Too smart for own good? Most docs feel threatened.

[Squirrel Fourteen]

Hi, all. Would you please coach me in how to get along with doctors, or how to find ones with whom I can get along?

I've been ill for many years. At some point, after I was getting too ill to do my job, I had a windfall, and figured there was no better way to use it than to study medicine. But I've done this on my own, informally.

I've done various odd jobs over the years.

I've seen a few levels of specialists. The higher up I go--for example to local and then national experts--the more kudos I get, the less threatened the docs seem to be. These have told me that my insights are very good.

But most docs I see just assume, or take the posture, that I'm a hypochondriac. This gets so frustrating that, in all these years, I've never demanded that I see a neurologist. Neurological tests seem to be so expensive that I could not afford what usually happens: I get flustered (anxiety is one of my issues), have to read from notes, feel like a phoney, and apparently look like one. Docs seem to think that I am a malinger. This is ironic, given that I've deliberately refrained from taking full advantage of my medical insurance and have never even applied for disability, preferring to carry my own share of the load.

What should I do?

Is there any kind of guide for patients who are too smart or too well informed?

Thanks,
Squirrel:confused:

[Tootsie]

I think that you need to tell the doctors that one of your problems is anxiety, and you feel more comfortable, and at ease, discussing your difficulties when you have your notes, to refer to. Continue to tell them, that you have done some reading on your own, and would like their opinions on some of the things you have read. Do they think that this *** is appropriate to pursue as a source of your symptoms?

I would suggest that you begin your search for a doctor by seeing a internal medicine specialist, first. An internist manages all problems related to the internal workings of your body and is skilled at knowing when a specialist in another field would be helpful. They have 3 additional years of training after medical school and are less likely to be threatened by your knowledge.

Sometimes general practitioners who have gone into practice after one year of internship are ill at ease with knowledgeable patients.

You could call any local hospital and ask for a list of board certified internists who practice at their hospital. Cheerio.

[Buttons2]

This is a bit confusing to me. You indicate you haven't taken full advantage of your health insurance, why is that? Any doctor could refer you to a neurologist if he/she thought it was indicated by your symptoms-right? As for the tests, after an exam by a neuro you would be scheduled for any testing felt to be needed.

You asked how to get along with doctor's or find a doctor you could get along with. #1, doctor's do not like to be questioned about their ability,they went to school for many years & feel they have knowledge to help you,if you interrupt them with constant questions-or interject with your (limited) knowledge,of course they aren't going to be receptive,put yourself in their place. They especially do NOT appreciate hearing anything you've discovered on the internet. You are the patient,they are the doctor. Sorry but that's just a fact.

#2 you asked how to find a doctor you can get along with. I'd begin by asking friends,family,co-worker's for names of doctor's they have had a positive experience with & go from there.

You have to keep in mind that doctor's are generally very busy, they see lots of patient's everyday & tend to be in a rush. A new doctor will spend at least an hour with you (such as an internist), they will order the usual bloodwork, check you out from head to toe,ask for a very thorough medical history, and depending on symptoms-refer you for more tests or specialists.

Taking notes is one thing, but if you are sitting there trying to write down everything said they will be offended & figure you are not LISTENING. I suggest you keep the note taking to a minimum,when you leave the exam room stop by the office & ask them to make a copy of the doc's notes when completed, also let them know you want copies of all your blood tests,etc. You will need to sign a paper for release of this info. After a week, call & ask if the results are all in & can they send to you or when would be convenient to pick them up. This lets everyone know you are proactive in your health. And you do have a right to all this info,they know that so don't make an issue of it unless they try to stonewall you.

I'm speaking from experience.

Try to keep a positive attitude. Keep to the facts. You have no reason to try to impress them with your knowledge, I doubt it will help you establish any good rapport! Think this over & see if you can relate to what I'm suggesting.

Most of us get anxious going to the doc, when sitting in the exam room waiting try to remember to take deep breaths & relax,take along a good book to read,be cheerful or at least pleasant. Doctor's dictate alot of stuff about a patient that might surprise you! Everything from general appearance to demeanor. You might get copies of past doctor's notes & see what kind of impression you have made with them....

Good luck,Buttons

[Gymnast_Navy_Wife]

Hi--
just wanted to say first of all, I am sorry you have all this going on and feel your doctors arent listening--been there, done that,

Secondly, I'd like to address what the previous poster-- Buttons, said about doctors and questioning their ability, knowledge and doing your own research, etc. I have a little different perspective on that one. Remember, first and foremost-- you are your own best advocate and it is your JOB to make sure physicians understand that. Yes, they have their training, BUT, because of their work load , etc they may not be able to research everything for every patient-- they human too; which is where your research comes into play. Its OK to explain your fears,let them in on what you have read, etc and then ask him/her if it might be a possible explanation, direction to go in, etc---non confrontational, but still giving them some ideas.

Personally, I can not live with out my notes-- and my physicians know that. Before the visit I make a list of questions and topics for discussion, one for me AND one for the doctor so that I can give it to him and we can both be on the same page--reading the notes and going over them, incase I forget a question--he has a copy to and can still help me remember it and keep me on track. As for writing down answers to my questions and tests to be done, things we've discussed, etc its a MUST for me--usually on the sheet I made before the visit with my questions, etc.. Even if it takes up more of the physicians time at the momement, it will take up less of his time in the future--- so I don't have keep calling the office about things I forget. Personally, I would explain this up front to your doctor so that he/she knows this and is aware of it, again not confrontational just, but giving a heads up. Recently, I've also begun to ask my doctor to help me with my notes--if its making a complicated med change, I'll ask him to write it down on the notes I take, etc. Just explian that you may misunderstand them and want to do things right. By doing this, yes, some may get annoyed, BUT, it also shows you are taking initiave in your care and really want to get better.

About the visit reports-- I do agree with Buttons in always getting a copy of them, I get a copy of ALL my visit reports. However, I do this for two reasons--the one Buttons mentioned about knowing what they are thinking and being reminded of anything you forget, but, also because with the notes you can address any misunderstandings, mistakes, etc the doctor may have put in them. Doctors are humans too and they can--and do occasionally make mistakes. Don't be confrontentational about it, but at your next visit if you have questions or feel there may be misunderstandings, you can easily get them cleared up. Its happend to me many times-- as my doctor usually does his notes during my visit and is trying to listen to me and type at the same time-- we just discuss it at my next visit. Always good to have your reports !

Buttons--please do not take what I said as me trying to offend you, that is not my intent--only giving my perspective on things :) .

To the original poster-- hang in there, take a deep breath and try not to get too frustrated....

Best Wishes-- GNW

[MandaPearce]

hey,
I'm in a similar position to you as I have lived with my conditions for many years and have limited training in Neuroscience so I can discuss my case from a personal and medical perspective.
However it does sound like you present your case as if you can't be wrong and you know more than them because of your 'medical' training rather than you know your case because you've lived with it.
This is what probably gets their back up.
Why do you 'deliberately refrain from taking full advantage of your medical insurance'?
I think part of the issue may be you're trying to have your cake and eat it - you want to tell doctors you're ill, you're suffering and you need help but also want to prove you're on the same level as them, you have the same knowledge and you can do everything on your own....
I don't know your medical history but why do you see these doctors and specialists? Is it because you're trying to find out whats wrong with you and get it sorted?
Then why not request tests?
Tell your doctor what your symptoms are - by all means write a diary of symptoms and hand them over, but don't just read from them.
Let him ask you questions, give him answers, listen to what he has to say then if you think he's wrong/hasn't thought of something you can ask him about it...
I have met a lot of doctors and yes many of them don't like me turning round and telling them I think they're wrong but I always make sure I listen to them first and weigh in my mind if I think they're right, if I don't then I'll ask about the issues which bother me and we'll have a discussion.
You need to balance your experience of your personal case with their training and experience with a wide range of cases and help each other.
I've now built up relationships with all my doctors and now the first question they ask when I go to them with a question is 'what do you think is wrong with you'. If I have an idea I'll explain it - what i think it is, why I think that - based on my symptoms, history, knowledge and we'll go from there.
If I don't know, thats what I say and I let them take the lead....

In my experience most doctors like expert patients as EPs don't tend to just go 'it hurts make me better' but are more contructive and able to explain themselves but unless you vehemently know that you are right and they are wrong, you should hear them out fully and not dismiss them out of hand. Build up a relationship, present your information as information not as fact and work together.
HTH
Hugs