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RathyKay
10-03-2006, 01:55 AM
Well, I started to post this on BT2 last night, and then found out that OBT was coming back. So, I've debated where I should post this and decided here. I may yet go back and post on BT2.

For those of you who are curious, I just wanted to share our DAN! doctor experience. DAN! is Defeat Autism Now! While Tom is not technically autistic, he does have some autistic characteristics and has responded positively to the “autistic diet” – casein-free and gluten-free. Our DAN! doctor recommended we read “Children with Starving Brains” by Jacquelyn McCandless. The book describes the type of treatment he does. While our library didn’t have it, they borrowed it from another local library (and I decided to buy it after reading it).

For starters, our DAN! doctor began his career as a pediatrician. Some DAN! practitioners are nutritionists, nurses, and I don’t know what else. Mr. Kay wanted an MD, and I liked the idea of a former pediatrician. We were sent a 7 (?) page questionnaire to fill out before our appointment with request for copies of vaccinations, latest EEG and MRI reports, any genetic test results and any other relevant information. The detailed questionnaire covered my pregnancy (which was normal), as well as how many times he’s been on antibiotics and how old he was the first time he had them (less than a week), poop questions (constipated? yes diarrhea? rarely consistency? how often?), drugs he’s been on, drugs he’s currently on (none! Yay!.... and yes, I put “Yay!” on the form), supplements past and current, communication level (non-verbal or one word or two words, etc. Tom does speak in sentences, if you didn’t know. But, he talks like 3-to-4 year old, not an almost 6 year old.) and I don’t remember what else. I decided the format didn’t get across Tom’s story (history) very well, so I typed up a page detailing brain damage from severe hypoglycemia, epilepsy and the dairy connection, to where we are now.

At the end of the questionnaire was space for a prioritized list of 5 items of what I hope to accomplish. Really kind of a hard question. I can’t remember if I actually put “a normal kid” or not. But, constipation has ALWAYS been an issue (never bad enough for prescriptive help, but he has that distended stomach) and I’d like it “fixed.” I’ve wondered about yeast overgrowth (and if it’s related to his constipation), if he has any heavy metal excretion problems (they talk about that sometimes with autistic kids), what other food sensitivities he has (so we can avoid seizures). And boosting his immune system so that he doesn’t catch EVERY cold (and risk having a febrile seizure or getting another ear infection with antibiotics and yeast issues and it lasting forever).

We had a two hour appt and the time flew. I brought all of our current vitamin supplements (5 plastic bottles and 1 glass jar. Tom managed to build a tower with all 5 plastic bottles while we were there. His coordination has gotten much better since going GF.) The doctor had obviously read through our application and had two pages of things he wanted us to do. Mostly supplements and recommended levels of vitamins / minerals. I feel much better increasing some of these vitamins with a professional’s input than this study / mull it over / think some more approach I’ve been doing. He also offers the supplements at a discount (I checked online), as he wants parents to put their kids on them.

A lot of what we talked about I was familiar with (made me feel good). He told me I’ve been doing a good job, and was pleased with the food / seizure connections I’ve made. (It was nice to hear it from a professional.) We’re going to do what we can to get Tom’s digestive track back to “normal” from all the antibiotics and probable yeast overgrowth. After his blood draw this week, we’ll start him on digestive enzymes and increase his acidopholus as well as increasing vitamins and minerals. He mentioned that yeast can inflame the gut (which I had read), and it can also inflame the brain (which I hadn’t). He told me to quit cooking with Teflon (which I was pretty sure I should…. just hadn’t gotten around to throwing my pans away, but now they’re gone). And then he said to get rid of my aluminum pans! That caught me off guard. All my good bakeware is aluminum. He recommends cast iron and stainless steel and if you have the money… Le Creuset. I’ve been using cupcake liners in my aluminum muffin pans for now. Anyone have an opinion on stainless steel versus stoneware versus pyrex for baking breads and cakes and cupcakes?

He gave me a list of produce and pesticide content. He recommended buying organic for the top 12 or so high-pesticide produce and non-organic for the bottom 12 or so low-pesticide produce. (Peaches beat out strawberries for worst pesticide content. Corn has the least.) The ones in the middle… depend on the price difference. He also said NO FISH – mercury issue. (But, he wants Tom taking fish oil, recommending Nordic Naturals. I actually started him on it right before the appointment.)

Moving on, he said not to buy flame-retardant pajamas. When they get wet, some of the retardant can be ingested / inhaled (think slobber or an accident at night). He also said they do make “organic” mattresses (non-flame retardant), but you need a prescription to buy one. He’s happy to write one. Tom is currently in a toddler bed and I’ve been meaning to buy a twin-size mattress for the floor for him. I need to look into this more.

I think that was all we discussed. We left with a shopping bag of test kits, and instructions on what to do with them. There was a hair analysis kit for heavy metal toxins. Two urinalysis tests and lots of blood tests and even a stool test. I took Tom to Stanford for the blood draw and they sent away the urinalysis tests (as well as the blood). I shipped the stool sample via DHL (included in the kit). They’re testing for food sensitivities (delayed reaction IgG as opposed to “true allergy” IgE reactions… IgG reaction being a seizure or migraine or diarrhea or… and IgE being the peanut “I can’t breathe, get me to a hospital” allergy), malabsorption, vitamin/mineral levels, whether his immune system is actively fighting any viruses, and I forget whatelse. Tom is too small, so we have to go back this week for another blood draw. (He did very well with the last one, but this time he’ll know what’s going on beforehand.)

We go back in November for our test results (I know the food sensitivities test takes 5 – 6 weeks) and new recommendations based on those results. Depending on the hair analysis results, for instance, we may try chelation in the future. Vitamin / mineral recommendations may increase again. And we may have new foods to avoid. And for those of you who know about the SCD diet, he said he doesn’t recommend it unless the child’s progress seems to plateau… more of a last resort type intervention. I told him I wondered about trying it. He said to keep it in the back of my mind. And anti-virals if results warrant it

If you’re curious, we’re paying for this (doctor visit and tests) out of pocket and will submit to our insurance afterwards.

Wow! Is this long! If you made it this far… I guess I’m thinking that all of this is kind of related: food sensitivities, distended stomach, constipation, weakened immune system and hopefully (is that the right word?) his brain development (vision, cognition, balance, self-awareness). The removal of dairy and gluten definitely helped his awareness and development and I want more!

Denae
10-03-2006, 10:05 AM
WOW

How awesome! I am almost afraid to ask how much you had to pay out of pocket but I am dying to know... Do they file any insurance at all?

Rileys positive IgG has been nagging at the back of my mind for a while, esp. with the seizure increases and changes over the last little bit. It all makes me really wonder how much of a connection there is for her too.

When we started Gluten Free we also went organic. I feel like half of my paycheck goes to groceries and I cringe when I see the kids waste anything.

All of what you said makes me want to make an appointment.

I wish I had more time to post, but Riley and I are on our way out the door, she came to work withme this AM and is getting restless...

More questions from me later!!!

Tracy Sheppard
10-03-2006, 10:44 AM
How awesome! Sounds great. I have a friend who would be most interested in your post.
How wonderful
Tracy

lilac7700
10-03-2006, 10:54 AM
Was this Dr. Hicks??? Sounds EXACTLY like a lecture of his I sat in on a few weeks back. He brought up EVERYTHING that you have put in your post, from the heavy metals to the pans!!

RathyKay
10-03-2006, 01:54 PM
Oooo, my first "multi-quote" post. If anyone is curious, just click on the "multi-quote" icon (quotation mark with the plus sign +"). It will turn red. Click on the other posts, same button, and then click "Reply."

Was this Dr. Hicks??? Sounds EXACTLY like a lecture of his I sat in on a few weeks back.
No, Dr. Traver out here in the Bay Area. I assume Dr. Hicks also follows the DAN! protocol, which would explain all of the similarities.

How awesome! I am almost afraid to ask how much you had to pay out of pocket but I am dying to know... Do they file any insurance at all?
I'm kind of under the impression that very few of these DAN! doctors take insurance. I could be wrong. This doctor works in a private office with (I think) his wife as the receptionist. That's it. Taking insurance would bump up the price of his practice considerably, so he doesn't. The test kits we came home with, I wrote checks for. The book, and doctor, explained that if the test company has to submit a claim to the insurance company, they automatically increase the price of the test. Insurance only pays so much, so you're not saving anything. So, we're waiting for this last test, and then we'll submit our claim to insurance and see how it goes.

Rileys positive IgG has been nagging at the back of my mind for a while, esp. with the seizure increases and changes over the last little bit. It all makes me really wonder how much of a connection there is for her too.
What all was Riley IgG tested for? They're testing Tom for... 90? 96? or 100? different foods. Although, there were several dairy items and gluten items. Hopefully, we've been off of them long enough and haven't slipped so that the results will be negative. It's the other foods I'm interested in: green beans, tomatoes, apples, etc. I have a friend (adult) who had herself tested through York Labs. She was amazed at the foods she thought were safe, that she does indeed react to. I think it was the asparagus, where she didn't react until 24 hours later... anyway, she was quite glad she did it.

When we started Gluten Free we also went organic. I feel like half of my paycheck goes to groceries and I cringe when I see the kids waste anything.
Uhhhh, yeah. Our grocery bill has definitely increased. I've been trying to go to the farmer's market on Friday, and Whole Foods (Whole Paycheck) on Tuesdays to kind of spread my money around. I'm not sure that I really save anything, though. This looks pretty much like the list he printed out for me: http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/09/29/pesticide-levels-in-fruits-and-vegetables/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foodnews.org%2Ffulldataset.p hp&frame=true. Don't waste your money buying organic for the foods listed at the bottom.

All of what you said makes me want to make an appointment.
That's kind of why I wrote that long-winded post. So, if you're interested in something a little more alternative, but not completely out there, you'd know what our experience was. And, if you think it's a bunch of hooey, or you can't be bothered to make some life adjustments, save your money. If you are interested, I highly recommend the book ("Children with Starving Brains" by McCandless) to do a better job of explaining why some of these things are problems.

Oh, and Denae, I'll be sending you a PM in a bit.

Mom2Ava
10-03-2006, 09:20 PM
Great info, thanks.

Ava does not have autism, but I am told she is at risk due to her type of almost continuous activity.

I wonder if there is DAN doctor here in maine.

just laurie
10-03-2006, 09:24 PM
That sounds like more information than my brain could absorb during one appointment! Hope you find some answers which help.

Laurie

jcc
10-03-2006, 10:19 PM
Was this Dr. Hicks??? Sounds EXACTLY like a lecture of his I sat in on a few weeks back. He brought up EVERYTHING that you have put in your post, from the heavy metals to the pans!!

We saw Dr. Hicks, and it all sounded familiar to me, too. I think this is pretty standard DAN! protocol stuff. My daughter isn't autistic, either, but we saw Dr. Hicks because I knew he'd understand gluten sensitivity w/o celiac, and her increased urinary pyrrole test. And he did.

So, what did you think of Dr. Hicks? We only saw him a couple times. My daughter turned 18, and she didn't want to continue. Did he talk about vibrational medicine? That threw me a bit.

Cara

RathyKay
10-03-2006, 10:26 PM
Ava does not have autism, but I am told she is at risk due to her type of almost continuous activity.

I wonder if there is DAN doctor here in maine.
As I said, Tom doesn't have autism either. But, he's responding well to the diet, and I'd like to see how far we can get him, and this strikes me as a good way to go.

Look for a DAN! doctor here:
http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari-lists/danus.html

If you're out of the US:
http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari-lists/danforeign.html

NOTE from the website:
The following are practitioners who have requested to be listed as providing DAN!-based interventions for helping autistic patients. Most are physicians, others are licensed health-care professionals in medically related fields.

We do not at present have any means of certifying the competence nor quality of practice of any practitioner. We hope to be able to do so in the future.

And just to repeat, if you're interested, I highly recommend reading the book. If you think the book is a bunch of hooey, then you'll save lots of money by avoiding a DAN! doctor.

Denae
10-04-2006, 01:52 PM
What all was Riley IgG tested for?

That was just whatever they do with the gluten stuff, nothing else was tested, but no I wonder IF we should. I know she has had issues with dairy in the past. She doesn't really eat that much dairy except what is used to make other things. If she drinks milk it is one of those soy toddler formulas, I have tried to get her to drink something more "age appropriate" but she doesn't like it at all. Maybe we should follow you down this path too just to see what happens if anything.

That "if anything" has been the most disheartning with going gluten free, I never say any big changes, not really any long term small ones either. I think what I did see with her was more of a wishful thinking. Kind of like if you look at something long enough and wonder if it is moving; it starts to look like it is moving. I still haven't been able to do as Dr. Boyd wanted - We have the baseline, but things are so unstable right now and have been for a while that loading her with gluten to see if it makes a difference doesn't feel like the smart thing to do. So i guess even though I said I don't see anything, I am not willing to tempt fate. Last night Robert and I were talking about Rileys seizure control (or lack of) and what had been the point of the VNS and adding a second AED; Makes me wonder how much worse it could be with out those things.

Uhhhh, yeah. Our grocery bill has definitely increased. I've been trying to go to the farmer's market on Friday, and Whole Foods (Whole Paycheck) on Tuesdays to kind of spread my money around. I'm not sure that I really save anything, though. This looks pretty much like the list he printed out for me: http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20... hp&frame=true. Don't waste your money buying organic for the foods listed at the bottom.


I like that "Whole Paycheck" Thankfully a lot of the regular grocery store chains are really catching on to the organic movment. One of my biggest expenses has been meat, Lowes Foods now, and I think Harris Teeter has been carrying the meats that are free from unnecessary antibiotics and hormones. I saw an article not long ago very similar to that one, listed what you should get organic and where you could save. Eggs were listed as being something that didn't matter, but that is one that bothers me as much as the meats... Not reason except in my head it just feels like a risk too.

Another of my issues, probally the biggest I have is that I teeter back and fourth on stuff like this. One day I may be all for it and the next I am not sure sure it matters.

Mom2Ava
10-04-2006, 03:37 PM
Thanks. I looked last night. There are some DOs up here that are DAN docs. Will add them to my list of people to contact.
Several years ago I went to an autism conference. The DAN folks had a booth set up. I had tons of info ... I will have to look and see if I still have it.

Do you think you can PM me with more info as to what you are doing specifically?
Any seizure control?