How to maintain sanity w/alcoholics in family?

[Buttons2]

Hi all, this was a pretty active forum before the big crash,hopefully someone will bother to check here soon cause I'm getting stressed!

Have 2 alcoholics in my life that are both females in 40's. They have both hit bottom yet hasn't turned them around. One is my sister,one is my housemate's daughter. The similarities are like reading the same story twice.

Both live away from here for which I'm grateful. It's the phone calls that are driving me to despair! I try very hard to avoid talking with either of them when I know they are drunk. Lately this is a window that keeps getting more narrow,they drink in the morning,get drunk & call @ weird hours,etc. We don't have caller I.D. so if unlucky enough to answer & soon realize it will be a drunken rant about their situations.......I make excuses to get off the phone ASAP.

What bothers me is that after all these years I can STILL be fooled! I think it's OK to have a conversation (they are actually sober),then wham! Something is said that a) I doubt is the truth,b) is suddenly a sob story & I'm not rude enough to interrupt/end, c) leaves me feeling guilty cause I don't have the patience hear them out.

Guess I just need to vent. I love both these women in my life, I pray for them,I let them know I care/understand & am here for them. But a phone call can ruin my day totally. I've tried really hard to come to terms with all the toxic people in my life,these two are not people I can just shut out @ this point. I ache for them,wish nothing more than for them to realize their problem is the alcohol & to stop drinking! Seems unlikely it will ever happen for either of them. I realize there is always HOPE.

When do you give up? Or do you ever? It's draining on ME. And trying to figure out what's a lie/fantasy is driving me bonkers!

Feel like I'm walking on eggshells with both situations,always waiting for the worse to happen. Thinking with my sister the worse has happened already (nearly killed & in coma for 2 weeks),permanent brain damage. Housemate's daughter ended up living under bridge & begging. But NO, that didn't do it,perhaps nothing will until dead! If/when that happens I could never erase the quilt if I had not been supportive!

Do I just cut them off? Hold the phone away so I don't even hear the garbage they spout out? Sometimes I feel like a hypocrite telling them I love them when I have to wonder if it's possible to love people so self-centered & destructive? I feel so sorry for both of them. Yet there are times when I just want to scream......sober up or don't bother calling ever again! And of course it just happens that both seem to call on the same day,they've never met each other & never will, just happen to both be a part of my life.

Thanks for reading my vent,sure alot of you know exactly how I feel,perhaps someone out there has some wisdom to share cause right now I seem to be in a total disgust mode with both of them!

Buttons

[Laura]

Buttons,
Yes, I surely can relate. I have three alcoholic/addicts sisters, all three are now clean but one is crazier now than ever. I also have an ex-husband who is a "dry-drunk", the father of my two daughters. About a month ago I was in a similar situation with my sister and my ex. I was going nuts. I can share what I was told by some wise friends.

I can't control their behavior. I certainly should know that by now. The only thing I can do is to control my own behavior, to keep my side of the street clean. I need to merely do the next right thing. Sometimes that means taking care of myself, replenishing my resources so that I will be ready for the next "situation". It doesn't mean taking care of them, or trying to change them. That is their job, and their higher Power's. If I don't take care of me, nobody else will, and I sure won't be any good to anybody else. So, I just let the situation go. Take a hot bath, or meditate, or a long walk, or whatever helps for you to relax.

Remember that these women have made, and still are making the choices in their lives. Detachment has been a skill that I have learned that has come to be very useful. I can listen and empathize without taking their problems on as my own, because they aren't MY problems. Obsessing and worrying about the future won't change the outcome or better their situation, it will only make ME crazy. I don't know if you believe in a Higher Power, but I find it helpful to remember that just as my HP takes care of me, theirs will take care of them. God has a plan, and although I might not understand it, it is a better plan than mine. If you find yourself in the midst of a pity-party conversation, I find saying that somebody is at the door is a great way to end a conversation. And remember that most times people don't want or expect you to solve their problems, they only want somebody to listen. You can't get them to stop drinking, only they can do that. You can have hope, but it is out of your hands. I also know that if I find myself feeling resentful towards them, I need to look at my part. Am I maintaining healthy boundaries? Do I have realistic expectations? Then I need to forgive myself and try to do better next time.

I remember you from before and I remember that both of these women are very sick. Some have deeper bottoms than others. I am sure you've heard......... jails, institutions, and death. But whatever happens, you want to be able to look back and feel good about your behavior. And I surely know how hard that can be, trust me on that one. Good luck, dear.

Hugs,
Laura

[Buttons2]

Thanks for the quick reply Laura, I sometimes forget this forum is even here! I recall your story also & am glad you are managing so much better these days. Those were wise words & I'll keep them in mind. Life does go on right? One other thing they have in common: never have believed in a higher power, for them I guess it's just a fear they have of letting go? not sure, but it's something we never discuss. Come to think of it,there's really not many rational discussions with either of them! Take care,Buttons

[JAVISI]

Buttons and Laura,
I remember you both from your postings before the crash. Sorry I have been so sporatic with my postings. I spent a week in the hospital. My body was rejecting the feeding tube in my stomach. So I got a infection. Now I have a tube that runs down my nose and into my stomach:eek: . It hurts and I just haven't felt well for awhile.

As you know I did get a divorce. 2 weeks after I left he moved in with another woman. I am happy because he leaves me alone! He started drinking right after I left, no suprise, I susspected that he was drinking before I left. I really don't care what he does with his life but I do care how he influences our children.

My son is in jail for a DUI, flight to avouid arrest and assault on an officer. He was going to get bailed out if the reduction came down to 50,000 but it didn't. It was a little bitter sweet. When he gets out he plans on moving in with me and my boyfriend. Who I must say is a wonderful man. A non drinker and so loving and caring! I sooo happy, I have him. Back to my son. My ex told him if he got out he would take him to the bars drinking on his birthday. It was Thursday.

Initially he had decided he wasn't going to drink anymore. I am so angry with my ex. Why would you encourage him to drink??? I told my son that when he moved in here their would be no drinking here. He needs to set goals, I have a job lined up for him and he can have his daughter over here when ever he wants. She misses him so badly, she sobs for him at night:mad: . But he did this and will have to suffer the consequenses. Even though it hurts me, I now that he deserves it.

I moved in with my boyfriend and his 13 year old son. Things are going great. The stress from my mom's drinking was driving me crazy. It was physically making me sick. I am much more happier out her on the farm. No more constant fighting and arguing.

Enough for now. Good to talk to you both!

[Buttons2]

Javisi,it's so good that your own life is improving! You deserve some smooth roads ahead after all you have been through.

You wonder why your ex would take your son out drinking? Simple,he wants to see YOU hurt & frustrated & wants to maintain CONTROL over your son. He knows full well what your son's weakness is & he wants to use it. Alcoholics tend to enjoy messing up anyone's life they possibly can.

Your son has very serious charges against him, I'm gonna assume he will be on probation of some kind? Also required to pass urine tests? This is his chance to walk away from the past & have a new start......let's all say a prayer that he makes it!

Very glad to hear your boyfriend isn't a drinker,and I know you don't drink either. The best thing for your son is to have a clean environment,no drugs or alcohol. He might just have to stay away from his father,hopefully he will realize of his own accord that his dad isn't someone with his best interests at heart.

Alcoholics always want someone to drink with them if possible. Misery loves company & all that. They have no use for sober people & will do everything in their power to get someone to "just have one drink".

Javisi, are you saying your son got this DUI after going out with your ex for a birthday celebration? If so, what happened that night to your ex? And if this was the situation,does the judge know this? Is there any chance the judge will force them to remain apart? Is your son attending AA meetings while in jail?

About me for a minute,my mother called the other day & said something so far off base I wanted to scream @ her & hang up! She's always been in denial of my brother's role in his drinking. Always has blamed my sister-in-law! Then she decided it's all my dad's fault, claimed he encourages my brother to drink! This is part of her dementia but it made me see red. My dad is an alcoholic, he's been sober over 50 yrs!I'm just so fed up with everyone putting the blame on someone else & being in denial! I'm nearing the point of telling all my family I never want to speak to them again! So sick of all the lies & coverups. And of course all this festers inside me & makes me more sick than I need to be.

Well, I just needed to vent a bit. Glad you guys are here to "listen". I was planning to visit my folks next month,now not so sure. I know my brother lost his job,suspect he also spent time in jail & lost his license (along with CDL license),and of course my folks bailed him out & who knows what else? I'm sick of this. He can do no wrong in their eyes.

Later,Buttons

[JAVISI]

Buttons,
Thank you for your response. I never really thought about my ex just wanting to control. It just saddens me that he can not see what a terrible thing he is doing:mad: . My son did not get out on bail so he was in jail on his birthday. I was saddened but thankful. At least he was safe, clean and sober. For my ex, control was everything. I guess like most alcoholics. I am not making any excuses but living in an alcoholic home and growing up in a bar manipulation is always invoved in the drinking and alcoholism. I guess any addiction.

No I don't drink, I never really have I was always the designated driver and have seen it destroy too many lives. Including mine but I am slowly getting it back. I am finally happy. I hated living with my parents although I love my mom and dad I hate the alcoholism my mom is deep in. In my heart I know she will die drinking. But I pray each night that she quits. It is so hard to sit back and watch her slowly kill herself and make life miserable for our whole family. I talk to her in the mornings and early afternons before she is drunk. I really can't handle all of her blaming too! Their is no one to blame but her. I have finally resolved myself to not take the blame or feel the blame any more.

One person from AA came to visit my son but no one will go into the jail and conduct AA meetings. I really don't understand they go to every jail and prison around here but won't come to this one. Personally I don't think that they want people to get help. They make a lot of money off of drug and alcohol offenses.

Keep strong and thank you for being such a good friend!!!:D

[Buttons2]

Javisi, well I agree it's good your son was in jail on his birthday....was this his 21st by any chance? Big drinking tradition is to get totally smashed on that particular day!

In my opinion (from my own experience),not only do alcoholics that drink need to control,but also the non-drinking ones. It's taken me many,many years to realize this about my own father! He's nearly 83yr old now & I wish I had recognized his behavior for what it was a LONG time ago.I grew up without knowing he was an alcoholic,how's that for weird? He admitted it in the past few years!

Going back to your situation, if I remember correctly this son (or perhaps another one?), had gotten involved with drugs? Meth? And I do recall the agony your mother has created for you. God sent you a man that doesn't drink,I really believe that. With him you will have the help you'll need for the road ahead. I see you as a very loving mother & my fear for you is maintaining "tough love" with this son when he gets out of jail. You have been very supportive, you've arranged for him to have a place to live & even have a job when he gets out.....a new beginning. This is very good & will give him the opportunity he needs to stay sober. It won't be easy. For any of you. Rules can be set down,but please keep in mind HE is the only one that can control his own behavior.

Javisi, I'm not sure when your son will be released,but in the meantime can you contact an AA in your area & ask that someone be willing to visit him & perhaps become his sponsor? Maybe someone his own age he can relate to? He needs all the support he can possibly get......someone besides yourself.

As for the jail/justice system, I agree they aren't too willing to help. Most jails are very overcrowded & they can only do so much. This is where the problems often compound,they are in there sharing their stories & there's little or no focus on what happens when they return to the outside world. You might consider what I mentioned earlier about a no-contact order with his father & having a regular urine test. You have every right to have a private conversation with the judge in his case. I'm saying this because of his young age, I think restrictions might help him @ this point. He's NOT gonna be strong enough to deny his father when he shoves a beer in his face for instance!

It's very sad about your mother, I also feel my sister will drink herself to death & there's nothing I can do to stop her. I don't really have much feeling for my brother,he's 11 yrs younger & I feel as though I've never really even known him. He's a phoney, he's a whiner & all he's ever done is cause grief or embarrassment to me & the family.

And I understand exactly about trying to have phone conversations in the morning.....doesn't work too well for me these days though!

Sorry you ended up back in the hospital & hope you continue to improve,also it was nice of them to take your son's phone call, nice to know there's still some compassion in this world eh?

Take care,Buttons

[JAVISI]

Buttons, you are such a wonderful friend and I appriciate you sooo much! I hope that you know that! This is my oldest son, he never really gave me much trouble he is 23 now. My youngest is 18, he was the one on meth. he seems to be doing okay. He is working and living with his girl friend but I still worry I don't hear ffrom him as often? They just had on the news that an inmate beat up a guard, and he had to go to the hospital. No wonder no one from AA wants to actually go into the jail! Their are so many problems there and things just seem to be getting worse! I hate that place! I was in tears when I left last Thursday! My daughter came with me. She took my car while I was talking to my son. When she came back she told me she was back and someone from behind the desk area said in a rude voice "Sit down!". I AM SICK OF THAT PLACES RUDENESS AND LACK OF CONTROL! I am sorry that I have not been on line for several days. My computer has not let me On? I think that it has somthing to do with all of the storms and the fact this computer is junk! I can only post on the quick reply area. Otherwise it says, page can nhot be displayed. I will admit it is very frustrating!
Talk to you soon! Love ya, Laurie
I think we may order a new computer on Monday, Yaaaa!

[Buttons2]

I realize Javisi is very ill right now,but perhaps she can read this anyway.

I'm not really in a rant mode right now. More a feeling of loss & sadness.

I made an effort to contact my sister a few months ago after I knew she had gotten fired from her job. She has caller ID so I'm guessing that's why she didn't answer the phone,nor did she call me back. What she did was call my oldest son & told him I had gotten her fired! Now this made me see RED. When I flew back East to see her after she was released from the hospital I met her boss,Brandy. Well over the past 5 years Brandy & I have kept in touch by email. Brandy is disabled & my sister was her "helper". Brandy is no fool,she also has an alcoholic sister. Anyway I certainly had nothing to do with my sis getting fired......the irony here is that I was responsible for Brandy hiring her back!(give her ONE more chance & all that).

Now I'm preparing to finally visit my folks next week. My brother still isn't working,my mother is still in denial. And both my parents believe the wild story about how my sister QUIT her job. I've kept mum all this time.I call my parents every week. I never bring up my sister's name,neither do they. I'm a nervous wreck over this visit! Why? Cause I know this is gonna come up in a conversation! I keep going through scenerio's in my mind. Should I let the folks know sis is in an abusive relationship? That she got fired for being drunk on the job? Let them I know I'm fed up?

I have a great deal of anger inside me. I took my sis in when she was only 14 yrs old. She was on heroin & working to support her habit as a prostitute! Actually I've been her "mother" her entire life. Always there for her no matter what. Our own mother has done zilch over the years.Well I should say she's managed to stick her head in the sand,but that's about all.

One scenerio I play out is this: when her name is mentioned I can say that I refuse to discuss her. She's out of my life for my own sake. Nothing I can do & I don't want to hear anymore of her lies. Calling my son was the last straw for me.

Another scenerio is this: OK,let's get the truth out now. Stop the denial. Stop the enabling. Face the reality. Enough already. If you face the FACTS you gotta realize sis has burned all her bridges. Her children want nothing to do with her,her boyfriend beats her up,she's been in & out of detox,jail,psyche wards,etc for many years. She's a mess & it's time you face up to this.And she's NOT my responsibility!

Now I'm writing this out so I can read it again just before the trip. I need to be strong and firm.

And I have an update on my housemate's daughter also but I'll wait to post that later.

Hoping for some replies here......Buttons

[mama sue]

Buttons~
Hi dear one, I am so sorry for what you are going through!!! I liked the 2nd scenario. Get it out in the open and discuss what is REALLY going on. I wished I had not spent so many years covering up a very BIG problem. Good luck to you dear, I will keep you in my prayers.

[houghchrst]

HI guys, I dont' think I have posted here often even though I do have family that are alcoholics. Mom, functioning, brother not so functioning. A lot has happened lately that seriously involves their drinking but I am not here for me.

Buttons I just wanted to say that I too think that you should state your case in a no nonsense manner. Ask them not to interrupt, tell them you don't really expect any feedback and then tell them what is going on. If you get feedback it may not be what you want to hear and may start some family drama but it may also open them up to a dialogue. Maybe they suspect but don't want to get involved. Things were done differently when they were younger. Often swept under the carpet so to speak. Are you wanting them to know because you are hoping they will help, are you looking for support? Besides being in denial how are they enabling? I would get caller ID and take no more calls from you sister or the alcoholic daughter. Send cards, write letters. Explain why you need to distance yourself. Continue to do this no matter the response you get because hopefully there will come a day when they will see the light and they will remember that you were there through it all.

I use to be one of them.

[Laura]

Buttons,
Before you say anything, I think you need to be clear with yourself about what your motivations are. Are you trying to enlist the help of your family for your sister and daughter, as in stopping enabling? Do you want them to support your position? Are you trying to clear your conscience for covering for them? Are you angry at them for not accepting your help, being appreciative, and wanting to retaliate? The reason I say this is because how the message is received can depend largely on where the message is coming from. Our nonverbal cues are far more powerful than any words that we use, and a message delivered from a place of detachment and compassion will be more likely to be well received than a message delivered from a place of disgust and resentment. I wasn't so sure from your post that you are not in that second place, but it is difficult to tell from the written word.

In any case, you will have to let go of the outcome. If they have been in denial this long, they may well stay there. Don't be surprised if you tell them and they respond with anger. I actually was in your position about 20 years ago. I was the messenger of the bad news and was labeled a troublemaker by my parents. A sister, who knew I was right, had told them that I thought my other sister was an addict (she had asked my opinion, then immediately called my parents), but refused to admit her agreement. Our families have crazy dynamics going on. Honestly, I would be prepared for any reaction, I have found the only thing I can predict is unpredictability.

If it were me, I would hit at least one Alanon meeting and ask your question. You will most likely get plenty of feedback from people who have been there, done that. There is nothing like the voice of experience to draw upon and what do you have to lose except an hour of your time? I bet you will feel better about your decision in the end, whatever you decide.

[Buttons2]

Thanks for the replies. Have given me food for thought. I now have a crisis going on of my own (dog had biopsy yesterday). I do have a great deal of resentment & anger......I need to look inward,then let it go.

I'll get back here later. Not much time right now. I do appreciate the input!

Buttons

[Laura]

Buttons,
So, how did the visit with the family go? What did you finally decide to do? And how did your puppy's biopsy turn out? Inquiring minds want to know.

Hugs,
Laura