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dyslimbic
03-04-2007, 04:55 PM
I am writing on behalf of my sister whose youngest daughter has Arnold Chiari.

The following is in my sister's words.

C's history is that at 3 and a half she was noted as having a mild scoliosis, which
we duly watched carefully.
As she grew this progressively got worse- every time she had a growth spurt it got
markedly more curved, to the point where we wanted her referred as she was now
leaning over to the left and began to have what looked like a hunched back on the
right (basically her spine was moving under her right shoulder blade). Her sleep
pattern began to regress around now with her having awful nightmares, frequent night
waking (say 5 times plus a night) and her general demeanour/character starting to
change from a sunny happy kid to a tired grumpy and very 'dark', moody kid.

Upon inital referral (Homerton then Royal London) they noted that she had a curve
of some 35 degrees (they usually do scoliosis surgery at 35-40 degrees when kids are
13/14- so this was extreme for a 6 yr old). At about this time C started to have a
lot of stumbles and falls- if you watched her walking you could see her right leg
dragging and she would also frequently trip over her own right foot and fall badly.

We were finally referred to the Royal National Othopaeodic (sp??) hospital and they
immediately noted that C had no feeling on her right side, i.e that the scoliosis
had a neurological root.

The first MRI's were done and Mr Casey (her surgeon to be) explained that these v
clearly showed she had Chiari as well as Syringomyelia- with a massive syrinx in her
spine (from about just above mid spine to skull, so it was long and wide in
cicumference) hence all the nerve damage on her right side and the severity of the
scoliosis as her body tried to accommodate the syrinx. The end result was that this
was serious enough to warrant surgery asap as the nerve damage may now rapidly
progress to the point that C may end up in a wheelchair -or worse.

The surgery was Foramen magnum decompression surgery with a trimming of the
cerebellar tonsils and her top vertebrae (C1& C2 I think they are called).

In the neary 2 years since her surgery the scoliosis has almost disappeared, but the
nerve damage remains on the right side. Her right leg does not drag as much (but
when she is tired/running you can see the difference) and she still has no feeling
on the right side. We hope this may improve as the syrinx goes but we were warned it
may not. On the last MRI we saw that the syrinx is indeed slowly but surely going.
Her last MRi was on your birthday so we see Mr Casey again in April to see what's
what. In normal cases peple don't get followed up for more than a year or two but
because her case was so severe they are keen to track her for a few more years-
which I'm happier with too.

Since then themain issue with C is that she easily tips into 'rage'- mostly I see
this as borne of major frustration, eg either wth her sister teasing/winidng her up, or
an inability to express what she is actually feeling. Her condition undoubtedly
causes her severe pain at times, another factor it's hard to get a handle on in
terms of behavioural impact.
She also does not listen/blanks certain things particulary if she finds them
unpalatable (eg being told off!) but thats fairly normal with most kids really. C
takes everything to heart though as well and her reactions can be extreme to even
the smallest things. Her self confidence is also very low (as teachers and others
have noted) which is a bit odd for someone who can be so extreme and adamant that
she is right!
Her sleep is still all over the place- the last 3 nights have been good but the
record got set at 9 wakings in the new year....

We struggle on but do find it very difficult to know what to do with her at times,
particulary when she is on one of her rages at the world.
She is certainly a bright child, and knows that she can be totally over the top, but
sometimes cannot accept the consequences of her actions or see the impact she has on
others. She can feel empathy for others (but often not until its all explained why
someone is so upset with her etc) and is certainly loving and cuddly.
She can also take instant dislikes and be quite hurtful to adults and children alike
- to the point of real rudeness- and we don't know where that comes from either!

Anyway, that's certainly a fair bit of background for you!!.
Essentially I think her condition is the primary cause of the behavioural changes we
have seen since she was around 6, but have no idea if we are stuck with this or if it may change/improve.



I would welcome some feedback on behalf of my sister.

Thanks Tim

pringlec
03-05-2007, 11:11 AM
Tim,

I have a 13 y/o son with Chiari who also suffered with "rage". Because he also has Tourette's w/ OCD we assumed that was were the rage came from. At first it was just verbal but eventually it became physical to the point where he had to be hospitalized for our safety as well as his. At that time he was diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and underwent a drastic change in medication. He is now home and doing great (no rage at all). The brain is such a complex organ and I personally feel there is a connection with Chiari and the other conditions my son has. I am not saying your sister's child is Bi-polar but she could have a chemical imbalance of some sort that could be causing the change in her behavior. Hope this helped.

LIZARD
03-05-2007, 03:24 PM
The brain is such a complex organ and I personally feel there is a connection with Chiari and the other conditions my son has. I am not saying your sister's child is Bi-polar but she could have a chemical imbalance of some sort that could be causing the change in her behavior. Hope this helped.

I have believed for years that Chiari can be blamed for a number of things. I have always had hydrocephalus, and my 12 1/2 yo son was dx'ed with autism at 2 1/2 and a 13 mm ACM I at 5 1/2. I have heard repeated refuting of the idea of a connection between the two, but after seeing many, many more kids with both, I must disagree. I just hope I find out during my lifetime.


LIZARD

dyslimbic
03-05-2007, 08:41 PM
Thanks for the replies. It may take some time to work out i guess how much is a result of the Arnold Chiari itself and how much is the Arnold Chiari bringing to the fore familial traits.
One positive thing is that my niece has been able to admit at school that she
can not handle things herself and knows she has problems.
Her school is so far being quite supportive.

There is no doubt that emotional instability/reactivity runs in my family(on my mother's side) whereas on my father's there is a history of
depression and bipolar like behaviour.
In terms of emotional instability my brother/mother/and i are more alike than we would perhaps care to admit.
My mother sought refuge in alcohol whereas my brother preferred to self medicate on cocaine and cannabis after an early flirtation also with alcohol.
I have avoided both though i will admit to seeking refuge to some degree
in comfort eating and seeing food as a means of trying to combat that feeling of emotional emptiness/hunger.
My sister though more together than the three of us has in the past
struggled with eating issues and more recently depression and the realisation that she has problems when it comes to alcohol.

The description of her behaviour was all too familiar
to me personally(though in the eye of the emotional storm i am prone
to denial of such)- easily tips into rage/'rages at the world',takes everything to heart,extreme reactions to small things, very low self confidence
juxtaposed with being extreme and adamant she is right,can be hurtful
to children and adults to the point of real rudeness(like this poster even though he might not always want to see it!) and yet also she
can be very loving.

Thankfully my sister and her husband are better equipped to cope as a parents than my mother and father were.There is also thank goodness a greater knowledge and acceptance that childhood and teenage mh problems can and do occur and more resources available.

--

pringlec
03-06-2007, 10:44 AM
Dyslimbic,

I am also very thankful that mh problems are recognized and treated in children now. I don't know what would have happened to my son if he had not received the help he got. He is such a good and loving person so seeing him in the state he was in was heart wrenching. I honestly believe he would have ended up in jail or maybe he would have attempted suicide. Both which go completely against his character and beliefs. I don't know what is going to happen as far as the Chiari Malformation. He is asymptomatic at this time and monitored yearly with MRI's. I have Chiari also and had decompression surgery in 2003 because of a very large syrnx. Hopefully he will stay asymptomatic and never have to go through what I went through. It is very frustrating to me that my son suffers with so much (Chiari, Bi-polar, Tourette's, OCD). Although he has help (therapy/medicines/support) I know he will still struggle throughout his life with these conditions so I am trying to stay positive and teach him to push forward and make the best of his life. It is good your neice has the family support she needs. Sounds like she has had a rough road, hopefully it will only get better for her. Your family is in my thoughts and prayers.

Lizard,

I too hope to see a connection found between Chiari and other mh conditions. Maybe if they find a connection they can find better treatment or better yet a cure.

LIZARD
03-06-2007, 11:12 AM
Lizard,

I too hope to see a connection found between Chiari and other mh conditions. Maybe if they find a connection they can find better treatment or better yet a cure.

Me, too. :( It kills me to think my son is going to struggle all his life with something that could be greatly helped by decompression. I'm scared of the risks, too, but the idea of him being severely limited because he didn't have it is every bit as frightening.


LIZARD :(

Rozia
03-06-2007, 12:05 PM
Sounds like you are in Uk . Because you dont use Dr. you use Mr.

dyslimbic
03-06-2007, 01:13 PM
Sounds like you are in Uk . Because you dont use Dr. you use Mr.


I live in Essex whereas my sister lives in London.

Cally Thomas
03-20-2007, 06:12 PM
Why cant you get the surgery done on your son now?
My son is 13 severly autistic with no speech and had his first MRI 4 months ago.He has been hitting the side of his head over the last year.Zack has been diagnosed with Chiari type 1.I am searching for information as our Nsgn says there is no connection and as his chiari only measures 7mm is not symptomatic.He has told us to forget about it as it wont cause Zack any problems.But how would he Know that Zack can't express his pain verbally and whats to say it wont get worse as he gets older.Wouldn't it be better to have the surgery now eleaviating current symptoms ie head hitting due to pain and preventing potential further problems in the
future

LIZARD
03-20-2007, 11:03 PM
Hey, Cally. :)

This is apparently a very widespread problem among those in the nsgs community. I think the problem is that they don't seem to appreciate just hoe common it appears to be to have both ACM and autism, and how much the kids who have both and have had decompression surgery have improved over time. From what I have heard, many take several months, but the results have been phenomenal in many cases. Now we just have to make them take us seriously.


LIZARD, not holding my breath...:(

trapperz
04-05-2007, 06:29 PM
hello. it has been quite a while since i was on this forum, in fact had to re-register.
anyway, i had a few thoughts with regard to your niece:
are there any 'sensory' issues, not liking light, bright light outside or in? noise found to be irritating? i have chiari, etc. and find that 'irritability' is my greatest problem. i find that i am much, much more snapish if it is a sunny day or a lot of sound around. also, i believe it has something to do with csf pressure. i have pulsatile tinnitus and when that is worse, i have more pressure in my head and am more grumpy. on another group i'm with, there's been a thread about a child that they've found to be grumpy who's mood lightens a while after recving acetaminophen. sometimes one has become so accustomed to the pain (or mild discomfort) that they don't even think about/notice it. that's one thought.
another is that maybe there's still a bit of a problem. there is quite a bit of talk in the chiari community stateside with regards to a connection that is being found between connective tissue problems such as Ehlers Danlos or Marfans syndrome and chiari. i mention this because scoliosis is very often associated with one of the syndromes. tethered cord or occult tight filum terminale is also found associated with this as is cervical instability. in the previous, the spinal cord is pulled tight by a full blown tethering or may not be so obvious with the filum terminale being a bit taught. the cervical instability i would guess would be fairly closely associated with the scoliosis. and can come with problems similar to or the same as chiari.
the problems i had before that have tamed quite well were to do mainly with muscle contraction/dystonia, but this responded to head/neck position as well as dampening the sensory input to the right side of my body.
sorry to ramble so, but i know that often the people here are searching for answers, desperate to find something to help themselves/their loved ones.
take care and good luck,
becky

trapperz
04-05-2007, 06:37 PM
[QUOTE=LIZARD;82730]Hey, Cally. :)

I think the problem is that they don't seem to appreciate just hoe common it appears to be to have both ACM and autism, and how much the kids who have both and have had decompression surgery have improved over time.

quote]

hey lizard. it's been ages. i slightly remember you from back when i was posting before. did your son have some problems with muscle movements maybe?

anyway, if there's any chance it would help, there was a post from dr bolognese at the chiari institute (on the chiari connection international yahoo group) recently stating that the autistic children that they've seen in their office who exhibited headache behavior have had an immense improvement post surgery, going from low function to high function. i tell you this on the slight chance that if you could quote a noteable source to you local doc(s), maybe they would soften their stance. (i want to say that there were comparable results found at columbia presb. hospital in new york as well?)
keep up the good fight and happy easter,
becky
i'm convinced there's more connection between chiari and autism than even the professionals who believe there is a connection.

LIZARD
04-06-2007, 10:11 AM
anyway, if there's any chance it would help, there was a post from dr bolognese at the chiari institute (on the chiari connection international yahoo group) recently stating that the autistic children that they've seen in their office who exhibited headache behavior have had an immense improvement post surgery, going from low function to high function. i tell you this on the slight chance that if you could quote a noteable source to you local doc(s), maybe they would soften their stance. (i want to say that there were comparable results found at columbia presb. hospital in new york as well?)


Yeah...I saw that. Drew hasn't shown any classic headache beh from what I can tell, but how does anyone know he hasn't dealt with it for so long that he's just used to it?? That doesn't seem to be getting much attention. I asked Dr. B when we saw him awhile ago, and he said his symptoms would be much like the shunt failure I described to him that I had way back at 13 yo, when death would have been welcome. :rolleyes: :eek: <sigh>

Drew is quite high-functioning. His communication is the only thing that's really lagging. He's verbal, but answering fairly simple questions is very difficult for him. His therapist, the school, and I are all hard at work on that now.


LIZARD :)