Virginia Tech

[agate]

With apologies to Matthew's Mom because I apparently caused her thread to be locked, here is another thread for all who want to express their condolences to the bereaved families and friends of the shooting victims at Virginia Tech.

[Erin]

my posts might have had something to do with it getting locked too...

[Matthew's Mom]

thanks agate:)

I watched most of the ceremony at the school yesterday, alot of the students faces were "blank" must be shock etc:(

Then heard the stories and saw the faces of some of the victims. One was a college professor who had survived the holocaust. He stood shielding the door allowing several students to jump out the window saving thier lives, then he was shot and killed, the two remaining students were shot and survived. Many stories of true heroism.

Again prayers to all involved.

Pam

[Grassman]

We cunucks are like americans but without the guns.

You got air marshalls....time for dorm mazrshalls.....ya think?

[Grassman]

Why no cam pus police?*hit where we send our children....get it together school personal.

I love shooting guns.

Why whenn I was 12 I pulled a hunting rifle on my stepfathr and said "hit my mothherr again I'll kill you."

He was drunk I was 12...lad my mo put that together.

Waqs a "Sniper" class marksman in the canadian army.


y kiid named his kid after me....that was the right thing to do.

Heree in my comfort zone I taught Morgon to tget his &hit togvether.

[Abby2006]

http://img228.**********.us/img228/2971/redrose2wj3.gif

[karlee]

If my post caused the thread to be locked, I apologize.

The actions and the sadness is just incomprehensible by most of us.

May the VT students, staff and parents find the strength to continue with their lives while holding their dear friends and children's memories close to their hearts.

[SalpalSally]

:( :( :( ..So so sad.

[Mariel]

On the Huffington Post there is a thread started by Arianna concerning the "drugs" the shooter may have been on. Many intelligent comments here about the possibilities that some folks can't metabolize anti-depressants and this might have affected the shooter. Also a comment about how living with parents who ran a drying cleaning establishment could have affected him--this reporting on a psychiatrist's statement. Cleaning fluid could have been hard for him to metabolize, and he become chronically poisoned, and it affected his mind....Anyway, these things are possible, I believe. The question was raised, who was monitoring his drug ingestion, if in fact he was ingesting drugs, and which drug/s was it? Someone commented that it probably would not be publicized due to the possibility of hurting business, but I expect the information may come out....probably.

[SalpalSally]

Very interesting, Mariel. I had thought about the drug thing, but not the cleaning fluid. Something sure had to be wrong somewhere for this to happen.

I wonder if they will do an autopsy of his brain, to try and see what made it go so out of control? We must find ways to nip this in the bud, before it happens again.

[Erin]

Very interesting, Mariel. I had thought about the drug thing, but not the cleaning fluid. Something sure had to be wrong somewhere for this to happen.

I wonder if they will do an autopsy of his brain, to try and see what made it go so out of control? We must find ways to nip this in the bud, before it happens again.

I dont think there's going to be enough of his brain left to autopsy. He apparently did a lot of damage to his head when he killed himself.

It would be interesting to find out if any of his anti-psychotic meds actually did more damage. Maybe if he was taking more than one drug, the drugs could have counteracted each other, or one drug could have interferred with another one.

Maybe he ate grapefruit with his meds? (grapefruit sometimes can make some drugs stronger, or can interfere with another drug)

All that is assuming that he was Rx-ed drugs and was actually taking them.

[stickman]

the whole problem with the dumb a** is that did the deed is the media now.,,, and us.
don't watch any of it. the little wart aint worth it. it leads to the copycat thing. burn his tapes. paint his body pink., stick a pickle in his..... well.,,, you know. just let the copycats know thier deeds will be seen in the same light. just the same wimpy wimpy wimpy.

to end the whole thing he should have used the last bullet he had with his name on it first.

[rdmc2]

the whole problem with the dumb a** is that did the deed is the media now.,,, and us.
don't watch any of it. the little wart aint worth it. it leads to the copycat thing. burn his tapes. paint his body pink., stick a pickle in his..... well.,,, you know. just let the copycats know thier deeds will be seen in the same light. just the same wimpy wimpy wimpy.

to end the whole thing he should have used the last bullet he had with his name on it first.

Stickman,

You're right about the copycats. I read an article this AM about all the "threats" and lockdowns at schools across the country since they aired his video on TV the other night.

I read in another article that had interviewed his relatives in Korea and that he was diagnosed early on with autism...that would explain his not talking to anyone, including his family, since he was young.

My kid's college has instituted a program now where the students sign up for text messages to their phone, from the college, in case of an Emergency. It's a good plan...how often do kid's check their emails. This way, in case of Emergency (could be any emergency, on campus, weather, school closing, classes cancelled)...but they will get a text message on their cell phone.

[elizabeth]

This whole event is so very tragic, and my heart goes out to the families of everyone involved.

I cannot imagine the shock to the families left to grieve and try to pick up the pieces; or to the survivors who must try to pick up their shattered lives and make sense of the truly senseless; or even to the family of the young man who felt such rage and futility that he struck out with such violence before turning it inward.

Truly, no one will ever be the same, but I am reminded again, that each and every day is a gift to be treasured. And that no person is insignificant or unworthy of my attention, consideration, and respect. Every kindness touches lives, and every slight injures. Things like this make me want to be the best person I can because I do not know where my influence stops; they remind me of my responsibility to the rest of humanity. It's a "Golden Rule" kind of thing in every dimension from start to end.


(Please note - and this is key - This is not to say that I feel in any way responsible for people's homicidal rages, but rather that I think there were some people who were very cruel - during his life - to the young man who did this, and that there were some people who were downright heroic in protecting others during the course of this tragedy. The whole of this event, and global events of larger magnitude as well, has me thinking very deeply about the effects of one's actions and inactions, etc. in a deeply philosophical as well as an applied sense. It has affected me very profoundly, not the least of which has been in causing a recurrence of my very wickedly hard to cure insomnia.)

My heart grieves.

[BJF]

i have been unable to log in or stay logged in for so many months........

i will show my age, i know there are a few others.

no how many acts of terrorism we have, i alway feel the most pain when it is students...because i taught for so long i think.

i can't read paper, i found out late in the day, kept watching. and saying WHY A GERMAN CLASS? because i taught french.

anyway, at least one on here is my age. during kent state, 1970, i was a teaching asst at an ivy league school. rah, rah, i went to big ten. the whole place shut down, total chaos. two of us were joined by others and backed by the U in setting up a hotline for parents to find their children. this was no world of email and cell phones. it was kept going a long time. i can't erase those images...or the faces of my own students....since VT.

then the next year i taught at rutgers, which was still all male, not to enter that fray at all. french again. all it was was a bomb scare a day, and who was put in charge of checking for bombs? THE TEACHERS. so there i am, first year "out" in charge of checking for bombs! i had a great group of guys, they did it for me....and out of the building we were. there was no teaching that year, 70-71. but the bond made between me and those students lasted for years, they would write, visit when i left and came back to New England, i remember them so well.

the VT brought all this back to me as nothing had in 30 years. i had no students either place injured, killed, anything. but in seeing what i saw on tv, i relived those past years and i keep doing it.

a German class and I taught French back then.

there are just no words. and i haven't thought of that past in years.


and the last time it said i was logged in and tried to post, it wouldn't.

months ago.


barbara

well, it worked! Zombie Slayer said my avatar, signature and all would be gone, true indeed.

member since 2002

[Abby2006]

Were Antidepressants An
Accomplice In The
VTech Massacre?
By Mike Adams
4-18-7


The Chicago Tribune reports that Cho Seung Hui, the Virginia Tech shooter who killed 32 fellow students in a shooting rampage, was taking antidepressant drugs. This is not the first time a school shooting rampage has been linked to antidepressants. The infamous Colombine High shootings took place almost exactly eight years ago, and the shooters in that rampage were also -- you guessed it -- taking antidepressant drugs. What is it about antidepressant drugs that provokes young men to pick up pistols, rifles and shotguns, then violently assault their classmates? Clearly, there's something wrong with the mind of anyone who engages in such violent acts. Could the drugs be "imbalancing" their minds, priming them for violence?

The answer is a very sobering, "Yes, they could be." As we reported in a previous NewsTarget article on Paxil:

Researchers from Cardiff University in Britain and the Cochrane Centre examined data on Paxil -- or its generic form, paroxetine -- from GlaxoSmithKline, legal cases and emails from nearly 1,400 patients who responded to a British TV program on antidepressants. The researchers found that 60 out of 9,219 people taking Paxil -- 0.65 percent -- experienced a "hostility event," compared to 20 out of 6,455 patients taking placebo, or 0.31 percent.

In that same article, published in September, 2006, I stated, "This finding helps explain why school shootings are almost always conducted by children who are taking antidepressants. We also know that SSRIs cause children to disconnect from reality. When you combine that with a propensity for violence, you create a dangerous recipe for school shootings and other adolescent violence."

Sadly, that explanation rings true once again with the Virginia Tech shooting. Wherever we see school violence, antidepressant drugs seem to found at the scene of the crime. The correlation is not coincidence. There is a causal link between the two.

The links between antidepressants and violence are well documented A study published in the Public Library of Science Medicine (an open source medical journal) explored these same links in detail.

(See:Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law, by David Healy, Andrew Herxheimer, David B. Menkes)

The authors note that "Some regulators, such as the Canadian regulators, have also referred to risks of treatment-induced activation leading to both self-harm and harm to others" and the "United States labels for all antidepressants as of August 2004 note that 'anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia (psychomotor restlessness), hypomania, and mania have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for major depressive disorder as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric.'"

In other words, the link between antidepressants and violence has been known for years by the very people manufacturing, marketing or prescribing the drugs. As the author of the study mentioned above concluded, "The new issues highlighted by these cases need urgent examination jointly by jurists and psychiatrists in all countries where antidepressants are widely used."

That was last year, well before this latest shooting. The warning signs were there, and they've been visible for a long time. Medical authorities can hardly say they are "shocked" by this violent behavior. After all, the same pattern of violence among antidepressant takers has been observed, documented and published in numerous previous cases.

[MS Bites]

i really believe antidepressants are extremely dangerous...... when i go off my zoloft accidentally, my mood becomes so unbelievably dark (not killer dark though)...... my dosage is low by most standards...........

<Deleted>

[kingrex]

i really believe antidepressants are extremely dangerous...... when i go off my zoloft accidentally, my mood becomes so unbelievably dark (not killer dark though)...... my dosage is low by most standards...........


But aren't you saying then that the anti-depressant is what keeps you feeling well? Why would that be dangerous or a "bad" thing? If you become depressed without the Zoloft, well, isn't that why it was prescribed in the first place?

The normal claim is that taking anti-depressants "may" cause suicidal thoughts in children. I'm not a kid, but I have taken Wellbutrin for several years and I've never found it to be suicide-inducing.



rex

[kingrex]

and we should not even mention the murderer's name or show his picture ......... DO NOT make IT (the monster) a celebrity...... why do we have a morbid fascination with these monsters?


I don't hate him...he was obviously mentally ill, which none of us would ever choose to be. Perhaps he just didn't get the help which, in retrospect, he obviously needed. My common sense tells me that there are far more people with untreated mental problems than there are those who recieve the necessary psyciatric care...which means that there are a lot of potential sociopaths walking around, <Deleted>





rex

[BBS1951]

This may be far more complex than the article states. For example, perhaps he had a psychosis, or schizophrenia, or bipolar illness-- perhaps he was prescribed Paxil and it was an inappropriate drug for his illness-- it is known that SSRI's can precipitate a manic state in people who have bipolar illness--so how do we know that isnt what happened witht he research and with this young man? We really can only speculate. What is clear, though, is that people are put on AD's lots of times without a careful consideration of their diagnosis, and without follow up therapy.

[MS Bites]

But aren't you saying then that the anti-depressant is what keeps you feeling well? Why would that be dangerous or a "bad" thing? If you become depressed without the Zoloft, well, isn't that why it was prescribed in the first place?

The normal claim is that taking anti-depressants "may" cause suicidal thoughts in children. I'm not a kid, but I have taken Wellbutrin for several years and I've never found it to be suicide-inducing.
=rex

Every person is different. Zoloft does not make me suicidal..... I am just saying that if I miss a dose, my mood darkens quickly (nowhere near that of the murderer). We, who take AD, must monitor ourselves. My doctor asks my wife if my AD are working. In most cases patients would say yes to the doctor... and I have answered yes.... but then doctor looks at wife and she says NOOOOOOOOOOO :eek: honestly my wife is a better judge of my moods than I am.

[Gary]

I cant imagine the feelings that the families of the slain folks are going through. Well maybe I can, many years ago when I worked in the funeral business the look of people arranging final rites for a person ( much less a young one) who passed as a result of some random tragedy was indescribable.

This in comparison to Great Aunt Ida's service. Not to trivialize the loss of ANY loved one, while sad, if Great Aunt Ida was 102 you have expect it.

As some one with 2 kids with a chronic illness that is potentially life threatening (type 1 diabetes) the following thought has occurred to me more than once," We are not supposed to out live our children."

I have no idea what motivated the gunman to do what he did at VT and I'm sure better minds than mine will debate this for years to come. I personally choose not to dwell on that and would rather focus my thoughts on the families left behind as I think, that for them there is no answer, and also for them this will truly never end.

[Moderator #6]

This is the last warning to keep all references to gun control and political statements out of this thread.

[BJF]

i did not write this on my first post, i don't want the thread closed because of the students on Monday upon their return. delete mine rather than close the thread.

this is personal and acutely painful...i shut down and went back on because i could not do a book on tape.

my father killed himself with a gun. no one knew he had it, i was not at home, only my mother and much younger sister. but still no one knew he had a gun.
but it is what he did before that is as important. he was a doctor at a big hospital, he called a psychiatrist at home, using his nickname, not his name. the wife later knew because of the nickname and what happened that it was my father who had called.
she told him he was gone to a convention.

and then it was over. so there was a last cry for help....

you never recover or stop remembering...even though the good does eventually come back.


to go back to the students. on the news monday, there they were hugging in the sun, balloons...a community. their best help will come from each other and from the huge team of counselors they appear to have brought in. it will go up and down, up and down, but one can only hope that the final path in this first week back will be up.


barbara