DEBATE - I'm raising a fat boy

[tgrimes]

Yes -
He doesn't like exercise much, I have to really work at getting him to go on walks with me, ride his bike, go out in the backyard and play, do things like play catch and throw, do things he has never done before... actually, it is hard to get him to do a lot of things. It always has been.

Oh, wait... I forgot cooking. Theo loves cooking. He is the only 9 year old I know who knows what an 'iron chef' is, and dreams of one day being a chef in one of those $10,000 food challenges. I don't watch that network, that is all his idea. I never see him so attentive to detail and timing as when he is cooking pasta. I once considered that a good thing.

Anyway, his love of food and his limited interests seem to have a way of putting on the pounds... last time I checked, he was over 196 pounds. He is only 9, and the doctor is very concerned.
Putting him on a reduction diet only initiates food obsessions, so now we work at the problem with activity increase only.

It's not working. At least, not MEASURABLY. He might weigh a lot more if we didn't make some effort... but I have no PROOF. How would I ever convince someone else of that? All they would see is a fat boy. One that I or my husband has grown, without any regard to physical health or characteristics.

Okay, for now I just better say I did stretch the truth on one thing.. some of this story is true and part is not, but I'd like to debate this as edited, here's the question:

Is this child abuse?
Why or why not, and what part(s) of the story in particular did you base your opinion on?

[milivica]

I don't know about the word 'abuse', it's not good for the child, but, how does one measure it? Parents smoke around their kids, some have asthma. Most parents drink around their kids...are they raising the odds they will be alcoholics? I don't drink or smoke around my kids (only cause I quit smoking after 16 years right before I got preggers with Vince and cause of my meds I can't even drink a beer) but I sure do cuss! We have a mixed race family, that could make it hard for my kids just like being fat could, socially I mean.

So, I wouldn't see a fat child and say "wow that's really great I'm sure they enjoy being fat" but I wouldn't see a fat child and think they are being abused. However, since I now know what it feels like to be fat after being skinny all my life, I now think it's unfair to the child to be fat when it is to the extent it is such a burden to the child, they want to (but cannot) do what other kids do in an average day of play, or to the extent it is hurting their health...unfair, but not abuse. I also think it's unfair to a really short child who loves basketball more than anything to be short, and surely think it's unfair to a child to be asd in too many ways to list. I'm overwhelmed enough trying to be a good parent, other than extreme exceptions (murder, kept in a cage, etc...) I don't judge other parents. Also if the child were extremely big, I'd wonder if he had thyroid or meds making him big, and if other kids teased him.

Ok, let me make sure I answered you:

>>>>Anyway, his love of food and his limited interests seem to have a way of putting on the pounds... last time I checked, he was over 196 pounds. He is only 9, and the doctor is very concerned.
Putting him on a reduction diet only initiates food obsessions, so now we work at the problem with activity increase only.

What exactly concerns the doctor? Blood pressure or potential for diabetes or something? How does your son feel about his size is what I most wondered.

>>>>It's not working. At least, not MEASURABLY. He might weigh a lot more if we didn't make some effort... but I have no PROOF. How would I ever convince someone else of that? All they would see is a fat boy. One that I or my husband has grown, without any regard to physical health or characteristics.

I don't know why you'd have to convince anyone of that, you parent your child as best you can, his size is a fraction of parenting, yes it matters, but so do many many other things. Plenty of skinny kids don't get half the care and nurturing and stability and love they deserve.

I saw that stuff about the boy that is fat overseas, I think being that big is not good for him, but I do not understand the logic of making a court case out of that and not cases of parents smoking around their kids with asthma considering that could kill them NOW, and situations like that which are even more risky to the child. Doesn't every neighborhood have the fat kid, the nose picker, the bad hair cut kid, the kid you never mess with, the smelly kid, the kid with a pee circle from peeing his pants every day, the kid that habitually lies, the 'cute' kid all the girls like.

I dunno if I answered your question Grimey. Yes, it's a form of abuse in the same way as is drinking and smoking and swearing around kids, and spousal fighting and hating. I think this was very prejudice based on what people 'see'...how many families feed their kids total junk food, or, only one or two foods cause the child won't eat anything else? But, since they're not fat, no court. Maintaining a child's weight is a part of maintaining your child's health, but your child's size is a mere fraction of the total package of parenting.

[mc4_a]

The problem is if he's eating a great deal there's probably little chance a little exercise is going to do much. This is especially true if it is low impact exercise.

Let's have an example:
He needs to eat around 2000 calories a day. Let's say he eats 2500 calories (not an unreasonable amount). He exercises once a day, walking 2 miles at a rate of say 3 mph. He's going to burn around 220 calories. The problem is he's still over his daily calories by 280 calories a day. At that rate he'll probably continue to gain weight at the rate of 2 pounds a month. Without exercise he would be gaining at a rate of around a pound every week.

Does exercise help? Yes. Is it enough? No. Would exercise make him more fit? Yes. Is it going to solve his obesity? No.

I've spent a lot of time working with bodybuilding and understanding how the body stores fat and the one thing everyone agrees on is, if there's a problem, it's your diet.

As awful as this sounds, you need to do more to control his diet. You need to pay close attention to how many calories he's eating everyday. First understand what he's eating and then attempt to lower it by 150 calories a week until you start to see a shift down on the scales. Everything you need to do should be subtle and slow. Don't drop him down 300 calories in a day and expect that his body is going to be ok with that. Cut out things like soda slowly and deliberately (and don't replace them with calorie dense things like juice). The trick is to find less calorically dense foods that he enjoys. Things like complex carbs (oats) and good fats (peanuts) take longer to digest and will help him feel less hungry in between meals.

His health is a stake here. Everything from Diabetes to the early onset of heath disease, just to name a few. If you think it's hard to control his diet now you do not want to deal with a diabetic kid.

[Laura P]

It's so tough to control diet, especially when the person has definite food preferences and sensory issues. I know that, particularly when Sierra was not eating a lot of things, and not eating much of anything (pre-Risperdal), it was very difficult to eat a varied diet--I had to fix a separate meal for her, and we were eating at fast food restaurants way more than was healthy.

Post-Risperdal, her appetite and repertoire of foods she eats have expanded (more like exploded), and she eats the same meals we do, so it has (1) made it a lot more fun to cook and eat together, and (2) eliminated the need to make separate meals. So, we can substitute lower-fat and lower-carb items, add higher ratio of vegetables, water, etc.

The demons here are (1) clearly, the child likes to eat, and eat a lot, (2) preferred foods are not likely to be the healthy stuff with a high ratio of bulk to calories, and (3) exercise is not a favorite activity. Simply, the very same reasons that the majority of Americans are now overweight to obese. So, the same principles are at work, and the same approaches to the problem should be as well:

--reduce the number of calories
--realign the mix to increase vegetables, whole-grains, fruit (things that stay in the stomach a longer time and stabilize blood glucose levels, hence making the person feel fuller longer), and reduce or eliminate highly processed foods
--increase expenditure of calories through exercise

Since he likes to cook, that is a plus. I'd start with substituting items where you can--there is a lot of information on the Internet on how to substitute applesauce for oil in baking, pureed vegetables for fats and cream in soup, etc. If this is a highly motivating activity, you can make it a reward: we'll cook dinner together 2 times a week (or whatever), and we will work together to identify healthy recipes. This is a really nice activity, and good for later independence!

The other thing I might suggest is to get together with a pediatric nutritionist or even a feeding specialist. Sometimes things like preferred textures or flavors can be used to modify the diet to something healthier. The therapist at the Neurobehavioral unit where we have been doing outpatient therapy with Sierra just transferred to a Feeding Disorder Unit, and she has related the enormous variety of therapies and conditions (I thought this was just for kids who couldn't swallow, but they also work with autistic kids with sensory eating issues, and with Prader-Willi disorder, etc.). Pretty cool stuff!

One example I wanted to relate: Sierra loves rice, so we started using brown rice and white rice, half and half, and within a week, had thrown out the white and were only using brown. It has really helped with her bowel issues too! Then, I started mixing in veggies, although she likes them on their own, to help her accept mixed items (started with small bits, then increased the size). This has been particularly successful with bell peppers, which for some reason, she wouldn't eat at all, under any circumstances. She still doesn't like them raw, but will eat them in fried rice, stir fry, salads (she LOVES spinach and baby greens salads), etc.

ANd last week, I made vegetable sushi, and she ate it! She loves the seaweed. Guess it's time to take her out for the real thing (her sister can already eat me under the table on sushi, and is very adventurous with stuff like octopus, eel, roe, etc.). I'm a neophyte--just the California roll, tekka maki (the cucumber), the egg, the cooked crab, and the cooked shrimp, and avocado. The raw fish kind of gives me the willies.

[AKF]

I agree that it's unhealthy for the child to be overweight, but I am overweight and not doing anything about it, either!! Just because you let a child develop unhealthy habits does not constitute child abuse.

Yes it would be better for the child to do something, and the parent should make the best possible effort, but we all know how hard that can be.

I think you are referring to the child in the news that was nearly taken from his parents??

I do not think it constitutes child abuse. What about parents who pressure their children to be perfectionists? Are they child abusers? What about parents who put their kids in beauty pagents? Parents who overdo the sports thing?

It's a very slippery slope. Once obesity is deemed child abuse, then what comes next???

[tgrimes]

Yes, since everyone here knows about it I am referring to that story...and the reason is, I am scared. I think I saw a story where this happened in the US for an overweight girl.
Everything in the above story is true EXCEPT for the weight, which is actually 150 pounds at last weighing. And the doctor said to increase activity, but didn't recommend a strict diet (yet).
I wanted to see what people felt about 196 lbs first, I figure we are less than 30% away from state custody, if the logic follows. Yes I know that is warped logic... but if other parents with obese children aren't scared, I wonder why not.
Going to post some photos later, want to show the huge weight disparity between he and his neurotypical brother, who is underweight for his height.

[frogmama]

oooh, good subject! I read about this case and wonderered what the "rest of the story" is, there has to be more than just a FAT kid, I see fat kids all day long. My son is 12, he's 4' 8" and weighs 156lbs - a definitely chubby kid. A few years ago, looking for help from his pediatrition I was told "just feed him what you want him to eat, eventually he will start eating it when he gets hungry enough." Wow, that was a fun week! We've seen a nutritionist, who knew nothing about autism and just went on and on about portion sizes. None of these people are in my house when my son is sitting by the back door (we keep most foods in the garage in a locked freezer & pantry, out of sight, out of mind...) sobbing his heart out and saying "pizza, pizza, pizza". Is depriving him of foods that he loves or foods that comfort him abuse? Where is the line? I suppose I could tie him to the treadmill like the dog whisperer.... I guess it's a touchy subject because of all the feelings we as adults have about being "fat".

I was once accused (by a neurologist I was seeing with the MDA Clinic :O) of being selfish and possibly abusive for simply having children, knowing that I might possibly pass on my disorder. Which I live with just fine, thank you very much! What about fat people, unattractive people or people with below average IQ's? Should all of us "unperfect" people quit having kids?

[Pamster]

Can anyone link me to the story? I don't want to post more until I have read it...

[milivica]

Yes, since everyone here knows about it I am referring to that story...and the reason is, I am scared. I think I saw a story where this happened in the US for an overweight girl.
Everything in the above story is true EXCEPT for the weight, which is actually 150 pounds at last weighing. And the doctor said to increase activity, but didn't recommend a strict diet (yet).
I wanted to see what people felt about 196 lbs first, I figure we are less than 30% away from state custody, if the logic follows. Yes I know that is warped logic... but if other parents with obese children aren't scared, I wonder why not.
Going to post some photos later, want to show the huge weight disparity between he and his neurotypical brother, who is underweight for his height.

I was honest with what I wrote, and hope I didn't say anything that was hurtful. Please please tell me if I did.

[milivica]

Can anyone link me to the story? I don't want to post more until I have read it...

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=e8b08dce-102a-4838-b602-e55498eb022e&k=7074
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=89776

I hadn't seen him till looking up these links...he sure doesn't look 200. I wonder how tall he is? Yes, he's big, but now that I've seen him I can't believe they considered taking him away from his mother and home, that's really terrible. They're probably using him as an example to strike fear into other parents there cause of them having such a high obesity rate. Hows about making McDonalds pay a 'fat fine' or schools that serve food other than whole and natural. Wow, what a thing to go through. There was a way better way to help him than threaten to take him away from his mom and his home, poor kid.

Edited to say: I just watched a video on one of the links...I thought (sarcastically) "gee, imagine that, a mother loving her child just the way he is".

So yes, I can see he is big, it seems it does impair his life if it's to the point he has trouble cleaning himself. But I'm just not comfortable still, with the way it was handled legally. There are too many bad results that could happen to good families that would devastate the child...like being taken away and feeling that every bite you take could get you taken away from your mom and home. Not good. Good way to become balemic and whatnot.

[Pamster]

I don't think it's right to take a child away from their family and call it abuse. It's just not fair to the family and the child. Most families I know love their kids and some just don't get enough exercise. I know my son was big and is big but he's not that big yet. I think we're reversing it by getting him outside to play ball with his father more now and eating less red meat and no potatoes. There is only so much you can do you know? I am glad his weight is stable now and he is NOT gaining anymore, that means we've stopped the gain and can get the reverse momentum going once we move and can take him to that park every day after school and maybe stop his snacking by replacing it with playing outside. This is heartbreaking to see that family possibly ripped asunder over a child's weight problem. :(

[peglem]

On the issue of is it child abuse... I'm am so tired of government interference and new laws for my safety and protection. When/where does the line get drawn? I had cops come into my home w/o permission yesterday, on the absolutely fabricated story that they had recieved a 911 call from the residence. My 15 yo answered the door and when she went to get me- they came in on their own. I'd rather not reveal their true purpose for coming to my home (had nothing to do w/ illegal substances or CPS), but if they had just been up front and truthful with me- their purpose would have been perfectly accomplished, with me still feeling like I could trust the police. As it stands now, if someone in my home did call 911 unbeknownst to me, the cops would not get their foot in the door. Its scary to me that they can simply fabricate a story and walk uninvited into my home, anytime they please! I feel violated and it was so unneccessary.

On the issue of helping an overweight child who is obsessed with cooking-

I wonder if it would help to add calorie counting to the cooking process? Challenge him/her to cook something that contains certain food groups and less than a certain amount of calories? How to change the recipe to reduce calories...that sort of thing. I think frequently with very obese people, its not just the diet and lack of exercise- I think metabolism or other problems, like a malfunction in the "I'm full" button could be at fault.

I married a fat man who did/does not eat excessively, and now has type 2 diabetes. While there is a correlation between obesity and type2 diabetes, I don't think it has been proven(although it is assumed) that obesity causes diabetes. Personally, it makes sense to me that the obesity is likely caused by the same malfunction that causes the diabetes. But obesity is blamed on being a lazy pig, instead of trying to find out what's going on.

[Isabelle]

my dear lord! i read that article about that lady with her obese boy. they need tons of support. that child is obsessed with food, more like a severe addiction. looking at that situation as 'abuse' is abuse itself.
now i have seen parents smoking in cars with children there, some on their laps, that's nuts! i said they don't know how lucky they are to have beautiful 'normal' kids and they are treated like garbage. i'd love to take their kids away....i have seen kids embarrassed at the obnoxious scandalous out of control alcoholics parents, i'd love to bring home those poor kids

[milivica]

like a malfunction in the "I'm full" button could be at fault.

Yes, exactly, that thing that sounds like hippopotamus (hippocampus??) in your brain.

[tgrimes]

Okay, here is a relevant photo - here we are feeding the kids full of gingerbread at christmastime - great. Hope it comes out the right size.
You can see how much difference there is between my two younger boys - Carter is less than 2 years younger than Theo. They pretty much have the same diet, but Carter is very lean and Theo very thick. That's my husband Bob with them.

[tgrimes]

... like a malfunction in the "I'm full" button could be at fault.



The WHAT button? I don't think I recieved one of those either :mad:

RE: Your cops - OMG that sounds like something right out of 'police state'.
That's scary.

[callyflower]

I like Peggy's suggestions of challenging your son to cook healthy, low fat/low cal/high fiber meals. My dd has similar obsessions--has watched Emeril, etc, since age 3, can take a bite of food and identify all the seasonings, etc. Loves to eat...and eat...and eat.

It began to be a real problem for us last summer, when all of a sudden, my hyperkinetic kid slowed way down, and the beginnings of puberty started to show. She's still within the "norm" for weight, but I've also had to resort to locking up all the "desirable carbs" in our pantry (under lock and key) and watching her like a hawk to keep her from gorging on refrigerated items as well. It is crazy---she acts possessed sometimes.

Just last week, I had her start studying packages and recipes to see what THEIR meaning of "a serving" is. In the mornings, she measures out her cereal with a measuring cup, etc. She LOVES it! You could get really into it with your son by buying a scale, etc and let him play "celebrity spa chef" or something like that.

I also think that the weight won't really budge without lots of physical activity. My dd likes to swim and is on the school's swim team. We also recently bought a 2 pound weighted exercise ball that she enjoys using and a new cool bike at Christmas has inspired her to be active that way as well. Most importantly, though, the parents have to set the example. I am right there with my dd in the kitchen, and I'm cheering her on at the pool (and joining her on weekend swims), and riding my bike with her as well. So far, all these things are working, the weight gain has stopped for now, and hopefully we are on the way to building healthy habits for life.

Good luck!

Cally

[Isabelle]

I had cops come into my home w/o permission yesterday, on the absolutely fabricated story that they had recieved a 911 call from the residenc.

that's scary! :( :eek: we had similar experience, worse scary i do not want to go into it.

[mc4_a]

Your child doesn't look that fat. He looks chubby. I wouldn't exactly be too concerned about the state taking him away. There are millions of children who are bigger. People will judge you but I think any parent with an Autistic child has already experienced that in spades.

Granted, you want to fix his diet because over time it could become a serious health issue.

[milivica]

OMG what a cute pic! That's incredible you all can enjoy making a gingerbread house all together, that's really awesome. I had to laugh imagining trying to do a gingerbread house with my kids...Carmen carefully decorating each detail and Vince yelling "TSUNAMIIIII" and crushing the house with his fists, then saying "I thought you'd like that?" in confusion as Carmen sobs.

You son isn't 'obese' or fat, but I understand what you're concerned about after that story in the UK, but that sure is a cute picture of your kids...including the 'third head' in the middle lol.

[Mother's Heart]

yeah Mili.....your picture sounds like mine! :)

We were given one of those gingerbread house kits ...looks like that one in her pic.

last year I thought I stored it safely away in a junk room behind beneath a bunch of stuff. I heard noises in the night and went to investigate...only to find the DS busily consuming the contents. (i'll never know how he got through the junk to get in there). The same people gave us one ths year (I guess they forgot they did that before).
I have it in what I HOPE is a safe place (I've been SLEEPING with it. I saw the photo and thought, we should get that out and do it tonight...followed immediately by Tsunammi dive type of thoughts. nyah...maybe next week. we'll see.

[Laura P]

:rolleyes: YEah, we had a gingerbread house too, and it lasted 2 days on the table unmolested, until Martini (our Great Dane) found it, then it was gone in about a minute.

[mcewen]

I heard that France is bringing in stricter rules on labeling 'junk' food with the calorie content because their obesity rates are increasing . [not that I'm saying your child is obese] But it seems to emphasis that this isn't [particularly] an autism issue, more a problem that the modern Western world if having difficulties with.
Best wishes

[milivica]

:rolleyes: YEah, we had a gingerbread house too, and it lasted 2 days on the table unmolested, until Martini (our Great Dane) found it, then it was gone in about a minute.
Will you post a pic of Marti....and the kids for a size reference.

Mother's Heart, yes if your picture sounds like mine, then that's just a small example of what I mean by weight being only a fraction of the total parenting package. I'd rather see Grimey's son as is with that Gingerbread house they'd all done together, than all of them with a stack of carrots next to them having shared no family enjoyment. Yet, like I said, after a story like the UK one I can understand her concern for future unfounded harassment and fear she could go through.

Grimey, that picture is awesome, really, it inspires me to try to do something with my kids as a family...but what would work...maybe home demolition? ;)

[Mother's Heart]

try to do something with my kids as a family...but what would work...maybe home demolition? ;)

:D :D :D :D
lol

thanks for the grin. I SO get it!

[tgrimes]

Mili - yeah, that's pretty much what the makers of those kits had in mind, I'm surprised that stuff was useable even as a dog biscuit.
Theo DOES have his limits, you know.

Now listen what happened this weekend - this is too funny to happen on the heels of this discussion: yesterday my older son was off on a band trip for state competitions and after the competition was over, they went back to 'setup' area and grilled lots of hamburgers... at which time someone challenged the kids to see who could eat the most hamburgers. The winner ate 12 hamburgers! Eeeech.

Nothing beats irony for putting worry into perspective.

[tgrimes]

I think we're making some progress!
This weekend Theo told me he would try to play tennis when we were passing the tennis court (a couple of blocks and an easement away.) So today we went to the thrift store to look for tennis rackets, and we found a couple, plus he bought a couple of golf clubs and there was a nice punching bag for $4. Not bad for a total of $14.
As soon as we got home I tied it to a tree, and he was punching away at it with his older brother for a good while, long enough to get winded.
After I picked my youngest from school, the three of them went to the tennis court to play. Theo came back crying because his brothers told him he didn't play very good and he should give up his raquet since there were only two :(
I promised to go with him tomorrow and not to worry because I'm not a great player either.
So anyway, we are doing something more, so that's good.

:)

[tgrimes]

On the issue of helping an overweight child who is obsessed with cooking-

I wonder if it would help to add calorie counting to the cooking process? Challenge him/her to cook something that contains certain food groups and less than a certain amount of calories? How to change the recipe to reduce calories...that sort of thing. I think frequently with very obese people, its not just the diet and lack of exercise- I think metabolism or other problems, like a malfunction in the "I'm full" button could be at fault.



I think that's the best idea, I'm going to start this. He knows quite a bit now about food groups and checking fat and calories, but I never challenge him with it. And he loves a food challenge, so he will participate. He could get a calorie count on every ingredient or side dish, and then figure out how many portions you have to divide it into to stay under a certain calorie count. Then we could see how much walking, jogging, or other exercise has to be done to burn the calories.
If we start doing that on a regular basis, then it might help us both to think twice before taking that second serving.
I really don't want to put him on a diet....I want him to put himself on a diet.:D
I think this will work.

[peglem]

I just saw a blurb on tv- Nancy Grace? Richard Simmons is trying to get physical fitness added to NCLB!

Here's the link:

http://richardsimmons.com/pages/writeyourcongressman.php

[LIZARD]

I just saw a blurb on tv- Nancy Grace? Richard Simmons is trying to get physical fitness added to NCLB!

Here's the link:

http://richardsimmons.com/pages/writeyourcongressman.php

The concern I have about this is the same one I have for NCLB in general: how we can ensure that every child can meet the standards. What if you have low muscle tone, coordination or balance problems, or some other medical issue that makes it more difficult--or even impossible? I was one of those kids, and I know it was a long time ago; we have many therapies available today that would have helped, but there are still many kids who would fall into this category.

Just something to think about...

LIZARD :)

[peglem]

Oh, I'm opposed to adding it to NCLB. Most states already have state standards for PE. Adding it to NCLB would only punish schools that don't meet the federal standards and the schools have limited control over what the child eats, how much they exercise, and medical problems that contribute to obesity.

[Pamster]

Oh, I'm opposed to adding it to NCLB. Most states already have state standards for PE. Adding it to NCLB would only punish schools that don't meet the federal standards and the schools have limited control over what the child eats, how much they exercise, and medical problems that contribute to obesity.

I definitely oppose it being added to the NCLB for the same reasons you do peglem. Well put.

[AKF]

Adding this to NCLB is the LAST thing we need!!! There's too much crap in there now!

I love the idea of getting him involved in the nutritional aspect of cooking.

And I also agree that the government needs to butt out of a whole bunch of areas that they're getting into now. We need less government, not more.

[tgrimes]

Oh, that is so weird about the NCLB thing, I heard just pieces of that interview. Why did Simmons make like there was no PE in schools? Is this true for some areas?
I would love to watch Richard Simmons try to get a kid like Theo to participate in group sports.
I think it would be like watching Nanny 911 on speed or something.

[peglem]

PE varies alot from state to state and district to district. In the school I used to teach, the kids officially had PE twice in a six day rotation, but there was no gymnasium and the teacher had @ 75-90 kids per session. It was really just babysitting (depending on the teacher, sometimes there were good ones) so the classroom teacher could get their prep time. I sure didn't envy the PE teacher being out in the Arizona sun all day. There are schools in this same metropolitan area with full gymnasiums, swimming pools and tennis courts! In the state where my sister teaches, for elementary school, the regular classroom teacher is responsible for teaching PE.

While I don't think Richard would be great at getting kids involved in team sports, my daughter sure loves his exercise videos!