Ambien Withdrawal (...yet again)

[lauriannem]

Tonight will be my 3rd night w/o my trusty Ambien and I am not looking forward to it. Last night was awful - night sweats, terrifying dreams (when I was sleeping), tingling nerves, etc. Today I've been so out of sorts all day. I feel like exploding :eek:

I've been taking Ambien for 7 years now - and tried this trip before with no luck. I hope this will be the time. I have slowly lowered my dosage from 10mg-5mg-2.5mg and now 0.

Has anyone been through this before? It reminds me of my Paxil withdrawal, also no fun. Any hints?

Thanks!

[Virginia]

Lauriannem,

I know that if I was going to try I would do it very slowly, which sounds like you did. Do you think you stayed at each level long enough?

Cherie has weaned herself off this and she may be able to help you. If she sees your post I am sure she will respond.

When I mentioned wanting to get off one time to my Neurologist he just said to expect not to sleep for 3 weeks. I thought that was not very helpful because I could not go for 3 weeks without sleep. My schedule just does not allow that, at this time.

Maybe Cherie or someone else who has had experience with this will be along.

Good Luck with this, but be careful how you do it.

Virginia

[MS Mommy]

I just did it, too! I was not on it as long, but it was still ruling my nights. I avoided going to bed because I dreaded having to pop a pill, or risk being awake and totally stressed all night. Sound familiar?

I finally asked a therapist for help. She told me to get a BOOK (I was ready to kill her) called, "Say goodnight to insomnia". I have lent it to a friend so I can't tell you the author, but you can google it. The author is a Harvard doc who runs a sleep clinic in Boston.

IT WORKED. :eek: I have been sleeping like a baby for weeks now, without any drugs!

Please check it out. It was so empowering to learn how to manage my insomnia without drugs. I was SO skeptical when I started the program, but I am not too proud to say how wrong I was.

It is a 6 week program, but I started sleeping decently without drugs in less than 3 weeks. By the end I was, and still am, in total control of my nights.

Give it a try and let us know what you think.

Good luck!
MSM

[GardeningMSer]

Ambien withdrawal can be very tricky - I have direct knowledge of a 20 mg/night user who went cold turkey and required hospitalization, followed by weeks of rehab.

Having been a regular ambien user, I was glad to SLOWLY switch to Lunesta - it doesn't come with the early morning nightmares.

Take care,

G
still waiting for Spring

[Erin]

I took Ambien for about a month in 1996 after my favorite uncle died.

The first night I took it, I woke up probably a few hours after I took the pill full strength. My room had red light in it, and the tv was moving across the floor and pulsating. That scared the crap out of me!

The next night, I tried to not take any Ambien, but I couldnt sleep, so I took one of the tablets, and broke it in half, then broke the half in half and took that. It made me just sleepy enough to fall asleep, and I didnt end up with any weird hallucinations where the tv and computer were going to try to kill me.

I didnt have any problem with stopping it either. But, that was also around the time I started to slightly abuse Nyquil Liquidcaps as a sleep aid. So, maybe I did have a difficult time quitting using any type of a sleep aid.

[lauriannem]

I didn't really have any of the Ambien experiences that people talk about. I've just been on it for so long that I really want to quit. Also, I'm currently dealing with a new level of pain and might need to take painkillers - the combo isn't a good one, most painkillers say not to take with sleeping pills.

Last night I took a Tylenol PM and I think it helped. I feel like I don't want to do that again tonight, trade one habit for another. I had night sweats and a rapid heartbeat half the night but did get some sleep.

Sometimes I think I should just stay on a little dose each night....then I realize that I sound like an addict ;) My best friend suggested a shot of tequila each night before bed - anyone try that :)

Thanks for the support!

[Erin]

TylenolPM is just acetominophen (Tylenol) and diphenhydramine (Benadryl), neither one are habit forming, but I can tell you from personal experience that using Benadryl as a sleep aid will only work so long.

I went thru a period of about two years of serious insomnia. I went thru tons and tons of Nyquil Liquicaps, TylenolPM, Sominex, Unisom, (the last two are basically just Benadryl) and then I used just plain old Benadryl (cheaper than all the others) and I sometimes took an occasional Flexeril (muscle relaxer)

It wasnt until September 11th that I quit using cold medicines to sleep. All that Benadryl was really doing was making me sleep a few hours at night, and it wasnt a restful sleep, and I'd be jumpy and nervous the next day because of the poor quality sleep. I managed to quit the Nyquil/Benadryl habit in late 2001.

You might want to try retraining your body to go to sleep at a specific time every night and getting up at a specific time every day. Dont eat after 8pm at night, and dont take showers or a bath just before going to bed.

[Burgio]

This may sound dumb, but why do you feel you need to get off of Ambien. I have been taking about 5 mg. for about 18 mos and it really helps me fall asleep, although occcasionally I wake up 5-6 hours later.I don't seem to have any negative side effects What should I be watching out for?

[elizabeth]

Hiya Laurianne! This is a hard one, for sure.

I guess what I would tell you is pretty common sense-ical... Try to stay away from caffeine. Make sure that you are not going to bed "amped up" -- no exercise in the evening, no racy novels ;)

Try to go to bed TIRED. It only makes sense, but I found that when I was worrying too much about getting to sleep, I would go to bed too early. It made getting to sleep harder, and that was actually a stress.

Chamomile tea? Milk? Turkey sandwich? They all have sedative properties -- though you may not want the latter two for caloric reasons!

And yes, Benadryl can actually help. It's a little bit of a cheat, because you are replacing your sedative with another substance with sedating properties, but you can get 1/2 strength of whatever benadryl is chemically (BRAIN FOG STRIKES AGAIN!) as a sleep aid -- I can't recall what the brand name is, but it obviously has ocurred to a lot of people, hmmm?! :p

I replaced Ambien with a teddy bear named Oswald. Yes, for real. He's very squishy, cuddly, cute & fuzzy, and for whatever reason I sleep better with a teddy bear (at 45 years old, true confessions here) -- I think because when I prop my arm on him it keeps my shoulders in better line and I am more comfortable. Maybe a pillow would work just as well, but Pablo gave me Oswald when I was in hospital back in the really bad MS-time right after I left work, and when I quit Ambien, Oswald just seemed to work best! :rolleyes:

I hope you find something that helps... Once you have been off of it for a little while, you will scarcely believe that you wanted to use it. At least that's my experience, even though I am having insomnia now. I have NOT gone back to any sleep drugs -- I would rather work through the sleep issues than have to deal with the sleep drug issues, really. I hated the hangovers (which I had, notwithstanding all the ads promising I wouldn't) and the getting off of them WAY too much to try all that again. Oswald to the rescue?! :p

All my best to you. I am glad to "see" you again! :)

[Erin]

...And yes, Benadryl can actually help. It's a little bit of a cheat, because you are replacing your sedative with another substance with sedating properties, but you can get 1/2 strength of whatever benadryl is chemically (BRAIN FOG STRIKES AGAIN!) as a sleep aid -- I can't recall what the brand name is, but it obviously has ocurred to a lot of people, hmmm?! :p

I replaced Ambien with a teddy bear named Oswald. Yes, for real. He's very squishy, cuddly, cute & fuzzy, and for whatever reason I sleep better with a teddy bear (at 45 years old, true confessions here) -- I think because when I prop my arm on him it keeps my shoulders in better line and I am more comfortable. Maybe a pillow would work just as well, but Pablo gave me Oswald when I was in hospital back in the really bad MS-time right after I left work, and when I quit Ambien, Oswald just seemed to work best! :rolleyes:



The chemical name for Benadryl is Diphenhydramine. When I used to use Benadryl to get to sleep, I would break them in half. One Benadryl is (I think) 25mg. A usual dose of the sleep medicines that have diphenhydramine in them is 25mg of whatever drug is combined with it, with 25mg of diphenhydramine. When the benadryl was starting to not work for me anymore as a sleep aid, I think I was up to about 125mg a night. (bad bad me...used it so much that I built up a tolerance) I quit the Benadryl and had to retrain myself to sleep without special help.

I use a teddy bear too! (I'm going to be 38 in about a month) My bear's name is Blue...and yes, he's blue. I had a bear named Bear for awhile (what creative names I have for my teddy bears), but he didnt survive the Mouse Infestation of 1999. (my dad threw Bear out with my crochet patterns!! :eek: when he cleaned up an area where the nasty beasties had been)

The best sleep aid that I ever had was my dog TinyMonsters. He didnt sleep in the bed with me, but he slept in my room with me. Listening to him snore actually worked wonders for me. When he died in March 2006 I had some serious problems sleeping for about 6 months afterwards. Not only could I not sleep because I couldnt hear his snoring and breathing, but I kept having dreams that I could hear him crying. (the last night he was home, he woke me up with his "I need my human!" cry)

I managed to not have to take (much) assistance in sleeping after that. My back had been sore, so I was using Flexeril at nights that helped a lot tho.

You're right, when we go to sleep, we should try to be tired when we do...dont read or watch anything super exciting before you go to sleep...also, try to only use your bed as a place to sleep (or that other activity) That's the rule that I always break. I sit on my bed and crochet a lot.

Just thinking about sleeping right now is making me tired. (just took a Midrin to stop a migraine) I'm waiting for my boyfriend to call me tho...so I cant go to sleep yet. At least I'll be tired when I eventually do get to sleep...hopefully. I was tired the past couple of nights and still couldnt fall asleep till 4am.

[elizabeth]

Hi, Erin! I am relieved I am not the only one who has a teddy bear at this advanced age. ;) One never knows what to "put out there" but it really does help me sleep -- besides which they're pretty dang cute.

I actually took Oswald to the hospital the last time I was admitted. The nurses assumed that he was on loan from my son (then 10). I just never corrected them. I was somewhat afraid I might end up on the psych ward if I did having nearly been sent there once before with steroid psychosis. My neuro kept me on the med/surg floor in a private room somehow (I am still not sure exactly how), but I was actually a little worried at some level! :rolleyes:

I was sorry to read about your dog. Isn't is amazing how it can be TOO QUIET too sleep sometimes? I find I get used to certain noises and conditions and changes definitely affect my sleep. We have hit the windy season here, and the 30-40 mph gusty nights are REALLY hard right now. Every spring starts just like this -- gritty.

I have a Jack Russell Terrier named Ruby who is 6 years old now -- she is a world champion snorer. She is so loud it's absolutely obnoxious! She could wake someone on that old sleep horror drug, Halcion. She also manages, somehow, to take up an inordinate amount of space on the king-sized bed for an 18 pound animal. It does not seem possible, except in an expanding universe. :p Our other dog is a 100 pound Bernese Mountain Dog ("Bob") who is, somehow, smaller. He doesn't snore, either. Go figure? I have had to kick them both out at nighttime, because the hardest animal of all to sleep with is my husband -- with the CPAP for sleep apnea. YEESH!

I have finally arrived at the solution, which is to sleep with one ear plug in -- in my right ear (toward him). That way I do not hear the CPAP when it leaks air (much) but I can still hear enough noise to sleep and to wake when the alarm goes off. Now, if I could just figure out how to keep the covers from disappearing over to his side???

Sleep should not be so complicated, hmmmm?! :)

[Erin]

I loved listening to my dog sleeping. I even have video of him sleeping that I watch sometimes when I'm really missing him. The thing that he did at night that woke me up was when he'd get up and turn around.

His bed was between my bed and the wall, and he'd turn around and bang into the wall, and then bang into my bed...then into the wall again, and then into my bed again. Then he'd very noisily (noisely? noiseley?) lay down and do a big dog sigh (kinda like a "hrrrrumph!") and if I was really unlucky he'd do a big fart while rearranging himself and I'd have to ask him "what crawled up his <rear end> and died?" (sorry...Too Much Information?)

Tiny also had a way of waking me up. He used to come up to my bed, get a big mouthful of mattress and then he'd shake the bed. Tiny weighed 140 pounds at one point during his fat years, so getting woken up like that most mornings was a rude awakening. I miss it.

I'd love to get another dog like Tiny (a Bouvier des Flandres) but I just dont know if I have the energy for dealing with another dog like that. Plus I'm pretty sure I'm allergic to dogs now. I miss the total feel of security Tiny gave me. Most people are not willing to confront a 100 pound mass of snarling black fur. He was pretty intimidating when he was protecting me. I'm so glad that I obedience trained him.

As for snoring people...I havent had to deal with that much, but this weekend, I'm going to find out what it's like to sleep in a bed with another person...who snores. (last person I slept with in the same bed was my sister when we were little) My boyfriend and I are going on a trip to South Dakota. My first vacation since 2001! And it's the first time my boyfriend and I will be spending more than a day together. We've known each other almost exactly 3 years...and it's taken us this long to get to the joint vacations.

I know for a fact that he snores, because when we talk online on Skype, he falls asleep sometimes and it's hilarious to hear him "schnork!"...I'm sure I wont find it funny at 3am when he's laying next to me snoring his nose off tho.

I'm just seriously terrified that my occasional insomnia will hit and I'll be a very sleepy person for the entire week. I also have a serious fear that something MS-ish will decide to appear this week or next that will ruin the whole thing. But the cool thing is that this week I've felt better than I have in about 6 months, so hopefully that feeling sticks with me for awhile. (knock on wood..****b a rabbits foot...)

I'm so excited about this trip that I probably do have a bit of insomnia now, but at least lately I've been able to stay asleep most of the night.

I just dont know if I should bother to take Blue Bear with me on the trip. Boyfriend likes to tease me about Blue. I might stick Blue in my backpack, just in case I need him.

[Mariel]

I unfortunately cannot take any of the drugs mentioned on this thread, so I have to sleep without drug help. That sounds slightly arrogant, I know. I used to use drugs to sleep years ago, but then I found out I could never use them. What I use is Magnesium and B1 to stop myoclonus and Ginger Tea to reduce inflammation and sooth the innards. I must have all organic sheets and pillows or a itch and scratch. If I really can't sleep in spite of this, I get up and browse the computer or read.

I am addicted to Klonopin as you are addicted to Ambien. I have been on it l8 or l9 years, and was given it to get me off a worse drug, Meprobamate. I have cut down my Klonopin from .5 to 3/4 of .5 for nearly two months now. I know that lowering a Klonopin dose even to a fraction of what it was can take a year or more. It is horribly addicting. I plan to going down to .25 in about 4 months. I may not get any further than that in my lifetime. But every increment I go down is good. And yet I know this drug MAY be doing me some good neurologically, so I'm not too unhappy either way.

I think you are probably going down too fast on Ambien. You need to stretch it out. You say this sounds like an addict to do it this way. Well, you are addicted.
So you have to go off slowly. You will make it if you do it slowly. Even if you must permanently stop at half a full dose, this is major progress.

Bless your work on this hard task.

Mariel