Stress/family drama intensifies the pain [Archive]

krashleen

05-29-2007, 02:20 PM

Long story short..my son who is 22 married a girl who is domineering, and because her Mother was ill, couldn't have a church wedding, and my husband's family in another state couldn't attend the small wedding we did have.

Fast forward, we had a family reunion, told the kids we would buy their air tickets, pay their hotel room, rent the car (she is pregnant now with our first grandchild) and she could meet our family.

Our older son is dating our DIL's EX best friend...and he originally could not come with us to see his grandma..and his g/f is a serious relationship. We found out a couple weeks before the family reunion he could in fact go, and we invited our son's g/f as well, but because of the disagreement (which is petty in everyone's estimation) we elected not to tell our DIL right away because of how tempermental, childish behavior (history is; she boycotted HER OWN FAMILY's CHRISTMAS last year and went to the movies instead!) so we knew that she could back out last minute, and tried to avoid that.

I told her the day before we left, that my oldest son was going with his g/f (her ex b/f) and she was in shock. First I got reamed by phone by my son. Then in the evening I was told off my DIL, and told my family event was a "sham" and that she didn't want to go. I was in tears most of the day. I apologized. She said I didn't sound sorry enough to her. It went on and on with disrespectful comments, wouldn't let me get a word in edgewise.

She and my son went on the trip. I didn't tell the family about her childish behavior. We played nice. She met the family, seemed to enjoy the family. She gave presents to all.

On the drive back to the airport, we again apologized said that we were sorry with humbleness, hat in hand behavior, saying that it 'started out badly, but we hoped that they enjoyed themselves and that we hoped that they could forgive us' they didn't respond at all. Instead they started talking about their dogs and how they missed them.

The DIL has been in treatment/counseling and had been on medication before and is no longer in treatment or medicated, and I wonder about her stability and her attempts to alienate our son from us. Her behavior towards me, her spewing venomous words towards me still sting, and hurt and I am still in tears because I and others I have talked to about this say what she said isn't true.

I don't know what to do. We are expecting a grandchild in a few months, and I am concerned that she is going to hold my condition, my use of pain meds against me...she has already planted the seed with my son. I have balance issues due to my condition...but I wonder if she would blame my meds for that instead?

My pain levels are shooting through the roof, but no one suffers more than them, she doesn't understand chronic pain and I think no I believe that they don't understand that I will have this the rest of my life. I am trying my best to deal with this with love and compassion, but now I feel the best thing to do is distance myself.

Has anyone else gone through this? I don't know what to do, my heart aches, and my pain is worse than its been in months, but of course I cannot tell them this.

TIA
K

spoiledbeth

05-29-2007, 09:26 PM

K,

I am so sorry you are having to go through something like this! Your daughter in law sounds rather spoiled, and your son is going along with her. I understand that when a man marries they are supposed to leave their families and cleave to their wives, but that is taking it a little too far. We have had issues in my family with my brother not liking my boyfriend, things like that, but my brother would never be so disrespectful to either me or my parents to let a situation get like that. I think you handled it really well, matter of fact, I don't think you could have handled it much better. They were more than happy to take the free trip from you, and it seems that they didn't even say thank you for the opportunity... It seems like she has some issues, and hopefully once the baby ccomes she will be able to get back on meds or whatever help she needs. I know it's hard not to take this kind of thing personally, but you need to remember that THEIR behaviour was out of order, not yours, and you can only control yourself. Maybe your son will see her behaviour for what it really is one of these days.

*hugs* Just wanted to give you my thoughts on the situation... sorry you had to deal with some one like that!

Mark N

05-29-2007, 11:57 PM

Peter B

05-30-2007, 01:00 AM

Kath,
I think Mark hit the nail on the head. You have bent over backwards (ouch), in order to make peace. Your son and his girl don't seem to be interested in harmony. Sounds horribly childish and petty. Mark knows that after a certain point you NEED to do what you know is right for you're own peace of mind. I know you're going to want a relationship with your grandchild but Kathleen, at what price?

Good luck and pain free days,
Pete

krashleen

05-30-2007, 10:49 AM

I lost my post to you so I will try again. It is too bad that things are the way they are with you and your son & DIL. The only mistake it seems you made was trying to work around her and get everyone to the reunion. Based on what happened I would say to do things the way you would normally do them for everyone else and let them decide what their actions will be.

You went out of your way to make things work and then apologized for delaying letting them know of the brother coming. They haven't acted with consideration and there isn't much anyone can do about them. My wife is acting like this with me and I have found that I have to do what I think is right and she will have to choose her course of action. Tying to protect her and work around her moods has just allowed things to get worse. Dealing with her straight up at least lets me know I am doing the right thing and I think that is the approach to take with your DIL.

I hope you have everything smoothed over by the time the baby comes so that you will get to see and be with your grandchild as much as you want.

Mark, what good advice you have given here. I have to take the high road NUMBER ONE. HONESTY, well, number one too! If they choose to behave in such a manner than I have to keep my emotions in check and know that I did all I could.

You did hit the nail on the head. I am still trying to recover physically as well as emotionally from this, and these "moods" that she has, disrupt the whole family. And with chronic pain conditions, stress exacerbates pain.

I also think they underestimate the chronicity of my physical issues, and that perhaps that will also bite me in the butt too. There has been comments about my driving habits which aren't that good. But, I have concerns that they will use my condition, to limit my exposure to the baby since I have balance issues.

As my oldest son says " there is always drama in that family" so it goes.

I so appreciate the grounding words I got here. I just needed to vent about it.

And yes I will stop "bending over backwards" as my back is killing me. My head hurts too.

Mark N

05-30-2007, 03:55 PM

Tia, it is a good thing you posted here in time, you can't be bending over backwards with your spine in this shape:eek: . Who knows what kind of shape you would have been in if you didn't come here and vent:) . Sometimes ccoming here so the rest of the family doesn't hear it is the best thing. I have to do that to keep from dragging too many of my family members down talking about how my wife is treating me. Come and vent all you need to. You did everything you could to make it better and they will have to decide if they are going to act like adults and accept your apologies.

suede

05-31-2007, 04:49 AM

K,
I know all to well how this goes when your children have spouses that behave this way.
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this while you are dealing with so many of your own health issues, it's never easy.
I may get some criticism for this but I will say it anyway after having been denied seeing grandchildren before.
Mark is right as always and offers such great advice, however with me when it comes to my grandchildren I'm able to pay the higher prices and have been for a long time now.
IT sounds as if you don't live real close by to your son and his wife, even if you do though I would try to limit my spending time with them and or phone conversations to times when I was able to keep them short and sweet and avoid talking about your health problems, it sounds like your DIL will never understand what your condition is all about(probably to self centered) anyway.
I have found that it is better to just try to keep the lines of communication open and the peace so that I will be able to share in the lives of my grandchildren.
I however hope that your DIL takes a change of heart and these problems pass..
Feel better and try not to let this effect your health, though it is never easy.
Linda

Mark N

05-31-2007, 05:23 AM

Linda, you give some insightful advice [inciteful, I originally spelled it this way inadvertently oops:o ] . It helps to hear from someone that has gone through it before. No matter what I say I don't have the full depth of knowledge for Tia's situation because I haven't had to go through it yet [hopefully not ever as my kids are open with me]. Your advice was to the point about needing to do your best and limit the extra contacts with her DIL. It is easier to deal with her to see the grandchild and other times keep it short and on topics other than your health. I hope that you have been able to have more contact with your grandchildren now than in the past.

jena1225

05-31-2007, 10:04 AM

[QUOTE=Mark N;111143]I have found that I have to do what I think is right and she will have to choose her course of action. Tying to protect her and work around her moods has just allowed things to get worse. Dealing with her straight up at least lets me know I am doing the right thing and I think that is the approach to take with your DIL.

QUOTE]

Hey Linda. Sorry you had to go through this crap :mad: And what Mark has said is perfect, you just have to put it into "action"! That is the hardest part, since our initial reaction is to think it is OUR responsibility to keep people happy. It's not, and especially for someone who treats you like Sh%$! That ticks me off, and I wish I could get MY hands on her! lol. I'm ok, sorry :rolleyes:

The best reaction, is NO reaction. I think I said the same thing to Mark a while ago :confused: Did it work Mark? It always has for me. I would not give that girl the time of day, let alone take away any peaceful moments I MAY have. I really hope she will see that she is no better than anyone else around her, and that if she does keep your GB away from you, she is only hurting that child :mad:

Sorry about the rant, but I used to let people make me feel that way, and I know how much it hurts. Put yourself first please, and literally move foward with your day all the while remembering that NOONE is going to make you feel bad!!

Let us know how things go :)

Spiney

05-31-2007, 12:25 PM

Gee, lots of great advise and everyone is right. The challenge is how to put it all into effect.

You have certainly demonstrated that you care for the couple and are willing to more than go the extra mile. THEY have demonstrated that they do not appreciate it one bit. I would guess that the young woman is going to grab onto any excuse, realistic or not, to cause conflict. You appear to be in a "no win" position where she is concerned. With this in mind, do not demean yourself in the hope of winning her over or preventing conflict. That isn't going to happen. IF she has made up her mind that you are going to have minimal contact with the child, there is little you can do to change that.

Keep the lines of communication open with your son. Keep the conversations short, sweet and frequent. Don't bother discussing your aches and pains. They don't understand and there is no point in giving them unfair ammunition to keep you from handling the child. Inquire as to the spouses well being but limit the amount of actual contact that you have with her. She can't stir up trouble if she can't "get to you". Holding contact with a grandchild over one's head, is sick. Sadly, I am familiar with that game.

If you don't respect yourself and maintain some healthy boundaries, they never will. They may not anyhow but that is their choice. Beating yourself up will only re-enforce her behavior.

There are no guaruntees so do your best to remain in communication with your son and do it in a manner which maintains a reasonable amount of self respect. Best wishes.

krashleen

05-31-2007, 01:04 PM

My humble thanks to all of you. I do appreciate the fact that I do have to keep a semblance of integrity to my behavior and I will. I have to limit my exposure to them, be there when they need me/us. Did I tell you we loaned them over 6K to help out when they were in dire straits but when we mentioned that we were having financial problems, I got yelled at for "lording all the money they owed us and it made them sick and tired of hearing it" and the son threated me with legal action when I wouldn't turn over a small education fund to him since I knew he would use it for household expenses vs college. All since he has been with this lady (before marriage)

Then the other shoe...do I tell MY MIL about her? My husband's sister says I should that she can help gain some peace to this situation(very prayerful woman) but I don't want to ruin their relationship...its a tough situation.
I had the opportunity to tell my own MIL last night and I didn't...my DH says no. I didn't. But I will be spending some time with my MIL later this month, and it probably will come up as I am pretty honest with her. I may leave out some things to avoid destroying their relationship but enough to allow her mature insight...thoughts on this?

still I am coming to a peacful place in my own mind. It still hurts, and it probably always will. We live close by part of the year but due to SSDI, I live part time in the warmth and part time close by family when my husband works out of state.

There is excellent advice here, I am going to refer back to this often to keep my head on straight...

Blessings to all to took the time to answer. Only one who has walked in these shoes really understands what we go through.

Spiney? You are so right...no win situation when all there could be is good. I don't understand this kind of drama. If it isn't one thing it will be another, and you are right..short/sweet and be supportive to my son. God knows what he has to go through. My SIL told me this too.

Mark N

05-31-2007, 03:04 PM

Tia, I can tell you from my experience with a wife that creates drama [not same reason your DIL does] that your son is going through things yu don't know about but it doesn't excuse his behavior towards you. Don't put it on DIL because he should be man enough to stand for what is right. What he does understand it is his choice to act that way.

I don't know the MIL but I would say that you shouldn't say anything. She is well aware of how her daughter is and hearing from you wouldn't make it better. You know what the best way to deal with this is and as long as you are doing the right thing you won't be wrong.

krashleen

05-31-2007, 07:29 PM

No I am referring to MY MIL not her mother.

My SIL on my husband's side says her mom, my MIL needs to know how fake she is, and what she said. I don't know. Some moments I want to say something and let her know, and other moments no, I don't want to tell her.

suede

05-31-2007, 10:08 PM

K,
As you have said it is a no win situation.
I have gone through this with 2 of my children's spouses and believe I do understand, right now I'm going through something very similar with my daughter and her family.
I have never been one to hold back feelings and my mouth but believe me I have learned the hard way these last years it just doesn't pay to put it all there.
I have held back til I have had bleeding ulcers and breakdowns only for it to change nothing.
As for telling your MIL, I honestly feel that is something you have do what you feel is best and most comfortable for you.
Are you concerned that Your son and DIL may go to her for money or to try and turn the table on you and make you look like the villain, if not I would have to suggest that you tell your MIL as little as possible and tell her that you just really don't want to sway her feelings towards them but want her to be aware of some things.
It's so hard I have 2 grandchildren I haven't seen in at least 5 years and it tears me apart inside unfortunately when your child is the male in a relationship often DIL's can make it very hard or impossible to see your GK, not that it doesn't happen the other way around too, just not as often..
I'm glad you are finding some peace in all this..
Linda

krashleen

06-08-2007, 02:33 PM

Well the other shoe dropped. I told my son that his wife called our family event a sham before we got to the family event.

Now she is all riled up again. Now she is through with me. Now she says that I will not be able to see the grandbaby without her present.

My son said to me that "she doesn't fight fair" and "she goes straight for jugular" and this is from the husband! He also said that she warned him that there was lots of drama in her family's lives. He didn't believe it. Now he does.

I feel badly for my son. I talked to him about forgiveness. Evidently that didn't come across when he talked to her.

The baby is due in two months. I don't know what to say or do...I am NOT trying to break them apart.
I just want to have my grandparents visits and rights and have comfort with them.

I couldn't sleep again last night..tired, hurt..

vent over..I think for now...

All I want is peace.

curiousforever

06-08-2007, 02:50 PM

I'm so sorry.

The only thing I can think is that you're probably going to have to go thru your son to see the grandbaby.

jena1225

06-08-2007, 03:13 PM

Oh Krashleen, I am so sorry :( I can only imagine what you must be feeling right now. But, since your son does seem to "see" what his wife is really like, and not blinded by love, that is a GREAT sign! and could mean the difference between u getting to see your GS or not, IMO. Since his eyes are NOT closed to how she is, I do not know your son, but I can't see him not letting you see your GS. But using that innocent baby to hurt you is the most selfish, self serving, cruel thing anyone could ever do :mad: - Although I don't think your son will do this, the fact that she is willing to do something like that, proves that she does not deserve your love and friendship by any means. I really hope your son sees what kind of woman he is married to, and in no way puts up with that, b/c they are only hurting that baby!

Hang in there - I truly believe the good will prevail ;)

Mark N

06-08-2007, 04:03 PM

Tia, I forgive my wife for her behavior and she doesn't see it either so I can tell you from experience what some of it is like for your son. I have paid a price for standing up to my wife's behavior at times. other times she is as nice as she can be and pleasant to other people. Please trust your son and don't put him in the middle between his wife and his mother you may not like his choice. He will do his best and if you trust him to do that and treat his wife with kindness, that she doesn't deserve at times, you will give him the chance to keep things as pleasant for both his families as he can. Don't complain about her and just have pleasant chats with him whenever you can.

Please understand that everyone doesn't agree with marriage as a sacred union but there are some of us that don't see divorce as an option. It doesn't make my point of view right or wrong but I wanted to give you a different perspective on dealing with your DIL. Let her comments go right past you and show her the forgiveness she has never known. I can tell from my experience that she may never learn it but without an example like you she has no chance to learn it.

I wish you the best and don't get upset by her threats. Pregnant women aren't feeling very well with 2 months to go and their hormones are making a mess of them, some women that is, so trust your son to keep things right and not allow his wife to deny you any time with your grandchild.

krashleen

06-08-2007, 05:18 PM

I see both points, but my heart is broken. Truly if someone can break someone's heart with their behavior this is it.

I do not want to come between them I respect marriage. I want to make peace and told my son that. He is pretty level-headed, but is like the rest of our family (our side) and gets it out, and is loving once again.

I feel I cannot tell him something that she said to me in the text messages, which btw I didn't respond to. I feel the best thing to do is nothing. I want to text back "I forgive you" and let it go after that. My heart will hurt, but I don't want to incur her wrath again.

It is a self-serving selfish thing to do. I have now talked to my family and they have told me that I am not those things. I have been looking inward to see whether I some how inspired these events and I am more confused than ever.

I am thinking of seeking a counselor/mediator to see if they would go, but now of course isn't the right time. I will wait. I don't want to anything to harm our so far damaged, deterioated relationship.

Is their hope? Can we find peace? Will she speak ill of us when we aren't there because of this incidence?

I don't know. It just isn't fair.

Mark N

06-08-2007, 06:28 PM

Tia, of course it isn't fair and she isn't acting in a loving manner. Still you have the relationship with your son to maintain and she is part of his life. As I said, I am living with a wife that is often times like your DIL it isn't easy nor is it right but the better people have to do the right thing in spite of what your DIL does.

You are not wrong in your reaction but you are in the position of choosing to be the better person and you never know, your example may teach your DIL a better way to live. I feel for you just as I do myself with what I go through with my wife.

PS don't write back that you forgive her if you want things to get better. I know my wife would be furious and think you are in no position to forgive her for doing what she thinks is right and I bet your DIL would react the same way.

krashleen

06-08-2007, 06:44 PM

Thanks Mark. I think you have my DIL already figured out, and you have my empathy in this. I don't know how you do it...

Its very emotional. It seems that they are alienating people right and left and don't have many friends left. NOMB...I know. But perhaps one day they will look around and realize that its their behavior and look inward.

And you are soooo right. I cannot write "I forgive" even though I do in my heart. We are so different. I wish they would consider a counselor/mediator for this relationship.

Already, she has kicked my son out of the house...he goes over to his brother's and gets drunk and sleeps on the couch. Not a real good sign.

I guess she also wouldn't like to hear that I paid the last 600 on her wedding ring when my son called up and needed money.

sigh.

And the money 'giving' is over as well.

krashleen

06-08-2007, 06:52 PM

So how is your wife's relationship with your parent's Mark?
Just curious...

Mark N

06-08-2007, 08:12 PM

Tia, my mother is the only one alive but while my father and then my mother's second husband were along she didn't get along with the men. There was an incident with the second husband where I disciplined my son but he didn't think I was tough enough and went on a rant about what a brat he would be as a teenager [well he is a polite great kid so I guess he didn't know what he was talking about]. It was a bit heated but not too bad and my wife wanted to leave right then [late in the evening]. She also said we would never go back again and I told her we would go back but wouldn't leave the kids alone with him. I wasn't going to let my mom suffer because her husband was too hard handed with kids [he was estranged from his oldest son]. She didn't openly say anything to my dad but didn't like to have him around even though he was very considerate of her and took her side many times.

Like I said, your DIL is worse of than my wife and seems to harbor these feelings for different reasons than my wife. If she is playing these games with your son so early in life you wonder if she will come to see what she is doing to her relationships. I don't have a lot of hope for her. My wife hurts our family and puts on 'a show' [her term] for others. However she has cut herself off from good friends and family from time to time and always sees it as the other person's fault. I feel for you because I know how it can put a strain on the family. I hope your son has many more good times with her than bad as I have had with my wife, other than a couple of rough spells.

krashleen

06-08-2007, 08:49 PM

Thanks just to for listening Mark. It does my heart good even though its been a tearful day for me.
My husband says that our son won't keep our GD from me, but I don't know and I won't say a word to either of them

I don't know anything except to stay out of her/their way.

There are issues that I think are being layered on us for past transgressions by her own family and I have no idea what those transgressions are. I cannot imagine what trouble/problems she has had in her childhood that makes her so vindictive and so vicious at times. She waited until she married our son to show her true colors.
She warned our son early on that there was lots of drama in her family and for the tiniest of reasons. I have heard some of them of the sisters and some of them are for wearing the wrong color. They all throw temper tantrums. There is nothing I can do to change this. He fell in love with this woman, and I by marriage have to figure out a peaceful means.

Mark N

06-08-2007, 09:06 PM

Tia, you know the reason for her behavior and it is unknown [I know of some of them and am forgiving of my wife because of what happened] past transgression in my wife's family that gets heaped on me. It is too bad that your DIL is unwilling to seek counseling to work through this but not much you can do but make things as nice as possible. I think your husband is right about the grandchild.

krashleen

06-08-2007, 10:15 PM

jena1225

06-08-2007, 11:29 PM

jena1225

06-08-2007, 11:43 PM

Oh but the wrath!!
You are right.

I am formulating a letter right now. I cannot handwrite letters because of my hands. Its easier for people to read my typewriting, and my hands go weird, and my writing is worse than a doctor's !!
So I will accept all blame for this. In the letter I am writing its all my fault, and I apologize profusely which I am truly sorry for the deception that part was wrong.
I have to move on, without moving on we are stagnant and nothing changes.

I hope I am right.
Thank you Mark

I did have more to say, but wanted to get that to you before you did that just in case.

Can I ask what prompted you to do that? I hope I am not overstepping my bounds, but I know you were looking for some advice, and well, when you said what you were going to do, I about hit the floor!

I understand that you want to smooth things over so everyone can move on. But, IMHO it just doesn't work doing it that way, and I believe it will make things worse.

She will go on thinking her behavior is acceptable, and it is not. You will also be granting her permission to do it again, as if enabling an "abuser" if you will.

You are in a great position to be able to teach her just HOW to act in society AND at the same time, be accountable for her actions. Not necessarily directly, but indirectly by how YOU act. And taking responsibility for things just to "appease" someone, in my opinion is setting a bad example for how life really works...

Of course you would love for things to be fixed right now, but writing those things will not fix anything, it will only throw it under the rug until next time. Before you know it, you will be saying sorry so much, you may very well start losing who you are...

krashleen

06-09-2007, 12:30 AM

I see what you are saying. I am a compromiser, always have been. I hate dissension, I hate arguements.

I am a pleaser. I saw argueing in my family while growing up, my Dad walking out the door. The arguement preceded him leaving. My mother died shortly after that. No chance for reconcilation. In my adult life, I realize it would never of happened.

My letter is saved in word. I can choose to send it or not.

I dunno. I am so perplexed by this, and want to have things go well, that even going to the store now I see women around my DIL's age and wonder if they love their parents, their in-laws, are they enemies? Did I create an issue? I really, truly did not realize that she would go ballastic on us. I really didn't. Did we deceive them that much to deserve this viciousness? No I don't think so, but we still have it and have to figure things out from here. I have to be adult here, and I am one to speak my mind, always have been. I have a hard time holding it in. Pretty much everyone knows where I stand at all times. I can take pretty much what is dished out, but what was dished out at me was more than even I could take.

My DIL told me to stop being a "victim" and while I don't think I have been; have I? I have had a rough couple of years. I had brain surgery. I have just been approved for SS disability. My condition is not better. My pain levels are through the roof. I don't need the complications of this.

Although resigning myself to this, this unnecessary "surrender" of sorts is not really my style, I need to have some closure. More examination is difficult since there is a grandchild that I yearn to see.

My own son is lying to me as well. The incident that I spoke of earlier? The holiday dinner that they went to a movie instead of attending? My DH reminded me that they WERE invited, and my son told me yesterday they weren't. So they are lying to suit their purposes, their end. That angers me. Thats another reason that makes me think that they are not mature. But they have to be. They are bringing another life into this world. And they seem to be worried about me? It doesn't make sense.

Its twisted our family dynamics. Its not easy. I wish that things hadn't been this way. It will always be there if there isn't someone that steps up to the plate and says "sorry I was wrong" and while I am not entirely wrong...my husband says that my son needed to know that his wife couldn't speak to me that way.

Where does it end?

Jena, you are right. It doesn't feel right... But I wonder at what sacrifice that I keep my standards. I love my family and to be honest and anyone that knows me, I would lay down my life for almost all my family, extended family and all.

I need a pill. My head hurts, my back hurts and my heart still aches.

krashleen

06-09-2007, 12:32 AM

Jena, you are not overstepping your bounds at all!
Please don't say that. I truly believe all have something worthwhile to say. I listen to all..and I understand what you said. I am still evaluating it..I actually am supposed to go to a baby shower on Sunday, that I am not going to at this point due to my being uncomfortable. I think I knew as I gave my son the baby shower gifts yesterday.

Funny how we know stuff happens, eh?

So do I go?

Kind of like that song, should I stay or should I go??

Mark N

06-09-2007, 05:43 AM

ICU2

06-09-2007, 07:40 AM

Tia, I would advise you not to take responsibility for all the problems in your letter. I can tell you though that apologizing to my wife doesn't make her change her ways. She wants it her own way and anything else is bad in her eyes. She admitted to me that she always did things to please the man she was with but turns around and blames me for what happened in the past like I was supposed to read her mind.

You can make things better by not bringing up issues with them but by gently holding your ground. There will be blow ups and you need to be able to let is pass on by. It isn't easy when you love someone so much and it hurts when they act out but not much you can do about it except walk away from them or deal with the situation as best you can. I know from my own example that my wife doesn't realize what she is missing until she thinks it is gone from her life.

I have noticed that once disability hit that my wife saw it as her chance to establish control but doesn't realize that she doesn't have the control she thinks she does. Your DIL grew up with drama and that is the only thing she knows to do to get her point across and gain some control in her life. It is a difficult situation for you and you can only do the best you can.

...in the parallel universe theory. MARK!! Some how, you're living my life! :)

Humility is really one of the hardest roads to walk, but it does pay off in the end. When we rise up (either offensively or defensively) even if we are in the right, it just seems to create more distance between us and the person we're trying to help understand.

Don't get me wrong, we need to stand up for what we know to be right, but we all know there is an attitude that can sneak in that says, I WILL HAVE MY WAY BECAUSE I'M RIGHT! Resisting that, is the way of humility. We're not door mats, we should express ourselves in a matter-of-fact way. BUT! Even having said that, when I take this road with my wife, I often get confronted with "you're just trying to make yourself out to be better than me!" I don't say it because I know it would be like throwing gas on a fire, but down inside there's the voice that says, "You really don't understand. I'm not trying to make myself better than YOU. I'm just trying to make MYSELF better..."

I really hope it all works out.

Mark N

06-09-2007, 08:29 AM

ICU2, talk about a parallel universe my wife uses the same phrase on me when I am quietly pointing out the way I approach things: "you're just trying to make yourself out to be better than me!" If you ever find a way to deal with her that works, let me know what it is. I have tried everything under the sun but leaving and I won't do that. She is just so full of herself right now and shutting out anyone me, the kids, friends that don't agree with her. She distorts what I say and things that have happened in the past. I have tried to get her to reread a book she bought years ago 'Don't Sweat the Small Stuff in Love" she won't do it, why it will tell her the same things I am trying to tell her.

I make it through each day with her the best I can. ICU2, I hope you find the answer and help us both out.

suede

06-09-2007, 09:19 AM

I can't tel you how sorry I am that this is still not settling down for you.
I can't offer you any better advice then you have already been given.
I can relate to your pain though very personally.
It seems when we have sons and children with their wives the DIL'S rule it's not like when our daughters have children.
I have 2 GC from my son and his wife, she took off in the middle of the night with another man and I haven't seen my GC in over 3 years..
It hurts everyday, so all I can really say is just do your best to keep peace and know that telling your son anything that his wife has said or done won't help matters, chances are he already knows and is trying to keep peace in his house.
Unless your son asks you right out about any thing I would keep quiet and even then I would word what I have to say carefully, as this is his wife and his child and well as the story goes his first priorities now.
I guess I did have some advice.
I hope that t hings calm down on this front soon and for all of you concerend..
Linda

Mark N

06-09-2007, 10:32 AM

Linda, I really feel sorry for you and your son that she was so cowardly to sneak out in the middle of the night to run away and take the children. I hope your son has pursued finding the children and taken steps to see his children. I wish you weren't dealing with this.

krashleen

06-09-2007, 11:55 AM

I don't want to argue with anyone. I don't believe under the circumstances I should of even argued WITH her.

She did push a lot of buttons and I finally reacted and said how I felt.

Its now distorted, and now I am the one that has to bring the peace back because everyone else is too stubborn. I don't know how to change that part of it.

I guess I need to work on things a bit.

Linda, I am so sorry that your GK's aren't around for you to see. If you know where they are, you can get grand parent's right/visitation..I have read about that.

Thank you.

jena1225

06-09-2007, 03:52 PM

Linda, I too am sorry about your situation, that has got to hurt :( I am glad you mentioned the "grand parent's right/visitation". Are you able to do that as well?

Krashleen, you are in a tough position, and there is really no right answer, so I feel bad :(Maybe you could just not say anything, and let things smooth over on their own? But whatever you do, please keep your head high, literally, and keep telling yourself that YOU are the one with the best intentions for all, and eventually it will show through your attitude. Please try to refrain from EVER justifying yourself to anyone, it makes it seem to others as though you are doubting yourself. That is just from my experience. Plus, saying less has always worked really well for me. I hope that makes sense!

I hope they come to their senses and stop doing things that only brings pain.

krashleen

06-09-2007, 04:56 PM

Interesting thread from an unlikely source, showing how DIL's really feel about MIL/FIL's and some really horrid stories.
OMG!
DISCLAIMER~THIS IS NOT ME NOR MY SITUATION!!!
Found in a search..

Last night my MIl left a rather mean, nasty message on my hubbys VM blaming me for everything and stating that I am evil.

Today she called with an even worse one, I am gonna play this one for my shrink! LOL

She said, "your Dad told me that you said that you can trace many of your problems back to the way I raised you and they go along with BPD"...then proceeded to say that:
1. I am trying to convince my husband that he is "MENTALLY CHALLENGED" "and honey, there is nothing wrong with you, she is the one who is mental and has BPD"
2. I have always tried to push his family away and pull mine in, and I have been controlling his thoughts
3. We are "mentally abusing" our son by keeping him away from her.
4. I am "bored and need a job" which is why I have started picking on my husband and his family (I have worked FULL-TIME and attended school my whole life (since I was old enough to work), and just finished my last course for my M.A., I just had back surgery!) She has not worked a day in the last 20 years!
5. My family is messed up and has alcoholics, just like theirs, only I am making them out to be the bad ones while I make my own family out to be angels (I have gone to therapy with my Mom and Dad seperately, BTW)
6. I am the mental one and have tried to control everyone in my life, from my brother (he lives in San Diego) to my Mother (who helps me a lot because of my disability), and my father (what?!!)...even my best friend.

My husband said for me to ignore them. I wrote both she and her husband scathing letters that called them out and reemphasized some points we were trying to make in the first place, he says to to send them. Don't engage. We decided that a while ago, and I think it is for the best.

How can she think that our son should be subjected to someone who speaks about his parents that way?

Help!!!
Response:
Oh man,shes going for the throat isn't she?Your situation is sooooo similar to my own in some ways.MIL was called on her poor child rearing skills and refuses to admit it so now she's attacking you.She's accusing you of being the thought police even.I'd reconsider the sending of the letters because they will use it against you i'm afraid.Something written is something documented and the mode she's in, she would use it to try and prove her claims.As far as mental abuse by keeping your son away?Thats BS!
With the phone harassment and messages she has left and the ignoring of your son,you have every right to keep him from that.

I'd stay away from her and her husband completely before it gets any uglier.
Using my situation as an example,i finally told my husband if he wants to see them he can go-*alone*.There comes a time you have to consider your own preservation because you are no good to yourself or family if your all stressed out and unhealthy.I was called psycho,'ho,delusional and arrogant and probably a few other names i don't know about when my husband started putting his foot down.All the things they are,they called me.I would let it cool waaaayyyyy down before anyone says anything,letters will make it so much worse, imo.I tried that and it blew up in my face and i was polite even in the email i sent my freak in laws .

I suggest let your hubby talk with them,visit but stay away.They aren't your parents and you don't owe them squat and grandparents only have rights if there is a divorce or death i'm pretty sure.So she can spew all she wants about that,not a D@^^ thing she can do about it.Yeah,i'd disengage completely.{{{Niles}}} i hope this calms soon hun.

"Hatred is like drinking poison and hoping someone else will die".

Let MIL swallow her own poison.
END QUOTE- but signature about hatred..hmm, I should maybe think of taking that one?

Just putting the thread in that was the concern...

Maybe I SHOULD NOT write that letter!

shotspine

06-09-2007, 10:34 PM

Dearest Krashleen.....
I've wanted so badly to respond to this thread but have been stuggling with pneumonia and just haven't the energy to put into what all I want to say. I started a post and lost it which didn't help any.

I just had to say, at least..........PLEASE LISTEN TO ALL THE GOOD ADVICE YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN HERE!!! Everything you have be raised to believe in......won't work with your DIL. You will NEVER win so you must learn to think differently when it comes to her. I speak from much experience........sadly it's my OWN daughter. She (my daughter) sounds much like Mark's and ICU's wife. I will explain all as soon as I have the energy and thought process to write so it makes some sort of sense. In the meantime, I just wanted to be one more voice that tells you to LEAVE IT ALONE. Just go on as though nothing has happened. Don't bring up ANYTHING that remotely resembles an affront to her...to anyone, including your son.

As much as I hate to say this....and it sounds like I'm not alone......you have to find a whole new way of coping if you want to keep peace. Come here and vent, cry, scream and yell as it looks like you have others besides myself that will relate well. Please learn from those of us that have been there so you don't have to go thru all the years we have to learn the most effective way to deal with a person like your DIL.

My heart hurts deeply for you! I have 4 grandkids that hardly know me because of these same personality traits. I have hurt every day for many years.....the oldest GC is 21 now. I LOVE my daughter with everything I have in me but learning how to deal with her has taken a lifetime.......bottom line really is simple.........SHE IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!

I'm so sorry I can't explain more now. I will be back asap. You are getting great advise. LISTEN CAREFULLY!!!

((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))

krashleen

06-09-2007, 11:01 PM

Oh sweetie..please don't let this exacerbate your pain. Its done enough to mine. Trust me on this.

I understand your health. Get better soon!

Weird. I kind of knew I had to find a different way of coping. My brain is wired differently than hers and I have never in all my years encountered someone like this before.

I have to say I am wrong, and sorry if I want to see my grandkids, and if its not this event, it will be another. This I know is true.

Be good to yourself. Please rest up. I understand.

(((hugs back)))

shotspine

06-09-2007, 11:45 PM

Thanks so much for your understanding. I really want to be more involved in this thread......if for no other reason than to do some major venting myself. Maybe between all of us, we can learn some new tricks?! I'll be back with more of my story.

I should also edit out ONLY in my last post......I guess there really is no ONLY to anything.

Hang in there.....you have lots of support on your side. I wish I had somewhere to vent and get support all these years. Along with all the other shared attributes (?) , my daughter is a master manipulator. Just for the record....she was finally diagnosed as BiPolar about 12? years ago. She is mostly manic and races thru life as though tomorrow will never come. She refuses meds as it makes her too slow.....as in..... normal. She is 40 yrs old and just moved in with what is probably going to be husband number 4. They NEVER leave her, she leaves them. I hate to make her sound so awful......she really has an incredible warm, loving side to her also.......that's what makes it so damn hard.

As for her brain wiring.........nothing like mine or anyone in my family. I had never experienced anyone like her before either. Her father was very manipulative and abusive.......all I can figure out is that it is truly genetic. We divorced when she was just a baby and he was never in her life so it wasn't a "learned" behavior.

Be Kind to You and trust yourself to know your heart is in the right place but don't expect her to do the same.

My heart is with all of those dealing with this kind of emotional pain. It is debilitating at times.

((((((((((((((((More hugs))))))))))))

krashleen

06-10-2007, 03:25 AM

The more I think about this, the more I realize that this is something I have to live with, deal with and perhaps I certainly don't want to mis-step...like step in to!

Her Dad is OCD. He has a rare disorder and her parents weren't honest with her about his possibly dying of this when she was in HS. I spoke with her when they were first engaged and I asked her what exactly was wrong and she said she didn't know. I said from my perspective, if she felt comfortable, she should ask him what his condition is. Evidently it causes him pain.

It is a different family thats for sure. There is lots swept under the rug. Evidently there is a pedophile as a grandfather, which was just told told to us recently...before we became the outlaws. I was shocked and didn't know what to say and where to go with that information. She moved on and I didn't persue it as we were on shaky ground at that point. But strange she shared that with us.

Whereas with us, well what you see if what you get. We pretty much are what we are. I do kind of hide my chronic pain issues by not making appearances when its something I cannot do, but people know that about me, and seem to forgive me. I have a loving spouse, and wonderful friends that care about me. I have only problems with this DIL and son at times.
I spoke with others and the common denominator in this and other issues is always, you guessed it....her.
So, while I still am going to continue to think, ponder, self-examine, I realize what I cannot change and give this some time. They will come around again. And it may take some time, but perhaps time is the answer.

I don't like to wait, I like things my way too, but this is pretty important and I will sacrifice a part of me if I give in and allow myself to be stepped on...

BrokenBladder

06-10-2007, 11:47 AM

Krashleen~~~
I'm truly sorry for the way you've been treated by your DIL. Time does seem to make things better so maybe that's the correct solution in this case. She's carrying your grandchild and I know you want to be a big part of the baby's life. It's so sad when families are at odds with one another, but this day in age it seems to be par for the course.
Hang in there things are bound to get better. :)

shotspine

06-10-2007, 06:07 PM

Hi Krashleen....
I hope you are feeling a little less stressed today. Just a thought.......is there any way you can find out what she was being treated for with meds and counseling? Has she been diagnosed with anything? What meds was she on? If you can get these answers then you can start doing some research on whatever she has. If she has a mental disability, then you would help yourself immensely by learning about it so you can better understand why she is the way she is.

About 3 years ago I went over to the bipolar forum and started asking questions. I didn't always like what I heard but it helped me a great deal. Before that I had done a lot of reading but nothing really connected until I started talking to the ones dealing with the disability. Obviously there are no clear cut answers to any person or disability, but it's a place to start. I then went to counseling on my own, for myself, to learn how to keep my own self together while succumbing to her whims.

Until 4 years ago, we lived 2500 miles apart since her first child was born. Other than visits that were at least annual, a few bi-annual....we communicated only by phone. During good times, we talked daily and I was filled in on every aspect of hers and grandkids lives. When she got mad at me, she would cut me off for months. I didn't really have to do anything to make her mad, in my mind anyway.

Once she was diagnosed, I can't say things got better right away but it was a beginning to understanding her. It will always be the "egg shell walk" but at least I know why. She is much more open with me now and sometimes I just can't believe what is coming out of her mouth but I know better than to question it. I listen, she talks......we get along great that way!!! I get to share in their lives as long as I word my feelings VERY carefully. Like Suede said....you do what you have to if you want to see your grandkids even if you don't feel right about it. It is a very fine line you will walk. Your son knows that too and has obviously found it to be worthwhile as she gives him something he wants enough to compromise and balance the scales on her side. Most likely he will not share his problems with you though.

NOTE: I am only speaking from MY experience. You may find I'm way off base for what works for you. Mark has made very good points but his way would never work for me to keep my daughter (thus my grandkids) in my life. I spent so many years blaming myself for whatever I did so wrong. I learned to stop the 'blame game' of myself.

You will work this all out. Time is your friend!! Learn patience, as you will need every ounce you can muster up.

My thoughts and prayers are with you always!!

Hugs!!! ss

krashleen

06-10-2007, 08:08 PM

No I don't know and I don't know if I will ever find out. I do know her Dad is OCD...and has CP.
That said, she stopped counseling of her own accord due to financial issues, not pregnancy.

I thought at first it was depression. I was told never ever to bring up the word 'abortion' and thats why. Then because of Catholism, I thought it was a pro-life stance.
All this is strange, as she seems to see the forest, but not the trees-trees being the immediate life she leads and application of the theology she vehemently believes. But preaches all of it and judges people on.

I don't know. I believe in my heart of heart that it is bi-polar, just because of the behavior aspects of it. Perhaps just reading over at the bi-polar forum I can get a grip on their reality and see if that in fact is hers.

I already know that I will have to walk on egg shells and watch every word out of my mouth. That words that people say in jest cannot be said to her. Things are distorted in her mind and twisted and turned and used against them.

I am very sad today. I am laying low. I don't understand her behavior but know that if it isn't this incident I will sin again in her book. But it doesn't change how painful physically I feel today. The stress is incredible for me today.

Thanks for listening. And thanks for listening to me vent and holler about it.