It WAS a Facet Root Injection!

[jena1225]

My first one, and so far so good :D I know, I know, too early to tell, lol But the procedure went well, and the people at the facility were extremely nice!

I guess I can expect some pain for the next 48-72 hours, but not definate. I really hope this one takes, otherwise they have to go into the canal. I have no idea what that is like, but I am assuming it is much like this...

Anyway, all my other pain is still high and have had daily headaches for the last 3 days :( That is unusual for me, but I guess I am not allowed to get rid of one without getting another, eh? :rolleyes:

(Oh, it was L3 to L5/S1) This whole thing started only in L5/S1 in November. How does one get even more herniations, plus stenosis, more progressive degeneration in just 6 short months with NO injury??

[Mark N]

jena, "How does one get even more herniations, plus stenosis, more progressive degeneration in just 6 short months with NO injury??" One has a crappy spine:D and I know from experience. I hope you find the injection has done as much as you think it has. Maybe this weekend you can live wthout one of your pains.

[jena1225]

Thanks Mark, me too :)

Do you think I actually had 3 (or 6?) since he was going from L3 to L5/S1 on both sides, and I have 6 needle holes? And is that the proper name (Facet "Root" Injection? Just curious :p

Wonder why my threads bout this subject has gotten very little response :( You think it is the title? maybe not very interesting? lol The boards seems active tonight :confused: I am sure I will get more, but a curious little bug I am, so i am not good at waiting! Come on people! :p

[Kathi49]

Jena,

You poor thing! I didn't answer last night because I was completely exhausted from dealing with my dog. I was reading...just didn't post and went to bed pretty early. It is just that I spent most of the day TRYING to get him to eat. The Vet had to switch antibiotics so I did some running around yesterday. I went so far as to get Gerber baby meats and those Gerber chicken meat sticks...telling him they were hot dogs! He knows what a hot dog is LOL! He is turning his nose up at EVERYTHING! Anyway, yesterday morning I just sat on the floor with him and cried. Of course he looked at me as if I were insane. So, I got over myself and later in the day I did get the antibiotic down him and he kept it down. It seems all he wants is water...that's it. I will try again this morning to get him to eat...something. But, like people...when your tummy is upset you don't want to eat. At least he is drinking a ton of water.

Anyway, back to you...sorry about that...I was rambling again.

Mark, is right about the crappy spine! I know my neck probably blew out because of an injury I had when I was 12. Who would have guessed? But the NS said he saw an old, old, injury. As for the lumbar; maybe genetics maybe just arthritis and the old wear and tear. It is not like I have never been active. But the fact remains...it is messed up...mainly the facets.

What your doc did was to probably block the medial branch nerve on the facets. From what I have been told the medial branch nerve's sole purpose in life is to transmit pain. That is all it does. So, if yours were being smooshed as they were in my neck, then yep, facet injections will help. Or should help I should say. It seems like he did alot since you said you have a total of 6 little puncture wounds; probably 3 on each side. I just don't recall having that many done at once; I think at the most two on either side but the neck is a different beast all together. Anyway, try to keep a cold pack back there...it will help with the pain. And don't be surprised if the pain worsens for a little while. The steroid should start to kick in...give it a few days though. I hope it works for you. After my injections, my PM did a facet rhizotomy. And it really helped. But I think now that it has been about 6 months the nerves are regenerating or...whatever. I see my PM next week because it is hurting to sit. So, I am getting ready for round...whatever...I have lost count! LOL I am soooooo tempted to say give me a piriformis injection or a coccyx one. But I will let him figure this mess out LOL!

Hang in there...they should help...just make sure you give it time! :D

[jena1225]

Hey girl! LOL, I was totally kidding, really!! And no worries, I love your stories! I just live vicariously through you sometimes, since I have no life! LOL. But, I would like to hear more stories of occurances between you and your DH. They reflect me and mine so well, I get such a big kick out of them! :D

Anyhoo - I think the Doctors just tell you it could take up to 2 weeks for the steroid to kick in so people are not calling EVERYDAY to say it's not working. This way, he can span all his patients calls out between weeks, rather than days! :rolleyes: I mean really, how can it take ANY medicine 2 weeks to work?? Ok, I am sure it's true, but I make a good point, don't I? :D

I am not TOO bad this morning. Yes, it hurts to bend, lift my leg, stand up, etc... but right now it is not throbbing constantly like last 2 days. But, that comes and goes anyway.

I wonder how long you have to wait to move on to next step (canal), if this one does not work? Any idea?

That's crazy that you have had so many! Not very encouraging! lol The good? thing is that I have been nearly stripped of my duties at work, and the kids are gone all day :( :D (hard to decide which some days, as my son has a SCREAMING fit almost every morning! aarrgghh! lol) so I can sit on my butt. Man, I have gained like 7 pounds in the last few weeks too! But, I needed it, and it has always been hard for me to gain weight probably due to metabolism being high. Not anymore though. I guess doing NOTHING will do that, huh?

Ok, now I have rambled!

How are you today? Oh, and I am sorry, but what happened to your doggie?
:( I must have missed the post, please fill me in!

Also, how is the family thing working out? Or, is it? :confused:

[Kathi49]

Jena,

LOL!

Okay, I wish Dr. Steve would come by and explain the steroid thing. :) All I know is that I have always been told to give it a couple of weeks or so. See, it is weird; sometimes it would work in 3 or 4 days and at others 3 weeks! And, no, I have NOT had thousands of injections LOL! I have had a lot in my neck through the years. But in the lumbar...I am trying to remember...one ESI, one Sacroiliac and I THINK one or two facet injections. Boy, do I feel like a dork for not remembering...but it was so spead out over time. Then came the Rhizotomy...not a big deal at all and really helped.

Anyway, just give it time. I swear I felt like a fool when I would call and complain; think I did that a couple of times. And then bingo the very next week it was better.

I am glad you are better though; I know it aches when they are done. Most times I will just come on home and keep an ice pack on my neck or backside just to help with the inflammation. And it seems if I do that right away, I don't pay as much painwise the next day. They are just not fun...plain and simple but when they work, oh boy, what relief!

Speaking of weight gain. It is easy to put it on when sitting around. But, actually I have been losing since I retired which is weird. You would think since I am living the life of luxury (yeah, right), that I would gain a ton. But it is going in the opposite direction. The only thing I have done differently is to eat 3 meals a day...maybe some snacks in between and portion control. Although, I never really had a problem with portion control. I usually just eat until I am full so there is my control LOL! So, it is either due to NOT skipping meals or just not eating that much junk anymore...although I still have to have McDonald's sometimes and junk like that. :) Anyway, I haven't dieted per se at all. I just eat a LITTLE differently now than when I was working. Oh, but it has been a slow weight loss probably 1/2 lb. a month if you average it out.

Hubby is fine. Nothing new to report. I did tell him last night that I just cannot carry that dog up and down the stairs. And he said, "Well, I have to work!" Well, hello!!! Did I SAY he had to stay home??!!! Geez, I just meant that I would have to crate the dog. And the dog needs to be in his crate because he will try to go up the stairs with a lame leg! I guess I need to be more articulate huh? LOL

So, the poor thing, dog I mean, lol, is in his crate and crying. But I can't help it. He tries to follow me everywhere and his leg will just get worse if he tries to go up these stairs!!! So, I am "mean mommy" for the time being.

Oh, and without going into a long, lengthy story...the Vet SUSPECTS Lyme Disease. It is either that, coincidentally having an injured shoulder and an infection in his lymph nodes or maybe even cancer ALTHOUGH he says he does not think so at this time. In any case, the treatment is the same; pain pills and antibiotics. Oops, what I meant to say is the antibiotic treatment is the same for an infection in the lymph nodes. So, that is what I am contending with for right now. I take the dog back in 10 days but if he doesn't eat pretty soon, I may have to syringe feed him...according to my Vet Tech niece. I wish she would get over here and show me how. Actually, I wish I could drop him off at her house. Not that I don't love my dog but she is REALLY good at what she does.

I still need to apologize to my mother. She did write me an email and apologized for starting the whole thing. But you know how it goes. It is best I stay quiet for awhile or I might go off again. So, I am just buying some time. Let me get my thoughts together and then I will talk to her. You know, it is sorting like writing a letter when you are mad and then letting it sit. So, I will probably write to her today or phone her.

Geez, families...especially large ones!!!

[Jo6]

My first one, and so far so good :D I know, I know, too early to tell, lol But the procedure went well, and the people at the facility were extremely nice!
hment!!

I guess I can expect some pain for the next 48-72 hours, but not definate. I really hope this one takes, otherwise they have to go into the canal. I have no idea what that is like, but I am assuming it is much like this...

Anyway, all my other pain is still high and have had daily headaches for the last 3 days :( That is unusual for me, but I guess I am not allowed to get rid of one without getting another, eh? :rolleyes:

(Oh, it was L3 to L5/S1) This whole thing started only in L5/S1 in November. How does one get even more herniations, plus stenosis, more progressive degeneration in just 6 short months with NO injury??

Girl, you are a glutton for punishment!!:confused: I really do hope you will get some relief. the steriods do tend to make you Pork UP! Then again, it may just blow you up like a baloon!:eek: As Forest Gump would say, he got a shot right in the But Tox.

Yesn they do use a # of needles, starting with the "Senior Moment here", whatever it is. They say it will just be "unconfortable".

Don't trust a Dr. that says "oh, it may be just a little unconfortable" That is tDr. speak meaning, Oh it hurts like hell but it won't take long.:p

I really do hope you feel better Jena. Jo

[Kathi49]

Jo,

I am laughing so hard! OMG!

I forgot about the weight gain. Yep, they DO do that!!!

And I love it when the docs say "uncomfortable"! Well, most always it is uncomfortable. BUT there have been times in the past where I thought it was pure torture. I WISH some docs would say...this is gonna hurt like hell! :D

I liked it when my PM said (regarding my shoulder injection), "I am going to try to be as easy I can." And he was! BUT because he never really says stuff like that, I was ready for some intense pain. But he did as he promised...he was very easy...it wasn't bad at all.

[Lea]

Jena,
If the facet injections helped then you would be a good candidate for the facet rhizotomy aka radio frequency ablation or RF for short. It made such a difference in my life. I have it done every 16 months. It usually takes that long for the nerves to grow back. I've had it 3 times. They do both sides of my neck from C3 to C7.

I wouldn't be able to function at all without this procedure. I hope it is your facets, because you could be looking at some significant pain relief if it is.

[jena1225]

Jo, Kathi and Lea, I have no idea how I lost this thread, very strange, but my apologies! Thank you all for your replies!

When I got the injection I was put to sleep for a bit, so I did not feel anything. Plus, I have had so many IV's and needles put into me, that it really doesn't phase me anymore. I also inject myself every other night with my MS med, so it's a good thing it doesn't I suppose. I asked this on another thread I started, but if we really do experience se's from the steroid, do they last for as long as the medicine does? And how long is that usually?

I feel different this week for some reason. Like I am depressed again :( I know b/c I start to doubt everything I am doing as a parent, I have even less motivation than I had, my kids' fighting is getting to me where I don't even want to be around them! I know that sounds bad, but...

Could this be related? B/c just before I got it, I was really feeling good as I felt my Cymbalta finally kicked in when I started the 120 dose :confused:

Any ideas would be great!

[jena1225]

Jena,
If the facet injections helped then you would be a good candidate for the facet rhizotomy aka radio frequency ablation or RF for short. It made such a difference in my life. I have it done every 16 months. It usually takes that long for the nerves to grow back. I've had it 3 times. They do both sides of my neck from C3 to C7.

I wouldn't be able to function at all without this procedure. I hope it is your facets, because you could be looking at some significant pain relief if it is.

Oh! this is another thing that confuses the you-know-what out of me. And I just don't think I ever figured out the right way to ask it, but I will try:

I have heard similiar things before, and if this is true (I am sure it is!), then why would I even NEED the facet rhizotomy if the injection really worked? :confused: Can anyone help me understand this concept? I just have so many questions, that I might need to start a thread on them anyway :rolleyes:

[jena1225]

I am actually looking it up now and reading about this. Very interesting, and I suppose it answers my question as to why I would even need it. It says that it "permanently destroys the nerve fibers that are causing pain". Why do they say that if we do regenerate nerve cells and the pain comes back? That will be my last question for now, promise :p

[tiva]

Jena, I've had wonderful luck with one set of cervical RF procedures a few years ago. I think the explanation you're looking for is this: The rhizotomy is "a percutaneous radiofrequency lysis of the innervation of a facet." I don't believe that all of the nerve fibers in the facet joint are destroyed, but that the nerve going into the facet joint ("innervation") is ablated. These cells are permanently destroyed. (I think of it as the nerve being fried & severed, but I know that is over-simplifying it.) However, over time, new nerve fibers can regenerate around the area where the old ones were destroyed. If I didn't explain this clearly please let me know... And please, anyone correct me if I'm wrong. It may help to do a search on: rhizotomy illustration. I just did one in google, and there are a few illustrations on the first page of results.

I hope you feel better soon!
tiva

[Kathi49]

Exactly Tiva,

I had the lumbar Rhizotomy done in January. I asked question after question after question; just terrified. My PM explained; for one thing...it is not a good idea to get injection after injection. IF the injection works and gives relief, then a Rhizotomy should give longer relief. And, yes, they ABLATE the medial branch nerve that lies somehow in or across the facet NOT any other nerve. I thought the nerve would be totally destroyed. It gets confusing because you would think if they ablate it it would be destroyed. But, not true I don't think. He sat me down and just drew a picture of the whole deal LOL! What he said was that he would ablate a portion that was about the size of a beebee maybe a little smaller. Then my stupid question was, well, what happens if neuromas form? And he laughed and said he would get rid of those too but it has never happened. Anyway, I was told the nerves will regenerate and then you can repeat it. Which may be what is happening now since I had it done in January...I don't really know at this point.

Anyway, I was scared to death about the procedure especially when you think of a nerve being fried! BUT...I did NOT feel it! Honestly, all I remember is some kind of thumping feeling in my leg...that's it! He gave me Versed and something else...see, I can't remember LOL! And I would repeat it again in a heartbeat...no qualms at all! I was sore for a couple of days and that was it. And felt pretty good for a few months...but the pain is back now. Which is why I am seeing him again this week. Okay, now for the stupid part. I WAS talking to him. It's called conscious sedation. I KNOW I fell asleep afterwards but when he woke me up I asked for some VICODOL LOL! I felt like a dork because I was thinking of Vicodin or Toradol. But he said he had already given me some Toradol through the IV to help with inflammation.

Okay, so I did ask him later if I had answered his questions as he did the procedure. And he said, yes, no one yet had ever talked about any skeletons in their closet LOL! So, if he suspects the nerves are regenerating, I will definitely go for this again!

Jena, just know that my own PM does not like giving injection after injection for pain control. I am not saying this very well...duh. I believe what he tries to do is let's say, give an injection or two, if those work and give me relief, and he has found the pain generator, then it is on to the Rhizotomy. Or, I can opt to tough it out with meds. Believe me, I thought long and hard about the Rhizotomy because there are some cons to it. But the benefit outweighed the risks for me anyway. And I am glad I did it. However, I would not let them do it in my neck. But the real reason was I needed a fusion anyway. So, that's my story. Others may have had a different experience. Oops, I just saw what Lea wrote and yep, if it is your facets which I believe it is, then an RF would be the way to go.

[Jo6]

Jena, I hope you are still getting relief from the injection. I have had them and it lasted several months, then others, well, I should have left the pain where it was to start with.

I was not making light of your situation the other day when I posted about your injection. I was trying to be light hearted, but it may not have worked out that way. I'm sorry if I offended you.

I am in so much pain this morning I am about ready to scream. I've got a Drs. appointment this afternoon. I have long list of things I want to talk to him about. We shall see if he stays in the room long enough to listen.

I feel for all of you. Life isn't easy as a chronic painer!! I hope this will post. I am having a time to get a post before it dumps me off the line. julia

[jena1225]

No way Julia - not me! I think I was just not up to par when I replied to this, so MY humor was hidding away somewhere :mad: I'm sorry!

I love lightheartedness actually, as I think we all must have it. I don't think I have ever really taken anything "personal" unless you were attacking me! lol That is just not my personality :p

I love your posts :D I did gain some weight, but not to be gross, but I swear I had not had a BM in almost 2 weeks, then yesterday I knew it was coming and told DH to keep the phone close, as I may need a ride to the ER! weighed myself before and after, and I lost 2.5 lbs! I swear! lmao!

[Kathi49]

Julia,

Me too! PM appt. on Thursday and I too have a lot to talk about. I think the nerves are regenerating or else I have been doing too much. But...ouch!!!

Jena,

Leave it to you to lose 2.5 lbs. at one sitting LOL! But I DO know what you mean. I think "Fiber One" cereal is some of the cause of my weight loss. :D

[jena1225]

Ladies, please let me know how you appts go! I hope you 2 are feeling better. It's just an everyday thing for me. If it's not the Lumbar pain, its the MS pain, but all in the back, and some in feet, but nearly as bad. I just can't stand being in my own skin. Oh, I did some very minor stretches this morning, to keep my body doing something, well it aggravated something in the lumbar. I also wonder since I have the 3 bulges, stenosis, spurs, and osteo, DDD, IDD... how will I know the shot even works? Unless it is supposed to make ALL of that feel better??