her even with SSI, foodstamps, HUD etc. And she's concerned about not being able to find a safe place to live, and that she'll just become a hermit out of fear of going out. I think she just isn't ready. But she's going to have to deal with it, and she does have help because the shelter's outreach program put her into it right away. So she'll still have access to therapy, meetings, etc.

Her strength in leaving him was quite a motivator for me, and my life's been going better for the last few weeks than it had been in years. I don't want to lose that, in my tendency to over-identify, with her going back. I'm just going to try to maintain the good habits I've been forming, not depend so much on her for my social/emotional contact (I called up my other friend today & have plans to see her for a while on Sunday), and maintain boundaries where I need to. I don't want to be unsupportive where it's appropriate, but I may not be able to handle the renewed complaints about her husband (don't know if she'll do that, but it's a definite possibility). I told her yesterday that we might have to work out what we could discuss and to what extent, and she is, though somewhat wrapped-up in herself, sensitive to my needs.

So, hoo boy! Here we go - at least the shelter director personally told her she was welcome back at any time, so she has that.

[JAVISI]

AmIclearlyMe,
I was afraid that she would go back! I am by no means telling you to give up on her. I just hope that she realized that material things mean nothing if you are dictated and controlled by another! I am glad that you are willing to be a support system. She needs you.

If you can work on her self esteem. She probably has nonr at this point. I have been there and you feel so helpless. Try to get her to join a co-dependancy group. Tell her to come to this website so she can her from others that have been on her shoes. Kids can br a great m otivator. I knew I did not want my kids to think iyt eas altight to traet another in the abusive way I was being treated. That in essence she is hurting her chilgren. I basically had no money when I left my ex.

I had to ;ove with my parents which was hard but at least I felt free finally after over 20 years and freedom feels great is we have not felt it in so many years that you have fotgotten the taste.

Hang in there and be a positive influence and remember that her motivation was the fear and guilt that he she has been and is going through! Please keep us posted

[Buttons2]

Well this is no big surprise,but we aren't here to judge & we're not in her shoes.

Sounds like you are doing good,seeking out other friends right now is an excellent idea. You have to go forward with your life. And you've let her know you'll be supportive but not to the detriment of your own well being. Sounds very wise to me.

Glad to hear the shelter is there for her if she needs it.

Guess we all know her hubby isn't gonna change,but let's all pray he does no exceptional harm to her. I suspect she's not ready to leave yet cause he hasn't pushed to the point of "this is it!" If/when that happens she'll have no choice,and money will be a moot point.

Wishing both of you well......Buttons

[am I Clearly Me?]

Yeah, I think right now she's in a combination of depression and also feeling like she can handle him better (partly because she has her own reliable transportation now & can leave whenever she wants, even if it's just to get out for a while, and partly not for valid reasons, obviously). The abuse has traditionally been verbal/mental/emotional, and one thing I think will happen is that he'll try to 'punish' her for having left him, and make her feel weaker for having returned, and that there wasn't a reason to leave him in the first place. It's too early yet to say how that's going to go down; it's still in the 'honeymoon' phase, as they say.

But I have no doubt he'll go back to the old patterns (he never completely stopped them, and his attempts at manipulation etc. were comic at best - we did get a few laughs). Nor do I doubt that the pressure on her will build again to where it was. I think a lot of what makes it hard for her is that she came from a severely abusive childhood, went into a cult, then ended up with this guy for 30 years. She's definitely lacking in self-esteem and feels like she isn't capable of ever having a healthy relationship, or of making wise choices in making friends. Well, anyway . . . we're going to go out in a while for coffee (well, I'm not a coffee person, but you get the idea), and hopefully have a good conversation.

BTW, I found a good book. A couple of days ago I did some online searches at Amazon (though I bought the book locally), on books re. domestic violence & this is written specifically for people who have already left a relationship (though I can see where my friend could make use of parts of it as well). It's called It's My Life Now ("My" is in bold type, but couldn't get it to read right here), and I went through it pretty quickly, initially, kind of looking for tools for myself as I'm starting to heal & also gain some insight into what my friend is going through, and how to deal with that in a healthy manner. The book is very good, in its 2nd edition, and if you think it might help you, or someone else, to see some of this down on paper (and there are lots of good checklists & resource info too), I do recommend it.

That's all for now. Thanks, JAVISI and Buttons2, for your comments. And the co-dependency group is probably a very good idea. Just last week she got a handout on that from one of the group leaders there, so maybe she'll be open to it.

[Buttons2]

Gotta just take it one day @ a time! I feel that YOU are now better prepared to deal with her & not get sucked into her situation. You're getting more confident & she will see this. Showing is telling. Get on with your life & letting the past go will sink into her brain ya know?

So keep up the good work on your own healing! Thanks for the info on the book. I know several women that could benefit from it!

And I'm very glad to hear she's not been physically beaten up (at least not yet). My sister will be dead before she "wakes up". Still in total denial! "Oh he's changed-he really has!" Total BS!!!! They don't change,hit you once,hit you again!! But there's always hope!

hang on,Buttons

[JAVISI]

Dear Friends,
I am sorry that I have been gone for so long. The time I have been away has been spent mostly in the hospital. I missed you all! I read a book and know that it is still around, It is called "CO-DEPENDANT NO MORE". It really made a difference in my life.

Abuse is such a visious cycle and it is so hard to get out of it. I am thankful that I got out when I did! But I do understand why women stay so long! Those men try to break your spirit, then they have total control. Friend get mad because you stay which hurts you even more!

I would encourage you or anyone that has a friend to keep their friendship. when you lose your friends you are even more isolated! What really helped me was my job! I got great satisfaction and self esteem from there. If she can find something, anything to give her some self esteem. He finally leaving will eventually leave for good!

Dream Big and Reach for the Stars! Javisi

[am I Clearly Me?]

Well, Buttons, actually he used to be physically abusive to her but that stopped; I forget the actual situation but somehow she made it clear to him that she wasn't going to take any more of that. It's been several years now, not to say it couldn't re-escalate & she thinks when she leaves for good (she does tell me she feels she'll leave again but just isn't up to it yet) that he'll probably become dangerous then & she'll have to completely cut contact. Fortunately for her (& them) her kids are grown & out of the house so that's not an issue.

I'm doing pretty well; she's flip-flopping, mood-wise, almost daily which is probably to be expected. She told me a couple of days ago that she was ready to leave him again already, couldn't stand it, but has backpedaled since then & just wants to vegetate for a while. She's calling it 'healing' but I'm not so sure how much she can heal while she's in the same home with him. Maybe in a sense, as in gaining the strength to really leave.

At this stage, I'm not really feeling emotionally invested in it too much, because she's made her own choice, and she's going to have to understand firsthand what the emotional fallout is to her, from that choice. There are times when I tell her 'you need to talk to a professional about that; it's beyond me.' Unfortunately, she hasn't gotten in touch with the outreach program to see anyone. I hope she'll decide it's a healthy thing for her to do, and that she wants to do the healthy things for herself. She's about half-managing, right now.

[Buttons2]

She's just not ready. It will take a crisis. Be her friend but maybe not the crutch?

My mother is nearly 77yr old. Whenever I call her & she begins her tirade about how my dad puts her down & treats her badly,I now just comment "there's no age limit on divorce mom!" that seems to shut her up. Some women would rather suffer than change! Don't know about you guys but I can only listen to negative stuff so long-then I get fed up & turn it back to them: if you're so miserable why don't you just leave?

Some women just want to constantly complain I think. As long as we are there to listen they'll keep it up. And life is too darn short for all the negative to be a constant!

Javisi,you brought up a good point about being there as a friend cause an abused woman needs all the friends she can get.......but there's the other side also,when do these women give back? It can be a vicious cycle! I'm refusing to feel guilt about my sister,I practically raised her,seems like I finally reached my limit with trying to help her. She's sooooo into denial! She's always tried to paint a rosy picture of how wonderful her guy is,it's a lie! Calls me whenever she's been beaten......I simply cannot help her until she decides to help herself.

this kinda reminds me of a comment a friend of mine made to me one day. Her son is in and out of prison all the time. I have no idea what his convictions have been for,what she said can apply to lots of situations: "Well,he must like it there cause he just keeps going back!"

Later Buttons

[JAVISI]

Buttons,
I just hate the thought of her having no one! I was at that point. No one stood up for me. It was like I deserved it so I stayed even longer. So many regrets, so many wasted years! I see the light now but didn't until a friend who was stronger than I pointed out some things to me. It is so hard to leave but once you commit! Completely! You are still fearful but yet you feel such peace and wonderful freedom. Something that you haven't tasted in a long time!

You should never feel guilty for an abused woman going back to her ex. We all are grown women, and we all make choices, some bad some bad! I am bringing up in a meeting that my daughters boyfriend needs to go to anger management. I will probably will make her mad, but I don't care I am trying to protect her from the breaking of her spirit. She acts so tough but I hear her crying and what he says to her. It is abusive! She probably doesn't see it that way but I do!

Well better go, I will have to leave soon!
Dreaming Big and Reaching for the Stars, Love, Javi

[Kashis]

she is on disability so just maybe she can keep her independence by going into assited living where she will be safe its something to check into just and idea

[Kashis]

Just reminds me more and more when I read these posts you only get once chance at life don't waste it this is your time to shine and don't let anyone take that away live everyday like its your last problem is when your abused you never know when that day will come its scarry to me to think back but reminds me just how far I have come