B12 deficieny - help!

[theadventure]

Hey everyone.

I have had a bunch of symptoms of the past year which are now suspected to be b12 deficiency, I suggested to the doctor and he agreed that it was a very good idea to test based on my latest symptoms.

It started around september 05 with twitching, the doctor said was anxiety related. In october 05 I then started to get frequent urination and it would get worse and a bit better at times... my average voiding went from every 8 hours to every 2-4 hours. I then started to get these sinus problems in march 06 that I never had before. Muscle pains and general aches came soon after but were mild and no cause for concern.

During running a few weeks ago I felt that something wasnt quite right. I couldn't seem to run as well and would tire easily, I mean like in minutes! (i've played soccer for 12 years for at least 4 hours a day and had amazing fitness). My legs also felt kind of heavy for some reason... and i'm a light person! I have been ill with viruses around 3 times in the last 5 months. Including a dental infection that has persisted for 5 months even with antibiotics and root canal. Its now coming out very soon (finally!). Do I await blood results before going for extraction of the tooth?

I told the doctor that this wasn't me. First of all, infections? I hardly ever even catch a cold! In 5 years I must have been sick once with a cold... but something changed. My immunity has gone to crap.

Now the latest symptom is tingling and numbness in the feet (just over 1 week). Joint pains and legs feel a bit stiff. Skin is a tint orange but can't if its b12 deficiency because of my very high beta carotene intake! Last night I had pain in my lower spinal cord! I freaked out a bit and got really anxious. Ive noticed over the last year my anxiety has peaked. When symptoms first started I never had anxiety before. Yet thats what the doctor kept blaming it on.

I've also experienced palptiations and a bit of dizziness after running especially. Burning of the eyes, feeling tired after 12 hours sleep! taking so long to get to sleep also.

I should get my results sometime next week. I take a completel multivitamin with 1000% RDI of b12 and get 100% RDI from food everyday. My diet is extremely good. Consists of nuts, vegetables, fruits, lean protein, small amount of dairy, olive oil, fish, legumes etc...

If it does turn out to be a deficiency then it is certainly not caused by diet. I'm hoping its gluten intolerence or something easy to deal with. As I only eat very few grains, such as oats, wholemeal bread.

The symptoms have VERY slowly been getting worse. Hematology reports looked normal last time though. Might have something to do with my very high folate intake from food and supplements! The tingling is only minor right now... hopefully its reversible. No neurological changes as i'm getting around 80-100% in most of my course work and tests for science.

My ferritin levels look normal, albumin quite high so not sure about small intenstine issue. Possibly lack of IF? Although if you look at my potassium for some reason it decreased dramatically in spite of 6g+ intake of potassium per day.

Really would like to hear your thoughts

A summary of symptoms not in order of appearance

- Frequent urination
- Sinus problems (undiagnosed)
- Post nasal drip
- Fatigue - even with 12 hours sleep
- Heavy legs
- Palptiations (over 1 year!)
- Mild Pins and needles in my feet and very mild in hands (only one week so far) - worse after running
- Frequent viral infections
- Eyes burning
- Twitching hands, eyelid, lip and sometimes other parts of the body
- Lower back pain near the spine (only happened once and very short period (intense!))
- Occasional Loose stools but not severe - improved with antibiotics
- Increased sensitivity to noises
- Can't run for a few minutes without getting tired
- Intense stomach pain, like heart burn.
- Chest pain/shoulder pain on the right side
- Nocturia
- Irratable

[theadventure]

Also, I was diagnosed with IBS many years ago with no investigation at all... Later on a mostly vegetable diet helped dramatically but never totally made things normal. I have taken Flagyl TWICE and both times my stools have improved for a short while, they are more well formed and don't have any bits of food or white spots in there. A sign of SIBO? Over the last 1 year + it feels like symptoms are accumilating and i'm falling part, seriously! Doctors tend to laugh it off or offer no answer... At first you think maybe its just me, but then you know there is 'something going on' that is not quite right.

If tingling in the feet has only been present a very short time, about a 1 week, can this be an early symptom or late symptom of b12 deficiency? And will it likely be reversible?

I'm ordering 5mg methylcobalamin on monday anyway... I'm very confident that b12 is the problem. It makes sense!

I'd really like to read what you think.

[glenntaj]

--but it is quite possible you have some sort of B12 malabsorption; and I would strongly pursue the possbililty of celiac/gluten sensitivity. It does not appear, from that website, that you have any testing for either. (If true B12 deficiency is supected, a methyl acid test and homocysteine test would be more indicative than just a serum B12 level, although a low B12 level is a red flag.)

I am aware of the recent research as to calorie restriction protocols, but be very careful. Many people on these protocols do not have sufficient vitamin/mineral intake, and caloric restriction must be adjusted to activity level. (It sound as if yours has been pretty high, and you do not want to cross the tenuous boundary into eating disorder.)

[rose]

Matt,

Many people do not show increased MCV at all when B12 deficient. But you are showing increased MCV even though your ferritin has been reducing. These plus your symptoms scream B12 deficiency.

Even just the symptoms would be very suspect, but you appear to be moving toward megaloblastic anemia.

I am very glad you will take the much larger dose of B12, and I would also take a B complex. It sounds likely that you malabsorb B12 severely, and in that case the smaller doses (even thousands of percent, which is really not large) would not help at all.

I agree with Glenn that you should also explore gluten sensitivity.

Best wishes,

rose

[B12Bob]

A good gastroenterologist should be able to get you tested for SIBO. You drink something, then blow up a bag every 15 minutes for 3 hours. They test your breath for hydrogen.

SIBO can cause problems with both B12 and fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K). I have been taking Xifaxin for 10 days per month for the last 6 months and it is helping a lot. The only vitamin I have been able to get tested for, D, has gone from barely detectable to the normal range.

After taking B12 for 9 months I commented to my wife the other day that I don't feel old anymore.

[rose]

Great! :) Sounds like you have benefitted a lot.

rose

[theadventure]

glenntaj
--but it is quite possible you have some sort of B12 malabsorption; and I would strongly pursue the possbililty of celiac/gluten sensitivity. It does not appear, from that website, that you have any testing for either. (If true B12 deficiency is supected, a methyl acid test and homocysteine test would be more indicative than just a serum B12 level, although a low B12 level is a red flag.)

I am aware of the recent research as to calorie restriction protocols, but be very careful. Many people on these protocols do not have sufficient vitamin/mineral intake, and caloric restriction must be adjusted to activity level. (It sound as if yours has been pretty high, and you do not want to cross the tenuous boundary into eating disorder.)

Thank you for your reply. A few in my family have digestion problems, bloating and so on... but not diagnosed with anything in particular. One I know of was diagnosed with celiacs... but she is my grandmother and not sure the chances of my getting it too. I've already began a gluten free diet as a precaution. Since I eat mostly vegetables anyway, it really is no big deal at all.

Calorie Restriction is a protocol used to extend both mean and maximum lifespan in rodents (rodents living equivalent to 150-180 human years). The group I am part of are very cautious and maintain adequate nutrition via food first, then supplements. As my goal is to live a long time, an eating disorder is certainly not something I'd ever go into. 1) I love eating food. 2) I Enjoy life so much to give it up. Hence I do CR for life extension purpose.

Being possibly deficient in b12 is def not something I ever thought would happen. But it seems likely =/

ROSE:
Matt,

Many people do not show increased MCV at all when B12 deficient. But you are showing increased MCV even though your ferritin has been reducing. These plus your symptoms scream B12 deficiency.

Even just the symptoms would be very suspect, but you appear to be moving toward megaloblastic anemia.

I am very glad you will take the much larger dose of B12, and I would also take a B complex. It sounds likely that you malabsorb B12 severely, and in that case the smaller doses (even thousands of percent, which is really not large) would not help at all.

I agree with Glenn that you should also explore gluten sensitivity.

Best wishes,

rose

Haematology seems to be a bit different in CR subjects. Where higher MCV is present in the absence of B12 deficiency. Plus my 1000+ mcg of folic acid could possibly mask b12 deficiency I've read. But I do routine blood tests every 6 months so I try to keep out of trouble.

The supplement I take is listed below. Tell me what you think>

Essential mix

VITAMINS
Vitamin A
Retinol (Palmitate) ...................................... 150 mcg 500 IU 16.70%
Beta-carotene (natural (D. salina)) ..................... 6 mg 9990 IU 3330%
Vitamin B Complex
B1 (Thiamine) ............................................... 12 mg 1000%
B2 (Riboflavin) .............................................. 13 mg 1000%
B3 (Niacin (as 63 mg Inositol Hexanicotinate)) .... 50 mg 313%
B5 (d-Ca Pantothenate) ................................ 100 mg 2000%
B6 (Pyridoxine) .............................................. 17 mg 1000%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin) ................................... 24 mcg 1000%
Folic Acid .................................................. 800 mcg 400%
Biotin .................................................. ..... 300 mcg 1000%
Choline (from Bitartrate) ................................ 500 mg 36%
Inositol .................................................. .... 100 mg *
Vitamin C (as Magnesium Ascorbate) ................. 450 mg 500%
Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) .............................. 25 mcg 1000 IU 167%
Vitamin E Complex .......................................... 100 mg *
Tocopherols: .................................................. 90 mg
alpha-tocopherol ........................................... 15 mg 22 IU 186%
beta-tocopherol ........................................... 1.5 mg *
gamma-tocopherol ......................................... 52 mg *
delta-tocopherol ........................................... 22 mg *
Tocotrienols: .................................................. 10 mg
alpha-tocotrienol ............................................ 3 mg *
beta-tocotrienol ........................................... 0.1 mg *
gamma-tocotrienol .......................................... 6 mg *
delta-tocotrienol .......................................... 1.3 mg *
Phylloquinone ................................................ 80 mcg 67%

MINERALS
Boron (Citrate) .............................................. 1.8 mg *
Calcium (Citrate-Malate) ................................. 540 mg 54%
Chromium (Picolinate) ................................... 100 mcg *
Copper (Citrate) ............................................... 1 mg 111%
Iodine (Potassium Iodide) .............................. 150 mcg 100%
Magnesium (Aspartate, Oxide, Ascorbate) .......... 210 mg 50%
Manganese (Glycinate) ................................... 2.3 mg 100%
Molybdenum (Na Molybdate) ........................... 45 mcg 100%
Potassium (Chloride) ........................................ 99 mg *
Selenium (Se-Methylselenocysteine) ............... 200 mcg 364%
Silicon (Na Metasilicate) .................................. 50 mg *
Vanadium (Citrate) ........................................ 18 mcg *
Zinc (Citrate) ................................................ 11 mg 100%
__________________________________________________ _________________


Thanks

matt

[theadventure]

Will post up my next lab results soon as I get the report next week from the doctors. Once I start taking this sublingual b12. Should I be concerned about hypokalemia? And would around 6g potassium a day (from food) deal with it?

Some other symptoms that I forgot to mention

Ear sometimes feel like its on fire! (only started the other day)
hoarseness of voice
very mild soar throat

I can't believe I found this site... I've read through most of your stories and sad how they misdiagnosed some of you! I'm currently doing an access to Medicine course and I stumbled upon here beacuse I was doing a research project on nutritional deficiences. After looking ones I wanted to do the project on I chose B12 as one of them. My research project brought me here, and some of your experiences are shocking... Then thats when I thought how similar my symptoms were, and how they are progressing over time... This forum and your sharing of your experiences may have saved me a lot of trouble!

[theadventure]

My lips have started to burn and hands are really hurting! argh....

Question:

If my balance is fine, as In I can stand on 1 leg with eyes closed easily, does that indicate I would be in the early stages of deficiency or...?

[B12Bob]

Or that you are reading too much. :p

[theadventure]

Well I only started reading on this about a year after the symptoms started... so probably not that lol.

I've ignored something over the last few weeks or possibly months, my right arm seems to fall asleep for no apparent reason every now and then. Like an incredible weakness. My brain says move, but it doesn't respond as it should. I experienced it about half hour ago when I was trying to hold a cup. Its a very strange feeling, like a dead arm or something.

Anyway, sublingual B12 will be here tomorrow. Might take 10mg for a few days until I get my lab reports back this week.

One thing that high folic acid intake probably didn't mask in the neurological damage, PN, right?

[rose]

I'm in a hurry, but I wanted to say that folic acid doesn't mask the neurological symptoms; it masks the blood signs that would otherwise be present in many making diagnosis more likely.

Unfortunately, a significant percentage do not develop those signs even though not taking folic acid.

In fact, there has been speculation by researchers that those who do not show signs of anemia (large blood cells, etc.) are more susceptible to neurological damage.

rose